2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[King Postwhore]

Julian made the big catches in 2 Superbowls.  Wes did not.

[Cable]

doesn't this tie *directly* to what Black Floyd is saying? 21 other players? Re-listen to Belichick's drop in A Football Life- "play 60 minutes of...!" SB42 was not lost by Wes, nor 46. 78% catch in SB42, 87% in SB46 sounds right about in his career %. And Randy Moss could have jumped up in SB42, and what did Hernandez and 20% of Gonk do in 46? Branch? Great that JE made a huge catch last year, and caught a TD while concussed in SB49. Doesn't make him irreplaceable. 21 other primary players too, including a defense- which was garbage in 2011.

Plus, we're on to 2017. 😜

[King Postwhore]

I love Wes. Julian is slightly better and Yes! Onto 2017!!

[KevShmev]

I was never a big Welker fan, but he was better than Edelman.  Not just a little better, a lot better.  And far more durable, which meant a lot considering the punishment the slot guy in NE takes on those catches. 

[King Postwhore]

Not just N.E. slot recievers, all slot receivers.

[KevShmev]

Talk about a thankless job.  You take tons of punishment, have shorter careers, and get called marginal, run of the mill possession WRs by internet blowhards.

[King Postwhore]

4 to 6 million if your free at that job as well. Thankless for sure.

[Cable]

Agree Kev on durability, not that JE can do anything about it really. We'll see if TB12 snake oil works for the rest of JE's career. We all agree the job sucks, and is probably right above NT and DTs for respect-to-dirt job ratio. Maybe Guards and Centers too.

That being said, I agreed with Keyshawn last year about the "less skilled" WRs in NE not being as raw talented. What Key and every other "talented" diva WR doesn't do is work as hard as those NE WRs. And it shows, and Key confirmed every opinion I've ever had on diva WRs. TB and any great QB I imagine wants a receiver to be at point A when they throw. JE and WW I would trust to be there. Not Keyshawn.

[KevShmev]

Agreed.  Look at Randy Moss and then imagine if he had worked his ass off for his entire career instead of taking games off, or hell, seasons off.  He would have shredded Jerry Rice's numbers.  He was so freakishly talented that he put up numbers to where you could argue that he was the 2nd best WR ever and it still seems like he underachieved.

[King Postwhore]

Guys, how many receivers do we put in that category? It's rarified air.

[Cable]

What King, WRs that play hard often and have "raw talent?"

[King Postwhore]

You and I know th receivers that have come and gone that failed in N.E.  (Don't make me list them😂) Brady is the greatest AN (Kev, shut it! ) but you need talent to have Brady's trust.  Nevermind to the level of Julian. Let's penalize positions because you play with a great.

[Cable]

Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.

I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.

[PB1]

whatever happens, i have no doubt in my mind tht the patriots will cheat their way to another afc championship, maybe even a super bowl.

[King Postwhore]

whatever happens, i have no doubt in my mind tht the patriots will cheat their way to another afc championship, maybe even a super bowl.

I enjoy your tears.

[KevShmev]

Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.

I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.

The irony to all of this is that WR is probably one of the least important positions in the NFL now when it comes to winning.  QB, DE, OLT, C, LB, etc. are all more important.

[King Postwhore]

The one thing you guys are not thinking of is Brady has lasted because he's had that blanket to pass quick to when feeling pressure over his career.  (Brown, Weller, Endelman)

Now who is the slot guy who Brady trusts to break the right way when feeling pressure?

[Stadler]

The one thing you guys are not thinking of is Brady has lasted because he's had that blanket to pass quick to when feeling pressure over his career.  (Brown, Weller, Endelman)

Now who is the slot guy who Brady trusts to break the right way when feeling pressure?

Some guy named Biff that they got off waivers.

Fast forward to five years from now:  "So WHAT Biff has never had 100 receptions or 1,000 yards; he has three Super Bowl rings.  I'll take Biff over Brandon Marshall any day of the week!"

[TAC]

I'll take Weller.

[King Postwhore]

 . @Stadler.

They need to for sure. You can't have em and dollar in the slot the guy can't last a full season so they need somebody for the slot.

[black_biff_stadler]

@bosk

Change my name to biff_stadler when you get a chance. Thank you 

[bosk1]

Too confusing.  But I think I have an adequate compromise in mind.  Stand by...

[cramx3]

 

[King Postwhore]

Greatest Porn name ever.

[black_biff_stadler]

I know one admin for a past-their-prime prog band's forum who's getting a pair of Isotoner gloves for Christmas.

[bosk1]

If he doesn't want his, can I have them?

[black_biff_stadler]

Of course

[TheSilentHam]

I know one admin for a past-their-prime prog band's forum who's getting a pair of Isotoner gloves for Christmas.

Haken has a forum?  And you know the admin?

[Dublagent66]

Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.

I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.

The irony to all of this is that WR is probably one of the least important positions in the NFL now when it comes to winning.  QB, DE, OLT, C, LB, etc. are all more important.

True.  WR's aren't worth much if you don't have a good QB.  However, I would also throw RB's in the mix also.  QB's can struggle without a running game.

[King Postwhore]

I would say the receivers are more important in the Pats system then running back.  The short passing is like a running game.

[King Postwhore]

That being said, the QB is the most important postion by leaps and bounds. Second is cornerbacks.  Obviously with the league wanting a passing game.

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, good points King.  It is a QB driven league.

[KevShmev]

That being said, the QB is the most important postion by leaps and bounds. Second is cornerbacks.  Obviously with the league wanting a passing game.

Eh, I would say having a stud pass rushier/defensive end is more important than a great cornerback.  A stud pass rusher can disrupt an entire offense.

[King Postwhore]

I would put that 3 or 2b but it is very important.

[Cable]

I'm on the fence about the usefulness of a pass rusher, factoring in Watt's absence last year. HOU seemed to do better without him. Could just be their team and scheme though, where as they accommodate him or something.