Post your controversial music opinions v. I couldn't find the previous one

Started by Super Dude, September 13, 2016, 05:07:18 AM

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Zantera

I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.

It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.

But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.

Prog Snob

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 20, 2016, 06:42:50 AM
That's what I meant. What other form of bitches is there? :neverusethis:

I completely misread your post so I basically repeated what you already said. :lol

LudwigVan

Prog rock is an easy target.  It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion.  He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz.  Psych!!

Skeever

Quote from: Zantera on September 20, 2016, 07:38:00 AM
I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.

It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.

But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.

I agree with this assessment completely. The last wave of really good heavy hitters in prog (DT, PT, Opeth, Pain of Salvation, Devin Townsend, Transatlantic, BTBAM, the list goes on...) all seem to have peaked creatively between, say, '99-'04. After that we got a few new decent bands, such as The Dear Hunter, and we also got Djent which is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but mostly a dead end for the genre.  I don't really think we've seen what "the future" or prog looks like, but I do think it's fair to say that we're in an extended down period where the last gen of artists are still putting out some decent albums, but there's not really new that captivates the way those bands once did.

BlobVanDam

Quote from: LudwigVan on September 20, 2016, 08:36:26 AM
Prog rock is an easy target.  It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion.  He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz.  Psych!!


I think it's this attitude by prog fans that believe it's the equivalent of the kid that aces every single test that makes it such an easy target. Sorry. :lol

LudwigVan

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 20, 2016, 08:54:57 AM
Quote from: LudwigVan on September 20, 2016, 08:36:26 AM
Prog rock is an easy target.  It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion.  He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz.  Psych!!


I think it's this attitude by prog fans that believe it's the equivalent of the kid that aces every single test that makes it such an easy target. Sorry. :lol

:biggrin:  Well, if you're talking about prog from the standpoint of its fans, then probably yes.   I was thinking more in terms of the bands themselves and equating the players in prog bands to class whizzes. If you get 5 guys in a band who have gone to music conservatories like Juilliard/Berklee and gotten training in classical, jazz and whatnot, they will likely be able to play circles around 90% of the average-joe musicians out there, not to mention the punk rocker that just picked up his instrument a week ago.  So their musical aspirations might lead them to make the utmost use of their technical skill and formal training by creating something more than garage rock. 

Sir GuitarCozmo

They'll be able to play circles around everyone else, yes, but it's unlikely they'll ever be headlining in big arenas.

Adami

It also doesn't mean they'll do anything interesting or new. I think that was the point, a lot of these uber technical bands fall into the trap of sounding like every other uber technical band. Eventually (assuming you like it to begin with) it just gets boring.
[url="//www.fanticide.bandcamp.com"]www.fanticide.bandcamp.com[/url]

ThatOneGuy2112

The Astonishing is by far DT's weakest album since Black Clouds, and DT12 their best since as well.
Atom Heart Mother is a top 5 Pink Floyd album.
While I appreciate what they're doing, Death Grips are a bit of a one-note group and I don't really get the crazy amount of praise they keep getting.
I've said it before, but: Souvlaki > Loveless.
Illinois by Sufjan Steven is an incredibly front-loaded record, and loses its steam way too quickly.

My tastes are basic as hell though, so I'm not sure how many more of these I got.

Sacul

I think most of the interesting prog these days is happening in the underground of the genre, artists like David Maxim Micic, Leprous (I don't dig them tho), Bent Knee, Thank You Scientist, Obsidian Kingdom, Gazpacho, and even Anathema I'd argue, they all bring something new to the table, even if not completely revolutionary. Hell, even Bowie's Blackstar is more progressive than a big chunk of the genre from the last years.

Kotowboy

Controversial :

Out of ALL of Dream Theater's album - The Astonishing is DEFINITELY their most recent.

bosk1

Quote from: Kotowboy on September 20, 2016, 01:01:23 PM
Controversial :

Out of ALL of Dream Theater's album - The Astonishing is DEFINITELY their most recent.

Rule #12: Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc. 

Further posts like yours will not be tolerated.


bosk1

Sorry.  Someone hacked my account.  I think it was Ariich.  Or maybe Nick. 

Mosh

Quote from: Skeever on September 20, 2016, 05:58:28 AM
Prog ebbs and flows; opinions on it wax and wane.

It was big in the 70s, and bad throughout the 80s. It coalesced again in the 90s, and reached its peak in the 00s before tailspining hard again.

The 10's seem to be a period where prog is mostly considered "not cool", and while there are a couple of artists making interesting progressive music, there's no one out there really leading the genre to where it needs to go next. These days, it's more controversial to like prog.

It'll be back.
This is a much more interesting discussion than "lol prog sux". I think every genre has an ebb and flow. A more recent example is Hip Hop which was great in the late 80s/early 90s, declined a bit afterwards and is currently experiencing a renaissance not that much unlike Prog in the late 80s/early 90s.

As for the state of Prog, I mostly agree with your assessment although I would say the peak was sometime in the 90s and it's been a hard decline for quite some time since. Prog metal is starting to be accepted again but without the grandeur of stuff like Dream Theater. It's more direct and aggressive stuff with a technical edge. Almost more like early 90s Death Metal than prog.

Prog rock on the other hand still has some major issues to work out.

SoundscapeMN

Quote from: Zantera on September 20, 2016, 07:38:00 AM
I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.

It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.

But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.

I follow this to a point, but I also think there are enough artists combining progressive rock with other genres, to keep the genre interesting. Janelle Monae or Kimbra for example, or Fjokra especially still hold intrigue for what lies ahead.

I think if Fjokra ever starts to put out more studio work, as opposed to giving attention to other areas of interest like film, collaborations, etc, potentially he/the group could  be something new. Now, Fjokra may release an amazing album, or maybe 2 or 3, but the interest and attention that those albums receive may not go as far as they could. I think part of that is the fact Fjokra includes some hip-hop and almost combines too many genres for their own good. But it's not purely like something Mr.Bungle or Devin Townsend has done in that the music Fjokra's made still is melodic and has some traditional pop song structures. Much like Kimbra in that sense. But I just wonder if they'll receive enough of the right exposure to catch on more than a lot of the underground highly obscure artists, even among a lot of the progressive rock scene.


Zook

I was never impressed with the technicality of Prog bands. Suspyre started as a Progressive Power Metal band with great music and melodies. Then with their next album on onwards, they decided to get all jazzy and technical for the sake of technical, and they lost me. Bands that are basically the instrumental section of Outcry with words are boring as fuck. I'll take the derivative Circus Maximus Dream Theater clones all day over the melodyless "Math Metal" bands.


Super Dude

Oh shit, I didn't realize anyone actually responded to my post, sorry about that. In reply, basically what Zantera, Coz and Adami said.

I actually came to post another controversial opinion: Migrant is not only a severely underrated album, but before Act IV rolled around, there were some tracks on that first half that blew the Acts out of the water.

Also just to emphasize, Zantera is absolutely right: prog needs a Death Grips or Deafheaven.

Fluffy Lothario

Quote from: Super Dude on October 04, 2016, 04:57:43 AM
Also just to emphasize, Zantera is absolutely right: prog needs a Death Grips or Deafheaven.
It already had it. It's come and gone. It was called The Mars Volta.

I remember a lot of kids who wouldn't have touched prog with a barge pole who were like pigs in shit with TMV when they came out.

When Deloused in the Comatorium hit, NME (the magazine that were at the time celebrating the Strokes as the second coming of Christ) were all over it. They did a "Was prog really a steaming pile of crap like we always tell you to believe?" article and talked about prog albums you can listen to and keep your cool cred. Sure, it's a music mag, they were in all likelihood the shepherd following the sheep, but it was The Mars Volta that saw them do it.

Frances the Mute had the same effect. I remember reading of it having "rewritten the musical vocabulary we think with" or something to that effect. I played L'Via L'Viaquez to a bunch of friends when it came out and their jaws dropped. They were like (paraphrasing) "there is no way this is the same style as that stale academic shite you often listen to. These motherfuckers have had their punch spiked".

My brother was a dyed in the wool Nirvana-or-death grunge child growing up. He used to delight in the story that Kurt Cobain and Krist Novoselic once played a Yes record, laughed themselves silly, and smashed it to pieces. That little anecdote was The Gospel on Prog to him. (Never mind the fact that Cobain loved King Crimson, apparently). Even he was receptive of The Mars Volta. I recall him coming around once and I had DT or whatever on and him actually saying, "if we're gonna be listening to prog, can it at least be TMV?"

To a lot of people not of the prog crowd, those first two TMV albums were the genre's eureka moment. For a brief while, a slightly larger pool of people were willing to not treat it like a dirty word you would rather die than associate yourself with, which I think is as good as it's ever gonna get.

King Postwhore

When I read people saying a style of music is tiring to them and it's at a stand still many others will disagree.  Fans say this about bands directly.  What we never say is that our tastes change over time.  While we loved a certain style of music, another style or mixes of styles get us jacked about music. 

Our tastes evolve just like music and while some my not like a style anymore others are happy staying with the style.  It's all in that one listener.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Super Dude

I'm not saying you're not right about changing tastes - hell, I can't listen to metal anymore as a result - but there are plenty of external signs of prog's decline.

King Postwhore

You can say that about all music but I see bands still making a living.  I'm not sure it's declined. I think it's just a certain limit to getting fans.  I can point out so many prog mucus I love.  Yet, my taste in prog has changed multiple times over the years.


I just love music.  I'm happy to say that.  My wallet, not so much.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Zantera

Music tastes definitely change but as someone who listens to a lot of genres, it becomes clear pretty easily when certain genres are blooming and when others are falling behind. Sure it's subjective, but that's how I see it. There is some music I listened to when I was younger that I grew out of liking that much, but prog has always been one of the favorite genres, and I still enjoy certain albums, it just feels like there hasn't happened much since The Mars Volta shook up things.

It's not necessarily the old bands playing it safe and doing their same old thing, but there hasn't been those new and exciting bands that go outside the formula either.

King Postwhore

I think genres also change so the program you say is stale is evolving to something new.  I think that's a fact for all styles.  Bands that last for decades adapt yet still sound like the band you know. 

Like you said Jimmy, it's all subjective.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

splent

My controversial opinion: guns n roses is the most overrated band in the history of hard rock.


TAC

I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

splent

Quote from: TAC on October 04, 2016, 08:09:03 PM
I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.

Thank you.


TAC

You're quite welcome.

As iconic as Appetite is, The Illusion albums display genius and brilliance. What a f'n waste.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on April 22, 2023, 05:54:45 PMTAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Prog Snob

Quote from: splent on October 04, 2016, 08:15:51 PM
Quote from: TAC on October 04, 2016, 08:09:03 PM
I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.

Thank you.

They're definitely ONE of the most overrated bands.

Elite

Quote from: Sacul on September 20, 2016, 12:54:02 PM
I think most of the interesting prog these days is happening in the underground of the genre, artists like David Maxim Micic, Leprous (I don't dig them tho), Bent Knee, Thank You Scientist, Obsidian Kingdom, Gazpacho, and even Anathema I'd argue, they all bring something new to the table, even if not completely revolutionary. Hell, even Bowie's Blackstar is more progressive than a big chunk of the genre from the last years.

This is a post I can agree with, although I don't really think you can consider Leprous 'underground' anymore, after their EU and USA headline tours that draw hundreds of people each night. 'Underground' would be the Obsidian Kingdom / Shining / Intronaut gig I went to last week, that had less than 80 people in attendance.
Quote from: Lolzeez on November 18, 2013, 01:23:32 PMHey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Big Hath


Sir GuitarCozmo


BlobVanDam


Sir GuitarCozmo


BlobVanDam