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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Super Dude on September 13, 2016, 06:07:18 AM
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Alright y'all, you know the drill:
Faith No More's Album of the Year is not only an underrated album, but actually superior to the FNM fanboy holy grail, Angel Dust.
OK, go!
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Faith No More's Album of the Year is not only an underrated album, but actually superior to the FNM fanboy holy grail, Angel Dust.
I think I'd agree with this.
Just wanna get this off my chest. The Astonishing is DT's weakest album by a country mile.
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I think I'd agree with this.
Just wanna get this off my chest. The Astonishing is DT's weakest album by a country mile.
I'd also agree with this.
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I love Album Of The Year.
Ashes to Ashes ? What a song.
But The Astonishing is better than When Dream And Day Unite and Awake. :)
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Also i'd much rather listen to Metallica's Reload than And Justice For All.
( inb4 - Kotowboy this is controversial opinions - not retarded opinions lel lel lel )
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Blackfield I is the best album SW has made
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I don't see what the big deal is about Pink Floyd.
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Just wanna get this off my chest. The Astonishing is DT's weakest album by a country mile.
This. I'm sorry, I really tried and wanted to like this. I even went and saw them perform this live. But I just can't say I enjoy it.
Hopefully, their next album will be more my thing.
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I don't see what the big deal is about Faith No More.
Or The Doors.
Or, frankly, The Rolling Stones (minus a couple of songs).
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Alright y'all, you know the drill:
Faith No More's Album of the Year is not only an underrated album, but actually superior to the FNM fanboy holy grail, Angel Dust.
OK, go!
Actually my "holy grail" from Faith No More would be King For A Day, Fool For A Lifetime, then Angel Dust and then Album Of The Year
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Big AOTY fan here, but i still like Angel Dust a bit more.
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I think Loveless is one damn boring album. Animals too. And American Football, The Low End Theory, Dopethrone, Master of Puppets, Odelay, Lateralus.
And Leprous make me yawn.
Affinity might be Haken's weakest record.
Post-rock only has 3 original bands: GYBE!, Sigur Rōs, and Mogwai. The rest are lame clones of Explosions in the Sky, who are a derivative of Mogwai.
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I think the Foo Fighters are the most generic, dull and just plain bad bands of all times.
I think Muse started as a poor Radiohead rip-off, and now they are a incredibly awful Queen/Radiohead rip-off.
I think The Rolling Stones are way cooler than The Beatles.
I think One Hot Minute was the last good record by RHCP.
I hate Djent.
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I think the Foo Fighters are the most generic, dull and just plain bad bands of all times.
I think Muse started as a poor Radiohead rip-off, and now they are a incredibly awful Queen/Radiohead rip-off.
I think The Rolling Stones are way cooler than The Beatles.
I think One Hot Minute was the last good record by RHCP.
I hate Djent.
BRO-HAM! Other than the "Stones-Beatles" thing (and if I limit it to style and panache, we can include that too) I could have wrote every line on that post.
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Add a few more:
- Not overly impressed with what I've heard from Steven Wilson (not including his Crimson remixes)
- I prefer Phil over Peter as a singer
- Tom Petty is good, and writes catchy tunes, but not sure why he is considered such a legend
- I like Chinese Democracy
- Grace Under Pressure is one of my three least favorite Rush albums
- Images and Words is one of my ten favorite albums of all time
- I like Blackmore's Night
- I like Rainbow with Joe Lynn Turner as much (if not more) than I like Rainbow with Ronnie James Dio
- Even though Blackmore is my favorite musician of all time, I think Purple with Morse is just as good
- I think Graham Bonnet failed in Rainbow because he didn't have a third name
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Ozzy's solo stuff is better than Black Sabbath.
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- I like Rainbow with Joe Lynn Turner as much (if not more) than I like Rainbow with Ronnie James Dio
Fuck.
Yes.
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I think the Foo Fighters are the most generic, dull and just plain bad bands of all times.
I like Chinese Democracy
(https://media.giphy.com/media/D6WuLOKOpR2fK/giphy.gif)
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I don't see what the big deal is about Faith No More.
Or The Doors.
Or, frankly, The Rolling Stones (minus a couple of songs).
Same here, on all three of those. Although I thought The Real Thing had some really good songs, and I still pull that one off the shelf every now and then and enjoy it at ludicrous volume.
Stadler also as a few I agree with:
- Not overly impressed with what I've heard from Steven Wilson (not including his Crimson remixes)
Same here. I just don't like anything I have heard from him (I have not heard the Crimson remixes)
- I prefer Phil over Peter as a singer
Hmm...yeah, I tend to agree, and it isn't even close. But I guess I never thought I would see that opinion on a prog-related message board, so I am a bit surprised.
- Tom Petty is good, and writes catchy tunes, but not sure why he is considered such a legend
Yeah, absolutely. And so well-respected by other musicians, too. I don't really get it. I mean, like you said, he has some really good songs. I don't think I have ever heard anything from him that I disliked. But I don't really understand why his status is what it is.
- Images and Words is one of my ten favorite albums of all time
I had to think about this one. While I don't really have an "official" top ten, while trying to just kind of rattling off my ten or so all-time favorites, Images did not make the cut. 4 other DT albums did. But not Images. Maybe if I tried to do a top 20, but it might fall just outside that as well.
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Ozzy's solo stuff is better than Black Sabbath.
Both are hit and miss for me. I'm not even sure if I have any Ozzy in my collection, other than one of the greatest hits I got from someone who was unloading a bunch of CD's. But I guess if I had to start from scratch in building my CD collection and it came time to decide whether I wanted to include any Ozzy or Sabbath albums, with Ozzy, I would go with Blizzard, Diary, Speak, Bark at the Moon, and No More Tears. No desire to hear anything else. With Sabbath, the only complete album I would list as a "must-have" would be Heaven and Hell. I like that one more than any single Ozzy album, and might possibly like it equally with all of those Ozzy studio albums combined. Otherwise, for me, Sabbath is kind of a song-by-song kind of band, and if I had Ozzy's Speak of the Devil album, I would have pretty solid live versions of the vast majority of Sabbath songs that I would want. So I guess, having talked it out, I agree with your overall point, despite the fact that Ozzy is not an artist that has interested me at all in quite a long time.
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I think the Foo Fighters are the most generic, dull and just plain bad bands of all times.
I think Muse started as a poor Radiohead rip-off, and now they are a incredibly awful Queen/Radiohead rip-off.
I think The Rolling Stones are way cooler than The Beatles.
I think One Hot Minute was the last good record by RHCP.
I hate Djent.
I was with you until the Beatles.
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I don't see what the big deal is about Faith No More.
Or The Doors.
Or, frankly, The Rolling Stones (minus a couple of songs).
I cannot stand The Rolling Stones. Beatles all the way.
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I think One Hot Minute was the last good record by RHCP.
I hate Djent.
Agree
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in the court of the crimson king is overrated, it's decent at best by modern standards
and don't go "well it was amazing at the time" because i didn't hear it in 1969 :P
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Octavarium is Dream Theater's best album.
Awake is plodding and over rated.
Falling Into Infinity is a great album.
A Change Of Seasons is their worst "epic".
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I think the Foo Fighters are the most generic, dull and just plain bad bands of all times.
I think The Rolling Stones are way cooler than The Beatles.
Yup.
A couple of my own:
- Opeth were better before Steven Wilson started influencing and producing them
- Indie Rock/Emo is better right now than it has ever been (also one of the best genres right now)
- Green Day were never good (no, not even American Idiot, not even Dookie, not even whatever phase is supposed to be good)
- Radiohead are the most important band of the post-classic rock era
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
Pretty Fly For A White Guy ? Why Don't You Get A Job ?
Yeah No thanks.
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Some really good ones posted already.
- Radiohead are the most important band of the post-classic rock era
This reminded me of one:
I don't get Radiohead at all, nothing they have ever put out has interested me beyond a casual listen here or there.
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I don't get Radiohead at all, nothing they have ever put out has interested me beyond a casual listen here or there.
I loved The Bends so much. Ok Computer was ...ok...I liked it enough....Kid A was like WTF is this ?! But I still appreciated it...
Amnesiac onwards I was like ...fuck this i'm done.
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
I'll take neither. Controversial opinion?
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
I'll take neither. Controversial opinion?
Dunno.
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
I'll take neither. Controversial opinion?
No.
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
I'll take neither. Controversial opinion?
No.
k. But Green Day are better.
Beatles > Rolling Stones
Foo Fighters first 3 albums > Nirvana's first 3 albums. After that blehhhhh....
High Flying Birds > Oasis
Metallica > Megadeth
U2 > Coldplay
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
Pretty Fly For A White Guy ? Why Don't You Get A Job Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da ?
Yeah No thanks.
FTFY
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
Pretty Fly For A White Guy ? Why Don't You Get A Job ?
Yeah No thanks.
At least those songs were transparently jokes.
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They certainly were...
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I'm with Kotow on this one. Green Day is light years better than The Offspring. God that singer Dexter just can't sing.
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I'm with Kotow on this one. Green Day is light years better than The Offspring. God that singer Dexter just can't sing.
Right ? :lol
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- Radiohead are the most important band of the post-classic rock era
This is literally the most controversial opinion on this thread (for me). Assuming classic rock is "late '60's to late 80's", I can name five artists off the top of my head that supplant Radiohead here. I'm willing to give credit where credit is due even if I don't like a band, but I think this overstates Radiohead's importance.
Dr. Dre
Rage Against the Machine
Nirvana
Oasis
The Prodigy
Britney Spears (Yes, I did).
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People like to say Radiohead are important because they make dull experimental arty po faced music.
The same as when a dull indie band ( like Elbow ) make acoustic ballad songs with strings and choirs.
Music journos go gaga over it.
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Ozzy's solo stuff is better than Black Sabbath.
Both are hit and miss for me. I'm not even sure if I have any Ozzy in my collection, other than one of the greatest hits I got from someone who was unloading a bunch of CD's. But I guess if I had to start from scratch in building my CD collection and it came time to decide whether I wanted to include any Ozzy or Sabbath albums, with Ozzy, I would go with Blizzard, Diary, Speak, Bark at the Moon, and No More Tears. No desire to hear anything else. With Sabbath, the only complete album I would list as a "must-have" would be Heaven and Hell. I like that one more than any single Ozzy album, and might possibly like it equally with all of those Ozzy studio albums combined. Otherwise, for me, Sabbath is kind of a song-by-song kind of band, and if I had Ozzy's Speak of the Devil album, I would have pretty solid live versions of the vast majority of Sabbath songs that I would want. So I guess, having talked it out, I agree with your overall point, despite the fact that Ozzy is not an artist that has interested me at all in quite a long time.
The problem for me is this.
The Ozzy Sabbath was as consistent as hell. Yeah, Technical Ecstasy is not Paranoid, but there's a surprising degree of quality from album one to album eight. Heaven and Hell is probably the single best Sabbath record, but Mob Rules isn't. And as much as I love (and I do love) everything that comes after, it's not a stretch to admit that "Eternal Idol" isn't in the league of Sabotage or Heaven and Hell.
But Ozzy solo? Man. The two Rhoads albums are essential. The two Jake albums are good, but uneven, and from that point the shit hits the fan. I'm a huge Zakk fan, and his first two are very good (No More Tears may be the best overall Ozzy solo album), but after that, with the outside writers and the producers, and the revolving door on the guitar, it goes down pretty quickly, to the point that the last two are almost unlistenable to me. There is NOTHING in the Sabbath catalogue that is "unlistenable" to me.
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People like to say Radiohead are important because they make dull experimental arty po faced music.
The same as when a dull indie band ( like Elbow ) make acoustic ballad songs with strings and choirs.
Music journos go gaga over it.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/radiohead-2016-world-tour-tickets-going-3000-after-bands-roundhouse-shows-sell-out-1550308
Never knew there were so many music journalists :lol
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People like to say Radiohead are important because they make dull experimental arty po faced music.
The same as when a dull indie band ( like Elbow ) make acoustic ballad songs with strings and choirs.
Music journos go gaga over it.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/radiohead-2016-world-tour-tickets-going-3000-after-bands-roundhouse-shows-sell-out-1550308
Never knew there were so many music journalists :lol
It's not that they're not liked, I get that. But "important"? That's different. Of course it depends on the era, but I don't see Radiohead spawning an entire genre, like Dre or Nirvana did. I don't see Radiohead changing the industry, like Taylor Swift or Rage or U2 did. I don't see Radiohead inspiring kids to pick up guitars like Oasis and Kurt did.
I get from them a lot of mopey noise packaged as "art" and one album where you could "name your price!".
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Naming your price seems bold and adventurous til you realise that all 5 members of Radiohead are probably sorted for life financially already.
And a new band starting out could never be expected to give their album away free because they'd never pay back their advance.
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Anathema's best album is Alternative 4.
Ayreon's The Final Experiment is as good as Into the Electric Castle, or maybe even better.
I like Blackmore's Night (thank you Stadler for this one)
Judas Priest's Nostradamus is the second best album they've ever made.
Mark Knopfler's solo output is on par with Dire Straits, if not better.
David Gilmour's third solo album, On An Island, is better than anything Pink Floyd released except WYWH.
Beyond the Bridge's only album is better than anything by any progressive metal band, including Dream Theater, Haken, and all others except Ayreon.
Opeth ditching the harsh vocals was a right decision.
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I'll take Green Day's worst album over anything the Offspring did after Ixnay on the Hombre.
I'll take neither. Controversial opinion?
No.
Two terrible bands if you ask me.
I don't see what the big deal is about Pink Floyd.
(https://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_m26nwnRvVT1r78rf5o1_5003.gif)
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(https://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_m26nwnRvVT1r78rf5o1_5003.gif)
If it makes you feel any better, I won't listen to Yes or any DT after 6DOIT.
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But Coz! John Anderson used Aqua Net in the 80's! :lol
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Fall Out Boy is actually kinda awesome.
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David Gilmour's third solo album, On An Island, is better than anything Pink Floyd released except WYWH.
Beyond the Bridge's only album is better than anything by any progressive metal band, including Dream Theater, Haken, and all others except Ayreon.
Opeth ditching the harsh vocals was a right decision.
(https://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/The-Big-Lebowski-WTF-Expression-While-Checking-Things-Out.gif)
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(taking cover here :lol)I love:
- Iron Maiden with Blaze (X-Factor is awesome, virtual XI is not so good, but it has some excelent stuff in it nonetheless)
- Anthrax with John Bush (who is 10x the singer Belladonna will ever be). SOTWN is their best record.
- Judas Priest with Ripper (Jugulator is tied with Painkiller and Defenders of The Faith as their best for me. Demolition has more misses than hits, but itīs not so bad as people claim it to be).
- Metallicaīs Load and Reload (although i do agree they couldīve been better as one record with the best from each album).
- Skunkworks (my favorite solo album by Bruce, tied with CW, i think the record is amazing and the band had a lot of potential.)
- Megadeth: the run from Countdown To Extinction through Youthanasia until Cryptic Writings is my favorite, and i think Risk is not so bad as its reputation.
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Metallica's ReLoad is a better album than anything they've put out since.
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People like to say Radiohead are important because they make dull experimental arty po faced music.
The same as when a dull indie band ( like Elbow ) make acoustic ballad songs with strings and choirs.
Music journos go gaga over it.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/radiohead-2016-world-tour-tickets-going-3000-after-bands-roundhouse-shows-sell-out-1550308
Never knew there were so many music journalists :lol
It's not that they're not liked, I get that. But "important"? That's different. Of course it depends on the era, but I don't see Radiohead spawning an entire genre, like Dre or Nirvana did. I don't see Radiohead changing the industry, like Taylor Swift or Rage or U2 did. I don't see Radiohead inspiring kids to pick up guitars like Oasis and Kurt did.
I get from them a lot of mopey noise packaged as "art" and one album where you could "name your price!".
Yeah I'd say Radiohead are just as important as all those, if not more.
Also art is still art whether you understand it or not.
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Metallica's ReLoad is a better album than anything they've put out since.
Easily, IMO.
On Radiohead: I find it weird they are so popular considering what else is popular right now. I get Coldplay, they are catchy and poppy but Radiohead is just too artsy to be popular. Or I just don't get it. I heard their newest once and I think it's better than both Ok Computer and Kid A (listened to those more than once).
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Also : Art is art whether it's pretentious shit or not.
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- Anthrax with John Bush (who is 10x the singer Belladonna will ever be).
Pretty widely acknowledged, actually.
- Megadeth: the run from Countdown To Extinction through Youthanasia until Cryptic Writings is my favorite, and i think Risk is not so bad as its reputation.
I agree, except that I would add Rust In Peace to that run. And Risk is amazing. My 4th favorite from them outside of the previously-mentioned run of 3 albums (plus EP).
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Metallica's ReLoad is a better album than anything they've put out since.
That's not really saying much.
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Also : Art is art whether it's pretentious shit or not.
How a band like Radiohead who are so reserved and so humble about their own talent can be considered "pretentious" is beyond me. Sure, they occasionally do things that put them in the public eye, but so what?
If you were saving that comment for someone like Steven Wilson who's always finding creative new ways to frame his legacy while taking jabs at bands who doesn't share his vision (like calling The Flower Kings "the death of progressive music"), I could understand. But Radiohead, pretentious? Only if your definition of pretentious is "when people take their art seriously and I don't like".
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I meant art in general.
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Oh, gotcha :tup
Moving on then!
New opinion:
I started listening to more classic punk today, and after considering myself a prog guy for the longest time, I know have to admit that there's plenty of punk out there worth listening to.
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The Clash
The Ramones
Bad Religion
Some Rancid...
:tup
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Punk for me was certain songs I liked but full albums on whole is not my cup of tea.
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Fall Out Boy is actually kinda awesome.
I'll buy this one for a $1. My kid got into them and I have to say, I wanted so badly to hate them and I can't. Some of Pete Wentz's lyrics belong on a bubble gum wrapper, but the music is better than I expected, and while I don't care for the tone of Patrick Stump's voice all the time, the man CAN sing.
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In general, I can't really stand listening to punk.
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- Skunkworks (my favorite solo album by Bruce, tied with CW, i think the record is amazing and the band had a lot of potential.)
WORD! I love that album.
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Also art is still art whether you understand it or not.
I didn't say Radiohead wasn't art, and I didn't say I don't understand it. I get it (or at least I think I do). I just don't see what makes it revolutionary. It's not a case of "like or not", as I am readily capable of separating what I like personally with what has resonated culturally (rap, Bob Dylan, etc.). Bob Dylan is a legend, and yet I own literally one song of his entire catalogue.
I don't think Radiohead is humble, I think they're pretentious. I think they choose the different path for the sake of being different, and no other reason. Contrast with U2 who, love 'em or hate 'em, push the envelope every single time. AND connect with the people. I read Rolling Confirmation Bias Magazine regularly, and they happen to love Thom Yorke over there, so he's in there every other issue (every issue now that they are on tour) and basically every appearance is some form of metaphoric fellatio. No offense to our British friends here, but the epitome of "pretentious" to me is some Brit on tour in America for the first time in five years saying "I'm not playing THAT song because it's boring and obvious", which is exactly what Thom said about "Creep".
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::) Play the song which everyone loves and made us famous millionaires ? Fuck off.
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New opinion -
Despite loving Radiohead, Creep is a pretty boring song :biggrin:
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Haha. Yeah I prefer The Bends to Pablo Honey.
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Oh, gotcha :tup
Moving on then!
New opinion:
I started listening to more classic punk today, and after considering myself a prog guy for the longest time, I know have to admit that there's plenty of punk out there worth listening to.
Maybe it's time to fiiiiinally check out Cardiacs then?
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Oh, gotcha :tup
Moving on then!
New opinion:
I started listening to more classic punk today, and after considering myself a prog guy for the longest time, I know have to admit that there's plenty of punk out there worth listening to.
Do yourself a favor and check out some 80s hardcore punk: Black Flag, DYS, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, MDC, and Bad Religion for starters.
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Out of those I like Bad Religion the most.
Do Minor Threat sound like Fugazi ?
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- First one that comes to mind is that Steve Wilson was at his best when he was in Porcupine Tree. He wasn't in complete control (probably 95% in control :lol) but that was for the best. SW solo material is simply boring apart from a few good tunes.
- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as when dredg release Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy
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The Astonishing isn't St Anger levels of disappointment surely ?
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I wouldn't say The Astonishing was on par with Chuckles in terms of disappointment, because the self-titled Dream Theater album was so bad that there were no expectations left. At least Dredg put out a quality album before screwing us over.
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- First one that comes to mind is that Steve Wilson was at his best when he was in Porcupine Tree. He wasn't in complete control (probably 95% in control :lol) but that was for the best. SW solo material is simply boring apart from a few good tunes.
Defriended. :lol
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:( i don't get it.
The Astonishing was nicely produced. Had great songs and playing. It's not like St Anger where each song is 4 minutes stretched to 8 minutes with sloppy playing , singing and terrible production.
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- Radiohead are the most important band of the post-classic rock era
This should almost be common sense, tbh. Or at least to have them in the conversation.
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- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as when dredg release Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy
I would call your attention to rule #12:12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated. Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.
Just because this is a "controversial opinion" thread does not mean the rules go out the window. Watch how you post.
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tbh the "music" part of that rule is unsettlingly hivemind-y. and either you apply it to every band ever mentioned on site or you remove it completely, this being a dt forum doesn't automatically exclude them. Just my honest opinion.
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:( i don't get it.
The Astonishing was nicely produced. Had great songs and playing. It's not like St Anger where each song is 4 minutes stretched to 8 minutes with sloppy playing , singing and terrible production.
St. Anger wasn't terrible, it had like 3 pretty good songs on it.
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:( i don't get it.
The Astonishing was nicely produced. Had great songs and playing. It's not like St Anger where each song is 4 minutes stretched to 8 minutes with sloppy playing , singing and terrible production.
Hm, lot of things I could say in response to this, but I don't want to break the rules.
But overall I agree. The Astonishing was hardly a disappointment. I didn't like it, but it was better than I expected it to be after the unearthed the concept.
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No I enjoy St. Anger in small doses.
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I wouldn't say The Astonishing was on par with Chuckles in terms of disappointment, because the self-titled Dream Theater album was so bad that there were no expectations left. At least Dredg put out a quality album before screwing us over.
I didn't think the self-titled was that bad. I think I liked it more than ADTOE.
As far as the dredg comment, I think I may have to take some of that back. Chuckles had some good tracks on there that I listen to from time to time. I think coming off 3 amazing albums the expectations were a little high on my end.
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Ok here we go :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > The Astonishing > DT12
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The self-titled is the epitome of an auto-pilot album to me. I'd rather have something like The Astonishing where they're at least trying to do something big (even if admittedly I severely dislike the result).
Ok here we go :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > The Astonishing > DT12
Yep. I still really like A Dramatic Turn of Events.
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- First one that comes to mind is that Steve Wilson was at his best when he was in Porcupine Tree. He wasn't in complete control (probably 95% in control :lol) but that was for the best. SW solo material is simply boring apart from a few good tunes.
- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as when dredg release Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy
I see nothing wrong with any of this. Carry on.
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As far as the dredg comment, I think I may have to take some of that back. Chuckles had some good tracks on there that I listen to from time to time. I think coming off 3 amazing albums the expectations were a little high on my end.
I think the impact of Chuckles was amplified because they haven't put out anything since then...had it been the one-off experiment, and then hey continued on as before, I would feel differently about it.
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in the court of the crimson king is overrated, it's decent at best by modern standards
and don't go "well it was amazing at the time" because i didn't hear it in 1969 :P
I think it's still awesome today and has a very strong songwriting :P
Also listen to the SW remix, it's marvellous.
On Radiohead not playing Creep, I think they must be really tired of that song these days :lol
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As far as the dredg comment, I think I may have to take some of that back. Chuckles had some good tracks on there that I listen to from time to time. I think coming off 3 amazing albums the expectations were a little high on my end.
I think the impact of Chuckles was amplified because they haven't put out anything since then...had it been the one-off experiment, and then hey continued on as before, I would feel differently about it.
I still take a peak over at the traversing board every once in a while and there are some talk of some new material (maybe). All the guys have regular day jobs aside from Mark who is doing the Black Map thing right now.
I kind of view Chuckles the same, it was an experiment with Dan and one that didn't really click for me.
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- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as when dredg release Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy
I would call your attention to rule #12:12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated. Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.
Just because this is a "controversial opinion" thread does not mean the rules go out the window. Watch how you post.
What's the difference in saying "The Astonishing is DT's worse album by far." and "The Astonishing is terrible."? The word "terrible" is not an insult or senseless bashing, but an opinion and in no way belittling. Well, that's how I see it.
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- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as The Great Misdirect or The Whirlwind
fixed.
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i didn't know dredg released those albums
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- First one that comes to mind is that Steve Wilson was at his best when he was in Porcupine Tree. He wasn't in complete control (probably 95% in control :lol) but that was for the best. SW solo material is simply boring apart from a few good tunes.
- The Astonishing is terrible, it's on the same level of disappointment as when dredg release Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy
Agreed, PT was great, but solo stuff isn't anywhere near the same quality.
I think he is vastly overrated at everything, singing is average, guitar playing okay, mixing and producing nothing special.
I am not saying he isn't talented, he is, but when he is referred to as a 'genius' I disagree strongly.
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Anathema's best album is Alternative 4.
Yup.
Also, Peter Gabriel's solo career >>>>>>>>>>> Genesis
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DT12 - best DT album since 6DOIT
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The Big 4 of Thrash metal should be in this order quality wise:
Anthrax
Megadeth
Slayer
Metallica
And John Bush is better than Belladonna, although Belladonna has improved mightily on Worship Music and For All Kings, but Sounds Of White Noise is still not a good Anthrax record. The best Bush fronted Anthrax is Stomp 442 followed by We've Come For You All.
Skunkworks is amazing because it has great songs and is really different from what Dickinson has done before and after.
Devin Townsend has never again reached the quality of Ocean Machine and his output since Synchestra is very hit and miss.
Lars Ulrich may be an influential drummer but he never was a good one. Even when he's playing tight.
Queensryche's Q2K is better than Hear In The Now Frontier, better than the Tateryche records after that and on par (or sometimes even better) than Promised Land.
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DT12 - almost worse than WDADU
FTFM
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Skunkworks is amazing because it has great songs and is really different from what Dickinson has done before and after.
Agreed! but all Bruce's "unusual" albums are great, even that half-joke of Tattoed Millionaire has at least 3-4 brilliant songs, and the best by far is Son of a Gun.
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Ok here we go :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > The Astonishing > DT12
This I agree with. Though, sometimes I prefer TA over ADTOE.
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Ok here we go :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > The Astonishing > DT12
This I agree with. Though, sometimes I prefer TA over ADTOE.
I think Astonishing has better highs but since ADTOE is shorter - it's more consistent.
If ADTOE had The Astonishing's production = Top 3 album.
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Ok here it comes, the most controversial of all opinions
The Astonishing > WDADU
It's that good :neverusethis:
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Ok here we go :
A Dramatic Turn Of Events > The Astonishing > DT12
This I agree with. Though, sometimes I prefer TA over ADTOE.
I think Astonishing has better highs but since ADTOE is shorter - it's more consistent.
If ADTOE had The Astonishing's production = Top 3 album.
I don't feel the production is so bad that it ruins the album for me.
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It doesn't but the drums are a bit low and it's a bit muffled overall.
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Ok here it comes, the most controversial of all opinions
The Astonishing > WDADU
It's that good :neverusethis:
< Obligatory " Now Wait A Minute Man " >
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Sometimes I feel like WDADU > FII
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Sometimes I feel like WDADU > FII
:( Now wait a minute man...
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Ytsejam, Only A Matter of Time, Afterlife, The Killing Hand. The only songs on FII that are definitely better than those are Trial of Tears and Lines in the Sand.
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Hell's Kitchen ?
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I think Dead Can Dance's last record is their best by far. Wished they released another one.
In Rainbows is very dull imo. And Kid A would be better without the filler ambient tracks.
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Hell's Kitchen ?
Not as good as Ytsejam, IMO.
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Weezer's much-maligned Green Album is actually one of my favorites by them. It's not better than Pinkerton, but makes top 3 easily.
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Fans of Green Day saying another band's singer can't sing. El Oh El
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Couple more:
- I think Slayer are a joke, cartoon, and while I don't think I would say it to his face, Kerry King makes me laugh more often than not.
- I think The Cars are one of the greatest bands ever and belong in the RnRHoF
- I would sell my house to hear an album with Robert Fripp and Mike Portnoy
- I think "Under The Blade" is one of the greatest metal debut albums of all time
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Sometimes I feel like WDADU > FII
I agree with that. I like Hell's Kitchen and Peruvian Skies more than any song on WDADU, but other than that, I find most of the songs on FII much less interesting than the ones on WDADU.
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- I think Slayer are a joke, cartoon, and while I don't think I would say it to his face, Kerry King makes me laugh more often than not.
I agree wholeheartedly with this one.
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Lazarus Bird from Burst >>>>> Every Mastodon album
Like Children > Every Mahavishnu Orchestra album
Marscape > Every Brand X album
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- No Code is Pearl Jams worst album.
- The Police are one of the worst (non manufactured) bands ever, with their awful half baked white cod reggae and repetitive lyrics - and both Sting and Copeland are grade A arseholes.
- Street Legal is a vastly underrated Dylan album and Changing Of The Guard is one of his top 3 songs.
- A-Ha are one of the greatest pop acts ever.
- Dance of Death is the best post reunion Maiden album.
- As people have mentioned them so much....Sol Invictus was an awful comeback album.
- I don't really get what's so great about Bowie's 'Berlin Trilogy'. Station to Station is better than them all.
- The Kinks > The Who > The Beatles >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Stones.
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Heroes is a great song, but the album is just ok.
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I think Dead Can Dance's last record is their best by far. Wished they released another one.
In Rainbows is very dull imo. And Kid A would be better without the filler ambient tracks.
treefingers is the best song on Kid A
hi
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Sometimes I feel like WDADU > FII
I always feel that way. I also prefer WDaDU over SC.
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treefingers is the best song on Kid A
hi
A few minutes of ambient sound is not a song.
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- No Code is Pearl Jams worst album.
- The Police are one of the worst (non manufactured) bands ever, with their awful half baked white cod reggae and repetitive lyrics - and both Sting and Copeland are grade A arseholes.
- The Kinks > The Who > The Beatles >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Stones.
I love No Code and Vitalogy is my favourite. I lost interest from Binaural onwards.
I agree they're not an album band with all their best known songs being their best songs full stop. Albums were full of dreck.
Whilst i'm not a fan of The Kinks - I will agree that The Stones are easily the worst of that bunch.
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treefingers is the best song on Kid A
hi
A few minutes of ambient sound is not a song.
L O L this actually pisses me off. it's absolutely a song.
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By the same token - a recording of someone walking around for 3 minutes is also a "song".
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This is like the people that say metal is just noise
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you're like, fully aware than ambient and drone are legitimate genres right
also, field recordings? also a thing?
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Totally. For sure. Gag me with a spoon. :lol
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Dunno if field recordings can be considered songs tbh, though it certainly seems to be a niche genre. Probably for experimental/archival purposes mostly.
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The 90's were a terrible decade for music.
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The 80's were a terrible decade for music.
FTFM.
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I was just listening to Jeff Buckley's Grace while getting some lunch and his cover of Hallelujah is a blemish on an otherwise perfect album.
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- Dance of Death is the best post reunion Maiden album.
I'm with you! :metal
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The 90's were a terrible decade for music.
Off topic. It can't be "controversial" if it is undisputed.
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lol, thank you
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I agree with Kotow (I know, it also scares me how much I've been agreeing with Kotow lately) on what does and does not constitute a song. But I don't really want to get into this debate again because it never goes anywhere good.
I'll only share three big controversial opinions right now and then I'll maybe post more later.
- Heritage is my favorite Opeth album.
- My favorite era of Metallica's career is 1996-1999.
- I like The Incident better than Hand. Cannot. Erase. and also anything I've heard from Steven Wilson that was released before In Absentia, and quite possibly Deadwing.
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The 90s were fucking great, dunno whatcha talking about :P
Heh, Damnation is by far my fav Opeth album, and I don't dig anything else they've done, mostly the death metal albums - feels like they have 1 or 2 songs and the rest are just variations of them.
Dunno if I dig The Incident than much, but it's certainly a damn fine album, kinda underrated tbh.
Also, Ommadawn >>>>> Tubular Bells.
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agree with sacul that the 80's as a whole sucked for music in general
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The 80s were terrible for most things except sci fi movies.
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By the same token - a recording of someone walking around for 3 minutes is also a "song".
You're comparing ambient sounds, which are more than likely made with musical instruments, to someone walking around? That's not a very good analogy.
agree with sacul that the 80's as a whole sucked for music in general
Agreed. There were maybe a handful of songs from the 80s that I would say are worth listening to. The 90s, on the other hand, were a decade where different musical directions were explored. Some good, some bad.
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Alternative/grunge is my biggest beef with the 90's.
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The 80's did not suck!!!!!!
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agree with sacul that the 80's as a whole sucked for music in general
I disagree with this 1000% percent. Maybe even a million percent.
Back In Black
Appetite For Destruction
Number of the Beast
Rio
Purple Rain
1984 (duh)
Born In The U.S.A.
Synchronicity
Straight Outta Compton
The Joshua Tree
Perfect Strangers
90210
Hysteria
Let's Dance
Master of Puppets
Thriller
Brothers In Arms
So
Licensed To Ill
Mofos, please.
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There's always good music in each decade. To generalize is not being honest.
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There's always good music in each decade. To generalize is not being honest.
NO, YOU SHUT UP
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I love the 80īs and the 90īs.
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There's always good music in each decade. To generalize is not being honest.
NO, YOU SHUT UP
You're still my cherry pie baby.
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90210
(https://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Beverly-Hills-90210.jpg)
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90210
(https://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Beverly-Hills-90210.jpg)
Old school. Scott shot himself by accident in Season 2!
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I'm gonna pretend I just didn't read that.
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I'm gonna pretend I just didn't read that.
You're the one that posted it!
My ex watched 90210 religiously, so I know stuff about it by osmosis.
Like that fact that Enuff Z'Nuff's "Hot Little Summer Girl" was the background music for a volleyball scene. :lol
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agree with sacul that the 80's as a whole sucked for music in general
I disagree with this 1000% percent. Maybe even a million percent.
Number of the Beast
Purple Rain (just the title track)
The Joshua Tree
Master of Puppets
Thriller
So
Mofos, please.
I left the ones that are worth listening to.
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90210
(https://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Beverly-Hills-90210.jpg)
I know like 3 of them . Jason Priestley. Siobahn Whatshername and the other guy next to those two whose name I cant remember.
Edit : Shannon Doherty.
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Jason Priestley was in a few episodes of Haven and Luke Perry was in an episode of Leverage.
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Didn't one of them star in a Buffy The Vampire Slayer movie that had nothing to do with the TV show ?
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Didn't one of them star in a Buffy The Vampire Slayer movie that had nothing to do with the TV show ?
Luke Perry...yes. He was Pike. Peewee Herman was the other vampire.
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Heroes is a great song, but the album is just ok.
Heroes is easily in my top 10 favourite songs of all time, but the album wouldn't make my top 5 Bowie albums.
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The 90's were a terrible decade for music.
Off topic. It can't be "controversial" if it is undisputed.
Banned.
...hold it now. Wait a minute.
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Dunno if I dig The Incident than much, but it's certainly a damn fine album, kinda underrated tbh.
Tbh my comment about The Incident is partly a statement about how well I like The Incident and partly a statement about how much I don't really care about a whole lot of SW's music.
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Heroes is a great song, but the album is just ok.
Heroes is easily in my top 10 favourite songs of all time, but the album wouldn't make my top 5 Bowie albums.
I've never liked Bowie's voice but Heroes is especially bad.
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Heroes is a great song, but the album is just ok.
Heroes is easily in my top 10 favourite songs of all time, but the album wouldn't make my top 5 Bowie albums.
I've never liked Bowie's voice but Heroes is especially bad.
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/Dont-call-me-shirley_zpseec4jwek.png) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/Dont-call-me-shirley_zpseec4jwek.png.html)
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I've never heard Leslie Nielsen sing so I'm not sure what your point is.
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90210
(https://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Beverly-Hills-90210.jpg)
The chick on the right is 29, playing 16. Shannen Dougherty's eyes are crooked.
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The 70's is an overrated decade for music.
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I've never heard Leslie Nielsen sing so I'm not sure what your point is.
It means "Surely you can't be serious".
But I should have saved it for this.
The 70's is an overrated decade for music.
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The 70's is an overrated decade for music.
Overrated perhaps, but still good. There's more to the universe than Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.
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It means "Surely you can't be serious".
I know. It was a pic or GIF in reply to a post in a thread about controversial opinions. . .
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The 70's is an overrated decade for music.
Overrated perhaps, but still good. There's more to the universe than Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.
Yeah I don't think the 70's is bad at all. It's just that people often make it sound like the 70's were all that and the 80's, 90's and 00's was garbage. Personally I think there's just as much goodness from those decades.
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It means "Surely you can't be serious".
I know. It was a pic or GIF in reply to a post in a thread about controversial opinions. . .
Have you lost your sense of humor Eddie? -- Roger Rabbit.
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It means "Surely you can't be serious".
I know. It was a pic or GIF in reply to a post in a thread about controversial opinions. . .
Have you lost your sense of humor Eddie? -- Roger Rabbit.
:angry: I accidentally the whole thing.
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AOR is the one genre (not counting random fad genres) that I universally despise.
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
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AOR is the one genre (not counting random fad genres) that I universally despise.
70's and some 80's I love. 90's and on I'm with you.
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I don't get Cynic.
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Layne Staley was a better vocalist than Kurt Cobain by far, and Alice in Chains (with Layne) was a much better band than Nirvana.
Haken's Affinity is better than every DT album since SDOIT.
Octavarium is Dream Theater's worst album.
Megadeth's Dystopia is better than any album by Metallica that came after Master of Puppets. Rust in Peace and Peace Sells are both better than anything Metallica has ever done.
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Haken's Affinity is better than every DT album since SDOIT.
Dunno if this is controversial. People on here say the same thing about every Haken album. :lol
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Haken's Affinity is better than every DT album since SDOIT.
Dunno if this is controversial. People on here say the same thing about every Haken album. :lol
Wasn't sure if it really was. I don't mean to sound like I am bashing DT because I still love them, just kind of lost interest in them. I did actually enjoy The Astonishing though, from what I've read here, maybe that is controversial :lol
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Haken's best album is better than DT's worst :neverusethis:
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
It's definitely their worst album between ToT and SC.
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falling into infinity isn't as good as images and words.
blackwater park was released after still life.
steven wilson is a singer and songwriter
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
It's definitely their worst album between ToT and SC.
:lol
I love you. SC meets the worst criteria for me.
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Fates Warning is a better prog metal band that Dream Theater.
Van Halen is just an okay band.
Guns n Roses gets way more attention than they ever deserved.
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
Opinions are a beautiful thing :lol
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
Opinions are a beautiful thing :lol
They sure are! Nee Ner, Nee Ner!! :lol
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I like Octavarium. It's solidly mid tier DT.
SC is my least favorite of them all, worse than the debut.
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I don't think Octavarium is a bad album, I just never really cared for it much aside from one or two songs. I know a lot of people like to bash SC on this forum, but I think it's actually way more fun to listen to than Octavarium, as cheesy as it is. My problem with Octavarium is that most of it feels so bland to me.
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Yea, your feelings toward Octavarium is how I feel about SC and vice versa. I really love the spacious production on 8vm and the more melodically driven songs.
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Octivarium is hardly the worst DT album.
It's definitely their worst album between ToT and SC.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SON OF A BITCH! :lol
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Hey, I have the right to any of my opinions, no matter how extreme or inflammatory they are.
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I don't get Cynic.
This so much. I've seen a lot of love for this band and logically I should like them, but they just bore me.
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Layne Staley was a better vocalist than Kurt Cobain by far, and Alice in Chains (with Layne) was a much better band than Nirvana.
I like Nevermind, but I agree. I don't think that's a controversial opinion around here though, since the AIC thread has got 10 pages, while there's no thread for Nirvana at all.
Fates Warning is a better prog metal band that Dream Theater.
Yup.
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falling into infinity isn't as good as images and words.
I disagree. It's close, with FII being my #3 and IAW #4, but I come back to FII noticeably more often than to IAW.
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dammit scorp i was trying to have really uncontroversial opinions and also literal facts (not in that specific case ofc)
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:angry: I accidentally the whole thing.
sig'd
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
If we're going by decade I think by 2020 it could be my favorite. Right now it's 2000's.
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
Wow. William Shatner is a fan of The Dear Hunter?! :lol
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
Yes. And Red Hands is great but I agree with Super Dude, despite that I still prefer the other albums more. There is something I love about Act I that I can't put my finger on and I personally think Acts IV & V are a massive leap forward from Act III
Opinions
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
Wow. William Shatner is a fan of The Dear Hunter?! :lol
Deer Hunter ? At his age - he's more like an Old Dear Hunter... :zydar:
*slide whistle*
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The 70's is an overrated decade for music.
There's more to the universe than Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.
I agree with the latter, not the former.
I don't get Cynic.
You'll get used to Kotow. He grows on you.
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
Yes. And Red Hands is great but I agree with Super Dude, despite that I still prefer the other albums more. There is something I love about Act I that I can't put my finger on and I personally think Acts IV & V are a massive leap forward from Act III
Opinions
Don't worry it's just a Dear Hunter Fandom Joke/Meme that 'Red Hands' is the single greatest achievement in the history of the human race.
*I personally don't even think it's the best song on the album.
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You'll get used to Kotow. He grows on you.
:getoffmylawn:
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(https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj22orBoPn1qakh43o1_500.gif)
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:getoffmylawn: :getoffmylawn:
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(https://media2.giphy.com/media/y6r8eSqBvyeoU/giphy.gif)
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Here's one:
I don't get all the fuss over Colors by Between the Buried and Me??
It's ok but far from their best album in my opinion!
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A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
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A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
You dislike two great bands and praise one of the worst bands ever. :facepalm:
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A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
You dislike two great bands and praise one of the worst bands ever. :facepalm:
Yep, I also think My Chemical Romance are a great band :corn
Also, for the record, I don't dislike Iron Maiden and Tesseract. I just think they get WAY more praise than I could justify giving. I still listen to both from time to time though.
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A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
You dislike two great bands and praise one of the worst bands ever. :facepalm:
Yep, I also think My Chemical Romance are a great band :corn
I never really heard them, so I won't judge. ;)
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A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
You dislike two great bands and praise one of the worst bands ever. :facepalm:
Yep, I also think My Chemical Romance are a great band :corn
I never really heard them, so I won't judge. ;)
They just got lumped in with the whole emo=shit thing.
Most people who hated on them probably never listened to them.
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That is probably true. It irritates me when people do that.
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I've never owned anything by them but the seem very adventurous and willing to grow from album to album from the songs I've heard.
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They were kind of an easy target. They always promoted each album with a new image which also brought criticism. The Black Parade was a fairly good concept album though.
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
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Oh, here's one: I find The Dear Hunter's Act II to be the least enjoyable of all the albums so far, including Migrant. It's also way overrated.
But. It's. The. One. With. Red Hands. On It.
Which, I'll admit, is the song that is the reason I listen to TDH in the first place, but it's gotten to be such a tired song. It's little wonder Casey no longer wants to play it live.
A few more:
Iron Maiden aren't all that.
By the Way is the best Red Hot Chilli Peppers album
Tesseract are overrated
You dislike two great bands and praise one of the worst bands ever. :facepalm:
Yep, I also think My Chemical Romance are a great band :corn
Also, for the record, I don't dislike Iron Maiden and Tesseract. I just think they get WAY more praise than I could justify giving. I still listen to both from time to time though.
They're kinda "meh" for me. I like one or two songs off Three Cheers (specifically I'm Not Okay and Sleep), but they're my least favorite of the big three from the 2000s (FOB and Panic!). FOB is pretty rad btw.
Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
:P This may shock you, but there are some great albums that were released in 2016, that weren't releases by bands from the '80s.
Oh, also: I hate RHCP. Their music is bad and they should feel bad.
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Not sure if it's controversial or not, but Twenty One Pilots just released a cover of the My Chemical Romance song "Cancer", and it is, at a rough estimate, 1000% better than the original.
Also, the accompanying lyric video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6i1SAHetc) is cool as hell.
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Not sure if this is controversial but Twenty One Pilots is a pretty good band
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Not sure if this is controversial but Twenty One Pilots is a pretty good band
The more I hear, the more I agree.
My 13-year old daughter is head over heels over them.
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
:P This may shock you, but there are some great albums that were released in 2016, that weren't releases by bands from the '80s.
Well, yeah, there were a few. But it's hard to quantify. Taking a quick look at the release date calendar, in 2016 so far we have gotten Megadeth, DT, Redemption, Lacuna Coil, Flotsam and Jetsam, and Fates Warning. Yeah, you could maybe stretch a little and include Jelly Jam and Avantasia in there as well. But at most, that's only about 8 really good albums in 2016 so far (and, yes, we can bump it up to 10 with the upcoming Epica and Neal Morse albums). Now of those, we do have a handful of stellar albums that are arguably better than anything that came out in the '80s (DT, Fates, Redemption, and we'll see if Epica and NM qualify). So maybe quality-wise, 2016 is "better." But in terms of quantity of good music, we're not there. So I guess it just depends on whether one appreciates quantity of quality or quality or quality. And, I mean, 10 good albums in a year is a good year--don't get me wrong. But I think it's debatable whether that makes it "the period with the best music ever." But "controversial opinions," so...
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If by "today" you mean "the modern era", i.e. the last (IDK) 10 years or so, I would say...maybe.
I certainly think there is more good music being released now than at any other point in history. But that's a quantity issue, not a quality issue.
It's hard to say. I mean, yes, 1986 was fantastic. But now, living in 2016, some of the stuff that was considered to be great then now sounds dated, and I never listen to it.
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Not sure if it's a controversial opinion as much as it is a statement, but I feel like whenever people talk about "it was better back in the day" or talking about music being at an all time low point today, they really haven't explored that much modern music and they base that statement mostly on what they hear on radio or at the coffee shop.
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And, some people are happy just listening to the same old stuff over and over again.
Some other people are the opposite, and seem to absorb new music at a rate for which I could never keep up and really appreciate any of the music, having such a quick turnover and not being able to absorb it.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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When I used to listen to the radio - i'd listen to actual rock shows and guys like John Peel and Mark Radcliffe when he was on after 10PM or The Evening Session with Steve Lamacq & Jo Whiley.
Shows that played actual alternative / indie / rock ... and I discovered great bands all the time.
I rarely discover new bands new and generally just stick to my faves.
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1. No musician benefited more from dying early than Kurt Cobain (Jim Morrison is a close 2nd)
2. To get my hair metal fix, I go to Steel Panther or the Vinnie Vincent Invasion. That's all I need
3. Widespread Panic > Phish
4. Guns N Roses = meh, Pearl Jam too. AC/DC as well
5. Saw Tool once. Was bored to tears and almost fell asleep. Left early thinking Fantomas blew them away.
6. No John Frusciante, No RHCP for me (Uplift Mofo Party Plan aside)
7. Love DT but don't care for most progressive metal
8. Ozzy has a double album of good material since Diary
9. KISS should have gone on Portnoy's hiatus after Love Gun
10. Van Hagar has one good album of material and most of it is from 5150.
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1. No musician benefited more from dying early than Kurt Cobain (Jim Morrison is a close 2nd)
They both died, so I'd say that both "benefited" equally.
As in, not at all.
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I hate KISS.
VS is a terrible follow up to TEN.
Frusciante is a moderate guitar player. Nothing special at all. Dave Navarro is miles better.
I agree that outside of DT - I don't listen to any other bands in that style.
I saw TOOL on the 10,000 Days tour and it was really good but perfunctory. Nothing more.
Metallica are a much better band and way more consistent than Guns N Roses.
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1. No musician benefited more from dying early than Kurt Cobain (Jim Morrison is a close 2nd)
They both died, so I'd say that both "benefited" equally.
As in, not at all.
He probably means their legacy and people who benefit from their royalties.
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Not sure if it's a controversial opinion as much as it is a statement, but I feel like whenever people talk about "it was better back in the day" or talking about music being at an all time low point today, they really haven't explored that much modern music and they base that statement mostly on what they hear on radio or at the coffee shop.
I don't think that is necessarily true. I think there is some truth - not an absolute rule, but some truth - to the notion that you like best what got you into the "thing" to start with. I remember being blown out of the water by Genesis watching the "In Concert" film and then listening to Abacab. To this day, the "Wind and Wuthering through 3SL" is by far and away my favorite period. I got into DT back in '92 with Images and Words, and to this day it's still my favorite album (though SFAM and Octavarium are up there too). Kiss. Alive and Alive II were my first records, so the "Original Six" are my favorite (though Creatures is up there too). Pearl Jam and Soundgarden - 10 and Badmotorfinger, and while I think I like Superunknown better, it's still the same era.
So for me, I got into music in general with 70's British rock, Ritchie Blackmore, and GREAT songwriting (Billy Joel). So for me, the music - even that made today - has to have great melody (HATE screamo vocals), has to have some coherence as a song (I don't go for the a-rhythmic, no structure type soundscapes), and it has to have decent, melodic, riff-based guitar (not a huge fan of the Tom Morello noise-scape guitar). I don't hate music today, but something like Drake song or anything that the writer starts with "I got some beats off the interwebs" is kind of at a disadvantage with me.
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Not sure if it's a controversial opinion as much as it is a statement, but I feel like whenever people talk about "it was better back in the day" or talking about music being at an all time low point today, they really haven't explored that much modern music and they base that statement mostly on what they hear on radio or at the coffee shop.
Also the "back in the day" comment is taken out of context. The best music will survive from past time periods.
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1. No musician benefited more from dying early than Kurt Cobain (Jim Morrison is a close 2nd)
They both died, so I'd say that both "benefited" equally.
As in, not at all.
He probably means their legacy and people who benefit from their royalties.
Exactly...more so legacy
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This may shock you
It does. :lol
Well, yeah, there were a few. But it's hard to quantify. Taking a quick look at the release date calendar, in 2016 so far we have gotten Megadeth, DT, Redemption, Lacuna Coil, Flotsam and Jetsam, and Fates Warning. Yeah, you could maybe stretch a little and include Jelly Jam and Avantasia in there as well. But at most, that's only about 8 really good albums in 2016 so far (and, yes, we can bump it up to 10 with the upcoming Epica and Neal Morse albums). Now of those, we do have a handful of stellar albums that are arguably better than anything that came out in the '80s (DT, Fates, Redemption, and we'll see if Epica and NM qualify). So maybe quality-wise, 2016 is "better." But in terms of quantity of good music, we're not there. So I guess it just depends on whether one appreciates quantity of quality or quality or quality. And, I mean, 10 good albums in a year is a good year--don't get me wrong. But I think it's debatable whether that makes it "the period with the best music ever." But "controversial opinions," so...
It's like I don't even know you anymore.
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
:P This may shock you, but there are some great albums that were released in 2016, that weren't releases by bands from the '80s.
Well, yeah, there were a few. But it's hard to quantify. Taking a quick look at the release date calendar, in 2016 so far we have gotten Megadeth, DT, Redemption, Lacuna Coil, Flotsam and Jetsam, and Fates Warning. Yeah, you could maybe stretch a little and include Jelly Jam and Avantasia in there as well. But at most, that's only about 8 really good albums in 2016 so far (and, yes, we can bump it up to 10 with the upcoming Epica and Neal Morse albums). Now of those, we do have a handful of stellar albums that are arguably better than anything that came out in the '80s (DT, Fates, Redemption, and we'll see if Epica and NM qualify). So maybe quality-wise, 2016 is "better." But in terms of quantity of good music, we're not there. So I guess it just depends on whether one appreciates quantity of quality or quality or quality. And, I mean, 10 good albums in a year is a good year--don't get me wrong. But I think it's debatable whether that makes it "the period with the best music ever." But "controversial opinions," so...
Well maybe he was including music outside the prog/power metal world - like, there are only one or two albums on my AOTY list that are barely metal or rock :P
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1. No musician benefited more from dying early than Kurt Cobain (Jim Morrison is a close 2nd)
They both died, so I'd say that both "benefited" equally.
As in, not at all.
He probably means their legacy and people who benefit from their royalties.
You think so?
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
:P This may shock you, but there are some great albums that were released in 2016, that weren't releases by bands from the '80s.
Well, yeah, there were a few. But it's hard to quantify. Taking a quick look at the release date calendar, in 2016 so far we have gotten Megadeth, DT, Redemption, Lacuna Coil, Flotsam and Jetsam, and Fates Warning. Yeah, you could maybe stretch a little and include Jelly Jam and Avantasia in there as well. But at most, that's only about 8 really good albums in 2016 so far (and, yes, we can bump it up to 10 with the upcoming Epica and Neal Morse albums). Now of those, we do have a handful of stellar albums that are arguably better than anything that came out in the '80s (DT, Fates, Redemption, and we'll see if Epica and NM qualify). So maybe quality-wise, 2016 is "better." But in terms of quantity of good music, we're not there. So I guess it just depends on whether one appreciates quantity of quality or quality or quality. And, I mean, 10 good albums in a year is a good year--don't get me wrong. But I think it's debatable whether that makes it "the period with the best music ever." But "controversial opinions," so...
Well maybe he was including music outside the prog/power metal world - like, there are only one or two albums on my AOTY list that are barely metal or rock :P
Well, sure, that's fine. But I am just focusing on quality music. I don't deny that there may be a couple of good albums that aren't rock, metal, or prog of some sort. But I am focusing on the rule rather than the exception.
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Nirvana was vastly overrated.
*eagerly awaits briang's return*
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Nirvana was vastly overrated.
I agree with this.
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Nirvana was vastly overrated.
I agree with this.
Me too. Bleach is on the same level as their contemporaries from the time. Nevermind had much better songs and Butch Vig's immaculate production.
In Utero is mostly blehhhh. Even the band were famously unhappy with it.
If Nirvana split up after the MTV Unplugged Show and Kurt didn't die. I don't think they'd be anywhere near as revered.
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A lot of people celebrate Nirvana as one of the bands that helped bring about the death of 80's hard rock and usher in the flannel-clad crapfest that was 90's grunge and alternative, but yeah, I think their popularity is even greater due to KC's death. I would be curious to see what would have become of them if he was still alive. Is it possible there would be no Foo Fighters?
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A lot of people celebrate Nirvana as one of the bands that helped bring about the death of 80's hard rock and usher in the flannel-clad crapfest that was 90's grunge and alternative, but yeah, I think their popularity is even greater due to KC's death. I would be curious to see what would have become of them if he was still alive. Is it possible there would be no Foo Fighters?
Of course it's possible, though I think they would have still been critical darlings. The David Frickes and Jann Wenners and Kurt Loders of the world LOVE THEM some Kurt Cobain. The prickly, pseudo-deep, pro-feminist (complete with obligatory nail polish and anti-rape song), anti-cock rock alternative superstar...
I think if Kurt lived, Ed Vedder's career wouldn't have been what it was, because he filled in nicely for Kurt when Chris Cornell wouldn't play the part.
I've sort of come around to why they are regarded - I believe it is largely "right place, right time", more than anything - but I too think they are FAR too over-rated. Cock rock was going to die one way or another, it was inevitable, but it just hastened the process. There was just far too much of this to be sustainable:
(https://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q591/Stadler111/M%20St%20John_zpsw8bj1exo.jpg)
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bosk your argument falls apart because you base it solely on the albums you define as "good music". just from my own purchases i'd say there are at least 10 albums from this year that i like quite a bit, none of them mentioned on your list. now include everyone in the list. suddenly there's a lot higher quantity of good music, ain't there?
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Agreed on Nirvana, they're quite lame imo.
Well, sure, that's fine. But I am just focusing on quality music. I don't deny that there may be a couple of good albums that aren't rock, metal, or prog of some sort. But I am focusing on the rule rather than the exception.
Your personal biased rule I guess :P
Also what Parama said.
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I'll also add "you've had 30 years to find all the good music from 1986 and 8.5 months to find all the good music from 2016"
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I'll also add "you've had 30 years to find all the good music from 1986 and 8.5 months to find all the good music ftomn2016"
Very good point dude.
+1 for the non Nirvana fans. I've never really been a fan of grunge in general though, prefer Dave Grohl's other contributions to music way more.
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It's definitely different from person to person, some people prefer to listen to 95% music they're already familiar with and just getting a handful of new albums every year, others go through 100 new albums in a year. There's not a right or wrong approach since it's subjective, but whenever I hear someone say "this year was bad for music" and it turns out they listened to 4 or 5 albums from the whole year, with at least 3 of those being bands they were already familiar with, I scratch my head. At least give yourself an honest chance to discover something!
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A lot of people celebrate Nirvana as one of the bands that helped bring about the death of 80's hard rock and usher in the flannel-clad crapfest that was 90's grunge and alternative, but yeah, I think their popularity is even greater due to KC's death. I would be curious to see what would have become of them if he was still alive. Is it possible there would be no Foo Fighters?
I've never credited Nirvana with ending 80's rock/metal. Nirvana didn't kill it. Time did. The 80's scene had become a parody of itself, and it was simply time for something to replace it. It was the beginning of a new decade after all. Can you imagine if "Smells Like Teen Spirit" had been released just two years sooner than it was? It would have tanked.
Believe me, I tried my damnedest to find something worth appreciating with Nirvana, but to this day, I've got nothing.
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It's definitely different from person to person, some people prefer to listen to 95% music they're already familiar with and just getting a handful of new albums every year, others go through 100 new albums in a year. There's not a right or wrong approach since it's subjective, but whenever I hear someone say "this year was bad for music" and it turns out they listened to 4 or 5 albums from the whole year, with at least 3 of those being bands they were already familiar with, I scratch my head. At least give yourself an honest chance to discover something!
So much truth on this.
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Today is actually the period with the best music ever.
I'm going to assume someone found a way to reverse time and it's now 1986 again?
:P This may shock you, but there are some great albums that were released in 2016, that weren't releases by bands from the '80s.
Well, yeah, there were a few. But it's hard to quantify. Taking a quick look at the release date calendar, in 2016 so far we have gotten Megadeth, DT, Redemption, Lacuna Coil, Flotsam and Jetsam, and Fates Warning. Yeah, you could maybe stretch a little and include Jelly Jam and Avantasia in there as well. But at most, that's only about 8 really good albums in 2016 so far (and, yes, we can bump it up to 10 with the upcoming Epica and Neal Morse albums). Now of those, we do have a handful of stellar albums that are arguably better than anything that came out in the '80s (DT, Fates, Redemption, and we'll see if Epica and NM qualify). So maybe quality-wise, 2016 is "better." But in terms of quantity of good music, we're not there. So I guess it just depends on whether one appreciates quantity of quality or quality or quality. And, I mean, 10 good albums in a year is a good year--don't get me wrong. But I think it's debatable whether that makes it "the period with the best music ever." But "controversial opinions," so...
Well maybe he was including music outside the prog/power metal world - like, there are only one or two albums on my AOTY list that are barely metal or rock :P
Well, sure, that's fine. But I am just focusing on quality music. I don't deny that there may be a couple of good albums that aren't rock, metal, or prog of some sort. But I am focusing on the rule rather than the exception.
This is probably one of the most narrow-minded comments I've seen on DTF.
I honestly think 2016 is one of the best years in music ever though and it's not just the hype talking
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Agreed on Nirvana, they're quite lame imo.
I never liked them. I'd say Dave Grohl benefited the most from Kurt's death. I'm not the biggest Dave Grohl fan but I won't deny he's really musically inclined and is a huge fan of music.
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It's not as easy for me to find new music now as it was only a few years ago (life changes, different responsibilities, etc). But there are certainly more really good acts, in more genres, now than ever.
I mean, if all you listen to is cock rock, then yeah, 1986 was the gold standard. But there are so many great acts out there making so many different kinds of music.
For example, one of my favorite genres is progressive bluegrass, which at one time wasn't even a thing (Chris Thile can do no wrong in my book).
And even in a genre as venerable as jazz, you still have colossal contributions from newer artists, such as Kamasi Washington's The Epic.
It's awesome that there is so much good stuff, even within niche genres, but depressing that I can't listen to all of it.
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As Hef just pointed out, as I've gotten older I can put in the time to search, listen to music like I did in my youth. that's not to say I still don't but it gets harder to do so. I myself, always search for new music. I think there is great, good poor music in all decades. I just don't have to time to play music like I used to so my view becomes a little more narrow.
In this day and age you just have to search a bit. That's why I love this site, I get to hear of bands I've never heard of, check them out and then buy if I like.
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bosk your argument falls apart because you base it solely on the albums you define as "good music". just from my own purchases i'd say there are at least 10 albums from this year that i like quite a bit, none of them mentioned on your list. now include everyone in the list. suddenly there's a lot higher quantity of good music, ain't there?
Yeah, exactly this. I don't mean to keep beating a dead horse, but DT didn't even make my top 10 this year (however, it's also not what you might be thinking - nobody on my list has a name that rhymes with Schmanye Schmest either).
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About searching for new music, i mostly go through phases: sometimes i am eager to listen to new stuff, sometimes i spend a whole week listening to the old bands that i love since i was a teenager. It depends on my mood. I'll say that Spotify helped me a lot in discovering new music.
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This is probably one of the most narrow-minded comments I've seen on DTF.
You're hanging out in the wrong threads, then. This is one of the most benign comments I've seen bosk make. I could never even begin to count the many, many times I've witnessed older members of the board weather some of the most elitist, pretentious, self-important, narrow-minded arrogance I could imagine, due to their tastes in older music. Trust me, this is nothing.
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Yeah, you want to see narrow minded? You got it.
If it doesn't have any whahibrido pickingant, it isn't worth listening to, and anyone who listens to it is a moron who never gets out of his mom's basement.
Satisfied?
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mic drop, bitches
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This is probably one of the most narrow-minded comments I've seen on DTF.
You're hanging out in the wrong threads, then. This is one of the most benign comments I've seen bosk make. I could never even begin to count the many, many times I've witnessed older members of the board weather some of the most elitist, pretentious, self-important, narrow-minded arrogance I could imagine, due to their tastes in older music. Trust me, this is nothing.
I'll take your word for it and will shut the fuck up then. :lol
/Train of Naught over and out
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god, whahibrido pickingant was cool for like a year or two but it started getting repetitive and boring fast, now it just plain sucks
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Not when I say it.
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Listen dudes, thanks for everyone being so enthusiastic to contribute to this thread. It's been a while since I've had a really successful post on DTF like this. :D
Now this is not targeted at anyone specifically, but the point of a controversial opinion thread is to post controversial opinions about music. It is not about making fun of people or their musical tastes, no matter how ridiculous or absurd you think they're being. In the interest of having this thread remain open, let's all try to restrain ourselves a little bit and bear in mind da rules. Let's all try to stay respectful towards one another. I know this can be a fine line, so try to imagine yourself at the receiving end of your post before you post it. You can be contrarian and edgy all you want, but not at other's expense. Cool? Cool. Thanks all!
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YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH
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I know discussion on it has kinda ended, but I definitely agree that Nirvana were vastly overrated and not very good. It's a shame that they were kind of the poster child for grunge, since there was so much better music being produced in that genre. Although I still think grunge as a genre is kind of dumb too, since none of the bands really sounded all that similar, aside from playing some kind of heavy rock music.
As for a controversial opinion:
Van Halen III isn't as bad as everyone says it is.
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These days I think it's more controversial to say that Nirvana were the best grunge band, since the "Nirvana are overrated" backlash is something I see again and again.
To me, Nirvana are still the best grunge band. I don't like them, or grunge, all that much. But Kurt's approach to music was much more influential than the other grunge bands, who were doing knew things but ultimately felt like they were just making angsty hard rock / metal. Kurt/Nirvana are the ones who decided to throw the rule book completely out the window, and help infuse punk back into what was considered cool.
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Van Halen III isn't as bad as everyone says it is.
No, it's worse! Haha, I kid. I like it too. Not of the calibre of the better VH records (1984, Fair Warning, ...Carnal KNowledge) but still.
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Nirvana had a similar impact that the Sex Pistols had. Sure there were loads of better punk rock bands than the Pistols, but they were iconic to the movement.
And I think grunge was more an attitude than one specific musical style. It was a reactionary movement to the over the top indulgence of the glam metal scene. It turned heavy music back into an angrier and more introspective style. For the better IMO.
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These days I think it's more controversial to say that Nirvana were the best grunge band, since the "Nirvana are overrated" backlash is something I see again and again.
To me, Nirvana are still the best grunge band. I don't like them, or grunge, all that much. But Kurt's approach to music was much more influential than the other grunge bands, who were doing knew things but ultimately felt like they were just making angsty hard rock / metal. Kurt/Nirvana are the ones who decided to throw the rule book completely out the window, and help infuse punk back into what was considered cool.
I'm loathe to say "best", because I just don't think they were (Mudhoney or early Soundgarden better espoused the ethos), but I was around then, and I will give you that they were different. Pearl Jam was just early Whitesnake or UFO with Roger Daltrey singing (as much as I love them). I still think Nirvana was as critically acclaimed because of WHO Cobain was, not the band he was in. They had videos, they were accessible, in a way that the real grunge acts of the early Seattle scene would have rejected out of the gate.
My two cents.
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Nirvana had a similar impact that the Sex Pistols had. Sure there were loads of better punk rock bands than the Pistols, but they were iconic to the movement.
And I think grunge was more an attitude than one specific musical style. It was a reactionary movement to the over the top indulgence of the glam metal scene. It turned heavy music back into an angrier and more introspective style. For the better IMO.
Nailed it. I actually liked Nirvana a lot (although not as much as Soundgarden or STP). But anyway, as to whether there was a specific grunge musical style, I've never seen it summed up more succinctly than in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs5VL2NWV3E
For those who haven't seen it, by the way, Hype! (the documentary that clip is from) is fantastic. I learned a lot about grunge from it, and it doesn't necessarily focus all that much on the biggest acts aside from Pearl Jam.
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Punk spawned from everything I loved from the 70's. :lol
What's was happening was tours became bigger, with smoke, lasers,huge lights and punk was what the next generation was rebelling about. Guttural, simple structure no flash all organic. I liked the influence into AOR music like Blondie, Talking Heads, Joe Jackson, The Cars ect.
Same with Grunge. People were tired of hair metal and went guttural again. For me the first band that was not flashy like hair metal but wasn't linked with grunge was Tesla.
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Joe, Tesla came out in 1986. They were a classic hard rock style. Not sure how they could even be in a sentence with grunge.
Oh, and I love Blondie!!
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I'm not saying they are grunge but they were the first band not to be hair metal and they were popular.
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Nirvana is essentially just Pixies without any of the good parts.
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Listen dudes, thanks for everyone being so enthusiastic to contribute to this thread. It's been a while since I've had a really successful post on DTF like this. :D
Now this is not targeted at anyone specifically, but the point of a controversial opinion thread is to post controversial opinions about music. It is not about making fun of people or their musical tastes, no matter how ridiculous or absurd you think they're being. In the interest of having this thread remain open, let's all try to restrain ourselves a little bit and bear in mind da rules. Let's all try to stay respectful towards one another. I know this can be a fine line, so try to imagine yourself at the receiving end of your post before you post it. You can be contrarian and edgy all you want, but not at other's expense. Cool? Cool. Thanks all!
Actually, you wouldn't have said that unless there was someone or someones that you had in mind who inspired your comment. ;)
Moving right along...
Punk spawned from everything I loved from the 70's. :lol
What's was happening was tours became bigger, with smoke, lasers,huge lights and punk was what the next generation was rebelling about. Guttural, simple structure no flash all organic. I liked the influence into AOR music like Blondie, Talking Heads, Joe Jackson, The Cars ect.
Same with Grunge. People were tired of hair metal and went guttural again. For me the first band that was not flashy like hair metal but wasn't linked with grunge was Tesla.
I never liked punk. I always thought it was this monotonous and pointless kind of music, but I suppose that's a bit harsh. :lol
Tesla, I didn't discover until The Great Radio Controversy. What a great album that was.
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I never liked punk myself but the influence in other bands I liked.
LieLow, you will be shocked but I hated the Pixies. I was more into the Posies. The 80's style I loved was Simple Minds, Big Country ect besides the program and the metal I followed.
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I'm not a big fan of GnR, but November Rain is a goddamn masterpiece. I recently rediscovered it, and I can't stop listening to it. Axl might be a worse singer than Dave Mustaine, but his vocals don't hinder the song in any way. Although I'd love to hear Russell Allen sing it.
The Astonishing is a great album, but being so long, I can only listen to it in small doses. Our New World is the best song on the album.
If Carry Underwood's lyrics weren't so abysmal, I'd be able to say I like some Country music. Not really controversial unless you think she has good lyrics, which she doesn't.
I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG. There's my Briang tribute. I kind of wish he'd return to tell us all how Smells Like Teen Spirit is the best thing to happen to music and we just aren't listening correctly.
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I'm not a big fan of GnR, but November Rain is a goddamn masterpiece. I recently rediscovered it, and I can't stop listening to it. Axl might be a worse singer than Dave Mustaine, but his vocals don't hinder the song in any way. Although I'd love to hear Russell Allen sing it.
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but despite feeling about the same as you toward GNR in general, I agree that it is a great song.
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oh yeah. let me just drop in to say that mastodon are pretty dang overrated imo. have never been able to get into leviathan, blood mountain is an incredibly average album, crack the skye is good and not great, and the hunter is again just a really average album. they have a handful of songs i like a lot but usually they're not very interesting even when they're still "okay".
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I'm with you on the Mastodon
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That's such a bad opinion omg
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oh yeah. let me just drop in to say that mastodon are pretty dang overrated imo. have never been able to get into leviathan, blood mountain is an incredibly average album, crack the skye is good and not great, and the hunter is again just a really average album. they have a handful of songs i like a lot but usually they're not very interesting even when they're still "okay".
I kind of agree. I mean I really like Mastodon but when Leviathan was released back in 2004 it was being heralded as the album of the century. I do like Leviathan (but Crack the Skye is my #1) but it was album of the year in all the magazines back then. Every album since has of been greeted with the same hype. So yea, that album was certainly overrated and I do agree the band are too (even though I love them they probably wouldn't crack my top #20 bands). There are certainly a lot of better bands that don't get anywhere near the amount of hype Mastodon have had in the past.
I'm pretty sure that they are very hit and miss live as well, from what I've heard.
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I've just posted a controversial opinion over in the Devin Townsend thread so I'll throw it around over here too.
I don't think Ghost and Casualties of Cool are anything to write home about. I find them to be mainly very dull. I understand some people like chilled out music like that at certain times but I'd be inclined to find some random chilled music on youtube if that was me.
If I listen to Devy it's not because I want some music in the background.
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we cannot be friends :corn
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I just prefer Devin's bombastic side.
.......and to be friendless :yeahright
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Then I assume you prefer
ZILTOID!
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The guitar solo for November Rain borders on being a fucking masterpiece.
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The guitar solo for November Rain borders on being a fucking masterpiece.
Not controversial to these ears. I mean the song blows, but other than that, we are in complete agreement.
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The guitar solo for November Rain borders on being a fucking masterpiece.
I mean the song blows
You monster!
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Russian Circles have basically become Explosions in the Sky-worshipers since their 2nd album which pretty much makes them derivative and unappealing unlike on Enter.
Murder By Death jumped the shark starting with their 3rd album In Bocca al Lupo when their singer started singing like Johnny Cash and they stopped using piano, aside from the 1 instrumental EP Finch. Which is unfortunate because their 1st 2 albums are awesome.
St.Vincent's music may be more experimental, but her songwriting has nose-dived since her refreshing King Crimson-with-Annie Haslam style vocals on her debut album "Marry Me."
Margot and the Nuclear So and So's should/should have change(d) their name (like Murder by Death) after half the members left and Richard Edwards decided to make the band go from prog to garage.
The only Riverside album worth going back to is ADHD per the energy and riffs
Angra became an unappealing Power Metal band once Andre Matos left.
Crippled Black Phoenix needs to work with a producer and stop releasing 1 hour+ albums every 2 years.
Pat Metheny, as much as I love the guy, hasn't varied his sound all that much since The Way Up, despite experimenting with different approaches (Orchestrion).
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The only Riverside album worth going back to is ADHD per the energy and riffs
y'know, i'm mostly inclined to agree with you here with the caveat that i also like memories in my head a fair bit but it's an ep not an album so teeeechnically i agree with you here?
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Then I assume you prefer
ZILTOID!
I do prefer Ziltoid but those albums are fairly low on my rankings. My favourites are Ocean Machine, Epicloud, Terria, Accelerated Evolution.
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I'm with you on the Mastodon
:getoffmylawn:
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Here's an opinion for ya.
Megadeth are completely terrible and Mastodon are the new Metallica.
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Music is overrated
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Music is overrated
I prefer the medium of independent thought.
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Music is overrated
I prefer the medium of independent thought.
What he said.
(I can't tell if that joke was subtle or obvious)
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:)
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Did somebody say Mastodon?
Yeah, I knew I have to love this guys but ccouldn't get into anything but Crack the Skye. Then I tried harder and now I love them. It's just one of those bands you don't like on first listen but know there is something about them.
Same thing with Devin Townsend, difference being I still don't get most of his music, sadly.
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I loved Leviathan instantly....
As far as Mastodon go - I actually like The Hunter as much as Crack The Skye. if not more.
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I'm not a big fan of GnR, but November Rain is a goddamn masterpiece. I recently rediscovered it, and I can't stop listening to it. Axl might be a worse singer than Dave Mustaine, but his vocals don't hinder the song in any way. Although I'd love to hear Russell Allen sing it.
November Rain is definitely their best song and, like you, I'm not a big GNR fan. It's one of their few songs that I can still listen to. Most of them being on the Use Your Illusion albums.
That's one of my "controversial" music opinions. The Use Your Illusion albums are way better than Appetite.
AOR is the one genre (not counting random fad genres) that I universally despise.
I don't generally despise it. It does have some really good moments, but for the most part it's dreadfully monotonous.
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The guitar solo for November Rain borders on being a fucking masterpiece.
Not controversial to these ears. I mean the song blows, but other than that, we are in complete agreement.
Sorry, but no. I remember getting a bootleg around the time that Appetite really hit the stratosphere (remember, it wasn't a number 1 on day of release; it was a fairly slow burn) and there was a demo version of November Rain. Two actually, one with the piano, and one more like Dream On with the piano arranged for guitar. I remember thinking "WTF??" Why isn't this on Appetite? This is going to be LEGENDARY. And it was. It accumulated some bloat and bombast in the intervening years, but that arrangement, that vocal, that solo... that's a legit, top tier song right there.
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I'm not saying they are grunge but they were the first band not to be hair metal and they were popular.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/426012445977565709/
That's the back of their first album. I can see why some would group them with hair metal.
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Oh I'm not saying either but they were the first band to wear ripped jeans, t-shirts and flannels. I'm not saying they were hair metal or grunge, they were their own in a time of hair metal.
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The guitar solo for November Rain borders on being a fucking masterpiece.
Not controversial to these ears. I mean the song blows, but other than that, we are in complete agreement.
Sorry, but no. I remember getting a bootleg around the time that Appetite really hit the stratosphere (remember, it wasn't a number 1 on day of release; it was a fairly slow burn) and there was a demo version of November Rain. Two actually, one with the piano, and one more like Dream On with the piano arranged for guitar. I remember thinking "WTF??" Why isn't this on Appetite? This is going to be LEGENDARY. And it was. It accumulated some bloat and bombast in the intervening years, but that arrangement, that vocal, that solo... that's a legit, top tier song right there.
That song wouldn't have worked on AFD at all, so it was the right choice not to include it. But it works perfectly with the more produced over the top sound on UYI. I would have loved to hear You Could Be Mine on AFD though.
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Oh I'm not saying either but they were the first band to wear ripped jeans, t-shirts and flannels. I'm not saying they were hair metal or grunge, they were their own in a time of hair metal.
I think they were just realistic and knew that they weren't pretty enough to go the usual hair metal style :lol
I was a Tesla fan from early on - totally obscure band in Australia and I never realised how big they were in the US until I wiki'd them a few years back and saw the chart positions etc...
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About Mastodon, yeah they are incredibly overrated. Okay band, but nothing out of the ordinary.
I donīt know if they have fans here, but i think QOTSA's last album, like Clockwork, was mediocre. Everybody seems to think it's amazing, but i don't see it. boring piano ballads, no good riffs...meh.
In fact, their last good record was Lullabies to Paralize (and it has it's bad moments). I think Nick Oliveri's influence and attitude is sorely missed.
And for the record: Kyuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> QOTSA.
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Oh I'm not saying either but they were the first band to wear ripped jeans, t-shirts and flannels. I'm not saying they were hair metal or grunge, they were their own in a time of hair metal.
I think they were just realistic and knew that they weren't pretty enough to go the usual hair metal style :lol
I was a Tesla fan from early on - totally obscure band in Australia and I never realised how big they were in the US until I wiki'd them a few years back and saw the chart positions etc...
:lol
We played their first album all the time while playing tackle football. Dumb early 20 something kids being manly with no damn pads to play.
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Oh I'm not saying either but they were the first band to wear ripped jeans, t-shirts and flannels. I'm not saying they were hair metal or grunge, they were their own in a time of hair metal.
I think they were just realistic and knew that they weren't pretty enough to go the usual hair metal style :lol
I was a Tesla fan from early on - totally obscure band in Australia and I never realised how big they were in the US until I wiki'd them a few years back and saw the chart positions etc...
:lol
We played their first album all the time while playing tackle football. Dumb early 20 something kids being manly with no damn pads to play.
And...there is a problem with that?
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Alex Lifeson's guest solo in Porcupine Trees Anesthetize is terrible. It's especially bad coming from a man who writes great solos.
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Oh I'm not saying either but they were the first band to wear ripped jeans, t-shirts and flannels. I'm not saying they were hair metal or grunge, they were their own in a time of hair metal.
I think they were just realistic and knew that they weren't pretty enough to go the usual hair metal style :lol
I was a Tesla fan from early on - totally obscure band in Australia and I never realised how big they were in the US until I wiki'd them a few years back and saw the chart positions etc...
:lol
We played their first album all the time while playing tackle football. Dumb early 20 something kids being manly with no damn pads to play.
And...there is a problem with that?
Not in my 20's. Now, I would be in traction for a month.
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Alex Lifeson's guest solo in Porcupine Trees Anesthetize is terrible. It's especially bad coming from a man who writes great solos.
I always forget he wrote a solo for the song. I think I know which one, but it sound so odd, that I forget it's him. I do love the song though.
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The song is great but that solo is really bad.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
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I find Deadhead by Devin Townsend overrated. It's pretty good, but the amount of love it gets astounds me.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
I'll check it out but In Rainbows didn't do it for me and I didn't bother with King Of Limbs as I heard even Radiohead fans didn't like it.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
"Mom, this is the best liver and artichokes you've made since I was in high school!"
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Ziltoid The Omniscient is my favourite Devin Townsend album.
Z2 was poor by comparison imo.
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Ziltoid The Omniscient is my favourite Devin Townsend album.
Z2 was poor by comparison imo.
I think Devin has a big potential to split opinion more than most as his music is so diverse. I don't hate any of his albums but some are just perfect for me whilst others are..........less so.
As I mentioned in the Dev thread I think I prefer the Live at The Royal Albert Hall version of Z2 to the studio. It's so good. I love ZTO but I just love most of Dev's albums more.
But anyone who DOESN'T like Dev, they are being too controversial!!
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I'm not keen on ALL his stuff. I really liked Addicted! too.
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I don't like Dev.
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I like some of his stuff, but i find the ziltoid records too silly to listen.
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But anyone who DOESN'T like Dev, they are being too controversial!!
I like HIM, on principle, because I like his approach, his flexibility, and his talent, but honestly there is very little of his music that I have heard that makes me say "Whoa, I want to hear this again and again!".
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I liked the more serious side of Devin back when he made really great albums like Ocean Machine and Terria, but after albums like Ziltoid and Deconstruction, whenever I think of Devy I think of fart sounds, quirky "haha this is so funny" lyrics and almost making a joke parody of how silly prog metal can be.
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I liked the more serious side of Devin back when he made really great albums like Ocean Machine and Terria, but after albums like Ziltoid and Deconstruction, whenever I think of Devy I think of fart sounds, quirky "haha this is so funny" lyrics and almost making a joke parody of how silly prog metal can be.
4
True, there should be a distinction between Dev using humor as a means of getting across an actually interesting message of self reflection and introspection, vs. humor for sake of being silly. I would lump both Ziltoid and Deconstruction (mostly just the song and TMM) in the former, and Z2 in the latter.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
"Mom, this is the best liver and artichokes you've made since I was in high school!"
Artichokes are awesome.
[/controversial opinion]
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
"Mom, this is the best liver and artichokes you've made since I was in high school!"
What's that supposed to mean? :lol
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
"Mom, this is the best liver and artichokes you've made since I was in high school!"
Artichokes are awesome.
[/controversial opinion]
Don't know 'bout artichokes but I like liver :tup
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A Moon Shaped Pool is definitely better than the albums pre-Kid A but doesn't quite live up to the Kid A/Amnesiac/In Rainbows level, but it's close.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is definitely better than the albums pre-Kid A but doesn't quite live up to the Kid A/Amnesiac/In Rainbows level, but it's close.
It's not as good as Amnesiac ?
I'm out. :neverusethis:
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I like Dev because he pokes fun at all the bullshit that surrounds us in every aspect of modern life.
When he makes "humorous" songs/albums I always take it more as a social commentary than trying to be funny. I see it as all part of his journey breaking free of the restrictions of being perceived as "metal" in his Strapping days.
I love him for that.
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A Moon Shaped Pool is Radiohead's best album since OK Computer.
"Mom, this is the best liver and artichokes you've made since I was in high school!"
Artichokes are awesome.
[/controversial opinion]
Agreed!
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(https://feelafraidcomic.com/comics/2010-08-26-imho.png)
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Illumination Theory is the second best epic by DT, Octavarium being #1!!
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I really don't like Illumination Theory.
But I like it a lot more than A Change Of Seasons.
Octavarium is easily the best though, yeah.
I'd actually put The Count Of Tuscany above both I.T & A.C.O.S
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I really don't like Illumination Theory.
But I like it a lot more than A Change Of Seasons.
Octavarium is easily the best though, yeah.
I'd actually put The Count Of Tuscany above both I.T & A.C.O.S
Yep, I'm not a huge fan of ACoS. I really like TCoT but I'd rank it lower than IT, but not by much.
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I think I.T. is too disjointed - there's too many riffs in too short a time.
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I think I.T. is too disjointed - there's too many riffs in too short a time.
Maybe but the high points in that song just do it for me big time.
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A Change of Seasons used to be my favorite DT song. Not it's not, and it is tied with Octavarium for the best epic. I like them both much more than IT.
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Octavarium is just perfect from 0:00 to 24:00 for my money.
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A CHANGE OF SEASONS:
The "Please Don't Go" original demo is much better musically/composition-wise (including LaBrie's screeching highest of high falsettos) than the re-arranged/re-recorded version that came out on the 1995 EP.
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I legit can't remember what IT sounds like outside of the strings bit and I only remember that because it's half plagiarized :V
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I legit can't remember what IT sounds like outside of the strings bit and I only remember that because it's half plagiarized :V
Floor tom roll intro into not quite Six Degrees main theme. Then a succession of guitar pull off - hammer on riffs in that sacrificed sons vein.
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I really don't like Illumination Theory.
But I like it a lot more than A Change Of Seasons.
Octavarium is easily the best though, yeah.
I'd actually put The Count Of Tuscany above both I.T & A.C.O.S
1: 8VM (my favorite song of all time)
2: TCoT
3: ACoS
4: SDoIT
5: IT
6: ItPoE
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I really don't like Illumination Theory.
But I like it a lot more than A Change Of Seasons.
Octavarium is easily the best though, yeah.
I'd actually put The Count Of Tuscany above both I.T & A.C.O.S
1: 8VM (my favorite song of all time)
2: TCoT
3: ACoS
4: SDoIT
5: IT
6: ItPoE
1. Octavarium. My favourite DT song and Album.
2. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
3. In The Name Of God
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory
7.A Change Of Seasons
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prog sucks
-
such edge, wow
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Music is overrated
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I guess at this point this is probably a controversial opinion:
Haken's Affinity is not in my top 15 albums of the year anymore.
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Not sure how controversial this is, but I consider Death Magnetic to be Metallica's 2nd worst album.
And after watching the really entertaining 2 hour making of docu, where it's clear that just about every aspect of every song was decided by committee, it helped solidify my opinion that it's soulless and completely uninspired.
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I guess at this point this is probably a controversial opinion:
Haken's Affinity is not in my top 15 albums of the year anymore.
i don't have enough 2016 albums to have enough to kick it out of my top 15 yet but i don't really see why people are freaking out over it so much, it's a fine album but only their third best album, realistically. out of four. so yeah
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Yep. The Mountain > Aquarius > Affinity > Visions :corn
I think I liked it more when it got released because of the concert hype but I have never felt the need to keep listening to it after that show to be honest, don't even know when I played a song from the album for the last time. I definitely know at least 15 great albums from this year that surpass it, but maybe even 20.
The real question though is Affinity or The Astonishing? Those are pretty closely matched for me
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My cat's obnoxious meowing > Haken
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Loveless is a really great album but overall I like Slowdive, Ride and Lush more than I like My Bloody Valentine.
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Not sure how controversial this is, but I consider Death Magnetic to be Metallica's 2nd worst album.
And after watching the really entertaining 2 hour making of docu, where it's clear that just about every aspect of every song was decided by committee, it helped solidify my opinion that it's soulless and completely uninspired.
Agree. Load and Reload are much better.
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Not sure how controversial this is, but I consider Death Magnetic to be Metallica's 2nd worst album.
And after watching the really entertaining 2 hour making of docu, where it's clear that just about every aspect of every song was decided by committee, it helped solidify my opinion that it's soulless and completely uninspired.
Doesn't it depend on who the "committee" is? I didn't see the doc, but if it's a committee of James, Lars, Kirk, and Robert, or even Bob Rock, that's not really grounds to say "soulless". If the "committee" is the PR guy, and John Kalodner John Kalodner, and the lawyer, and some DJ from Sirius Metalhead Radio, and Eddie Trunk, etc., then I agree. Then it's just pandering.
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Loveless is a really great album but overall I like Slowdive, Ride and Lush more than I like My Bloody Valentine.
Not really into that genre but I love Lush.
I guess at this point this is probably a controversial opinion:
Haken's Affinity is not in my top 15 albums of the year anymore.
i don't have enough 2016 albums to have enough to kick it out of my top 15 yet but i don't really see why people are freaking out over it so much, it's a fine album but only their third best album, realistically. out of four. so yeah
That's probably accurate for me too, although I think I even prefer Visions to it.
Affinity and The Astonishing are difficult to compare because they're so different. Affinity probably has more replay value but I also admire DT's boldness to do an album like The Astonishing.
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I think I.T. is too disjointed - there's too many riffs in too short a time.
Maybe but the high points in that song just do it for me big time.
I completely agree with both of these positions. I found it offputting at first because it is so disjointed and has too many different things going on, especially the middle section killing the flow of the song. But the good parts are just SO good that I have come to love it.
I don't like Dev.
I'm right there with you.
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Death Magnetic > Ride the Lightning
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Thrash is so boring.
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prog sucks
Even if you're not serious, I'm going to pretend you are and use this as proof that not all heroes wear capes.
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Death Magnetic > Ride the Lightning
Well there's no Escape or Trapped Under ice on DM.
But Ride has better production.
And it has Fight Fire. Creeping Death. Ktulu. Bells. Ride The Lightning. Fade.
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prog sucks
Even if you're not serious, I'm going to pretend you are and use this as proof that not all heroes wear capes.
For the most part he is entirely correct. Prog is a genre with great potential, but it is usually mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism.
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prog sucks
Even if you're not serious, I'm going to pretend you are and use this as proof that not all heroes wear capes.
For the most part he is entirely correct. Prog is a genre with great potential, but it is usually mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism.
Yeah, I don't disagree. But the majority of pretty much any genre is boring, so I'm not sure why prog is being singled out.
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Because when any other genre is boring, it gets to its boring point a whole lot faster. When prog is boring, you have to wait a lot longer to get to the end to realized that you shouldn't have listened to it.
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prog sucks
Even if you're not serious, I'm going to pretend you are and use this as proof that not all heroes wear capes.
For the most part he is entirely correct. Prog is a genre with great potential, but it is usually mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism.
Yeah, I don't disagree. But the majority of pretty much any genre is boring, so I'm not sure why prog is being singled out.
Cause people like being contrarian. You're not going to get much of a reaction on here if you said most of Country is boring or something.
Personally I don't find prog much better or worse than any other genre. There's so much stuff out there that trying to blanket statement it is usually naive.
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Any genre can get stale if your musical taste change. Not that any of this is right or wrong but some people love a certain style of music or a band not to change it's style and they are ok, others are consistently looking for something now that grips them musically.
Both are ok.
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Because when any other genre is boring, it gets to its boring point a whole lot faster. When prog is boring, you have to wait a lot longer to get to the end to realized that you shouldn't have listened to it.
:lol True...
Cause people like being contrarian.
...but mostly just this.^
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Nuh-uh.
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Because when any other genre is boring, it gets to its boring point a whole lot faster. When prog is boring, you have to wait a lot longer to get to the end to realized that you shouldn't have listened to it.
My take on it is slightly different. When say punk is bad, it's still ok because the expectations are by no means "high-brow". Not disparaging towards punk in any way, but the "requirements" on it are much less than prog. Prog on the other hand often tries to be the ultimate listening experience, and when that fails, it fails hard.
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Because when any other genre is boring, it gets to its boring point a whole lot faster. When prog is boring, you have to wait a lot longer to get to the end to realized that you shouldn't have listened to it.
My take on it is slightly different. When say punk is bad, it's still ok because the expectations are by no means "high-brow". Not disparaging towards punk in any way, but the "requirements" on it are much less than prog. Prog on the other hand often tries to be the ultimate listening experience, and when that fails, it fails hard.
Yeah, I mean no offense to any prog fans here (after all, I admit I am the occasional prog fan myself), but there's a measure of pretentiousness baked into the genre because it's supposedly "so much more complex and sophisticated than 'normal' music." So when a genre that is claimed by its fans to be categorically superior to all other music ever turns out to be mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism, it sorta takes all the air out of that claim; the fact the music sucks is all the more damaging. Like, insult added to injury.
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^ If this comment was water, I would fucking bathe in it, gleefully. If it was mud and I was a pig, I would get filthy goddamned dirty in it.
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:metalol:
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Yeah, I mean no offense to any prog fans here (after all, I admit I am the occasional prog fan myself), but there's a measure of pretentiousness baked into the genre because it's supposedly "so much more complex and sophisticated than 'normal' music." So when a genre that is claimed by its fans to be categorically superior to all other music ever turns out to be mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism, it sorta takes all the air out of that claim; the fact the music sucks is all the more damaging. Like, insult added to injury.
:hefdaddy
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Because when any other genre is boring, it gets to its boring point a whole lot faster. When prog is boring, you have to wait a lot longer to get to the end to realized that you shouldn't have listened to it.
My take on it is slightly different. When say punk is bad, it's still ok because the expectations are by no means "high-brow". Not disparaging towards punk in any way, but the "requirements" on it are much less than prog. Prog on the other hand often tries to be the ultimate listening experience, and when that fails, it fails hard.
Yeah, I mean no offense to any prog fans here (after all, I admit I am the occasional prog fan myself), but there's a measure of pretentiousness baked into the genre because it's supposedly "so much more complex and sophisticated than 'normal' music." So when a genre that is claimed by its fans to be categorically superior to all other music ever turns out to be mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism, it sorta takes all the air out of that claim; the fact the music sucks is all the more damaging. Like, insult added to injury.
Unfortunately, I know very few prog fans who use those words to describe it. Most of those that do are the type that only discovered Dream Theater a few days ago and have forgotten every other band they listened to and will only listen to bands that measure up to them. Using that definition in any way to portray the genre in a negative light is like using Prometheus as an example of why it's a bad idea to steal anything.
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Yeah, I mean no offense to any prog fans here (after all, I admit I am the occasional prog fan myself), but there's a measure of pretentiousness baked into the genre because it's supposedly "so much more complex and sophisticated than 'normal' music." So when a genre that is claimed by its fans to be categorically superior to all other music ever turns out to be mired in uninspired, derivative pseudo-intellectualism, it sorta takes all the air out of that claim; the fact the music sucks is all the more damaging. Like, insult added to injury.
What about, crazy idea here, people that just like prog music but don't feel any of that other stuff? :lol
But seriously though, I like some prog, I don't like some prog, but that doesn't mean I think that music is somehow "categorically superior" to other music.
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Super Dude is pretty much on point though. It's not the case with all prog fans, but I've seen a lot of them pull the "it's a better genre because technical skill YO" argument. And it's not that weird given the nature of the genre. Fans of every genre think their genre is the best, but with prog you have that extra element of the music being more technically difficult to execute, so there's that.
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Unfortunately, I know very few prog fans who use those words to describe it.
To be fair, of course no prog fan is going to describe it that way. All of us think we're better than everyone else at something, but we'd be fairly socially inept to go around actually saying it out loud to everyone.
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Unfortunately, I know very few prog fans who use those words to describe it.
To be fair, of course no prog fan is going to describe it that way. All of us think we're better than everyone else at something, but we'd be fairly socially inept to go around actually saying it out loud to everyone.
And yet... some people try.
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Unfortunately, I know very few prog fans who use those words to describe it.
To be fair, of course no prog fan is going to describe it that way. All of us think we're better than everyone else at something, but we'd be fairly socially inept to go around actually saying it out loud to everyone.
I don't think social ineptitude has anything to do with it. I'm pretty socially inept, but I also won't go around making an ass of myself by making wide-eyed claims such as, "my music is better than yours because we play in 99/64 time and have 49 minute epics." Though, I've met enough people like that to understand why people mock prog fans. I think it's more about making others feel inferior or maybe it's an insecurity issue with themselves. I guess you could put that under the umbrella of social ineptitude if you really wanted to debate it, but when I think social ineptitude, I think of someone like myself who has terrible social anxiety and is fully introverted and tends to avoid most social gatherings.
To me, I find it to be a more interesting genre because of how some of the musicians try and explore new territory. It could be the most simplest piece of music, but something so beautiful and endearing. Vinny from Anathema said it best. He doesn't understand why so many bands call themselves progressive bands when they essentially make the same music over and over.
I'd rather listen to something different, if it's good of course. I've probably tried to explore more new prog bands than most people here, so I can unequivocally say there's a lot of crap out there. Prog does not always equal good or mind-blowing or even complex.
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Prog ebbs and flows; opinions on it wax and wane.
It was big in the 70s, and bad throughout the 80s. It coalesced again in the 90s, and reached its peak in the 00s before tailspining hard again.
The 10's seem to be a period where prog is mostly considered "not cool", and while there are a couple of artists making interesting progressive music, there's no one out there really leading the genre to where it needs to go next. These days, it's more controversial to like prog.
It'll be back.
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I like my music like my bitches. I want to sample it all.
Now, all I got is music. :lol
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I like my music like my bitches. I want to sample it all.
Now, all I got is music. :lol
I like my music like my bitches. Stored on my computer in high quality. :blob:
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Funny, it's the same standard for your Asian porn. I am noticing a trend.
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That's what I meant. What other form of bitches is there? :neverusethis:
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I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.
It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.
But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.
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That's what I meant. What other form of bitches is there? :neverusethis:
I completely misread your post so I basically repeated what you already said. :lol
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Prog rock is an easy target. It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion. He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz. Psych!!
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I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.
It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.
But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.
I agree with this assessment completely. The last wave of really good heavy hitters in prog (DT, PT, Opeth, Pain of Salvation, Devin Townsend, Transatlantic, BTBAM, the list goes on...) all seem to have peaked creatively between, say, '99-'04. After that we got a few new decent bands, such as The Dear Hunter, and we also got Djent which is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but mostly a dead end for the genre. I don't really think we've seen what "the future" or prog looks like, but I do think it's fair to say that we're in an extended down period where the last gen of artists are still putting out some decent albums, but there's not really new that captivates the way those bands once did.
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Prog rock is an easy target. It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion. He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz. Psych!!
I think it's this attitude by prog fans that believe it's the equivalent of the kid that aces every single test that makes it such an easy target. Sorry. :lol
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Prog rock is an easy target. It's like the class geek-whiz who raises his hand for every question yelling "ooh ooh pick me!" and aces every single test, including the extra credit portion. He will get picked on and sniggered at to no end by the rest of the class, but god forbid if he gets an answer wrong or fails a pop quiz. Psych!!
I think it's this attitude by prog fans that believe it's the equivalent of the kid that aces every single test that makes it such an easy target. Sorry. :lol
:biggrin: Well, if you're talking about prog from the standpoint of its fans, then probably yes. I was thinking more in terms of the bands themselves and equating the players in prog bands to class whizzes. If you get 5 guys in a band who have gone to music conservatories like Juilliard/Berklee and gotten training in classical, jazz and whatnot, they will likely be able to play circles around 90% of the average-joe musicians out there, not to mention the punk rocker that just picked up his instrument a week ago. So their musical aspirations might lead them to make the utmost use of their technical skill and formal training by creating something more than garage rock.
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They'll be able to play circles around everyone else, yes, but it's unlikely they'll ever be headlining in big arenas.
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It also doesn't mean they'll do anything interesting or new. I think that was the point, a lot of these uber technical bands fall into the trap of sounding like every other uber technical band. Eventually (assuming you like it to begin with) it just gets boring.
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The Astonishing is by far DT's weakest album since Black Clouds, and DT12 their best since as well.
Atom Heart Mother is a top 5 Pink Floyd album.
While I appreciate what they're doing, Death Grips are a bit of a one-note group and I don't really get the crazy amount of praise they keep getting.
I've said it before, but: Souvlaki > Loveless.
Illinois by Sufjan Steven is an incredibly front-loaded record, and loses its steam way too quickly.
My tastes are basic as hell though, so I'm not sure how many more of these I got.
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I think most of the interesting prog these days is happening in the underground of the genre, artists like David Maxim Micic, Leprous (I don't dig them tho), Bent Knee, Thank You Scientist, Obsidian Kingdom, Gazpacho, and even Anathema I'd argue, they all bring something new to the table, even if not completely revolutionary. Hell, even Bowie's Blackstar is more progressive than a big chunk of the genre from the last years.
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Controversial :
Out of ALL of Dream Theater's album - The Astonishing is DEFINITELY their most recent.
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Controversial :
Out of ALL of Dream Theater's album - The Astonishing is DEFINITELY their most recent.
Rule #12: Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated. Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.
Further posts like yours will not be tolerated.
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:emo:
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Sorry. Someone hacked my account. I think it was Ariich. Or maybe Nick.
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Prog ebbs and flows; opinions on it wax and wane.
It was big in the 70s, and bad throughout the 80s. It coalesced again in the 90s, and reached its peak in the 00s before tailspining hard again.
The 10's seem to be a period where prog is mostly considered "not cool", and while there are a couple of artists making interesting progressive music, there's no one out there really leading the genre to where it needs to go next. These days, it's more controversial to like prog.
It'll be back.
This is a much more interesting discussion than "lol prog sux". I think every genre has an ebb and flow. A more recent example is Hip Hop which was great in the late 80s/early 90s, declined a bit afterwards and is currently experiencing a renaissance not that much unlike Prog in the late 80s/early 90s.
As for the state of Prog, I mostly agree with your assessment although I would say the peak was sometime in the 90s and it's been a hard decline for quite some time since. Prog metal is starting to be accepted again but without the grandeur of stuff like Dream Theater. It's more direct and aggressive stuff with a technical edge. Almost more like early 90s Death Metal than prog.
Prog rock on the other hand still has some major issues to work out.
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I feel like Progressive Rock/Metal has been in a stand still for the last decade or so, because there's nothing really new or exciting going on. The big names of the genre, whether it's Steven Wilson, Opeth, Pain of Salvation or even Dream Theater are mostly re-treading ground they've either done before themselves, or their favorite bands from the 70s did. The most recent direction I could think of that Prog has gone in is Djent, and say what you want about the genre (I like some and dislike some), it's really not a subgenre with a lot of depth or variety to it. Once you get through Periphery, Tesseract and Animals as Leaders, it becomes clear that Djent is already in a bit of a stand still.
It would be great if we got that one incredible prog rock album that put the genre on the map, for people who aren't necessarily prog fans to begin with. If you look at the big breakthrough albums of recent years, something like Sunbather by Deafheaven, which got non-metalheads digging music with blastbeats and screams, or Death Grips who became a hit with people who weren't necessarily into hip hop/rap (because their music incorporates so much else too), I think Prog needs that one band to reinvent it again for these modern times.
But I also feel like those of us who like prog rock already have no problems with certain bands staying the same or not pushing forward to break new limits. I think the "problems" become more clear if you look at prog with a looking glass from the outside, when it becomes clear that nothing has really happened in a while to shake things up.
I follow this to a point, but I also think there are enough artists combining progressive rock with other genres, to keep the genre interesting. Janelle Monae or Kimbra for example, or Fjokra especially still hold intrigue for what lies ahead.
I think if Fjokra ever starts to put out more studio work, as opposed to giving attention to other areas of interest like film, collaborations, etc, potentially he/the group could be something new. Now, Fjokra may release an amazing album, or maybe 2 or 3, but the interest and attention that those albums receive may not go as far as they could. I think part of that is the fact Fjokra includes some hip-hop and almost combines too many genres for their own good. But it's not purely like something Mr.Bungle or Devin Townsend has done in that the music Fjokra's made still is melodic and has some traditional pop song structures. Much like Kimbra in that sense. But I just wonder if they'll receive enough of the right exposure to catch on more than a lot of the underground highly obscure artists, even among a lot of the progressive rock scene.
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I was never impressed with the technicality of Prog bands. Suspyre started as a Progressive Power Metal band with great music and melodies. Then with their next album on onwards, they decided to get all jazzy and technical for the sake of technical, and they lost me. Bands that are basically the instrumental section of Outcry with words are boring as fuck. I'll take the derivative Circus Maximus Dream Theater clones all day over the melodyless "Math Metal" bands.
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Oh shit, I didn't realize anyone actually responded to my post, sorry about that. In reply, basically what Zantera, Coz and Adami said.
I actually came to post another controversial opinion: Migrant is not only a severely underrated album, but before Act IV rolled around, there were some tracks on that first half that blew the Acts out of the water.
Also just to emphasize, Zantera is absolutely right: prog needs a Death Grips or Deafheaven.
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Also just to emphasize, Zantera is absolutely right: prog needs a Death Grips or Deafheaven.
It already had it. It's come and gone. It was called The Mars Volta.
I remember a lot of kids who wouldn't have touched prog with a barge pole who were like pigs in shit with TMV when they came out.
When Deloused in the Comatorium hit, NME (the magazine that were at the time celebrating the Strokes as the second coming of Christ) were all over it. They did a "Was prog really a steaming pile of crap like we always tell you to believe?" article and talked about prog albums you can listen to and keep your cool cred. Sure, it's a music mag, they were in all likelihood the shepherd following the sheep, but it was The Mars Volta that saw them do it.
Frances the Mute had the same effect. I remember reading of it having "rewritten the musical vocabulary we think with" or something to that effect. I played L'Via L'Viaquez to a bunch of friends when it came out and their jaws dropped. They were like (paraphrasing) "there is no way this is the same style as that stale academic shite you often listen to. These motherfuckers have had their punch spiked".
My brother was a dyed in the wool Nirvana-or-death grunge child growing up. He used to delight in the story that Kurt Cobain and Krist Novoselic once played a Yes record, laughed themselves silly, and smashed it to pieces. That little anecdote was The Gospel on Prog to him. (Never mind the fact that Cobain loved King Crimson, apparently). Even he was receptive of The Mars Volta. I recall him coming around once and I had DT or whatever on and him actually saying, "if we're gonna be listening to prog, can it at least be TMV?"
To a lot of people not of the prog crowd, those first two TMV albums were the genre's eureka moment. For a brief while, a slightly larger pool of people were willing to not treat it like a dirty word you would rather die than associate yourself with, which I think is as good as it's ever gonna get.
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When I read people saying a style of music is tiring to them and it's at a stand still many others will disagree. Fans say this about bands directly. What we never say is that our tastes change over time. While we loved a certain style of music, another style or mixes of styles get us jacked about music.
Our tastes evolve just like music and while some my not like a style anymore others are happy staying with the style. It's all in that one listener.
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I'm not saying you're not right about changing tastes - hell, I can't listen to metal anymore as a result - but there are plenty of external signs of prog's decline.
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You can say that about all music but I see bands still making a living. I'm not sure it's declined. I think it's just a certain limit to getting fans. I can point out so many prog mucus I love. Yet, my taste in prog has changed multiple times over the years.
I just love music. I'm happy to say that. My wallet, not so much.
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Music tastes definitely change but as someone who listens to a lot of genres, it becomes clear pretty easily when certain genres are blooming and when others are falling behind. Sure it's subjective, but that's how I see it. There is some music I listened to when I was younger that I grew out of liking that much, but prog has always been one of the favorite genres, and I still enjoy certain albums, it just feels like there hasn't happened much since The Mars Volta shook up things.
It's not necessarily the old bands playing it safe and doing their same old thing, but there hasn't been those new and exciting bands that go outside the formula either.
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I think genres also change so the program you say is stale is evolving to something new. I think that's a fact for all styles. Bands that last for decades adapt yet still sound like the band you know.
Like you said Jimmy, it's all subjective.
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My controversial opinion: guns n roses is the most overrated band in the history of hard rock.
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I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.
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I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.
Thank you.
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You're quite welcome.
As iconic as Appetite is, The Illusion albums display genius and brilliance. What a f'n waste.
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I don't think that's controversial at all. But they were indeed a great band, but only for a flash. So much potential. Musically, they were underachievers.
Thank you.
They're definitely ONE of the most overrated bands.
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I think most of the interesting prog these days is happening in the underground of the genre, artists like David Maxim Micic, Leprous (I don't dig them tho), Bent Knee, Thank You Scientist, Obsidian Kingdom, Gazpacho, and even Anathema I'd argue, they all bring something new to the table, even if not completely revolutionary. Hell, even Bowie's Blackstar is more progressive than a big chunk of the genre from the last years.
This is a post I can agree with, although I don't really think you can consider Leprous 'underground' anymore, after their EU and USA headline tours that draw hundreds of people each night. 'Underground' would be the Obsidian Kingdom / Shining / Intronaut gig I went to last week, that had less than 80 people in attendance.
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I can point out so many prog mucus I love.
you should probably see a doctor about that prog mucus
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Subtly telling us that prog makes him sick?
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I can point out so many prog mucus I love.
you should probably see a doctor about that prog mucus
:lol
All prog is mucus to me.
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o/
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\o
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They'll be able to play circles around everyone else, yes, but it's unlikely they'll ever be headlining in big arenas.
This post is basically true with regards to prog as it stands today, but it got me thinking that it is absolutely mind-boggling that at one point in time, prog acts like Yes, Genesis, Tull and ELP were headlining big arenas on a regular basis.
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I think it's just mind boggling of the concept of Arena Tours. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many, save for a few super popular acts.
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:lol
That too. Sometimes I want groin music, sometimes I want head music(Not that one Coz, that's groin music :lol)
Now let others have fun with this post. :biggrin:
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My controversial opinion: guns n roses is the most overrated band in the history of hard rock.
That would ACTUALLY be either Radiohead or Red Hot Chili Peppers, but I see your point.
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They'll be able to play circles around everyone else, yes, but it's unlikely they'll ever be headlining in big arenas.
This post is basically true with regards to prog as it stands today, but it got me thinking that it is absolutely mind-boggling that at one point in time, prog acts like Yes, Genesis, Tull and ELP were headlining big arenas on a regular basis.
That's what I grew up on. When I was in high school, almost every band I listened to came - either as an opening act or a headliner - to the New Haven Coliseum or the Hartford Civic Center (the two arenas near me). It was a regular occurrence. Prog, metal, hard rock you name it.
(Though I should point out that both Yes - when they were still prog, I might add - and Genesis - when they morphed to a slightly more pop sound - both regularly did STADIA.)
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GNR had a lot of potential, but I feel they are often rated based on what they could've achieved rather than what they actually achieved. Appetite is a classic but everything else is uneven at best. They could've been one of the greatest hard rock bands, but they let drama and ego get in the way.
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You can say that about all music but I see bands still making a living. I'm not sure it's declined. I think it's just a certain limit to getting fans. I can point out so many prog mucus I love. Yet, my taste in prog has changed multiple times over the years.
WTF :rollin
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It's mucus that lasts a half hour. :lol
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And everyone is trying to avoid you because of it.
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There's more good music now than ever before, you just have to look a lot harder for it.
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I was never impressed with the technicality of Prog bands. Suspyre started as a Progressive Power Metal band with great music and melodies. Then with their next album on onwards, they decided to get all jazzy and technical for the sake of technical, and they lost me. Bands that are basically the instrumental section of Outcry with words are boring as fuck. I'll take the derivative Circus Maximus Dream Theater clones all day over the melodyless "Math Metal" bands.
Missed a lot of this discussion and I know I'm jumping on an older post, but I just want to say I agree with this (except I'm not specifically familiar with Suspyre). Melody is the most important thing to me, way more important than the style of music being different or innovative. Seriously just toss me a Transatlantic or Circus Maximus record any day over something that's new and "inventive" but devoid of melody.
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:lol (at the mucus)
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:lol (at the mucus)
Brent, this is the post your controversial opinions thread. My spelling isn't controversial. It's expected. :lol