NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?

[bosk1]

So this story came out of Bleach Report. Reportedly several Cavs players are "highly agitated" by Curry's squat right after KD made that lead changing 3... I don't get it, but why is that squat offensive? 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2714680-cavaliers-players-reportedly-highly-agitated-over-stephen-currys-game-3-squat

Anything to stir up a controversy. 

#fakenews

[TheOutlawXanadu]

There was an article that came out a few months back about how a lot of high-profile NBA players don't like Curry. Whether it's his demeanor, his rapid rise to fame, whatever... I find this interesting, because living in North Carolina, I've spoken with a lot of people who knew Steph growing up, and I've never heard anyone say a bad word about him.

[Samsara]

Regarding Jordan vs. Lebron or any of that -- different eras, different ways to play the game.

Here's the thing though -- if you watched Jordan, he was able to play three different positions on the court. PG, SG, SF. And he did, regularly.

James can play all FIVE.

However, Jordan is clearly the better defender, in an era where defense was prominent. In addition, Jordan was a better pure scorer, worked himself into a better shooter (by the end he was deadly). James is not a reliable shooter, and he's not a pure scorer. Jordan was also a GREAT passer. But he preferred to score. In fact, he was a better passer, IMO, than James.

James is bigger, and because he can play all five positions in today's NBA (back if he played then, he couldn't be a center), he's a better rebounder than Jordan.

There's no denying just how great Lebron James is. He is an all-time, top-10, perhaps top-5 player in NBA history. Of that there is absolutely no doubt.

But he's not near Jordan...in the slightest. James' numbers may get high, but that's going to be because of longevity. James is going to play at a high level for at least another five, six years. He's conditioned himself to do that. And I firmly believe he'll win another couple of titles -- just not with Cleveland, and not as the primary option.

But make no mistake -- King James is one of the most talented players to ever step foot on an NBA court, and is an all-time great. But the comparisons to Jordan need to stop. The comparisons to Magic need to stop. James is who he is, for his era. In his era, he's the best. But once you stack him alongside the guys that transcended the game, you see he's not quite there. Even James himself knows it. He's trying to get the numbers and rings to make himself feel like he did all that. But he still has a way to go.

For my money:

Jordan
Wilt (most dominant)
Magic
Dr. J
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
James
Gervin
Baylor

>>>>That's obviously my top-10, and is completely subjective. James is in there at #8, and still has a lot to go in his career. If he had a great finish after this season, I could see him getting up to #4, which is, pretty damn impressive.

Anyway, James is incredible. But he's not quite near the top of the mountain. Even if the Cavs win tonight, they aren't coming back from 3-0. The Warriors are almost toying with them. Durant -- Durant has a long way to go, to get to James' level. Durant hasn't won a thing, and I think really needs to come up in big moments to be near Lebron.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Great post. I personally think that you're underrating James, but like you said, it's all fun and subjective. I've never taken the time to rank the best players, but I wouldn't have him any lower than third. His combination of statistical production, individual accomplishments, and longevity is almost unheard of.

On a side note, I just realized that I've posted like ten times today. I need a short break.

[KevShmev]

Magic shouldn't be compared to James; James has already blown by him. The only thing in Magic's favor at this point is rings (all of which he needed Kareem to get). James is a better scorer, passer (better than MJ, too), defender and rebounder. Magic wasn't even the best player of his era; Bird was.

Comparisons to Jordan are odd since they are such different players.

[TAC]

More fake news!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-lonzo-ball-underwhelms-lakers-during-workout/ar-BBCnqnF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

[Ryzee]

Yes Magic especially needed Kareem to be hurt during the 1980 finals so he could start at center as a rookie.  Laker haters gonna hate.

[bosk1]

If the Warriors sweep, Klay Thompson is prepared to buy toasters for the team:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/thompson-has-great-gift-for-warriors-if-they-sweep-cavs/ar-BBBZsEZ?ocid=edgsp

[Nekov]

Magic shouldn't be compared to James; James has already blown by him. The only thing in Magic's favor at this point is rings (all of which he needed Kareem to get). James is a better scorer, passer (better than MJ, too), defender and rebounder. Magic wasn't even the best player of his era; Bird was.

Comparisons to Jordan are odd since they are such different players.

James is not a better passer than Magic, no one is a better passer than Magic. James might be better at driving and kicking the ball out, I will give you that, Magic's awareness of where his team mates were and his skill to deliver them the ball is beyond compare to me.

More fake news!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-lonzo-ball-underwhelms-lakers-during-workout/ar-BBCnqnF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

I don't see the need for the Lakers to make everyone else believe that they're not interested in Lonzo. If you wanted to disorient other teams, wouldn't you say you're super interested in one guy just to make other teams looks elsewhere and then snatch someone no one was expecting?

[Accelerando]

Magic shouldn't be compared to James; James has already blown by him. The only thing in Magic's favor at this point is rings (all of which he needed Kareem to get). James is a better scorer, passer (better than MJ, too), defender and rebounder. Magic wasn't even the best player of his era; Bird was.

Comparisons to Jordan are odd since they are such different players.

James is not a better passer than Magic, no one is a better passer than Magic. James might be better at driving and kicking the ball out, I will give you that, Magic's awareness of where his team mates were and his skill to deliver them the ball is beyond compare to me.

Nailed it.

[KevShmev]

Yes Magic especially needed Kareem to be hurt during the 1980 finals so he could start at center as a rookie.  Laker haters gonna hate.

Huh? My opinion has nothing to do with me not being a Laker fan.

Also, Kareem only missed Game 6 of the '80 Finals, and he was far and away their best player for games 1-5. Are we really going to pretend that Magic didn't need Kareem to win that title (much less four others), just because of one game?

Magic shouldn't be compared to James; James has already blown by him. The only thing in Magic's favor at this point is rings (all of which he needed Kareem to get). James is a better scorer, passer (better than MJ, too), defender and rebounder. Magic wasn't even the best player of his era; Bird was.

Comparisons to Jordan are odd since they are such different players.

James is not a better passer than Magic, no one is a better passer than Magic. James might be better at driving and kicking the ball out, I will give you that, Magic's awareness of where his team mates were and his skill to deliver them the ball is beyond compare to me.

I think it would be fair to say that Magic and James are 1a and 1b, no?  Regardless of who we think is better.  They are definitely the two best passers I've ever seen.  Whoever's in 3rd is a very distant 3rd.

[Accelerando]

WHAT??? Sorry Kev, I can name a few better passers than LeBron other than Magic

Steve Nash
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Isiah Thomas (Not IT4)
Tim Hardaway
Oscar Robertson
Manu Ginobli

Not in any particular order

[Syzzle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EedKXdMzm5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvPbH5DDqpk&t

Yeah no to all of those players being better passers than LeBron

[jingle.boy]

It's not really and equal comparison to make regarding the passing ability of players like MJ, LBJ and Magic to the likes of Stockton, Nash and Kidd.  The former were all around great players, and GOAT Top 10 or 5.  The latter were playmaking/passing specialists.

[bosk1]

Warriors are getting JOBBED by the refs.  I have never seen anything like this in my life.  This is just disgusting.

[Azyiu]

Looks like no sweep is allowed at the Q...

[Syzzle]

Disappointing this Cleveland couldn't have shown up earlier also could have had near 60 points in the 1st QT if they made FT's.

[TAC]

Looks like no sweep is allowed at the Q...

This lead isn't safe.

[KevShmev]

Looks like no sweep is allowed at the Q...

On the one hand, Cleveland is being smart and going at the Warriors and making the refs blow the whistle on mostly easy calls.

On the other hand, they shouldn't be doing quick pass and shoots with James out of the game.  Drain the shot clock down a bit and slow the game down until he is back in.

[TAC]

Warriors are getting JOBBED by the refs.  I have never seen anything like this in my life.  This is just disgusting.

So jobbed that Durant escapes a Double T with some fool on the Cavs' bench.

[bosk1]

My goodness, Irving and Love are knocking EVERYTHING down, no matter how contested.  Just, wow.  Those guys are playing out of their minds.  Gotta give credit for them coming out and playing hard.

[bosk1]

What a complete officiating debacle this game has become.  So, they call two T's on Green.  Then they retroactively take one back and say the first half one was on Kerr.  Man, these two teams are doing something historic with all this scoring, and the refs are making a complete mockery of the game. 

[Azyiu]

Yep, whether you are a Cavs fan or a Warriors fan,  the officiating was a disaster.

In other news, 3 on 3 basketball officially an Olympic sport. Somewhere AI is thinking about a comeback? Lol! 

[KevShmev]

Fortunately, the officiating didn't impact the result of the game, but that was pretty bad overall.  Love gets a flagrant for following through and brushing Durant's head, yet Pachullia punches Shumpert and it's only a double technical?  The botched double technical on Green?  I went to my brother's for the second half and we were laughing at what a shit show the officiating became.

[bosk1]

You didn't see the first half?  It was even worse, Kev, by far.

[KevShmev]

I saw the whole game.  Officiating did not impact the result of the game, as bad as it was at times.

[Jarlaxle]

I'm not a big basketball fan, but I've watched almost the entire finals this year. Is there a precedent in the NBA of a player on the losing team winning finals MVP? LeBron has been far and away the best player on either team, and is the MVP of the series. I know in the NHL they've given MVP to a player on the losing team.

[Syzzle]

Jerry West won Finals MVP in a loss, but he is the only one to do it. LeBron was robbed of Finals MVP in 2015 though because of the NBA and Media's stupidity.

[Cable]

I saw the whole game.  Officiating did not impact the result of the game, as bad as it was at times.

I agree. Even if Green would have been ejected on that terrible second Technical, CLE was still up by double digits, and had been that way for the whole game. Plus CLE missed way too many FTs, so they should have won by at least 30. Regardless, with CLE's shooting, they would have still won if all the bad calls went the other way.

That all said, this just shows how insane the Cavs' Big three had to play to just win. I would be shocked if this goes beyond game five or six.

[TAC]

I saw the whole game.  Officiating did not impact the result of the game, as bad as it was at times.

Right. I didn't see any impact on the game at all.


That said, NBA officiating SUCKS! It BLOWS!

[KevShmev]

That said, NBA officiating SUCKS! It BLOWS!

This 1st quarter is proving that again.  Embarrassing.

[Azyiu]

That said, NBA officiating SUCKS! It BLOWS!

This 1st quarter is proving that again.  Embarrassing.

Agreed... but then the Cavs look way more ready and prepared then the Warriors... the Dubs are still being careless with the ball at times.

[KevShmev]

The officials doing nothing on Durant, when he whacked James in the head with 10 minutes to go in the 2nd and would have been his 3rd foul, was possibly a championship-deciding non-call.  The Warriors have went on a major run since, spearheaded by Durant.  Unfortunate.

[Azyiu]

David West is rightfully T'd up... JR and TT should also got a T each...

[black_biff_stadler]

The Cavs are far more to blame for their predicament. They got their balls chopped off as soon as they lost the lead. Completely abandoned the aggressive style of play that got them the 8 point lead, playing petrified of missing a shot and taking forever to run a play, and the BIGGEST indictment on their character, absolutely refusing to close out on open threes. No less then 9 points of this run are on those. You ALWAYS run out to contest an open 3 unless it's someone that never shoots 3s just trying to milk a pump fake for an easier drive to the hoop.

They've thrown in the towel. Fucking pathetic.