*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[dparrott]

I think we're confusing Through My Words with Through Her Eyes...?

[Progmetty]

Through My Words, the lead in to Fatal Tragedy is the song I mean.

[smegolas]

I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age and they will come to appreciate this magnum opus for what it is: sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

I never thought I would ever be writing those words.  TA is one of those nice little surprises that life sometimes throws your way.

[Enigmachine]

I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age

I'm pretty sure that most of the people who dislike the album are not doing so because of immaturity.

[rab7]

sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?

[smegolas]

I suspect that most of the people who don't like this album are the younger metal guys.  With any luck, their tastes will mature with age

I'm pretty sure that most of the people who dislike the album are not doing so because of immaturity.

That is not what I meant.  Just that most peoples musical tastes broaden as they age, which is what happened to me.  Not calling anyone immature.

[smegolas]

sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?

Unassailable?

[rab7]

sitting at the top of the heap, alongside the previously sacrosanct SFAM.

Why previously sacrosanct? How did The Astonishing make SFAM not sacrosanct?

Unassailable?

Slightly better

[flintdragon]

Love this album so far.  Growing and growing on me though I have to admit, I couldn't get into it until I actually read the story on the main DT site.  Now everything connects so well.  If you haven't read it, I suggest you do it.

Other than the normal complaints of songs too disconnected/short and "why was the awesome solo faded out", I really wish they made the finale "The Astonishing" song even grander.  I view this album just like a broadway musical.  The final song should blow you away by the final note causing you to stand on your feet in applause... and this one didn't.

Anyone else feel like that?

[Sycsa]

So, I finally had the chance to listen to it. Hopefully, it will grow on me as time goes by, as it is indubitably a monumental effort, but it didn't connect with me the first time around. It was quite a chore to get through it, actually.

I never really liked DT's ballads, they often tend to venture into kitschy territory when it comes to their slower songs (especially the choruses) and this album feels like it's 80% ballads. It's just one soft piano intro after the other (make no mistake, I love Jordan's piano playing, but it gets overwhelming here). The snare drum sound sucks again and it has no dynamics. Why? It befuddles me why they put a gated, deep, almost triggered-like snare drum sound on an otherwise versatile and dynamic album. It just begs for a different snare and more dynamic playing. I didn't hear a single different snare hit throughout the entire album, let alone ghost notes, which should be a must for an epic album like this.

On the flip side, Jordan using a real Hammond + Leslie combo is an absolute treat for a keyboard aficionado such as myself. It's something I've been wishing for since I got acquainted with DT in 2005 (and a reason why I would have preferred if Derek had stayed longer) and it's almost surreal to hear those fat, growling organ sounds instead of the usual digital, artificial organ simulation. Even though the piano feels a bit too much (at least for now), Jordan really delivered this time, gotta tip my hat off to him.

Amidst a plethora of forgettable and sometimes downright cheesy melodies (Brother Can You Hear Me instantly struck me as a stinker), there are quite a few good ones too, some surprisingly fresh and intensely virtuoso instrumental passages and spectacular vocal deliveries. There are a lot of moments where I thought "Wow, I've never heard DT play like this before."

MM has some moments where his chops shine through, JP's solos are pleasant as usual, however there wasn't a single moment where I remarked JM's bass. He's virtually non-existent on TA, which is surprising given how prominent his sound was on DT12.

I was quite surprised how much the whole thing plays and feels like a rock opera. When I was a little kid, I starred in a bunch of rock operas, listening to TA instantly brought me back to those days, I was seeing images from that period of my childhood almost all the way through. It was nice to connect to the new album on that nostalgic level. Hopefully, after subsequent listens, it'll connect with my current self as well, because right now, I'm not feeling it. 

[smegolas]

is there a place to find the lyrics (and who's talking) online?  or do you have to buy the CD?  Im listening on apple music. 

also, do people notice a big difference in sound on HD tracks?  (using good headphones or speakers).

[Bertielee]

Feeling it is the important thing, Sycsa. The first time I heard the album, I found it too long, there were too many ballads....Now, I like it a lot. On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.

B.Lee

[Kotowboy]

Apparently there's zero diff between the CD and the HD Tracks.

[ariich]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

[TAC]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

When I was a kid, we learned that a ballad is a song that told a story. How is it that a ballad has evolved into a song that is slow and mellow?

[Sycsa]

On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.
B.Lee

I love MM otherwise, he's one of my all time favorite drummers and huge inspiration to me. I just wish they produced his drums differently. Yeah, there have to be some ghost notes here and there, they even had them on DT12 (on Behind the Veil) and that had way worse drums, but the overall theme here is that the snare just needs more dynamics, especially on an album like this.

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 

[ariich]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

When I was a kid, we learned that a ballad is a song that told a story. How is it that a ballad has evolved into a song that is slow and mellow?

That's actually a really good point. But in truth I even meant slow mellow songs - just because a song opens with a slow piano melody doesn't mean it's a slow song. There are very few ballads, in that sense, on TA.

By the correct definition of ballad, as you rightly point out, the album as a whole is a ballad, as is any other rock opera or concept album.

[ariich]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 

This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. But you did say the album was 80% ballads.

[Bertielee]

On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.
B.Lee

I love MM otherwise, he's one of my all time favorite drummers and huge inspiration to me. I just wish they produced his drums differently. Yeah, there have to be some ghost notes here and there, they even had them on DT12 (on Behind the Veil) and that had way worse drums, but the overall theme here is that the snare just needs more dynamics, especially on an album like this.

Oh, OK, I get what you mean and I agree with you.

B.Lee

[Sycsa]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 

This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. But you did say the album was 80% ballads.

I said it feels like that. It's obviously nowhere near that figure 'objectively'. Perhaps I should have elaborated more clearly, what I was gunning for is that the album drags and feels way to slow, at least the first time around. I often found myself thinking that "ok, now a groovy riff must be coming" and I was hit yet again with a piano intro and soft, whispery vocals.

[theseoafs]

The album is very good.  I've only listened to it in full like 5 times which isn't nearly enough for me to feel like "I get it".  There's some excellent stuff here, and some stuff which is essentially filler too.  I could take or leave the concept, and I don't feel the story is awfully interesting, but good on them since it seems to have inspired them.

I need to listen to it more.

[rab7]

final note causing you to stand on your feet in applause... and this one didn't.

Anyone else feel like that?

My first listen, I just there like, "that's it?"

But my second listen at work with earphones, something about "music REIGNS forevermore!" just really resonated within me, and the rest of that last stanza "ETERNALLY IN HARMONY, OUR LIVES WILL BE ASTONISHING AGAIN" was just a huge emotional crescendo and when that final note struck, I pulled out my earphones and just fist pumped. Thank God my cubicle walls are really high.

[rab7]

is there a place to find the lyrics (and who's talking) online?  or do you have to buy the CD?  Im listening on apple music. 

also, do people notice a big difference in sound on HD tracks?  (using good headphones or speakers).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1UUXmvM3xmPa0JUU21UZTVRNTg/view

[Duke1]

3rd listening for me, still loving it. In the top 3 for me with I&W and Scenes. Ironically I find The Astonishing closer to the feel of Transatlantic and Neal Morse with Mike Portnoy, in terms of less "Metal" and more melody / symphonic which I also really love. Great stuff.

[Enigmachine]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

I didn't say that. TA has a bunch of ballads and a bunch of piano intros, they don't necessarily correlate. 

This wasn't directed specifically at you, you were just unlucky to be the latest person to say it that caused me to decide to actually say something. But you did say the album was 80% ballads.

The amount of time the ballads take up is 15:39 (TA, AoF, Chosen, The X Aspect) to 30:59 at a stretch (adding WYTHC, BCYHM, ALLB) on Act 1 and 9:44 (BA, LF, WotW) to 19:14 (adding HoaTV and Astonishing). The pure ballads take up 25:23 of the album and adding the loosely defined ones makes it 50:13. About 19%-38% of ballads on the album from 7-12 tracks. There's a lot more ballad than most / all other DT albums but there isn't really really that much. DT12 has 7%, ADToE has 21%, BCaSL has 7%, SC has 14%, 8vm has 24%, ToT has 4%, SDoIT has 6%, SfaM has 19%, FII has 22%, Awake has 23%, IaW has 12% and WDaDU has 0% (lol).

No real reason for doing that, was just curious.

[pantsofeternity]

Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?

Nope!  I love listening all the way through. 

[Progmetty]

Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?

Nope!  I love listening all the way through. 

Same here.

[Duke1]

Same here...

[pringkaarwanda]

One thing I don't understand - why do people seem to think that piano intros = ballads?

poor people who skip Three Days then... they have skip one of the best song in this album
 

[thunderdog10]

Feeling it is the important thing, Sycsa. The first time I heard the album, I found it too long, there were too many ballads....Now, I like it a lot. On the subject of MM's drumming, I understand it's not your thing. Yet, to say you cannot hear ghost notes is strange because I can hear some very clearly, and I'm not even a musician.

B.Lee

actually according to dr-loudness.com the HD tracks got a lower DR score than the CD.

[pringkaarwanda]

Am I the only one who has not been skipping ANY of the tracks?

Nope!  I love listening all the way through. 

Same here.

Same here... 
I cant even listen The Gift of Music without listen to Descent of NOMACS and Dystopian Overture first 
And I cant listen Moment of Betrayal Without listen 2285 Entr'acte first 

one of the best thing about The Astonishing is you cant just skip song and missing the best feeling ever.
You have to listen song continously... If not, there’ll be hell to pay... And BUG will tear down your home stone by stone...

[DoctorAction]

Was feeling a bit disappointed but a week in and I'm loving TA. So much to absorb (and any DT album takes time to understand) but the positive feeling is all over this. Happy. Best since 6D?

[Peter Mc]

Just a quick question for those obsessed with the sound of the snare and it's lack of dynamics/warmth, triggered/sampled etc etc.

Do you all have a problem listening to Images & Words where it is actually confirmed as being triggered?  Seems to me that this is revered as one of their best albums, if not their actual best album.  Just curious why it doesn't seem to spoil people's enjoyment of that record but people are obsessed with it on the Mangini albums.

[7StringedBeast]

Just a quick question for those obsessed with the sound of the snare and it's lack of dynamics/warmth, triggered/sampled etc etc.

Do you all have a problem listening to Images & Words where it is actually confirmed as being triggered?  Seems to me that this is revered as one of their best albums, if not their actual best album.  Just curious why it doesn't seem to spoil people's enjoyment of that record but people are obsessed with it on the Mangini albums.

People have always criticized I&W's snare drum sound.  However, that sound fits the production of the album and the feel of the music on that album.  It never bothered me.  The reason it gets glossed over more is because it's an old album at this point so everything has been said about it already, and also that the album is so magnificent that getting that picky doesn't make much sense.  It's really not that bad at all.

[erwinrafael]

For those who keep on insisting that the snare has no dynamics. Listen to Losing Faythe. Intently. Hear the ghost notes, in particular. Note the volume of the snare. Then listen to Moment of Betrayal afterwards. Then listen to A New Beginning. If you can still say that the snare played at the same volume in these three songs, then maybe it's just me.