The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Anguyen92]

I had a fun time at the show last night.  Bruce was just as animated and engaging to watch as he would be for Maiden shows and I think the crowd was a solid bunch.  Also, I think he dropped a small tidbit where once he's done with the other solo shows and the Iron Maiden shows throughout the year, he wants to do more solo shows next year across NA.

The main downside of the evening was that it looked like the venue looked really unorganized when it comes to setting up parking.  The way the Observatory works is that there are two designated parking lots.  One that's right next to the building that costs $30.00 and one lot that is 5 min. short and easy walk to that costs $15.00.  The problem is that you had to pay for parking in advance and if you did not, you had to drive back to the lot near the building to pay for it so that you get the slip to put in the car.  Had to wait around 20 minutes around 5 PM (doors opened at 7 PM) before I can sort out parking.  Probably would have been better if I would have just taken the bus to the Observatory and then took a Lyft/Uber home and would have cost just as much as the parking.

Still, I griped about missing an opportunity to get the ticket for less, but for a show like this.  I'm really happy that I attended this show at the price I paid and I'll contemplate seeing Maiden at the Inglewood Forum a little more depending if the right cirumstances are favorable for me.

[Zantera]

I can definitely relate to some of that. There's something special about metal fans that is hard to describe. You see other people with metal shirts and you give each other a glance and an approving nod, it's just like a community really.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

[TAC]

Typical Bruce and his bullshit.

[Stadler]

I can definitely relate to some of that. There's something special about metal fans that is hard to describe. You see other people with metal shirts and you give each other a glance and an approving nod, it's just like a community really.

I say this with respect but only because you're part of that community.  I've seen people with Maiden shirts on and almost always say "nice shirt, bro!" to make that communion.  I was at a show at Great Woods in Mass., and each of the people have a name tag with their first concert ever; one guy had mine: Priest and Maiden in '82. Instant bond.  But here's the thing:  my daughter does the same thing with... go figure, Taylor Swift.  In college, she found a roommate, and now a lasting friend, over their love of Harry Styles. 

Bruce is right to recognize the community he's in, and the specialness of it, but he's a dipshit for failing to recognize there might be other communities he's not part of that are just as special to those participants.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah. That's some high level dumb-fuckery from Bruce, imo.

He could talk about what Maiden means to fans - it means a huge amount to me - but what does that have to do with of Swift or the value of her music to her fans? Nothing. Who would notice if she went away? Millions. Duh. Who would notice if Bruce's last album went away? Almost no-one, relatively.

And I hate football so I don't get that either.

Disappointing.

Having said all that, are we sure he actually said this? Where's the quote from?

[TAC]

Disappointing.

How is it disappointing? He's been spewing his bullshit since the 80's.
And I'm a lifelong Maiden fan.

[DoctorAction]

How is it disappointing? He's been spewing his bullshit since the 80's.
And I'm a lifelong Maiden fan.

Oh. I've not really been aware of it, tbh.

[cramx3]

Typical Bruce and his bullshit.

But yeah, I don't agree with that statement. 

Bruce is right to recognize the community he's in, and the specialness of it, but he's a dipshit for failing to recognize there might be other communities he's not part of that are just as special to those participants.

Totally

And why is he pointing out Taylor Swift? I feel like he could have pointed out some other artists and I may have been like "OK, maybe" but this example is a big wrong for Bruce. 

[jammindude]

Whether he's right or wrong, only time will tell. But pop artists, even the ones at Taylor Swift's level, tend to be more fleeting.

I'm not going to judge her music one way or the other. But I'm getting the impression that she's this generation's Madonna, and where is she now?

"And then there was the time that she performed, and nobody cried for more..." - Duchess by Genesis

Madonna is now completely irrelevant. Even though at one time she was just as important to pop music as TS is now.  That is just the nature of pop music. Pop music tends to be geared towards people who aren't really interested in music with any depth to it.  And that's not to say that that person is shallow. They may get very deep into different interests.  But pop music is fun fluff that they don't have to think about and it provides what that fan needs when they need it. But most of the time, they don't even know what the lyrics are to their favorite song.

Metal fans do tend to be very different in that way. Not better...just different. Maybe more obsessive?? Maybe that's not the right word.  But IMO, Iron Maiden is a more relevant band in the current metal scene than Madonna is to the current pop scene, and that is the nature of pop music and pop culture.

[Zantera]

I agree that Pop stars have a tendency of being "flavor of the month" where they go in and out of fashion more. Someone has the crown for a few years then releases a dud and someone else rises to the throne and picks up. With metal bands I think a lot of fans get very obsessive (not in a bad way) and really sink their teeth into the discography and they will know a lot of details about the songs or albums that might not be of interest to more casual listeners. That's not to say there aren't similarly obsessive fans of other artists because they do exist, but when it comes to metal it seems to go beyond music sometimes and it becomes a lifestyle more than anything else.

[TAC]

The thing is, we see it and live it, but The Four Tops still tour every summer.

[jammindude]

The thing is, we see it and live it, but The Four Tops still tour every summer.

Are they making new music? Are there fans buying that new music? Do their fans follow them around from show to show as they travel across the country? Are they still relevant in the pop music scene of 2024? Are they still held up as icons in the pop community?

[TAC]

Are they making new music? Are there fans buying that new music? Do their fans follow them around from show to show as they travel across the country? Are they still relevant in the pop music scene of 2024? Are they still held up as icons in the pop community?

I don't know, I haven't followed The Four Tops is like forever.

[TAC]

Of course there's this..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/psychologist-says-people-that-listen-to-heavy-metal-think-more-logically-and-are-less-stressed-than-those-who-don-t/ar-AA1ceFXc?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=c3b6c325f14b4ded845b2cb27e72342d&ei=15

[Mosh]

I'll never really understand the superiority complex to pop music that you find in metal circles, particularly around bands that are on the precipice of being pop themselves such as Iron Maiden. Bruce is such a bullshitter that it's hard to look past the obvious pandering, although I've never seen that quote in an actual interview, not sure if it's actually attributable to him but he's said similar things before.

I can see an argument for certain pop music being more fleeting, but I feel like there's a better target for that point than a woman in her 30s who is on a record breaking tour covering a discography that spans 15+ years. Just a dumb take all around.

[Anguyen92]

Regarding that whole discussion of slagging pop stars in an attempt to say "Heavy metal is better because of, blah, blah, blah."  It took a long long long time for me to grasp this, but I just found that taking that tact whether it is fans or musicians making those comments, it's not going to help anyone.  It's not going to bring pop fans into metal.  It's not going to make the band you want to make bigger, bigger or more noticeable.  It just isolates a genre of music that's already very isolated and sometimes, "Us vs Them" mentality these discussions brings just makes the "Us" part look weak.

[TAC]

Well, it feeds into the mentality, like us against them. Trump uses a similar playbook in riling up his constituents.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Pop music is better than Metal so it makes sense that Metal people would be upset about Pop
(Note: metal rules too, pop is still better tho lol)

[DoctorAction]

Pop music is better than Metal so it makes sense that Metal people would be upset about Pop
(Note: metal rules too, pop is still better tho lol)

This isn't an attack, as I think we all sometimes interchange "I like more" and "is better than" (I know I do) but taken literally, that statement has the same fallacy as Bruce's. There isn't a better genre, as there's no agreed definition of quality.

I've enjoyed several times more pop than I have metal over the last decade but it isn't better. Or worse.

[Mosh]

This isn't an attack, as I think we all sometimes interchange "I like more" and "is better than" (I know I do) but taken literally, that statement has the same fallacy as Bruce's. There isn't a better genre, as there's no agreed definition of quality.

For sure. Pure troll posting.

[jammindude]

For sure. Pure troll posting.

Me 3

[wolfking]

I tend to agree with Bruce's sentiments and understand what he means.  I don't think it's smart or fair to single out Taylor Swift at all, that's unprofessional but Bruce doesn't give a fuck, and I guess should he?  But as Bill said, TS has a massive following and community of her own with her fans so singling out like that is silly, but agree that a pop artist like TS isn't going to be relevant in 40 years like Maiden still are now.  I think just the way he's trying to get his point across could have come out in a better way.

[wolfking]

Pop music is better than Metal so it makes sense that Metal people would be upset about Pop
(Note: metal rules too, pop is still better tho lol)

Saying pop music is 'better' is stating a fact.  Can you please give us evidence of said fact?

[jjrock88]

I like what I like and there are countless genres of music that I don't like.  But I'm never ever going to knock someone because of what music they like and listen to.  You like what you like and keep listening to it.

[Mosh]

Well, it feeds into the mentality, like us against them. Trump uses a similar playbook in riling up his constituents.

It's just marketing imo. In the 90s Bruce was selling the "I'm bigger than any one genre" shtick and then came into the Brave New World tour acting like a 14 year old who was going to kick your ass if you don't listen to Metal. He's just projecting an image to go with the music (and beer) he's selling.

[TAC]

It's just marketing imo. In the 90s Bruce was selling the "I'm bigger than any one genre" shtick and then came into the Brave New World tour acting like a 14 year old who was going to kick your ass if you don't listen to Metal. He's just projecting an image to go with the music (and beer) he's selling.

Exactly. But it's the reason why I never warmed up to Bruce. In the 80's he was railing against MTV constantly, and I kept thinking, if there's one band touring arenas at the time that owes their place to MTV, it was Iron Maiden.

The thing is, Maiden, to me, was always built on integrity, and I always kind of thought Bruce was a bit of an outlier in the club. This is what I was thinking back then. I never liked his preachiness and uppityness between songs. I never thought it aligned with what Maiden was all about. Again, these were my thoughts in the 80's and early 90's.

Now that all said, no one works harder and is more accomplished than Bruce Dickinson, the guy has earned everything he's achieved.
And it honestly wasn't until I got Balls To Picasso that I finally respected him as an artist. He blew me away with that album, especially contrasted with The X Factor. It hit me right then how important Bruce was to the balance of Iron Maiden.

[wolfking]

It hit me right then how important Bruce was to the balance of Iron Maiden.

And I have a feeling Steve wouldn't be the biggest fan of a lot of what he says but he knows this too, and now knows he's just as important part to the band as he is.  I think he takes the good with the bad with Bruce.

While you guys are right, Bruce is projecting an image to go with the music, as much as I love the guy, I don't think it was ever needed when it came to Iron Maiden.  The songs and performances speak for themselves.

[kaos2900]

Probably better for the Taylor Swift thread, but she is bigger than Madonna ever was. If I had to compare her to someone it would be prime Michael Jackson and maybe even the Beatles in terms of popularity at their peak. She's already been relevant for close to 20 years. I will honestly be surprised if she disappears from pop culture in the future.

Bruce and who ever can talk shit about her, but she has influenced a whole new generation to care about music. And she actually sings and plays instruments and writes her own songs.

[MirrorMask]

Bruce and who ever can talk shit about her, but she has influenced a whole new generation to care about music. And she actually sings and plays instruments and writes her own songs.

Yeah, I might be biased 'cause I'm now in Taylor's camp for her excellent acoustic / indie albums (Folklore and Evemore), but there are dozens and dozens of plastic pop artists with no talent fabricated by labels, and he goes after one of those who's actually a real songwriter and legit musician  weird choice.

Also, the way I see the thing about how much passionate metal fans are about music.... let's not forget that music for all of us is a big passion, but for others is entertainment. We obsess over every little nugget in DT's music but other people are just content with having something catchy in the background while they're doing stuff, and that's just fine.

Also, how many of us here are compiling top 10 and top 100 lists, religiously organize their discographies and then go to the Louvre only to see Mona Lisa and the Nike? to the "horror" of art fans who would be more than happy to explain you how much you've missed by visiting only the most famous installments of the museum? every category has their casual "fans" and hardcore, passionate dedicate persons, and music is no exception.

[soupytwist]

Probably better for the Taylor Swift thread, but she is bigger than Madonna ever was.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this.  But it's very hard to compare, but I guess that's a discussion for the Taylor thread 

[efx]

It's weird to insinuate that Taylor Swift's popularity is fleeting when she's had as solid a career as literally anyone up to this point and she is still just in her mid-30's. Bruce is just being his hypocritical self and I say that as someone who counts meeting him as a definitive highlight and Maiden might be the most important band to me. Love what the guy does and he seems nice enough but these sort of statements make no sense.

[The Curious Orange]

Probably better for the Taylor Swift thread, but she is bigger than Madonna ever was. If I had to compare her to someone it would be prime Michael Jackson and maybe even the Beatles in terms of popularity at their peak. She's already been relevant for close to 20 years. I will honestly be surprised if she disappears from pop culture in the future.

Bruce and who ever can talk shit about her, but she has influenced a whole new generation to care about music. And she actually sings and plays instruments and writes her own songs.

I'm in no way a Taylor Swift fan, but this.
She is so massive, and has such cultural impact that she will be mentioned in the same breath as The Beatles by future historians.

What a way to de-rail a Maiden thread, talking about Taylor Swift!

[nobloodyname]

Bruce and who ever can talk shit about her, but she has influenced a whole new generation to care about music. And she actually sings and plays instruments and writes her own songs.

Yeah, I might be biased 'cause I'm now in Taylor's camp for her excellent country / pop indie albums (everything except Folklore and Evemore), but there are dozens and dozens of plastic pop artists with no talent fabricated by labels, and he goes after one of those who's actually a real songwriter and legit musician  weird choice.



(PS - I used to have a mancrush on Bruce. Now I just think he's mostly a grade A plum, frankly.)

[wolfking]

He referenced pop music.  Perhaps he just threw her name out there as an example to his point without really thinking about who he actually was referencing.  I think it was more of the point of manufactured pop music that comes in for a few years and then disappears.  He just chose the worst possible reference.  If he said Katy Perry or whoever it probably makes more sense.