My thoughts on 'Dream Theater' (***SPOILERS***)

[RMGadelha]

Since I don't understand anything about production and about composition, I'm gonna agree with the part that people say that the album structure isn't very good. I really prefer when they do albums with several shorter songs and one epic, like in Octavarium's case. I do like the album, but in the sense with what I said previously, I prefer SC over BC&SL.

[mikeyd23]

7StringedBeast, I agree with a lot of what you said, I'm not sure that BC&SL is my LEAST favorite DT album, but its certainly near the bottom.  One comment I will make on your post regarding Production:

Production:
This whole album sounds like trash to me.  Everything is just compressed to all holy hell and it makes it a pain to listen to.  There is just nothing remarkable about the sounds on this album.  Nothing new, nothing good.  It's just all there, up front, in your face in a bad way.  Portnoy's drums are all too loud, and there was no room for Myung or Jordan to be heard (much of this has to do with the actual compositions of the songs though)

I agree the album isn't their best sounding, or even close, but I will say that JP's guitar sounds fantastic on this record at times.  Now, there are moments where I am not fully in love with his tone, but for most of the record, I think his guitar tone sounds great.  Obviously, this doesn't make up for the rest of the production problems, but I just wanted to point out what I thought was a highlight from a sonic perspective.

[countoftuscany42]

BC&SL is one of my favorite DT albums, mainly because it was the first album by DT i ever heard, so the nostalgia factor sticks with me i guess.  Theres just something about it that works with me even despite its obvious flaws.  TCOT is one of my favorite songs despite the lyrics, and even though ANTR drags i like it.  AROP was the first DT song i heard (except maybe PMU, not sure..) and it blew me away with how technically impressive it was. Wither is good, TBOT solo is godly, and even if TSF isnt the best of the 12 step suite, it wraps it up quite nicely in my opinion
I dont really know how to explain it, but something about this album is just always going to stick with me and be an upper tier DT album in my eyes. Which is why im annoyed i didnt get to see them supporting it live 

[ToT-147]

Previously, on DTF:

BC&SL, I really don't get how people like it. The worst is when people put it above I&W.   

Besides the wankery, there is so many embarassing moments too []

6- TCOT: And, finally, this one has everything... Their best song since ITNOG...(should I say "IMO"? I think that's very clear [It seems like not]... No need to do that)

What about Octavarium? [excellent song, but 'even' TMOLS it's above that one IMO]

Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe (?) that's just me.

I put BC&SL above I&W.. Actually, far above I&W.. Yeah, I'm talking about Images and Words.. The untouchable DT album; one of their most loved albums... But this is what happens: people have opinions, different opinions.. They disagree, you know?.. (I'm not saying I don't like I&W, actually I don't "dislike" (ambiguous term) any of their albums.. I'm just saying they only have been improve since then.. They always get better, they progress...)
Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep... Right in Lifting Shadows, in Space-Dye-Vest, in New Millenium, Lines in the Sand (good an epic song though) Just Let me Breathe and Anna Lee.. But only that far... Then, I love the 90% of their music until the present... The other 10 percent?: I "just" like it.. There's no more "embarrasing moments" or "worst songs/albums" since then, not even a single "disappointing" second.. I find that in other bands, but not in Dream..
Yet, all this is because I have my own point of view, as we all have..  I feel TCOT to be better than 8V song, so what?.. I think in BC&SL as the album that sums up DT, so f****** what? (as Hetfield would say)

But, as the other James said: "let's go back to the program..."...

Noxon, I think you haven't answered this relevant question Nikatapi did, and I've been asking myself since the tracklist was revealed...

For the guys who've listened to the album, do think the sequence of the songs is good? Is there a point where the album becomes tiring because of continued heavy songs? Thanks!

Now, that's a good question...

I also had this doubt at some point.. I'm sure that the first 4 tracks are quite balanced each other [you have Intro, Heavy song, melodic song (should we say "ballad"?), and the Instrumental] but, what about the rest?...

[Whatsername]

I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.

Apologies for slightly chopping up your post, but I think this sentiment deserve another post just to emphasize it. This is why I've had such trouble choosing my top 50. They're all amazing songs.

[noxon]

If i haven't answered a question you can assume that it's because I don't want to...

[Outcrier]

Extremely generic metal sounds and in structure.  To me the songwriting was just incredibly forgettable for this album.  The only redeeming parts of the album were the beautiful agony section, and parts of The Count.

I agree, there is some great Petrucci's solos too and that's it.

[FourthHorseman]

Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep

You have got to be kidding me

[Whatsername]

Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep

You have got to be kidding me

[?]

Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep... Right in Lifting Shadows, in Space-Dye-Vest

[7StringedBeast]

Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep... Right in Lifting Shadows, in Space-Dye-Vest

BCSL being one of his first and favorite albums, he obviously enjoys the newer more metal side of DT.  So his opinion makes sense.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.

[ToT-147]

Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep

You have got to be kidding me

I'm not kidding anybody.. I just can't understand why you can't accept a different opinion than yours.. I don't enjoy so much KM's composing on DT... The Intro/Outro melody in SDV, I used to skip it.. I used I said: now, I just don't hear that song any more...

Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.

What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...

I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.

Apologies for slightly chopping up your post, but I think this sentiment deserve another post just to emphasize it. This is why I've had such trouble choosing my top 50. They're all amazing songs.

Finally.. Thank you for making me feel that at least someone agrees with something I say.. And I agree that matter needs to be in some other post..

[7StringedBeast]

TOT,

I think most people are saying what they are saying in a joking manner.  No need to get upset I'm pretty sure.  It's just, you have a very unpopular opinion about an album by putting it above I&W in ranking, and around these boards you'll definitely catch some flak for that.  But don't worry about it, cause no one is actually serious and if they are, screw it.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.

What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...

Subject lines are your friend. I was kidding, of course you're entitled to your opinion.

[Whatsername]

I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.

Apologies for slightly chopping up your post, but I think this sentiment deserve another post just to emphasize it. This is why I've had such trouble choosing my top 50. They're all amazing songs.

Finally.. Thank you for making me feel that at least someone agrees with something I say.. And I agree that matter needs to be in some other post..

You're welcome. That being said I completely disagree with your opinion on the songs you listed as embarrassing moments, but to each his/her own.

[Outcrier]

Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.

What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...

Relax ToT, he was obviously joking (it was actually pretty funny  ).

[The Stray Seed]

Isn't this all a humongous off topic, bros?

[me7]

For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.

And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.

ADTOE is way more technical than BC&SL. The problem with BC&SL is the format. If you're going to release an album with only 6 songs, then they better all be good and they're just not. To me it's a bookend album with 4 flat songs in the middle (AROP being the best of the 4). So by the math, only 33% of the record is listenable.

We're it me I would have shortened ANTR by a minute or two, gotten rid of Wither, made TSF about half as long, gotten rid of TBOT and written 4 or 5 more 3-6 minute songs. But that's just me 

Nuh uh. Your maths is flawed

Observe

BC&SL is 75 minutes long. ANTR and TCoT total roughly 35 minutes in length. That equates to 46.6% of the album.

This moment of pedanticism was brought to you by the number bore and some letters.

This has to be the post of the year
When I read JPX's post, I didn't realize how wrong his math was

[Shine]

So Noxon, how has the album changed with time? You've been listening to it for a couple of weeks now, right? Anything that you at first thought was annoying that has grown on you, or visa versa?

[RMGadelha]

I believe he mentioned that he was listening to the album in a wrong way (in regards to production) and it got better after started listening to it properly. Anyway, I believe he can explain it better, I suck at searching posts

[ToT-147]

Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.

What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...

Relax ToT, he was obviously joking (it was actually pretty funny  ).

I'm already relaxed.. I laughed at it too.. Only that there are ways and ways to joking about something... I was being attacked, as someone said, and at least I wanted some argument to the critic...

But I repeat, please "let's go back to the program..."
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYYkf6jlUt4 )

[eviljust]

@ToT-147 Obviously I respect your opinion, it's just I have a different one and honestly, this is the first time I'm reading something like that. Not saying that is wrong heh, just sounds kinda weird to me (I'm speaking of the "embarassing moments" part)

I'm really curious to hear JR on this album. ADTOE was plenty of his creativity and inspiration, I'm looking forward to it with this one as well.

[noxon]

Look, in a few days i'll be able to post my review, and it'll answer just about all the questions you people have.

[Marion Crane]

What do you mean "you people"?   

[RMGadelha]

You nasty lowbies DT fans without early access to the album! 

[King Postwhore]

ToT-147 I think that you are in the minority and nothing is wrong with that it just shocks most fans on this board.

[Shine]

Look, in a few days i'll be able to post my review, and it'll answer just about all the questions you people have.

Yeah, but that's in 6 days. How could you possibly expect any of us to wait 6 days for our next fix of DT news?

[PROGdrummer]

6 days? I thought people could post reviews on September 4th?

[Shine]

I don't know, I was reading through Noxon's posts and he said at one point that he can post his review on September 9th, but maybe it's changed since?

[goo-goo]

I also recall the Sept 9 date.

Man, can't wait for the reviews to come out. Been digging TEI a lot!

[XB0BX]

I agree that Surrounded is embarrassing. It seems very cheesy, and I would be embarrassed to listen to it in front of my friends. Its cheesiness is made even worse by the fact that it's just not a good song.

[Mosh]

Wat.

Surrounded is heavenly. Fuck what my friends would think, some of them would probably find it heavenly too.

[Lucidity]

Wat.

Surrounded is heavenly. Fuck what my friends would think, some of them would probably find it heavenly too.

[theseoafs]

No idea why the hell anyone thinks Surrounded is embarrassing.  Not that it's relevant to this thread, of course.