Dream Theater self titled album discussion - DT12

[XJDenton]

Please read the new guidelines and move ANY SPOILER DISCUSSION to the new thread.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38972.0

This thread will remain open for spoiler free discussion and speculation.

[Outcrier]

Well, i'm listening to the Enemy Inside again 

[lightbug]

I just heard the whole album!  
I've tried to remember the songs after the first listening ... it's almost imposible, i think I (WE) have to congratulate the guys who went to the listening party,they did an amazing job with the songs review

Spoiler alert : This band is amazing!!! 

[Benedettosoxfan]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but does anyone know if we will be able to listen to the album up until the 24th? Because I don't want to listen if I have to wait another week before it's mine forever 

[aprilethereal]

.

[hefdaddy42]

Okay Illumination Theory is much better than I expected. Not on par with 8VM (although I' ve only listened to IT two times, so it might grow on me), but lots of awesomeness nonetheless

move ANY SPOILER DISCUSSION to the new thread.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38972.0

This thread will remain open for spoiler free discussion and speculation.

[aprilethereal]

I'm sorry, but does my post really contain any spoilers? I'm only saying that I like IT, nothing specific

[Rhayader]

Listening to the album now. So far, very disappointed. Music without salt.

[Onno]

I won't be listening! It's really hard, but I'll wait for my CD to arrive to ensure that the sound quality is the best I can get. Luckily my CD will probably arrive Friday or Saturday 

[Fiery Winds]

Guys, spoiler free discussion means discussion between people who have not heard the album.  Please respect those with whom you may differ on what constitutes a "Spoiler".

We have a separate thread just for those who want to discuss the album freely: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38972.0

[aprilethereal]

Alright

[bosk1]

Guys, spoiler free discussion means discussion between people who have not heard the album.  Please respect those with whom you may differ on what constitutes a "Spoiler".

We have a separate thread just for those who want to discuss the album freely: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38972.0

This.  If you've heard the album and are posting about the content, you probably really should be posting in the other thread.

[Voices]

I just can't post here anymore lol

[TheAtliator]

I haven't checked this thread for a few months because I really want to keep what I know about the album to the minimum. I don't want to know which songs are soft, heavy, long, short. I actually didn't want to know which one was the instrumental, or how long TEI was, but now I do, but it's not a huge deal.

Anyway, without too much description, I'm wondering just how good do you guys think the album is? I'm curious to know, but it's really not gonna affect my opinion of it.. I mean Systematic Chaos is still one of my favorite albums.

[Plasmastrike]

Does anyone have a really high quality version of the album art (without the line cut-through)? Google hasn't helped and I've gone through the first 50 pages of this thread.

EDIT: Continued my search. Found this. Lemme know if anyone has a higher resolution!

https://assets.network.roadrunnerrecords.com/system/board_posts/post_images/40233/full_DT.New.WEB.Cover.jpg

[The Boomr]

Can anyone tell me how the sound quality of the stream is? Like for example, compare the quality of TEI on this stream to how a download from iTunes or wherever sounds. Is this stream just the same quality as it was for TEI's first stream?

[PROGdrummer]

Can anyone tell me how the sound quality of the stream is? Like for example, compare the quality of TEI on this stream to how a download from iTunes or wherever sounds. Is this stream just the same quality as it was for TEI's first stream?

The quality is actually really, really really good! I'd be so happy if this was how the CD sounded even TEI sounds better

[Kotowboy]

Can anyone tell me how the sound quality of the stream is? Like for example, compare the quality of TEI on this stream to how a download from iTunes or wherever sounds. Is this stream just the same quality as it was for TEI's first stream?

The quality is actually really, really really good! I'd be so happy if this was how the CD sounded even TEI sounds better

Yeah the production is pretty cool. Obviously the CD will be better but no complaints from me. You get used to the loud drums quite quickly.

[ariich]

It sounds pretty compressed but I think that's probably just how the album will sound. I love the mix itself though, the balance is fantastic!

[dparrott]

Instrumental version of TEI on the Japanese CD:

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=WPZR-30479

[liran95]

Instrumental version of TEI on the Japanese CD:

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=WPZR-30479

Nice! 

[Kotowboy]

It sounds pretty compressed but I think that's probably just how the album will sound. I love the mix itself though, the balance is fantastic!

I was a bit worried when I heard Along For The Ride for the first time but the album sounds really great. And will only sound better on CD.

[Kotowboy]

Prediction

4:26 - 4:52 of Enigma Machine is going to blow minds



(disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing.)

Hey remember this Jay ?

We should check it out now the album is out and has been for ages

[Prog Snob]

How bored are you to bring up something a year and a half old?      

[Lucien]

Prediction

4:26 - 4:52 of Enigma Machine is going to blow minds



(disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing.)

Hey remember this Jay ?

We should check it out now the album is out and has been for ages

If he had extended that to 5:02, it would have been the entire phrase that included the wicked drum solo 

Also 4:26 actually is the start of a phrase

[Kotowboy]

Yeah pretty good timing. 4:26 is literally the downbeat of that section.

[JayOctavarium]

I WIN

[darkshade]

Currently listening to DT12 now. I didn't want to start a new thread...

This album has way too hot of a mix, and the sound is a little hollow to me. This was the first DT release where I was disappointed on release and first couple of listens. This album basically destroyed my overall interest in Dream Theater and modern prog overall, and I have (and still do) felt that prog from established or semi-established acts from the 90s and 2000s have been putting out sub-par music since 2012, with rare exception.

As for the tunes, I view this album in 3 parts.

First third: Opening instrumental til Enigma Machine. Classic moments throughout, but a little too technical for technical's sake, one thing that MP rarely let happen were odd time stuff that sounds choppy and lacks flow, like anyone can come up with crazy odd time sections on a MIDI program on the computer, DT just have a drummer that can handle that stuff. The Looking Glass is a great song, even if the Rush inspired main riff sounds choppy and should have been in 4/4 or worked on a little more to make it seem more interesting. Overall the tune is classic DT, the rest of the tunes have their moments but could have used more time and work, The Enemy Inside is fine, but the main key/guitar melody could have been worked on more as well to be more complete.

Second third: The Bigger Picture to Along For The Ride. Although I think TBP might be the strongest single song on the album, it feels similar in 'sound' to the remainder of the album, a sound that is prevalent on all the Mangini-era albums, and I don't feel like any songs in this part of the album has their own identity. There's a lot of good ideas here, but nothing connects to me, seems like a bunch of B-sides surrounded by stronger material.

Final third: Illumination Theory. I'm listening to this and typing in real time. Opening reminds me of Haken. The driving riff is cool, one of the best parts of the song. A lot of this reminds me of late-2000s DT. Hmm.. more Haken sounding stuff. Verses remind me of one of something of FII, can't place it, I think it's Just Let Me Breathe. Chorus goes back into that 'sound' I described in the previous paragraph. Some instrumental passage. Goes into the ambient section with hints of world music. I like this part, it's serene, and flows out of the previous riffage well. I've always felt this section and the next don't really belong with the rest of the epic... Over time, I guess I've grown accustomed to it. The orchestral section is beautiful, and has made me shed a tear once or twice, the live version sure did. I think more could have been done with it, or perhaps its role in the entire epic could have bee worked on, but the section itself is pretty much perfect, I kinda wish it lasted longer.

And then in come that BASS. Then the rest of the band comes in and it's like "oh, right, I forgot I was listening to a Dream Theater song." Maybe that's a good thing sometimes, but as I said, it's like they added that ambient/orchestral sections in between the main piece. All this riffage suddenly is making me question what the point of all the beautiful parts were for? Holy cow, though, some of this instrumental stuff is crazy. I like that part at 13:56ish before Jordan's keyboard solo. His solo is standard Rudess era DT stuff. The riff underneath is the one from the beginning of the song, and it's cool, but the road to get from there to here just seems like patch work to me. Climax is alright, seems a bit underwhelming, could have used more build up to it, but it may also because it's drenched in that Mangini era DT sound, I don't know how to describe it, it's James' processed vocals, the chord progressions, etc... The outro is classic similar to the ending of Octavarium. Overall, I think the band should have had masters of 20-30 minute epics like Neal Morse or Roine Stolt in the studio to help them put IT together.

I've always felt like the Easter Egg at the end is one of the best moments of the Mangini era, and of course, way too brief. Need more of this. Just jam off this stuff guys. Of course it makes the track length fake news-y because IT is really a 19 minute epic... I never liked "hidden tracks".

So in all, more enjoyable than The Astonishing for me, but I still rank it low on my DT album rankings, like 2nd or 3rd to last, even with IT on the album. Too many criticisms that I can't get over.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I gave this album a spin for the first time in many years over the weekend. I really enjoyed it. There are two things that hold it back a bit for me - Certain aspects of the production and its presentation is a bit dull. But otherwise, I think it's pretty underrated.

In particular, I really enjoy the instrumental flair of this record. It has two full-on instrumental tracks and the middle of Illumination Theory is basically just a symphony in concert. And while the production overall isn't the best, I love how you can really hear the bass. Behind the Veil is a super catchy, huge-sounding anthem and Surrender to Reason is one of their most beautiful songs. On a more superficial level, I love all the ties the album has to Berklee, bringing in a student to help arrange the strings and them filming a show there.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

My goodness this thread is massive for such a divisive album 

[hefdaddy42]

Thread title corrected.  Feel free to post spoilers lol

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Excellent album. Great songwriting with fresh ideas and much more concise songs than what we'd seen in the past.

The production and overall sound of it is awful so it's a stain the album could never really shake off, but if DT12 sounded like DT15 the perception of it would be very different.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Excellent album. Great songwriting with fresh ideas and much more concise songs than what we'd seen in the past.

The production and overall sound of it is awful so it's a stain the album could never really shake off, but if DT12 sounded like DT15 the perception of it would be very different.

For sure. During the Mangini era, DT wrote two "keep it simple" albums with the s/t and Distance over Time, and I think the songwriting quality is comparable, it's just that the s/t has worse production. If DT12 sounded like any of the albums from DOT onwards, I would rank it even higher.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

For sure. During the Mangini era, DT wrote two "keep it simple" albums with the s/t and Distance over Time, and I think the songwriting quality is comparable, it's just that the s/t has worse production. If DT12 sounded like any of the albums from DOT onwards, I would rank it even higher.

It probably should be ranked better than DOT and View in terms of song writing alone. I don't love the ballad but it works. BTV has a flop of a chorus, which is the only clear negative to me. Everything else is gold.

No other record shows so many sides of the band. It's really a very diverse group of songs that are all quintessential DT.

[Misirlou]

Probably the most ignored album with LaBrie in it (WDADU is the overall most ignored).

It´s fine, not really one I go to very often, but it has it´s moments.

To me it´s about the bookends. False Awakening Suite is a fresh and heavy opener, and Illumination Theory is a fantastic epic.

It´s 3rd in the Mangini era for me, after Dramatic Turn and A View, in that order.