Question About the Bible and Homosexuality

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I have a question for you smart people. I think this is an interesting question, and it has probably been discussed many times.

In my biological psychology class last Monday, we were covering the chapter of sexual orientation. According to my professor and his textbook, studies show that homosexuality is not a choice. Many times, before a kid even hits puberty, you can tell that he/she is going not going to be heterosexual.

What, exactly, is the bible's stance on homosexuality (I hear so many things)?

The most popular thing I hear is that the bible says homosexuality is wrong and gays will burn in hell. This seems kind of weird to me considering they don't choose to be homosexual. They just are and can't be any other way (or so I have been taught, and what I think is the accepted view these days).

[Fiery Winds]

One thing I want to clear up right away, is that no matter what, homosexuals should not be treated differently in any way.  Nowhere in the Bible are we told to condemn, judge, and harass people.  I have two homosexual relatives, and they are the nicest people you'd every meet. 

Your answers are likely to be varied, with views on both extremes.  I for one, don't see it as a choice.  I also don't think it's hardwired into us in the sense that we MUST obey it.  I see it as an inclination.  As a Christian, I see the inclination as no different than an inclination to sin in any other way, and I hate how more vocal segments of Christianity single out this topic when it's right alongside lying and stealing. 

[Ħ]

Three verses (could be more):

Lev 18:22 -- "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Lev 20:13 -- ""If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Rom 1:26-27 --"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

So the Bible definitely says that homosexuality is bad.

As far as the statement that "all homosexuals will burn in hell", that's not really true if they are in Christ. Anyone that has sin on their account whether they are homosexual or not burns in hell. But anyone that is in Christ and therefore has sin blotted out does not burn in hell.

As far as it not being a choice or not being natural for them to be straight, there are plenty of other things that are "natural" but still sinful.  For example, Jesus says that whoever looks at a woman with lust is guilty of adultery, but surely looking at women with lust is a natural thing to do.  As MP says, "you got yours and I got mine."

So yeah, hope that answers some stuff.  Personally, I am not sure if homosexuality is a choice or not, but either way the Bible says its bad so yeah.

[Sigz]

AFAIK the usual response is that being homosexual is not a sin, but committing homosexual acts is.

[yeshaberto]

I tend to think of it similar to most husbands desire to be unfaithful.  after spending many years with the same woman, and when an attractive woman comes into view, a husband likely will have the "natural" attraction to want to be with another woman.  it is wrong, and that man must curb his desires and be faithful to his wife.  even if a homosexual has "natural" desires for the same sex (whether choice or not), doesn't change the fact that it is "unnatural" according to God's design and he/she must strive to curb those desires

[gmillerdrake]

As a Christian, I see the inclination as no different than an inclination to sin in any other way, and I hate how more vocal segments of Christianity single out this topic when it's right alongside lying and stealing. 

[sonatafanica]

As a Christian, I see the inclination as no different than an inclination to sin in any other way, and I hate how more vocal segments of Christianity single out this topic when it's right alongside lying and stealing. 

I'm sorry, really am, but this actually makes me sick.

[GuineaPig]

What do Christians think about homosexuality in animals?

[Jamesman42]

As a Christian, I see the inclination as no different than an inclination to sin in any other way, and I hate how more vocal segments of Christianity single out this topic when it's right alongside lying and stealing. 

I'm sorry, really am, but this actually makes me sick.

Why?

What do Christians think about homosexuality in animals?

I don't believe animals have souls, so no punishment, so no worries.

[reo73]

First off, throw out levitical law because it doesn't really apply new covenant morality.  If you look at Paul's writings it is suggested that the act of homosexuality is sinful and not per God's intended design.  But, just like any other sin of the flesh, God's grace will cover it.  There are plenty of self-proclaiming homosexual Christian's (one of my good friend's is) who love & follow Christ just as much as other Christians, but are in homosexual relationships.  How they reconcile this with their faith is by proclaiming God's grace.  As for my viewpoint, I believe it to be sinful but no more sinful than any other sexual sin the Bible warns against and probably less than some that do real social damage (like affairs that destroy families.)

[GuineaPig]

What do Christians think about homosexuality in animals?

I don't believe animals have souls, so no punishment, so no worries.

But people in this thread have suggested it's against God's design, that it's unnatural.  Yet it's extremely prevalent in the natural world.  Are penguins, insects, dolphins, etc. just all hedonists?

[bosk1]

Last time I checked, God has no commandments directed at penguins, insects, dolphins, etc.

[GuineaPig]

But I'm not speaking about the moral arguments.  People are saying it's unnatural and against God's design.  Yet it's extremely prevalent in the natural world, and I don't think anyone is going to argue that is not part of God's design.

[sonatafanica]

As a Christian, I see the inclination as no different than an inclination to sin in any other way, and I hate how more vocal segments of Christianity single out this topic when it's right alongside lying and stealing. 

I'm sorry, really am, but this actually makes me sick.

Why?

I'm not saying it to the people I quoted because I don't know if it's actually their belief or not, and this thread really isn't about that as it's just a discussion of what the bible says about homosexuality. I don't really want to deviate the thread from that much.

But the why of it is probably that because I was raised in an environment that was very accepting of homosexuals, and the people who were singled out were the ones who criticized the gays and said that being a homosexual is wrong. I guess those sort of anti-homosexual beliefs just irk me.

[Jamesman42]

I believe it is unnatural in the sense that it is against His design, in the way He wants humans to act and to live.

But it's like how we all have dispositions to any sort of sin. I myself lust way too much, and get angry too often. I've yet to meet someone who is perfect. We all have something sinful in us, naturally. To ACT on homosexuality is to sin as if I was to act wrongly on my anger.

Edit: I see, SF. I have a good amount of friends who are openly gay, and they know my beliefs and where I stand, but we have never fought about stuff. It really does depend on your beliefs.

[Ħ]

But I'm not speaking about the moral arguments.  People are saying it's unnatural and against God's design.  Yet it's extremely prevalent in the natural world, and I don't think anyone is going to argue that is not part of God's design.

No one said it was unnatural.  I didn't. Yeshua4 didn't.  Fiery Winds didn't.

[bosk1]

[yeshaberto]

actually, I did.  I was referring especially to Rom 1:26-27.
but I agree with others that scriptures spend much more time dealing with many other sins, many of which I certainly struggle with (lying, greed, lust, drunkenness, etc). 
if I struggle with these things (as I certainly do) as one struggles with homosexuality (as some do), there is no question that there is room for grace.
there is a world of difference, though, between struggling with something and justifying something as okay because of God's grace.  I am constantly tempted by other women, but I am in my 21st year of marriage and have been 100% faithful.  If I begin to practice adultery without repentance/struggle, I have crossed the line of grace.

[Ħ]

My bad.

[ack44]

Unnatural is an oxymoron lol.

[Orbert]

What I always keep in mind is that The Bible was written by people.  It may be "the word of God" but Moses, John, and a lot of other humans wrote it.

As such, Moses wrote a lot of things based on his chats with God on Mt. Sinai.  At some point, it was time to write everything down, what it means to be a "good" person.  The passages in Leviticus seem quite simplistic to me.  The purpose of sex is to reproduce; homosex doesn't not result in reproduction, therefore it is using one of God's gifts improperly, therefore homosex is "bad".  What that attitude completely ignores is that God wants us to enjoy sex.  Why would he give us such a gift and not expect us to enjoy it?  Sex is not solely for the purpose of reproduction, but for expressing love and affection.

In other words, Moses meant well, but unless God specifically told him during one of their chats that homosex is a sin, then it was Moses who wrote it, not God.

Similar thing with the New Testament.  John was a great guy, one of the best, and knew Christ's mind about as well as any man could, but he was still just a man.  John wrote a lot of things in his letters about what is right and what is wrong and what people should do and what people shouldn't do.  But what I notice is that the gospels record many of Christ's sermons and teaching, and none of them record Christ ever speaking against homosex.  Only John's writings.

In other words, John meant well, but unless Jesus specifically told him during one of their chats that homosex is a sin, then it was John who said it, not Jesus.

[rumborak]

To pick up on that argument, I also think one should stay away from the term "the Bible's view on XYZ", as if the Bible was a single coherent entity, almost with a "will of its own". It's like asking "what's Germany's view on homosexuality?", and then looking at all historical records. So, sure, you will find records from the 1930s saying homosexuals should be eradicated by the state. Does that mean its "Germany's stance"? No, it doesn't. It was its stance in one point in time.
The Bible is the same. Just because you can find one person's viewpoint in it that say homosexuality is bad doesn't mean it's the "Bible's view".

rumborak

[Jamesman42]

I am pretty sure a majority of believers believe The Bible to be the Word of God, though

[rumborak]

He didn't dictate it though, so it's at the very least colored by the people who wrote it. Also, I find it a bit strange to consider the more down-to-earth chapters (genealogy etc.) to be the "Word of God". Why would God bother with something like that?

rumborak

[bosk1]

He didn't dictate it though, so it's at the very least colored by the people who wrote it.

Yeah he did.
Also, I find it a bit strange to consider the more down-to-earth chapters (genealogy etc.) to be the "Word of God". Why would God bother with something like that?

rumborak

[/quote]

Genealogies are important for at least two reasons I can think of:  (1) God set up certain functions under the Jewish law to be carried out by certain families, so it was essential that people be able to trace their roots back in time (for example, the high priest had to be a descendant of Aaron and of the tribe of Levi).  (2) For purposes of demonstrating fulfillment of prophecy, it is essential to be able to trace back Jesus' physical lineage to David and, farther back, to Abraham.

[Jamesman42]

He didn't dictate it though, so it's at the very least colored by the people who wrote it. Also, I find it a bit strange to consider the more down-to-earth chapters (genealogy etc.) to be the "Word of God". Why would God bother with something like that?

rumborak

Well, that's like, your opinion man

What bosk said, plus people like to know where they've come from. You can see it today; people love to see how far back they can trace their lineage.

[Jamesman42]

...

[bosk1]

Either way, the thread needs to stay on topic.

[GuineaPig]

I know he's traditionally been considered the author of the Pentateuch, but I didn't know that was still the widespread belief.

[Quadrochosis]

it's right alongside lying and stealing.

Anyone who seriously thinks that being gay, or performing gay acts is "right alongside lying and stealing" is not a person worthy of any respect.

[sonatafanica]

it's right alongside lying and stealing.

Anyone who seriously thinks that being gay, or performing gay acts is "right alongside lying and stealing" is not a person worthy of any respect.

Agreed. That school of thought is archaic and insulting.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

As always, reading responses to this kind of thing (a religious discussion) simultaneously confuses me, interests me, and overwhelms me.

Some of you guys have talked about how homosexuality is something that you are not supposed to act on, like lying or stealing. The problem with that comparison I see is that in order to be happy, I think human beings have to feel loved. You get love from all sorts of places, but probably the most essential place besides family is from a partner. It just seems... I don't know... Bizarre that God would make someone who has no choice but to feel homosexual, and then say acting out on that homosexuality is wrong, when acting out on that homosexuality and finding a partner is such an essential part to enjoying life. Does that make sense?

[bosk1]

it's right alongside lying and stealing.

Anyone who seriously thinks that being gay, or performing gay acts is "right alongside lying and stealing" is not a person worthy of any respect.

I kinda have to feel sorry for anyone who doesn't believe that all people are worthy of respect, no matter what they think or believe.

[sonatafanica]

it's right alongside lying and stealing.

Anyone who seriously thinks that being gay, or performing gay acts is "right alongside lying and stealing" is not a person worthy of any respect.

I kinda have to feel sorry for anyone who doesn't believe that all people are worthy of respect, no matter what they think or believe.

Perhaps it doesn't make the person unworthy of respect, but that school of thought that Quad referred to is a pretty gross one that is certainly unworthy of respect.

It's just frustrating to be living in a time where people are becoming more and more accepting as time goes on and one of the major things oppressing people with different sexual orientation is our heavily bible-based society who tells them that their love for another person is bad and should be discouraged.

As always, reading responses to this kind of thing (a religious discussion) simultaneously confuses me, interests me, and overwhelms me.

Some of you guys have talked about how homosexuality is something that you are not supposed to act on, like lying or stealing. The problem with that comparison I see is that in order to be happy, I think human beings have to feel loved. You get love from all sorts of places, but probably the most essential place besides family is from a partner. It just seems... I don't know... Bizarre that God would make someone who has no choice but to feel homosexual, and then say acting out on that homosexuality is wrong, when acting out on that homosexuality and finding a partner is such an essential part to enjoying life. Does that make sense?

One thing I would like to have explained is why I get a boner for jesus. I mean, seeing that muscled man all sweaty and with all that gorgeous hair wearing nothing but a loincloth...mmhmmm

[contest_sanity]

when acting out on that homosexuality and finding a partner is such an essential part to enjoying life.

Many people (male and female) would like to get married.  For whatever reason, they are not able to find a suitable partner, or no one wants to marry them.  In such a case, the New Testament doesn't say, "Alright, just go have sex with whoever you want; it's critical for your happiness."  Rather, it requires celibacy outside of marriage.  I make this point to say that the NT sexual ethic isn't just arbitrarily designed to foil homosexuals; it also creates the same difficult requirements for some heterosexuals as well. 

Not even saying that I agree wholeheartedly with this (many days I'm not sure), but you were asking about what the Bible says.