The Mike Portnoy Appreciation/Discussion Thread (merged)

[cramx3]

If he started a blog dissecting how bad DT's vocals were or even tweeted about it I can understand some people being upset.  However, this was just one casual interview where he made a funny self deprecating dig at the band he started which happens to be the MOST common critique of the band.  It's just not a big deal at all.

But it's not an isolated incident, that's why people continue to talk about it.  It keeps happening.  I do think you are right that none of us know or can fully understand whats going on in his head.

[lovethedrake]

All fair responses... he was being majorly piled on here and there isn't a definitive resolution as to what he meant or why he said it so I felt the need to defend a legend that has mostly positively impacted our lives.   

[lonestar]

He is not in the band anymore, he can say whatever he wants.   He is a GIGANTIC reason we all fell in love with this band and impacted all of our lives for the better and I can't understand why people constantly bash him on this board.

His personal relationship or falling out with DT is probably difficult for him and nobody on this board or anywhere else can fully understand how it feels so IMO, he can say whatever he wants.

No one is saying he doesn't have the RIGHT to say whatever he wants.

It's just disheartening and disappointing that THIS is what the fuck he wants to say.

It's known as manners and civility.  Grow up, MP.

And while he has a right to say whatever he wants, he also opens himself up to whatever reactions come from what he says. Hef is right, he needs to grow the fuck up.

[bosk1]

And nobody is "bashing" him or "piling on"--we are reacting to what he publicly said.  That is 100% fair game.

[Kingly Gizz & Liz Wiz Bizzy]

Mike can't control that impulse.  He's like Jerry Jones in that aspect. 

[Lupton]

Who's Jerry Jones?

[zappafrank2112]

Without DT,
without JLB,

There wouldn't beeeeeeee any MPeeeeeeeee...

*breakdown followed by wicked keys and guitar solos*

[cramx3]

And blabbermouth just posted another article about MP and leaving DT 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-looks-back-on-his-exit-from-dream-theater-i-needed-a-break-from-those-guys/?fbclid=IwAR1Sr4QUDOap4lMzNon6qZ_92W3Cs-EAkHzkur018lfv7tbB3SLO1M_W7OU

Funny, I commented saying to stop posting this and getting your news from message boards and MP himself liked my comment 

OK, now I get why Bosk said this is not comparable to Sonic Perspectives

[lovethedrake]

Now THAT article makes Portnoy look pretty terrible!     Still love you Mike

[Kingly Gizz & Liz Wiz Bizzy]

I will never stop buying any music Mike is involved. 


That being said, when you say "I'm burnt on these guys", it's really on you.  He played with so many side projects that it soured him on the band he founded. 

[TAC]

I will never stop buying any music Mike is involved.  .

Really? Even if it sucks?

[KevShmev]

He's put out 40 albums since leaving Dream Theater?  Yeah well, it's easy to pad that number when you release live albums from practically every tour.  

[Kingly Gizz & Liz Wiz Bizzy]

I will never stop buying any music Mike is involved.  .

Really? Even if it sucks?

95% of it doesn't.  So 5%, yeah.  Most likely the music your like Tim.

[zappafrank2112]

One of the user comments on the new article:

Mike left his wife (Dream Theater) because he was overexcited due to an affair with a young damaged and vulnerable woman (Avenged Sevenfold) so he tried to lay claim on the young damaged woman but she never took him seriously because she wanted a young man as her permanent lover. She rejected Mike's offer to be the next woman he would cheat on, so Mike went groveling back to his wife (Dream Theater.) Mike's wife had already found a new man who appreciated her and would make her his whole world, so Mike became the Hugh Hefner of metal and is now bragging that he has 40 illegitimate children with 35 different mothers as opposed to Dream Theater's 4 new children that have both their parents and a stable home life.

[Vmadera00]

And blabbermouth just posted another article about MP and leaving DT 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-looks-back-on-his-exit-from-dream-theater-i-needed-a-break-from-those-guys/?fbclid=IwAR1Sr4QUDOap4lMzNon6qZ_92W3Cs-EAkHzkur018lfv7tbB3SLO1M_W7OU

Two things about that article:

1) This comment from A7X's Zacky:

And he told us, 'Hey, I've got good news and bad news. I quit DREAM THEATER.' We were like, 'Oh, no. Well, if you're happy, then that's good.' [And he was like], 'Now I can be with you guys.' And we were like, 'That's not necessarily what we decided upon. And you should take your time and reconsider.' And he was like, 'Well, I put out my press release.' We were like, 'Dude, that's not how we do business. You should have talked to us before.

2) This from the comment section:

Mike left his wife (Dream Theater) because he was overexcited due to an affair with a young damaged and vulnerable woman (Avenged Sevenfold) so he tried to lay claim on the young damaged woman but she never took him seriously because she wanted a young man as her permanent lover. She rejected Mike's offer to be the next woman he would cheat on, so Mike went groveling back to his wife (Dream Theater.) Mike's wife had already found a new man who appreciated her and would make her his whole world, so Mike became the Hugh Hefner of metal and is now bragging that he has 40 illegitimate children with 35 different mothers as opposed to Dream Theater's 4 new children that have both their parents and a stable home life.

Zappa got ahead of me! lol

[bosk1]

Now THAT article makes Portnoy look pretty terrible!     

I disagree and think that article actually is fine (other than being a bit revisionist with regard to his departure from A7X, but I'll leave that aside).  It highlights and clarifies a lot about what was probably the biggest underlying reason why he and DT reached an impasse.  All the members were always free to do whatever they wanted outside of DT, provided that DT came first and whatever else they were doing did not conflict with DT's plans.  MP at that time felt that he was burned out on DT and needed to put himself first and do some other things.  That is inconsistent with how the band had operated.  I think he mistakenly felt that they would agree that what he needed was also best for the band as a whole.  But in most bands with strong leadership, I think it is obvious that the band needs to come first, and side projects, guest appearances, etc. need to fit the band's schedule, or else they are a no-go.  Had MP given it some thought, he should have realized this and come to that same conclusion.  And maybe he did, but still felt so strongly that he was right that he didn't care.  But he again seemed to be so surprised that the band didn't go along with what he wanted that I don't think so.  But anyhow, going back to the whole "DT burned MP" thing, this is another instance of his own words disproving that. 

It's also interesting that we see him basically do the same thing twice in a short timeframe.  He basically went to DT and said, "I know the agreement was that we're going into the studio in January [I think it was January, right?], but I want to change the agreement."  He didn't want to go along with what everyone had previously agreed to and unilaterally made a decision contrary to that agreement.  A short time later, he went to the A7X guys and said, "I know the agreement was for me to work with you guys for a limited term, which is about to expire, but I want to change the agreement and be a permanent member."  As with the DT situation, the A7X guys couldn't fathom why MP thought he could unilaterally change the agreement, and they understandably didn't go along with what he wanted.  It's interesting that he kind of tries to change the narrative on the A7X departure now, despite what he and they said at the time.

[Lethean]

Without DT,
without JLB,

There wouldn't beeeeeeee any MPeeeeeeeee...

*breakdown followed by wicked keys and guitar solos*

 

[Ben_Jamin]

We all know he started to not like LaBries vocals, even having a boxing bag on his drum kit, when LaBrie or himself would mess up. It doesnt surprise me he would say something like what he said. It still doesn't get me riled up or dislike his output. What I see is how much he still misses being in Dream Theater.

The closest thing he has done to Dream Theater is Labyrinth and Opus Maximus. Those songs show Sons of Apollo has it in them to be Prog-Metal. If their are more songs like that on the new album, I'll likely listen to them more.

Although it is pretty wild Blabbermouth put the blame on the forums.

[The Walrus]

More like Nopus Maximus

[Ben_Jamin]

More like Nopus Maximus

Ironically, I like the instrumental sections in those songs more than when JSS "annoying" vocals are singing. (He's not annoying, I actually enjoy his singing in those songs)

[bosk1]

More like Nopus Maximus

That is the most awesome thing ever. 

[Adami]

More like Nopus Maximus

That's it, lock the thread, nothing more to see here.

[MarkFitDT]

We all know he started to not like LaBries vocals, even having a boxing bag on his drum kit, when LaBrie or himself would mess up. It doesnt surprise me he would say something like what he said. It still doesn't get me riled up or dislike his output. What I see is how much he still misses being in Dream Theater.

The closest thing he has done to Dream Theater is Labyrinth and Opus Maximus. Those songs show Sons of Apollo has it in them to be Prog-Metal. If their are more songs like that on the new album, I'll likely listen to them more.

Although it is pretty wild Blabbermouth put the blame on the forums.

I agree completely with this and he probably cant deal with how popular they still are and how much good music they have produced since he left.

[Ben_Jamin]

We all know he started to not like LaBries vocals, even having a boxing bag on his drum kit, when LaBrie or himself would mess up. It doesnt surprise me he would say something like what he said. It still doesn't get me riled up or dislike his output. What I see is how much he still misses being in Dream Theater.

The closest thing he has done to Dream Theater is Labyrinth and Opus Maximus. Those songs show Sons of Apollo has it in them to be Prog-Metal. If their are more songs like that on the new album, I'll likely listen to them more.

Although it is pretty wild Blabbermouth put the blame on the forums.

I agree completely with this and he probably cant deal with how popular they still are and how much good music they have produced since he left.

Could be. Could be the music style. As is why I said Sons of Apollo has it in them to be akin to what he had in Dream Theater, even better for him since he can do what he couldn't do while he was still in the band.

[bill1971]

I think he probably regrets leaving. To me, it just seems like for him it is quantity over quality. Not saying his projects aren't quality, but it's rarely what he talks about. It's always how many bands he is in or how many albums he has done. That seems to be very important to him judging by his comments.

[lovethedrake]

Now THAT article makes Portnoy look pretty terrible!     

I disagree and think that article actually is fine (other than being a bit revisionist with regard to his departure from A7X, but I'll leave that aside).  It highlights and clarifies a lot about what was probably the biggest underlying reason why he and DT reached an impasse.  All the members were always free to do whatever they wanted outside of DT, provided that DT came first and whatever else they were doing did not conflict with DT's plans.  MP at that time felt that he was burned out on DT and needed to put himself first and do some other things.  That is inconsistent with how the band had operated.  I think he mistakenly felt that they would agree that what he needed was also best for the band as a whole.  But in most bands with strong leadership, I think it is obvious that the band needs to come first, and side projects, guest appearances, etc. need to fit the band's schedule, or else they are a no-go.  Had MP given it some thought, he should have realized this and come to that same conclusion.  And maybe he did, but still felt so strongly that he was right that he didn't care.  But he again seemed to be so surprised that the band didn't go along with what he wanted that I don't think so.  But anyhow, going back to the whole "DT burned MP" thing, this is another instance of his own words disproving that. 

It's also interesting that we see him basically do the same thing twice in a short timeframe.  He basically went to DT and said, "I know the agreement was that we're going into the studio in January [I think it was January, right?], but I want to change the agreement."  He didn't want to go along with what everyone had previously agreed to and unilaterally made a decision contrary to that agreement.  A short time later, he went to the A7X guys and said, "I know the agreement was for me to work with you guys for a limited term, which is about to expire, but I want to change the agreement and be a permanent member."  As with the DT situation, the A7X guys couldn't fathom why MP thought he could unilaterally change the agreement, and they understandably didn't go along with what he wanted.  It's interesting that he kind of tries to change the narrative on the A7X departure now, despite what he and they said at the time.

So.. how does this NOT make Portnoy look terrible?   

[MirrorMask]

More like Nopus Maximus

Ironically, I like the instrumental sections in those songs more than when JSS "annoying" vocals are singing. (He's not annoying, I actually enjoy his singing in those songs)

And I consider Labyrinth to be yet another case of a song that has to stop to make room for seemingly endless minutes of random soloing, disjointed from the mood of the song, like it was happening in the latest DT albums with Portnoy and basically stopped (or was more self contained and more in tune with the mood of the song) after he left.

[bosk1]

Now THAT article makes Portnoy look pretty terrible!     

I disagree and think that article actually is fine (other than being a bit revisionist with regard to his departure from A7X, but I'll leave that aside).  It highlights and clarifies a lot about what was probably the biggest underlying reason why he and DT reached an impasse.  All the members were always free to do whatever they wanted outside of DT, provided that DT came first and whatever else they were doing did not conflict with DT's plans.  MP at that time felt that he was burned out on DT and needed to put himself first and do some other things.  That is inconsistent with how the band had operated.  I think he mistakenly felt that they would agree that what he needed was also best for the band as a whole.  But in most bands with strong leadership, I think it is obvious that the band needs to come first, and side projects, guest appearances, etc. need to fit the band's schedule, or else they are a no-go.  Had MP given it some thought, he should have realized this and come to that same conclusion.  And maybe he did, but still felt so strongly that he was right that he didn't care.  But he again seemed to be so surprised that the band didn't go along with what he wanted that I don't think so.  But anyhow, going back to the whole "DT burned MP" thing, this is another instance of his own words disproving that. 

It's also interesting that we see him basically do the same thing twice in a short timeframe.  He basically went to DT and said, "I know the agreement was that we're going into the studio in January [I think it was January, right?], but I want to change the agreement."  He didn't want to go along with what everyone had previously agreed to and unilaterally made a decision contrary to that agreement.  A short time later, he went to the A7X guys and said, "I know the agreement was for me to work with you guys for a limited term, which is about to expire, but I want to change the agreement and be a permanent member."  As with the DT situation, the A7X guys couldn't fathom why MP thought he could unilaterally change the agreement, and they understandably didn't go along with what he wanted.  It's interesting that he kind of tries to change the narrative on the A7X departure now, despite what he and they said at the time.

So.. how does this NOT make Portnoy look terrible?   

I just explained that.  You said that it does.  How does it? 

[lovethedrake]

haha... do I really have to explain this?

He quit DT thinking that he would be accepted as a full time drummer to Avenged Sevenfold and they thought it was ridiculous for him to assume that.  He was also painted as overdramatic and too much for them to handle.   He brought drama to the band at a tough time.   
 
He changed the narrative over time on the departure from Avenged Sevenfold etc...

It's the reason people are posting the below comment... because it makes Portnoy look bad and is a funny analogy.

"Mike left his wife (Dream Theater) because he was overexcited due to an affair with a young damaged and vulnerable woman (Avenged Sevenfold) so he tried to lay claim on the young damaged woman but she never took him seriously because she wanted a young man as her permanent lover. She rejected Mike's offer to be the next woman he would cheat on, so Mike went groveling back to his wife (Dream Theater.) Mike's wife had already found a new man who appreciated her and would make her his whole world, so Mike became the Hugh Hefner of metal and is now bragging that he has 40 illegitimate children with 35 different mothers as opposed to Dream Theater's 4 new children that have both their parents and a stable home life."

[lovethedrake]

Also, this quote itself makes Portnoy look bad

"And he told us, 'Hey, I've got good news and bad news. I quit DREAM THEATER.' We were like, 'Oh, no. Well, if you're happy, then that's good.' [And he was like], 'Now I can be with you guys.' And we were like, 'That's not necessarily what we decided upon. And you should take your time and reconsider.' And he was like, 'Well, I put out my press release.' We were like, 'Dude, that's not how we do business. You should have talked to us before."

[Samsara]

I think he probably regrets leaving. To me, it just seems like for him it is quantity over quality. Not saying his projects aren't quality, but it's rarely what he talks about. It's always how many bands he is in or how many albums he has done. That seems to be very important to him judging by his comments.

My personal belief is Mike Portnoy regretted leaving Dream Theater the moment he said he was done with them. He's been scrambling from project to project since then, and I am sure he enjoys his work. But he tried to get back (if I remember correctly) more than once, and he's said how DT was his "baby" so many times over the years, it's pretty damn obvious he knows he screwed up. And he probably also knows he's got almost no shot of ever returning, and it eats at him, daily, as nothing he has done since then has any shot in hell of ever being as successful as Dream Theater.

To be quite honest, as sensitive as Mike is, that has to hurt -- A LOT. He most likely has to hustle and work a TON more than he used to, in order to keep some semblance of the same income level. Whereas he watches the DT guys, who work out of the want to work outside of DT -- they likely don't have to if they don't want to. And that likely gets MP mad, jealous, sad, and spiteful, all at the same time.

Honestly, MP brought this on himself, so it is tough to feel bad for him, particularly the way he has carried himself. But a part of me still does feel bad. He made a grave mistake, one that he'll never get over, and he watches something he helped build (much more than the drumming and lyric writing) thrive, while he's jumping from thing to thing and working like a dog to keep the lifestyle he had prior to the split. And he's not getting any younger. The mega touring and being on the road with a gazillion projects can only go on for so long.

MP had the absolute perfect scenario, and then he made the mistake of thinking he was more important than he really was, and gambled. He lost. And no matter how hard he works, he'll never attain the status that he had with Dream Theater.

The romantic in me wants a reconciliation between all of them. But Dream Theater (and their mgmt, I am sure) know that they are doing great without MP, and introducing a wild card back into the mix, with that personality, is a risk that isn't worth taking, given their success. They don't need Mike Portnoy. But sadly, Mike Portnoy needs them (to feel complete, for lack of a better way to express it), and it is too late. And he doesn't make it easier with screw-ups like this interview.

[lovethedrake]

I think he probably regrets leaving. To me, it just seems like for him it is quantity over quality. Not saying his projects aren't quality, but it's rarely what he talks about. It's always how many bands he is in or how many albums he has done. That seems to be very important to him judging by his comments.

My personal belief is Mike Portnoy regretted leaving Dream Theater the moment he said he was done with them. He's been scrambling from project to project since then, and I am sure he enjoys his work. But he tried to get back (if I remember correctly) more than once, and he's said how DT was his "baby" so many times over the years, it's pretty damn obvious he knows he screwed up. And he probably also knows he's got almost no shot of ever returning, and it eats at him, daily, as nothing he has done since then has any shot in hell of ever being as successful as Dream Theater.

To be quite honest, as sensitive as Mike is, that has to hurt -- A LOT. He most likely has to hustle and work a TON more than he used to, in order to keep some semblance of the same income level. Whereas he watches the DT guys, who work out of the want to work outside of DT -- they likely don't have to if they don't want to. And that likely gets MP mad, jealous, sad, and spiteful, all at the same time.

Honestly, MP brought this on himself, so it is tough to feel bad for him, particularly the way he has carried himself. But a part of me still does feel bad. He made a grave mistake, one that he'll never get over, and he watches something he helped build (much more than the drumming and lyric writing) thrive, while he's jumping from thing to thing and working like a dog to keep the lifestyle he had prior to the split. And he's not getting any younger. The mega touring and being on the road with a gazillion projects can only go on for so long.

MP had the absolute perfect scenario, and then he made the mistake of thinking he was more important than he really was, and gambled. He lost. And no matter how hard he works, he'll never attain the status that he had with Dream Theater.

The romantic in me wants a reconciliation between all of them. But Dream Theater (and their mgmt, I am sure) know that they are doing great without MP, and introducing a wild card back into the mix, with that personality, is a risk that isn't worth taking, given their success. They don't need Mike Portnoy. But sadly, Mike Portnoy needs them (to feel complete, for lack of a better way to express it), and it is too late. And he doesn't make it easier with screw-ups like this interview.

Of course we can never know for sure what MP is actually thinking or going through emotionally, but if you asked me how I would guess he is feeling... I think your post sums it up perfectly.

I do feel bad for him.... people make mistakes and he made a bad one.   It hurts me just thinking about.

[ariich]

Seriously? Come on! There are two major FACTS surrounding that statement which makes its interpretation very easy and straightforward:

(I) He asks if they are "on air" and get really shocked when being replied yes!
(II) We all know the bad blood and disrupted relationship between MP and JLB!     

This is pretty much the dictionary definition of confirmation bias.

Stadler is right that we don't know how Mike intended his remark.

BUT

Bosk is more right (he usually is) that regardless of what Mike meant and whether it was supposed to be a joke about fans, he really should know better about how his words get taken.

Personally, I find it quite ironic that this was part of a discussion about fan reactions to things and how the fanbase over-analyses everything, and we've had pages of analysis here to discuss it.

[lonestar]

Personally, I find it quite ironic that this was part of a discussion about fan reactions to things and how the fanbase over-analyses everything, and we've had pages of analysis here to discuss it.

It's the only thing we truly excel at.

[Ben_Jamin]

Seriously? Come on! There are two major FACTS surrounding that statement which makes its interpretation very easy and straightforward:

(I) He asks if they are "on air" and get really shocked when being replied yes!
(II) We all know the bad blood and disrupted relationship between MP and JLB!     

This is pretty much the dictionary definition of confirmation bias.

Stadler is right that we don't know how Mike intended his remark.

BUT

Bosk is more right (he usually is) that regardless of what Mike meant and whether it was supposed to be a joke about fans, he really should know better about how his words get taken.

Personally, I find it quite ironic that this was part of a discussion about fan reactions to things and how the fanbase over-analyses everything, and we've had pages of analysis here to discuss it.

I dont think I've seen this side of the forum this active in a whole.