If You Believe In The Supernatural, Do You Have To Believe In God?

[Tick]

This was a topic amongst friends recently. I believe in God, and the Supernatural so for me the answer is yes. To the non believer, is the Supernatural bunk and just doesn't exist?
If you believe their are Supernatural occurrences that take place on earth, would you have to believe that God is real to believe in the Supernatural, or do you think it could exist with no God?
Discuss.

[Adami]

This was a topic amongst friends recently. I believe in God, and the Supernatural so for me the answer is yes. To the non believer, is the Supernatural bunk and just doesn't exist?
If you believe their are Supernatural occurrences that take place on earth, would you have to believe that God is real to believe in the Supernatural, or do you think it could exist with no God?
Discuss.

I don't see a necessary connection between the two. In fact, I think the only reason god gets shoe horned into so many things is because we're a mostly christian planet.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

What do you mean when you say 'supernatural'? Ghosts and shit? If so, I don't believe in them.

But I don't think one can assume that the two are mutually exclusive. There are people out there who believe in ghosts but don't believe in God, and vice versa

[Tick]

What do you mean when you say 'supernatural'? Ghosts and shit? If so, I don't believe in them.

But I don't think one can assume that the two are mutually exclusive. There are people out there who believe in ghosts but don't believe in God, and vice versa

You don't know what the Supernatural is? Yeah, "ghosts and shit."
Anyhow, it would seem illogical to me personally for a Supernatural realm to exist without a creator. I cant wrap my brain on how that could be? Since we exist in the natural, and God is Supernatural, I think a creator would exist. That's my opinion anyhow.
If we were formed by a big bang I doubt there would be a Supernatural realm. That doesn't make any sense to me.
To each his own.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

There are some people out there though who totally believe Vampires exist, but have such a hard time believe that God could exist.

[Tick]

There are some people out there though who totally believe Vampires exist, but have such a hard time believe that God could exist.

and thus the reason drugs should remain illegal.

[Adami]

The only reason one would assume that a creator is necessary for the supernatural is if one assumes a creator is necessary for the natural world.

If one doesn't need a god, neither does the other.

[Tick]

The only reason one would assume that a creator is necessary for the supernatural is if one assumes a creator is necessary for the natural world.

If one doesn't need a god, neither does the other.

Obviously, I do not agree.

[Adami]

The only reason one would assume that a creator is necessary for the supernatural is if one assumes a creator is necessary for the natural world.

If one doesn't need a god, neither does the other.

Obviously, I do not agree.

Oh god I wish I had an arthur emoticon right now.

[Tick]

The only reason one would assume that a creator is necessary for the supernatural is if one assumes a creator is necessary for the natural world.

If one doesn't need a god, neither does the other.

Obviously, I do not agree.

Oh god I wish I had an arthur emoticon right now.

Does this help ya?

[Adami]

Oh god yes. I'm going to use that when I can.

[yeshaberto]

I had raised a similar question some time ago with the idea of the soul or spirit.  In my limited understanding of non-theism, a soul or spirit would contradict the idea that everything is physical.  The answer I got was that there isn't necessarily a soul, but if there was it would challenge the non-theist's position.

[Adami]

I had raised a similar question some time ago with the idea of the soul or spirit.  In my limited understanding of non-theism, a soul or spirit would contradict the idea that everything is physical.  The answer I got was that there isn't necessarily a soul, but if there was it would challenge the non-theist's position.

Not all non theists believe that everything is physical. Look at me, I am agnostic, but I don't believe the physical world to be the primary form of existence. I very much believe in the metaphysical, just no god.

[yeshaberto]

I had raised a similar question some time ago with the idea of the soul or spirit.  In my limited understanding of non-theism, a soul or spirit would contradict the idea that everything is physical.  The answer I got was that there isn't necessarily a soul, but if there was it would challenge the non-theist's position.

Not all non theists believe that everything is physical. Look at me, I am agnostic, but I don't believe the physical world to be the primary form of existence. I very much believe in the metaphysical, just no god.

how would evolution explain the existence of something non-physical?

[Adami]

I had raised a similar question some time ago with the idea of the soul or spirit.  In my limited understanding of non-theism, a soul or spirit would contradict the idea that everything is physical.  The answer I got was that there isn't necessarily a soul, but if there was it would challenge the non-theist's position.

Not all non theists believe that everything is physical. Look at me, I am agnostic, but I don't believe the physical world to be the primary form of existence. I very much believe in the metaphysical, just no god.

how would evolution explain the existence of something non-physical?

Why would it have to?

[Tick]

I had raised a similar question some time ago with the idea of the soul or spirit.  In my limited understanding of non-theism, a soul or spirit would contradict the idea that everything is physical.  The answer I got was that there isn't necessarily a soul, but if there was it would challenge the non-theist's position.

Not all non theists believe that everything is physical. Look at me, I am agnostic, but I don't believe the physical world to be the primary form of existence. I very much believe in the metaphysical, just no god.

I want you to explain your belief in sensible terms so I understand the reason why?

[Tick]

If everything that is came to be from a spec of dust that exploded, from a big bang theory if you will, it would result in a physical or natural realm. That makes logical sense. What doesn't make sense is a big bang manifesting into a Supernatural spirit realm. How would the Supernatural come from the strictly natural? I want a logical answer to that question?

[eric42434224]

Perhaps there is no "supernatural", but only "natural" phenomena that we are as of yet unable to explain or observe.

[Tick]

Perhaps there is no "supernatural", but only "natural" phenomena that we are as of yet unable to explain or observe.

Please make sense of that statement. Don't just say that, explain it?

[j]

Made sense to me.  He's suggesting that things some might attribute to "supernatural" causes are in fact natural phenomena that we don't currently understand.

-J

[Sigz]

If everything that is came to be from a spec of dust that exploded, from a big bang theory if you will, it would result in a physical or natural realm. That makes logical sense. What doesn't make sense is a big bang manifesting into a Supernatural spirit realm. How would the Supernatural come from the strictly natural? I want a logical answer to that question?

You're creating a false choice between belief in god and the big bang. It's entirely possible to not believe in either and still hold belief in the supernatural.

[Tick]

Made sense to me.  He's suggesting that things some might attribute to "supernatural" causes are in fact natural phenomena that we don't currently understand.

-J

How are ghosts and spirits a natural phenomena?
Nevermind, whatever you say won't make sense anyhow.

[GuineaPig]

Perhaps there is no "supernatural", but only "natural" phenomena that we are as of yet unable to explain or observe.

Please make sense of that statement. Don't just say that, explain it?

Ask Scully.

[j]

Made sense to me.  He's suggesting that things some might attribute to "supernatural" causes are in fact natural phenomena that we don't currently understand.

-J

How are ghosts and spirits a natural phenomena?

The point is, we don't know.  Maybe they do exist and are supernatural phenomena.  Following eric's line of reasoning, maybe they're not real and the reasons people "perceive" them or think they perceive them have complex neurological mechanisms that aren't fully understood?

-J

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Perhaps there is no "supernatural", but only "natural" phenomena that we are as of yet unable to explain or observe.

Please make sense of that statement. Don't just say that, explain it?

It seems like he explained it in that post. We label things as 'supernatural' because we can't explain them.

[Chino]

the reasons people "perceive" them or think they perceive them have complex neurological mechanisms that aren't fully understood?

-J

On the first episode of Through the Worm Hole, they demonstrated this very point. The hypothesis was that there is actually a section in our brain that created "God". It was a mechanism to help people cope with the idea of death, since we are the first species to understand and think about an end. Anyway, in the show, the researcher had a helmet that would stimulate different areas of the brain. When the "God" section part of the brain was stimulated, the people being studied said they felt as though someone was with them. Not just with them mentally, they felt like someone was standing in the room with them, even though they thought they were isolated (which they were).

[hefdaddy42]

I don't see why a belief in the supernatural requires a belief in a Creator or in God.

[Rafael Guerra]

At the same time that topics like this completely fascinate me, sometimes I wish wish I could be a little less curious. To answer the question, I personally think that nature itself is a very complicated system and while the human race has made some groundbreaking intellectual achievements to understand it, there are things that we will just never be able to explain. While science might make sense to us, it's a human-race interpretation of nature. For example, as I read Chino's comment on "Through the wormhole", it reminded me of the long debate between whether or not we have souls or we are just entirely controlled by the moles and chemical reactions in our brains. At one point, it really challenged my faith because to us, humans, science seems to be the ultimate truth. Turns out that it could be, but science is also a "kid" taking in consideration it's fairly recent. The other day, I was reading a theology/science article talking about the topic and how souls could be a packet of photon particles that are linked through our body via the electromagnetic waves sent by the neurons (sorry if I am saying total nonsense in here, I am no scientist!), it's still a recent theory, but it does connect science and religion and offers a different interpretation of what we could be all about. In short note, I don't think one HAS to believe in God in order to believe in other phenomena, but I do believe they are somehow connected, and I don't think it's just all created by the brain.

P.S - I think this is my first post ever in this section, I like reading it, but I am not great at debating. I did feel quite interested/disturbed by this topic though.

[Tick]

I don't see why a belief in the supernatural requires a belief in a Creator or in God.

and I can't see it any other way. So is anyone right or wrong? No, not if you want concrete proof.
Man has determined he has arrived at a place where he is smart enough to debunk and reason away anything scientifically, and thus making himself God in a sense.
Faith has no place in the world of science and in an increasingly more cynical godless world that wants to be part of that intellectual mindset.
I can't convince anyone to believe as I do, because I have no scientific or tangible evidence to prove God exists. You believe it or you don't.
What I believe and its just my view based on my own logic is science is based on the natural realm where everything deals in absolutes, therefore God does not exist.
A Supernatural realm has no scientific based fact so all they can say it their are factors and phenomena we may not understand that can cause Supernatural occurrences.
That is a crock and a cop out. Science is so cock sure of itself in debunking the existence of God, but comes up with lame non factual explanations for things they don't have the answers for.
Nice.

[j]

What?

Tick, faith aside, surely you acknowledge that not everything people think they experience but don't understand is "supernatural"?

No real scientist "deals in absolutes".  Science can't say anything about the existence or non-existence of God, and doesn't attempt to.  People who try to base their belief or lack thereof on science are mistaken and don't understand the way science works (although I know a lot of people do it).

-J

[Vivace]

What's in the word, 'Supernatural'? Well you have the prefix super which in this case means "above" nature or perhaps it can refer to which is outside of nature or ex-natural. When you talk about God you MUST refer to the supernatural as God is above that which is nature. When you talk about the supernatural you do not have to refer to God insofar that you are still above nature but under God, if that makes sense. When Catholics talk about the supernatural they are in effect referring to God as the object of their discussion in the supernatural is God, however for others, the object of the supernatural could be ESP, or telepathy or ghosts if you will. These are objects of the supernatural but are not necessarily objects directly pertaining to God.

[Vivace]

The only reason one would assume that a creator is necessary for the supernatural is if one assumes a creator is necessary for the natural world.

If one doesn't need a god, neither does the other.

If we are to assume that nature and supernatural comes from a singular source then one must posit the idea that God is a necessity for nature and supernatural insofar that both would not exist without the creator. We are assume that nature and supernatural are independant of a creator then we need on posit the idea of a creator as the existance of either is without creation. A belief in the supernatural CAN also infer a belief in God, but as we have seen people believe in nature and not believe in God as well. They do so by not seeing the true universal in nature much the same a person who believes in the supernatural but not God does not see the true universal in the supernatural.

[Tick]

What?

Tick, faith aside, surely you acknowledge that not everything people think they experience but don't understand is "supernatural"?

No real scientist "deals in absolutes".  Science can't say anything about the existence or non-existence of God, and doesn't attempt to.  People who try to base their belief or lack thereof on science are mistaken and don't understand the way science works (although I know a lot of people do it).

-J

People have mental illness and can have irregularities with their brains so of course not all things a person can experience would be Supernatural. I just don't see how any big bang theory or however you think we came to be lends itself to a spirit realm.
We all have are own views and debating rarely changes anyone's mind. Agree with me or consider me nuts, its your choice. Either way, I can live with it.

[hefdaddy42]

You're nuts.

But so am I, so let's have a beer.

[Tick]

You're nuts.

But so am I, so let's have a beer.

Works for me!