Peter Gabriel Appreciation Thread

[Max Kuehnau]

Peter Gabriel is totally awesome.... his records with Genesis are fantastic and so are his solo albums.

Soo glad that I got to see him live 3 times:

- Secret World Live 1993-04-13 - THE best concert I have ever seen. Totally amazing from start to finish, both musically and as a show.

- Growing Up Live 2003-04-24 - Very good, but can't hold a candle to SWL

- Back to Front ' 2014-05-22 - Still good but prefer the two earlier



The only complaint I have is that he has released too few albums....

probably but I personally love almost all of them

[Dave_Manchester]

I agree he hasn't released many albums, but like Stadler suggested earlier there's a tonne of other goodies waiting to be mined if/when he ever re-releases his albums. Some of his b-sides and non-album tracks are fantastic. Curtains, Don't Break This Rhythm, Courage, Across the River, Soft Dog (interesting and eerily beautiful soundscape from the Security sessions, it fits the mood of that album perfectly and would make a fantastic closing bonus track), Wild (instrumental track from the Up sessions), Walk Through The Fire, and many more odds and sods. His vault is reportedly stacked with stuff. I'd love him to do what King Crimson do and release bells and whistles versions of his first 4 albums, complete with outtakes, b-sides, live performances (Gabriel always brought an amazing freshness to his songs live, sometimes looking at them from a completely different angle; listen for example to No Self Control on the Plays Live disc), demos, etc.

[goo-goo]

Is there like a B-side compilation available?

[Stadler]

Up's defintely a fantastic album, and if it ends up being the one that caps his career it'll be a fine way to end it.

A top 10 is all-but impossible for me, the best I can do is 15. In chronological order (* indicates top 5):

1. Moribund the Burgermeister
2. Humdrum (*)
3. Here Comes The Flood
4. On The Air (live version on Plays Live is fanastic too)
5. DIY (as above)
6. Home Sweet Home
7. The Rhythm of the Heat
8. San Jacinto (*)
9. Lay Your Hands On Me (*)
10. Red Rain
11. Mercy Street (*)
12. In Your Eyes
13.Secret World (* - live version on Secret World Live may be his single finest moment)
14. I Grieve
15. Signal To Noise

And even that kills me to leave off songs like White Shadow, Mother of Violence, Family Snapshot, Not One Of Us, No Self Control, Intruder, Biko, Wallflower, Love to be Loved, Digging In The Dirt, Downside-Up, Father Son, Make Tomorrow, Darkness, Sky Blue, My Head Sounds Like That...

PG 2 (Scratch) seems to be the runt of the litter with most fans but I absolutely love it. It has a really cool 'low-fi' feel that I like, especially coming after the 'everything but the kitchen sink' approach he took on his debut, where it seems to me he was eager to explore all the music he hadn't been able to in Genesis (barbershop quartet, jazz, orchestral), with...'interesting' results, if a little bit messy. The debut sprawls, it's like a huge feast, whereas PG2 feels like some cool little record he recorded in his basement during a quiet moment.

Dave, are you aware of the back story to Scratch?   Well, there are two, one confirmed, one... only hinted at. 

The confirmed:  there was a trilogy of albums planned, all produced by Robert Fripp.  Peter's second album, Fripp's Exposure, and Daryl Hall - yes, THAT Daryl Hall - Sacred Songs.  Several songs overlapped (Exposure was on PG's album and on Fripp's; Here Comes The Flood was on Exposure, and I think there were four songs on Hall's record that turned up on Exposure).    Hall's management/record company put the kibosh on the whole endeavor, saying that the Hall record wasn't "commercial enough" and burying it for I think like four years.   I've heard Hall talk about it a couple times in recent years (once on Dan Rather's interview, and once on his "Live From Daryl's House" when Ben Folds asked him about it) and he's extremely bitter about it even today.   It was a legitimate artistic statement and a stab at - for lack of a better word - artistic integrity, and the business overwhelmed that.   Robert Fripp has said multiple times that Hall is the best pure singer he's ever worked with, bar none. 

The hinted:  the "Mozo" concept.  It came about in "On The Air", but is hinted at thematically in several songs, from the first album up through So.   It was a character, not terribly far from Rael in the lamb (some of the themes are similar) and was to ultimately be a broader artistic statement, including a movie and/or a play with the character as a centerpiece.  The songs we know that reference Mozo are "On The Air", "Here Comes The Flood", "Down The Dolce Vita", "Exposure", "Red Rain" and possibly "That Voice Again".  Some speculation includes songs off Up as well ("Signal To Noise" and possibly "Darkness") as well, though all unconfirmed (and the more obsessive PG fans have basically been able to tie almost every song to Mozo, and that's just not what was intended.)

This is informative, but in my opinion, takes as fact too many things that are mere speculation:  https://andrewdubber.com/2015/02/the-birth-of-mozo/

[Stadler]

Is there like a B-side compilation available?

There is not.    And to Dave's point, when Peter put together the massive "So" re-release, he explicitly and purposefully did NOT include the b-sides and outtakes.  I can't find it right now, but I remember reading a fairly extensive treatise on his approach to that, and he simply does not want to look back.  Even the re-released material, he wants to play with and fuck with to bring it current.   

Honestly, I do not believe we will see a comprehensive anthology from Peter during his lifetime (or at least his active music career).    And also to Dave's point, that's a shame, because some of those songs are hidden gems.  For example, there are four different, official releases of "I Have The Touch" (not counting live releases, of which there is at least one).  The hardest one to find - the one for the movie "Phenomenon" - is, in my opinoin, by far the best, and it deserves a more proper, in context release.   

As I said above, Phil too. 

[goo-goo]

PG just released a bunch of his solo stuff through Bandcamp

https://petergabriel.bandcamp.com/music

[Stadler]

PG just released a bunch of his solo stuff through Bandcamp

https://petergabriel.bandcamp.com/music

That's a hell of a track list.  Three CDs, not everything but pretty darn close (and that's not a criticism; some stuff was released on the 30th So release, and on the "Rated PG" soundtrack release). 

[goo-goo]

The Flotsam release has like 60 tracks. Are you getting the Flotsam and Rated PG releases?

[Stadler]

The Flotsam release has like 60 tracks. Are you getting the Flotsam and Rated PG releases?

Likely both.

[ytserush]

The Flotsam release has like 60 tracks. Are you getting the Flotsam and Rated PG releases?

Is this stuff new or previously unreleased?

[Stadler]

The Flotsam release has like 60 tracks. Are you getting the Flotsam and Rated PG releases?

Is this stuff new or previously unreleased?

B-Sides and Soundtrack stuff.  Some of it is... very Peter (i.e. weird) but some of it is essential.  You need that version of "I Have The Touch", for example.

[Fritzinger]

I love Peter Gabriel, but I have to admit that him tooling his fans has annoyed me that much by now that I lost my interest a little. 5 or 6 years ago, I surely would have listened to those 60 tracks on repeat, simply because I couldn't wait for new PG material. But even to the "really" new songs (I'm Amazing, The Veil), I have listened to like 2-3 times only. It's very admirable that he is helping people and doing charity work... BUT GAWDAMNIT PETER stop getting involved in 87 different things and finish your new album.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Peter Gabriel is a top 5 artist for me. His music means so much to me it's ridiculous.

It's about damn time he releases a new album but I find his music so good that I can just play anything he's put out and I'll be happy.

[KevShmev]

Peter Gabriel is a top 5 artist for me. His music means so much to me it's ridiculous.

It's about damn time he releases a new album but I find his music so good that I can just play anything he's put out and I'll be happy.

If he releases a new album, I will be pleased as punch, but I am not counting on it considering it has been 17 years since his last proper studio album of original material. 

But like you said, between the early Genesis and his solo records, he has more than enough great stuff to keep this fan happy. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Peter Gabriel is a top 5 artist for me. His music means so much to me it's ridiculous.

It's about damn time he releases a new album but I find his music so good that I can just play anything he's put out and I'll be happy.

If he releases a new album, I will be pleased as punch, but I am not counting on it considering it has been 17 years since his last proper studio album of original material. 

But like you said, between the early Genesis and his solo records, he has more than enough great stuff to keep this fan happy. 

Agreed, I'm not counting on it either but a man can dream.

Up has been in my heavy rotation these past few weeks. Signal to Noise is so fuckn' good.

[KevShmev]

Signal to Noise is definitely great stuff. Up is probably my favorite solo record of his, and has my two favorite PG solo tunes: Sky Blue and I Grieve. Both of those songs are just .

[ytserush]

The Flotsam release has like 60 tracks. Are you getting the Flotsam and Rated PG releases?

Is this stuff new or previously unreleased?

B-Sides and Soundtrack stuff.  Some of it is... very Peter (i.e. weird) but some of it is essential.  You need that version of "I Have The Touch", for example.

Don't mind the "very Peter" stuff at all. Suppose I should look into this.

[HOF]

Very cool long read on the writing and recording of PG3/Melt in honor of its 40th anniversary.

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/no-self-control-oral-history-peter-gabriel-iii?fbclid=IwAR0tzyfiBr9--5g2XudeiUvj4R_usw1LVRss4wYHHaNmtbelHh7znnq1yE8

Edit: And I'm gonna give Melt a listen now.

Edit edit: In the article, Lillywhite is dismissive of And Through The Wire, which does stick out a little bit from the rest of the album environment. But it's kind of a cool and unique track in its own right. I don't know how I feel about the cowbell, but PG's vocals are quite raw and expressive, and I generally find it catchy for lack of a better term.

[KevShmev]

Pretty much all of Melt is great.  I wouldn't want to be without any of the songs.

[HOF]

Pretty much all of Melt is great.  I wouldn't want to be without any of the songs.

I've listened to it three times today. It's definitely (in my opinion) the strongest of the 4 untitled albums  (though I also really like Security). I could probably be convinced it's his best all around solo effort, though I have a very high view of So as well.

[Stadler]

Security
Us
Car
So
Melt
Scratch
Up

(I could easily switch Scratch and Up, but I'm far more familiar with Scratch so it gets the nod). 

[Max Kuehnau]

Pretty much all of Melt is great.  I wouldn't want to be without any of the songs.

still one of my favourites by him (thanks to PC as well)

[KevShmev]

I think Security is slightly better than Melt, but it's a tougher listen if that makes sense. Those two and Up stand far above all other PG studio albums, IMO.

[Fritzinger]

Here's a very unpopular opinion: I think, Scratch My Back is Peter Gabriel's best album.

[HOF]

Here's a very unpopular opinion: I think, Scratch My Back is Peter Gabriel's best album.

Scratch My Back is really great.

[ytserush]

Here's a very unpopular opinion: I think, Scratch My Back is Peter Gabriel's best album.

Scratch My Back is really great.

I think so too.

[HOF]

Listening to Steven Wilson and Tim Bowness talk about Us on their podcast just now. Bowness likes it but Wilson thinks it's PG's weakest album (which is obviously wrong, PG 1 and 2 exist). But they both agree it's too long. Bowness also points to how much better "Quiet Steam" is than "Steam." Having given it a closer listen just now I have to agree. That's a really cool track, and I never really cared for Steam anyway.

I do think there is a lot of great stuff on Us, but I see where it suffers a bit from being too high tech (for the time) and also having some filler (gotta take advantage of the CD format!). Not to mention trying to recreate Sledgehammer with Steam. It's less than 60 minutes, but I don't think it would hurt to drop some of the filler. The three I'd go without are Steam, Only Us, and Kiss That Frog. But I'd add back Quiet Steam to get it to an even 8 tracks and just over 46 minutes. LP length.

So this was my abridged Us that I came up with:

1. Come Talk to Me
2. Love to be Loved
3. Blood of Eden*
4. Digging in the Dirt*
5. Washing of the Water*
6. Quiet Steam
7. Fourteen Black Paintings
8. Secret World

You have the two more poppy songs to open, then the * songs kind of (to me) have a common theme/story arch of loss/fall>confronting evil/working through your shit>cleansing/recovery. Then you get these two quiet soundscape type tracks before the more upbeat closer. I also think that Come Talk to Me and Secret World are meant to bookend the album as a sort of conflict/resolution thing, so definitely keeping that.

I think all 8 of those tracks are really strong in their own right, and without the filler I do think the album flows better and has a little more impact.

[Zydar]

Bowness likes it but Wilson thinks it's PG's weakest album (which is obviously wrong, PG 1 and 2 exist).

What the hell, PG1 is his best one!

[HOF]

Bowness likes it but Wilson thinks it's PG's weakest album (which is obviously wrong, PG 1 and 2 exist).

What the hell, PG1 is his best one!

I actually like PG 1 better than I used to. Some great songs like Solsbury Hill, Humdrum. But it has this weird 70s movie soundtrack vibe that I don't like. The best example off the top of my head is the Rocky them song.

[Fritzinger]

I really like PGII. It's far from my favorite, but it has that fragility that I haven't found on any other PG album, or many albums by other artists.

[Stadler]

Huh; big fans of both PG I and US.

- Peter Gabriel IV
- Us
- Peter Gabriel I
- So
- Peter Gabriel III
- Peter Gabriel II
- Up (2002)
- Scratch My Back (2010)
- New Blood (2011)

I love that sound of PG I; I call it the "Ezrin" sound on that.  Solsbury Hill is one of my favorite Gabriel tunes ever, and Modern Love is up there too.  It's only third because the songs aren't quite as strong as on IV and Us.  Blood of Eden is also a strong favorite; the mood and atmosphere of that song is breathtaking to me.

EDIT:  I meant to put numbers in; my list is in order, from favorite to least favorite.

[HOF]

Huh; big fans of both PG I and US.

- Peter Gabriel IV
- Us
- Peter Gabriel I
- So
- Peter Gabriel III
- Peter Gabriel II
- Up (2002)
- Scratch My Back (2010)
- New Blood (2011)

I love that sound of PG I; I call it the "Ezrin" sound on that.  Solsbury Hill is one of my favorite Gabriel tunes ever, and Modern Love is up there too.  It's only third because the songs aren't quite as strong as on IV and Us.  Blood of Eden is also a strong favorite; the mood and atmosphere of that song is breathtaking to me.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Us as well. Blood of Eden is magnificent. Also, along with Digging in the Dirt it sort of answered the question of "what would you say you do here?" that I had for David Rhodes. ;-) Love the guitar work on each.

[KevShmev]

Us is a funny one for me as I was unfamiliar with most of it until I bought the Secret World Live concert DVD (still one of my favorites), so I got used to a lot of those songs through the live versions, and then many of the studio versions then felt a bit lacking in comparison.  Blood of Eden is the one from it where I always go for the studio version, but when it comes to Steam, Come Talk to Me, Washing of the Water, Secret World, Kiss That Frog and Digging in the Dirt, I always go straight for the live versions from Secret World Live.

[HOF]

Us is a funny one for me as I was unfamiliar with most of it until I bought the Secret World Live concert DVD (still one of my favorites), so I got used to a lot of those songs through the live versions, and then many of the studio versions then felt a bit lacking in comparison.  Blood of Eden is the one from it where I always go for the studio version, but when it comes to Steam, Come Talk to Me, Washing of the Water, Secret World, Kiss That Frog and Digging in the Dirt, I always go straight for the live versions from Secret World Live.

You know, I came by Us after Secret World Live as well, and I agree the performances are more lively on Secret World Live (which is not all that live as I understand it). I think a big part of that is Paula Cole's backing vocals, as well as Manu Katche being able to cut loose.

[romdrums]

Us is a funny one for me as I was unfamiliar with most of it until I bought the Secret World Live concert DVD (still one of my favorites), so I got used to a lot of those songs through the live versions, and then many of the studio versions then felt a bit lacking in comparison.  Blood of Eden is the one from it where I always go for the studio version, but when it comes to Steam, Come Talk to Me, Washing of the Water, Secret World, Kiss That Frog and Digging in the Dirt, I always go straight for the live versions from Secret World Live.

You know, I came by Us after Secret World Live as well, and I agree the performances are more lively on Secret World Live (which is not all that live as I understand it). I think a big part of that is Paula Cole's backing vocals, as well as Manu Katche being able to cut loose.

Yes.  Manu's performance on Secret World Live is one of my favorite drum performances of all time, and Paula Cole's vocals are god-tier.  It's a shame her solo career was so disappointing.