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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Setlist Scotty on September 24, 2018, 12:31:10 PM
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I sure hope Ticketblaster is going down. I always knew they were scum, but never realized how bad it was until I read this article a couple days ago:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/a-public-relations-nightmare-ticketmaster-recruits-pros-for-secret-scalper-program-1.4828535
Thoughts?
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Well, the upshot of all of this is going to be higher ticket prices for everyone, across the board, and likely something like the way the airline books tickets. You will be at a show where you paid $375 dollars for a seat through the box office, and the person to your left will have paid $450, and the guy on the right will have paid $175, all to the same box office.
Tickets have an after market in part because they are priced so low to begin with (finite supply of seats is another, but that kind of gets minimized as the general price goes up).
Either way, we pay.
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The re-selling thing doesn't really bother me as much as the claim that Ticketmaster doesn't release all of the tickets at once. They hold back sections to create artificial demand and then adjust pricing on the fly. We all know that we battle re-sellers and bots for tickets. But to know that we're battling them for a limited number of seats and not the full venue allotment of seats really sucks.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
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I sure hope Ticketblaster is going down. I always knew they were scum, but never realized how bad it was until I read this article a couple days ago:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/a-public-relations-nightmare-ticketmaster-recruits-pros-for-secret-scalper-program-1.4828535
Thoughts?
I think most people who buy and follow ticket sales have figured this was happening. Also, I would never have used the ticketmaster resell part because it is almost always more expensive than Stubhub and they don't allow you to sell tickets under face value unless the tickets are all sold so it's really not a good tool for the end user IMO. I don't think this will be the end of them though. They've had plenty of scandals already. It would be nice if this helps clean things up though and makes it better for the user (which I feel Livenation's use of selecting the actual seat has done). But I don't expect things to get any better from this.
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This won't hurt Ticketmaster for the simple reason that Ticketmaster's customers have no reason to complain.
And for the record, if TM did go down we'd all suffer as a result. I think it's nothing short of miraculous that competition has been able to emerge in the ticketing world. However, the truth is that TM generally beats the ever-loving shit out of its competitors. AXS? Christ, those guys are terrible. TM beats the competition, and the competition milks the same exorbitant service fees anyway, so they don't actually save us anything.
Best plan is simply to learn how to play the game. I've done exceptionally well with tickets over the last dozen or so years.
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Oh totally agree about AXS, I absolutely hate buying tickets through them but my local club venue only uses them so I am stuck sometimes. I got tickets through them last week and they want 15 dollars to ship you a ticket, are you fucking kidding me? Now I have to use their shitty app to present my ticket at the venue.
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Not really news.
But I've been done with ticketbastard (Still ignoring their settlement emails too.) since Rush retired.
Been going to shows that either don't use ticketbastard or I wait and get tickets the day of the show. (Though it's more a case of seeing bands that don't use them.)
I used to get a lot more bent out of shape over this but I don't let it bother me now. For the most part, I just refuse to buy in anymore.
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Let's see here. Out of the five concerts that I'm going to this year, I've only used Ticketmaster once to get a ticket and that one show, which is Owl City, I was a bit mad about paying it because of the additional "service fee." I paid $36.00 for the ticket, but $11.00 of that was in fees and I'm like, "What the heck do you guys do to warrant that charge?" I mean if the consumers are more well-informed by Live Nation/Ticketmaster on what they do to warrant tacking this fee and it is actually justified, I don't think people would be as angry about paying fees that's at least a third of the face value ticket price. They will still be angry nonetheless since, well, no one wants to pay any additional fees on top of the face value of the ticket.
Oddly enough, me paying $36.00 is in the middle in terms of how much I paid for a ticket this year. I've paid only $25-$26.00 using another site but those were in smaller venues filling around 300-500 people (seeing Big Wreck and Myles Kennedy) and I paid $40 and $50 and that was at a discounted price using Groupon (seeing Lindsey Stirling/Evanescence with an orchestra, and going to see the Trans-Siberian Orchestra).
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Oh totally agree about AXS, I absolutely hate buying tickets through them but my local club venue only uses them so I am stuck sometimes. I got tickets through them last week and they want 15 dollars to ship you a ticket, are you fucking kidding me? Now I have to use their shitty app to present my ticket at the venue.
Yep. Twenty-five dollars to see Haken, plus 6.80 for my convenience, plus 2 more for handling, plus 2.5 for a stamp. And the AXS website is awful. But down with Ticketbastard, I guess? :lol
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Let's see here. Out of the five concerts that I'm going to this year, I've only used Ticketmaster once to get a ticket and that one show, which is Owl City, I was a bit mad about paying it because of the additional "service fee." I paid $36.00 for the ticket, but $11.00 of that was in fees and I'm like, "What the heck do you guys do to warrant that charge?" I mean if the consumers are more well-informed by Live Nation/Ticketmaster on what they do to warrant tacking this fee and it is actually justified, I don't think people would be as angry about paying fees that's at least a third of the face value ticket price. They will still be angry nonetheless since, well, no one wants to pay any additional fees on top of the face value of the ticket.
Oddly enough, me paying $36.00 is in the middle in terms of how much I paid for a ticket this year. I've paid only $25-$26.00 using another site but those were in smaller venues filling around 300-500 people (seeing Big Wreck and Myles Kennedy) and I paid $40 and $50 and that was at a discounted price using Groupon (seeing Lindsey Stirling/Evanescence with an orchestra, and going to see the Trans-Siberian Orchestra).
Wait a second, though; it's only "tacked on" if you can buy that ticket for $25.00 somewhere else. If the end price of the ticket is the same no matter where you go, then it matters not if it is "$36.00 for the ticket and $0.00 fees" or "$1.00 for the ticket and $35.00 for fees". Part of the deal a couple years ago was that they weren't "transparent enough", so they added the detail. Now, the detail is bad.
Couple that with the fact that concert tickets are literally the only common marketable good with a significant, regular secondary market (which means that the pricing is well below that which should be based on supply and demand) and it makes me scratch my head, for real. The alternative is not in any possible universe a $25.00 ticket with no fee.
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Let's see here. Out of the five concerts that I'm going to this year, I've only used Ticketmaster once to get a ticket and that one show, which is Owl City, I was a bit mad about paying it because of the additional "service fee." I paid $36.00 for the ticket, but $11.00 of that was in fees and I'm like, "What the heck do you guys do to warrant that charge?" I mean if the consumers are more well-informed by Live Nation/Ticketmaster on what they do to warrant tacking this fee and it is actually justified, I don't think people would be as angry about paying fees that's at least a third of the face value ticket price. They will still be angry nonetheless since, well, no one wants to pay any additional fees on top of the face value of the ticket.
Oddly enough, me paying $36.00 is in the middle in terms of how much I paid for a ticket this year. I've paid only $25-$26.00 using another site but those were in smaller venues filling around 300-500 people (seeing Big Wreck and Myles Kennedy) and I paid $40 and $50 and that was at a discounted price using Groupon (seeing Lindsey Stirling/Evanescence with an orchestra, and going to see the Trans-Siberian Orchestra).
Wait a second, though; it's only "tacked on" if you can buy that ticket for $25.00 somewhere else. If the end price of the ticket is the same no matter where you go, then it matters not if it is "$36.00 for the ticket and $0.00 fees" or "$1.00 for the ticket and $35.00 for fees". Part of the deal a couple years ago was that they weren't "transparent enough", so they added the detail. Now, the detail is bad.
Couple that with the fact that concert tickets are literally the only common marketable good with a significant, regular secondary market (which means that the pricing is well below that which should be based on supply and demand) and it makes me scratch my head, for real. The alternative is not in any possible universe a $25.00 ticket with no fee.
Nah, it's still just tacked on money. If you go to buy a car that's advertized for 35k, and the guy tells you "here it is, the final price is 35k, but you can't drive it without a key and we charge $4,000 for those," you'd be pissed off. "Well, I'll just buy it from the secondary market!" "Yes sir. There's a Keyhub right down the street. They'll sell you the car for 129k."
And it wasn't just about transparency. Some of the charges were for kickbacks (facility maintenance fee), which insured their monopoly. Some were just stupidly exorbitant because they could get away with it. The $2.50 stamp I just bought would have been $7 ten years ago.
Look, I think much of the Ticketmaster bashing is unwarranted, but the fees are bullshit and arbitrary.
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Let's see here. Out of the five concerts that I'm going to this year, I've only used Ticketmaster once to get a ticket and that one show, which is Owl City, I was a bit mad about paying it because of the additional "service fee." I paid $36.00 for the ticket, but $11.00 of that was in fees and I'm like, "What the heck do you guys do to warrant that charge?" I mean if the consumers are more well-informed by Live Nation/Ticketmaster on what they do to warrant tacking this fee and it is actually justified, I don't think people would be as angry about paying fees that's at least a third of the face value ticket price. They will still be angry nonetheless since, well, no one wants to pay any additional fees on top of the face value of the ticket.
Oddly enough, me paying $36.00 is in the middle in terms of how much I paid for a ticket this year. I've paid only $25-$26.00 using another site but those were in smaller venues filling around 300-500 people (seeing Big Wreck and Myles Kennedy) and I paid $40 and $50 and that was at a discounted price using Groupon (seeing Lindsey Stirling/Evanescence with an orchestra, and going to see the Trans-Siberian Orchestra).
Wait a second, though; it's only "tacked on" if you can buy that ticket for $25.00 somewhere else. If the end price of the ticket is the same no matter where you go, then it matters not if it is "$36.00 for the ticket and $0.00 fees" or "$1.00 for the ticket and $35.00 for fees". Part of the deal a couple years ago was that they weren't "transparent enough", so they added the detail. Now, the detail is bad.
Couple that with the fact that concert tickets are literally the only common marketable good with a significant, regular secondary market (which means that the pricing is well below that which should be based on supply and demand) and it makes me scratch my head, for real. The alternative is not in any possible universe a $25.00 ticket with no fee.
Nah, it's still just tacked on money. If you go to buy a car that's advertized for 35k, and the guy tells you "here it is, the final price is 35k, but you can't drive it without a key and we charge $4,000 for those," you'd be pissed off. "Well, I'll just buy it from the secondary market!" "Yes sir. There's a Keyhub right down the street. They'll sell you the car for 129k."
And it wasn't just about transparency. Some of the charges were for kickbacks (facility maintenance fee), which insured their monopoly. Some were just stupidly exorbitant because they could get away with it. The $2.50 stamp I just bought would have been $7 ten years ago.
Look, I think much of the Ticketmaster bashing is unwarranted, but the fees are bullshit and arbitrary.
That car analogy isn't really accurate though; if it's $35k, it's $35k, whether $4k is a key fee or not. I think the point that isn't being fully digested - and I think you know this, because I believe we've talked about it before - is that it's not about what "Ticketbastard" is taking, it's what YOU'RE PAYING. If the secondary market is charging $100 a ticket on a $36 box office ticket, where we should be looking is at the $64 delta, not the $11 fee. The only people that should be pissed off about the $11 is the artist, because that's where the money is coming from, not you.
We live with "bullshit" fees all day every day and don't give a crap about it. Apple charges $1000 for a phone BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not a build-up price, cost of parts, labor, plus a modest 5% profit and boom! That gets you to about $200. Everyone that is buying an iPhone pays an $800 "service fee" of sorts and most do so gladly. Parking in the city. Almost all markup. Fast food; that 32oz. Mountain Dew that kid just polished off is about a 98% markup for the franchise.
The only caveat is, I agree that there ought to be more scrutiny about the practices and any kickbacks. I have yet to ask him but a close friend is a senior guy at a venue around here, and I literally have not once been able to buy a ticket for a show at that arena from the initial sale at the box office. It's crazy how even mid-tier artists seem to sell out in minutes. Keith Urban (more than a mid-tier artist here) sold out TWO shows, 12,000 seats each, in about 16 minutes. But I was luckily able to access the secondary market - right there on the ticket seller's website! - immediately, and had the option of purchasing a $96 pit ticket for only $400! Lucky me! THAT I have a problem with, and so should Keith Urban, frankly.
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Keith Urban (more than a mid-tier artist here) sold out TWO shows, 12,000 seats each, in about 16 minutes. But I was luckily able to access the secondary market - right there on the ticket seller's website! - immediately, and had the option of purchasing a $96 pit ticket for only $400! Lucky me! THAT I have a problem with, and so should Keith Urban, frankly.
To me, the fees are an annoyance, but something I can put up with for the most part. But what Stads says above is what really gets under my skin, and why I would like to see Ticketblaster be brought down, beside of course the fact that it is a virtual monopoly due to the ways they manipulated the market over time.
And I agree that all artists should have an issue with that. Iron Maiden does, and they've taken matters into their own hands to see to it that the scalping of tickets is pretty much done away with, although it is more time consuming when you arrive at the venue. Still, I'd be willing to sacrifice the extra time just to be assured that my money is not going to some scalper instead of the band.
The sad thing is, the only way to put a stop to this sort of thing would be laws instituted by the government. I say this because I remember how Pearl Jam fought Ticketblaster 20+ years ago, and despite their high profile and name, they eventually had to give up the fight. Perhaps if a huge number of major artists all banded together and fought against Ticketblaster, maybe something could be accomplished. But even then, I'm in doubt. Given that Ticketblaster likely has lobbyists in DC, it would probably take a long time before something could be done to stop them, but I'd like to think that the news report I cited might instigate this, even tho I have my doubts of anything of real substance ever developing against them.
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Keith Urban (more than a mid-tier artist here) sold out TWO shows, 12,000 seats each, in about 16 minutes. But I was luckily able to access the secondary market - right there on the ticket seller's website! - immediately, and had the option of purchasing a $96 pit ticket for only $400! Lucky me! THAT I have a problem with, and so should Keith Urban, frankly.
To me, the fees are an annoyance, but something I can put up with for the most part. But what Stads says above is what really gets under my skin, and why I would like to see Ticketblaster be brought down, beside of course the fact that it is a virtual monopoly due to the ways they manipulated the market over time.
And I agree that all artists should have an issue with that. Iron Maiden does, and they've taken matters into their own hands to see to it that the scalping of tickets is pretty much done away with, although it is more time consuming when you arrive at the venue. Still, I'd be willing to sacrifice the extra time just to be assured that my money is not going to some scalper instead of the band.
The sad thing is, the only way to put a stop to this sort of thing would be laws instituted by the government. I say this because I remember how Pearl Jam fought Ticketblaster 20+ years ago, and despite their high profile and name, they eventually had to give up the fight. Perhaps if a huge number of major artists all banded together and fought against Ticketblaster, maybe something could be accomplished. But even then, I'm in doubt. Given that Ticketblaster likely has lobbyists in DC, it would probably take a long time before something could be done to stop them, but I'd like to think that the news report I cited might instigate this, even tho I have my doubts of anything of real substance ever developing against them.
Ticketmaster can only be sued by their customers, and neither us nor Maiden qualify. TM's exclusive customer is the concert promoter, and he has no reason to rock the boat.
And let's be clear that the artists are just as in with ticket scalping as the scalpers. That's why The Who has a VIP package for every precious metal, gemstone, and radioactive isotope. Personally, I'd rather have some greasy douchebag rip me off for $400 than the artist, but that's what's happening here.
Also, at the top end the artists are essentially just contractors anyway. If BMG offers Urban $100,000,000 for a sixty date tour he's not going to bite the hand that feeds him, and BMG is damn sure going to make their money back. At that point TM's $30 surcharges are a drop in the bucket.
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If you go to buy a car that's advertized for 35k, and the guy tells you "here it is, the final price is 35k, but you can't drive it without a key and we charge $4,000 for those," you'd be pissed off.
https://youtu.be/ZCT3jm1A-5U?t=22s
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Oh totally agree about AXS, I absolutely hate buying tickets through them but my local club venue only uses them so I am stuck sometimes. I got tickets through them last week and they want 15 dollars to ship you a ticket, are you fucking kidding me? Now I have to use their shitty app to present my ticket at the venue.
Yep. Twenty-five dollars to see Haken, plus 6.80 for my convenience, plus 2 more for handling, plus 2.5 for a stamp. And the AXS website is awful. But down with Ticketbastard, I guess? :lol
I've never seen someone be such a fan of Ticketmaster. Just because AXS is worse doesn't mean Ticketmaster can't also be bad. Are they paying you to say this? Or are they holding you hostage? Blink twice if you need us to send help.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
Yup, I have and will again pay over face value for a front row of the section ticket. Guaranteeing your view is important to me for some shows. Especially venues I frequent and know which seats are the best.
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Oh totally agree about AXS, I absolutely hate buying tickets through them but my local club venue only uses them so I am stuck sometimes. I got tickets through them last week and they want 15 dollars to ship you a ticket, are you fucking kidding me? Now I have to use their shitty app to present my ticket at the venue.
Yep. Twenty-five dollars to see Haken, plus 6.80 for my convenience, plus 2 more for handling, plus 2.5 for a stamp. And the AXS website is awful. But down with Ticketbastard, I guess? :lol
I've never seen someone be such a fan of Ticketmaster. Just because AXS is worse doesn't mean Ticketmaster can't also be bad. Are they paying you to say this? Or are they holding you hostage? Blink twice if you need us to send help.
Not a fan at all. I just recognize that a lot of the arguments against them are dodgy and we could be getting it a lot worse. The reality is that their added fees are right in line with the rest of the market and their interface is much better than those of their competitors.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
This is correct some of the time. Other times not so much. If you're a scalper any seat in the venue is gold for that Keith Urban show. There's a certain element of risk involved, if the show doesn't sell out then you're in trouble, but if it does those "get-ins" might as well be solid gold.
But the rest of your post is right on. The scalpers have long maintained that the reason they exist is that the tickets are undervalued to begin with, which is certainly true for the good seats. The "fair" alternative, should TM or others decide to go that route, would be an auction system, and I guarantee you none of us would like that.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
Yup, I have and will again pay over face value for a front row of the section ticket. Guaranteeing your view is important to me for some shows. Especially venues I frequent and know which seats are the best.
In my case I almost always pay less than face value with scalpers. Good seats come from TM and are high priced. Get-ins come from scalpers and are generally well under face for the shows I go to. They're simply part of the equation, and you use them when the situation warrants.
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Interesting that I stumbled across this while there's a discussion here about TM and scalpers. Here's Trent Reznor's approach. Is this really an improvement?
TICKETS FOR COLD AND BLACK AND INFINITE NORTH AMERICA 2018 WILL GO ON SALE MAY 19 EXCLUSIVELY AT THE PHYSICAL WORLD PRESALE
*DENVER MAY 20
What? Why? Physical World Presale?
The promise of a world made better by computers and online connectivity has failed us in many ways, particularly when it comes to ticketing. Everything about the process sucks and everyone loses except the reseller. We’ve decided to try something different that will also likely suck, but in a different way. We’re hoping many of you will be happy with the results, while some may do what they always do and bitch about it.
Here’s how it works:
You (an actual human being) show up at the box office, interact with the ticket seller (another actual human being) and purchase up to four tickets that will actually be handed to you on the spot. The tickets will not be available online or anywhere else before or during that day. All seats (including the best seats) will be available first come, first serve. You may actually encounter other actual human beings with similar interests likely wearing black clothing during the process and potentially interact with THEM. The experience has the potential* to be enjoyable. Nine Inch Nails has always been about bringing people together, living life to the fullest and good times.**
Any remaining tickets will be sold at a later date.
*not guaranteed
**not entirely true
Those of us that are old enough certainly remember camping out for tickets. It was always a blast. Now that we're older how many of us can justify knocking off work to be lined up at a box office a 0500 on a Wednesday morning?
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I'll give Trent credit for trying something and I don't know the results of his test, but I must say I have no interest in waiting in a line for tickets. I just don't have the time to do that for the amount of concerts I attend.
In my case I almost always pay less than face value with scalpers. Good seats come from TM and are high priced. Get-ins come from scalpers and are generally well under face for the shows I go to. They're simply part of the equation, and you use them when the situation warrants.
Yup, it's situational. My point was simply an agreement that there are tickets that are worth more than others even marked at the same price from the retailer. I really don't have too much dislike for our current system, it typically works in my favor since I've been following ticket trends and concerts for a few years now and I wouldn't want to go back to the old ways personally, even though I am sure those lines could have been fun (I actually had a blast waiting on signing lines at Progpower just because it lend itself to easy and fun discussions with people of similar interests).
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Interesting. A few of the more recent shows I have been to I bought the tickets directly at the box office, but the demand was such that I could just go at any time during the day and get them, and they were all GA so needn't concern myself with seat availability. On the surface I see its merits. First come, first served is often the most equitable method, as it eliminates many other variables. Though guessing when people would begin starting to line up would be a challenge. Would I need to be there at 5:00am? 2:00am? 11:00pm the night before? But to the point above, is this an improvement?
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You have to get there ahead of the professional scalpers and the army of homeless people they pay to wait with them. I checked the second Dallas NIN show and there are ~1k tickets available on the secondary market. Scalpers were just a big a problem back in the old days when this was the only show in town.
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Dedicated scalpers
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Dedicated scalpers
And in this case with good cause. That show is a certain sellout (it's where we saw DT last year). The scalpers and their bums will be able to show up in greater numbers than the fans. NIN has insured that there is no online access other than the scalpers. I suspect that Trent was sincere in wanting to defeat the resellers, but in this case he really handed them an easy win.
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Dedicated scalpers
And in this case with good cause. That show is a certain sellout (it's where we saw DT last year). The scalpers and their bums will be able to show up in greater numbers than the fans. NIN has insured that there is no online access other than the scalpers. I suspect that Trent was sincere in wanting to defeat the resellers, but in this case he really handed them an easy win.
No online at all? I thought it was just day 1 sales had to be in person? Either way, if the scalpers are doing as you say, it kind of defeats the purpose anyway.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
Could be, but I was talking about the current situation. I have never attended a seated concert (that was larger than, say 200-300) here where there wasn't a clear class-based price distinction for the seats. But "front" row for large shows almost always are non-seated with a set price. However, that offcourse doesn't stop scalpers, as it is very much a problem for large scale pop concerts, but personally not an issue I have ever witnessed.
I don't know the current situation, but our government is pleading for a form of regulation to protect consumers. An example they gave was that they do not allow reselling tickets for more than 120% of the price (which is in line with the popular service ticketswap, which has the same limitation). I hope they succeed.
Furthermore, I am no big expert on flight tickets, but I do know that there are factors involved that shouldn't apply for concerts. For example, the highly variable fuel prices and direct competition between different companies that offer basically the same product (as in, a flight to the same location around the same time). And off course a huge amount of different agencies that offer the same tickets that determine their own "service" costs (booking via another travel agency thus can alter the price significantly). However, it is possible that in the US there are different systems in place.
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I just have never understood why things have to be so deceptive in the first place. There should be a lot more sections for shows, especially near the front. in an arena and want front 3 rows on the floor? That's $400. Want next 5? That's $250. Want to the end of the first orchestra? That's $150. Rest of the orchestra $100.
If you think about it it's just stupid that the front row and last row at the other end of the very long floor go for the same price to begin with.
It is very odd to me that this isn't the case. Over here, most if not all seated shows have a clear price distinction based on the location of the seat. That said, in Arenas/big venues the middle part is usually non-seated.
Be careful what you ask for; I will bet you one of those seats that if they do start to do more "seat specific" pricing - ala airlines - it's not the back seats that are going to go down. It will be the front seats going UP. That's really what this is all about; many (most?) of those front seats are what fuel the after-market. The floor seating, for example, is priced for those back seats, not the front ones.
Over here, depends on the band, the first few rows are reserved usually for VIP seats. I'll get lucky and snap when the VIP ends and snag the seats they didn't sell for VIP.
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I have a question..
Has anyone ever bought Verified Resale Tickets on Ticketmaster? We are looking at a Celtics game. How are the tickets delivered? Are the mobile only? Print at home? Do you get tickets mailed to you?
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I have a question..
Has anyone ever bought Verified Resale Tickets on Ticketmaster? We are looking at a Celtics game. How are the tickets delivered? Are the mobile only? Print at home? Do you get tickets mailed to you?
TM issues a new bar code, whether i t's print at home, transferred or mailed. I've never done the mailing option for a verified resale though. I've only done print at home or transfer.
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So it's safe and legit?
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So it's safe and legit?
Yes, you should be covered. I would go the electronic route preferably.
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So it's safe and legit?
I would think that you're paying extra for the privilege of "safe and legit."
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I didn't really want to start a new thread. this isn't really a Ticketmaster topic, but it is Live Nation.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8521538/live-nation-resale-market-secretly-recorded-phone-calls-concert-tickets
Metallica, do you really need the money that bad?
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I was just reading that story. Sadly, I wish I could say I was surprised. I can't tell you how many big name shows I have tried to attend over the years only to be greeted with the 'nothing available' message 1 second after the on-sale.
Makes me happier that I mainly only check out the more obscure artists these days. These big shows just aren't worth the hassle and stress.
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Doesn’t surprise me. It’s not the first time this has come up and clearly nothing has happened. I limit the shows I go to for that reason. It’s gotten very hard to land tickets because of resale market.
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Makes me happier that I mainly only check out the more obscure artists these days. These big shows just aren't worth the hassle and stress.
Yeah, honestly. It isn't. There were two shows I felt like I really had to metaphorically claw and grab to get tickets for this year: Chris Cornell Tribute show and Iron Maiden and not surprisingly, they were the most expensive tickets I have purchased this year ($95.00 and $70.00). That stated, aside from possibly seeing Metallica and maybe Paul McCartney and maybe Ed Sheeran, there really isn't any big acts I want to pay those amounts for and honestly, they really aren't going to give me much bang for my buck. Like on the lower end of the spectrum, I paid $14.00 and $18.00 for tickets to see Winery Dogs and Coheed & Cambria/Mastodon and those were some pretty damn fine shows and I had a good view the whole time.
What I am getting at is, while it's nice to brag about how packed stadium shows and how much millions these shows are generating, you can still find shows of solid (not massive superstars though) name value bands for a decent price. It may not give you a GA seat all the time, but you get a good view anyway. Like my next two concerts is Shinedown and Zac Brown Band and I paid $25.00 and $20.00. Pretty darn sweet good bands even if they are nosebleed seats.
As for the Metallica thing, the band themselves really need to talk to their management about this as they (the band members) seemed to unaware that this was a thing.
According to Metallica reps, the band was unaware of DiCoiccio’s dealings with Live Nation. As of this posting, he is still employed directly by Metallica, working as a ticketing consultant.
https://loudwire.com/metallica-rep-live-nation-scam/
On that note, that reminds me of an article years ago where Metallica was also unaware that one of their lawyers filed a ceased-and-desist letter to a Metallica tribute band, but they took care of that one. I know it's hard to keep track of everything on the business side for the band members, but there are moments like the Live Nation news where this may hit the fan or it may blow over and we go about our day.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_apologize_over_cease_and_desist_letter_to_tribute_band_blame_overzealous_attorney.html
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-calls-ticketmaster-202613014.html
Not like this will make a difference, but I have to agree with AOC.
Ticketmaster is such a scam, it's unreal. They came off as totally unprepared for the volume today regarding the pre-sale for the Taylor Swift tour, and of course send out some stupid statement about how it was unprecedented volume, ignoring the fact that only people who received presale codes could get tickets today, codes that Ticketmaster sent themselves :lol, so they knew in advance what the volume would be.
There is a special place in hell for whatever politicians and higher-ups throw money around that allow this kind of monopoly to have existed for so long.
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Look mate, if the power of the Swifties is the factor to finally reduce Ticketmaster/Live Nation's stranglehold, more power to them. Gl, godspeed.
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I can't remember the last time I bought tickets through Ticketmaster, but it was a long time ago, and the prices are a huge reason why it's been so long. And Ticketmaster is a huge reason why the prices are so insane and why I never go to live shows anymore. So fuck them. I hope they go down.
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Tickemaster is the music industry's Roger Goodell. They're a lightning rod that the entire industry wants in place to attract valid criticisms away from their own people, including the artists. Taylor gets to act shocked and appalled that her fans are getting the short end of the stick, while she's making huge money off of this. Ticketmaster's exorbitant fees and track record of shady dealings makes them the perfect choice.
Here's the important thing: If TM and LN were to be broken up, and a mechanism is put in place to foster competition, does anybody actually believe that the cost of buying tickets will go down? I guarantee you they'll go up even faster. The industry is well aware of what the market will support, both in terms of pricing and shady dealings. The new players aren't going to abandon that knowledge. They're going to exploit the shit out of it. The problem has never been the ticketing process and the agencies. It's always been the promoters, the artists, the venues, and anybody else that can figure out how to score themselves a piece of the pie. TM's just the front end we deal with.
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Some very fair points there, Barto.
I definitely agree that artists as a whole are culpable to an extent for this mess, but to overthrow it and change the system would take a united front from them all, and that just isn't gonna happen. Even Pearl Jam, at the height of their mainstream peak, failed miserably when going up against TM, so it's the monster that seemingly cannot be killed.
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I am glad that the local venues here do not use ticketmaster. They use Hold My Ticket which is a great service.
This is from their help page of their website:
We make money by charging a modest service fee to ticket buyers. Our fee is 10-15% of the ticket face value, (although that percentage goes down as the price of a ticket goes up) Example: the fee on a $20 ticket would be $3.50, and a $100 ticket would have a $9.50 fee. You can also choose to absorb some or all of the HMT fees on your customer's behalf. It's all in your control. It is a high priority of ours to keep fees as low as possible!
Some very fair points there, Barto.
I definitely agree that artists as a whole are culpable to an extent for this mess, but to overthrow it and change the system would take a united front from them all, and that just isn't gonna happen. Even Pearl Jam, at the height of their mainstream peak, failed miserably when going up against TM, so it's the monster that seemingly cannot be killed.
The only venues here that seem to use Ticketmaster are the ones used for the bigger shows, and the only show that had decent prices was the Lamb of God tour selling Pit Tickets for about $80, after the fees it was close to $100. Compare that to Rob Zombie charging $300 bucks for the same Pit Ticket. I was not going to pay that much just to be able to stand in the pit. And don't even get me started on how much the front row for Kiss was. So, I agree the artists are also culpable for it.
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Artists have to make money, and I won't begrudge those who want to make as much money as possible. And I get that most venues are owned by TM and/or Live Nation, so artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all. It's a bad situation for everyone, except the a-holes who run TM.
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Artists have to make money, and I won't begrudge those who want to make as much money as possible. And I get that most venues are owned by TM and/or Live Nation, so artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all. It's a bad situation for everyone, except the a-holes who run TM.
I want the artists I like to be prosperous. I'd just prefer that they be upfront about it. The reality is that concert tickets are always undervalued, due in large part to the artists not wanting to seem like greedy bastards. The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it. She wants to see her tickets priced in the $75-150 range to make her fans happy, but she also wants a share of that unrealized value. Not necessarily because she wants another 15 million to go with her hundreds, she doesn't strike me as particularly greedy, but because somebody, somewhere is going to get it. Why shouldn't it be her.
It's funny that the post above this from a few years ago tells pretty much the same story. Metallica was scalping their own tickets, essentially. Better them than the professional scalpers. At the same time, if they (or Taylor, or U2, or Peral Jam) wanted to make things right they probably could. The law shields TM a great deal, but these people have the resources to get around that.
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The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it.
I think it's crazy people will pay this for a concert, but it's true. I can't blame the artist for wanting to make the money, but I'm not entirely sure how it works with the dynamic pricing. Does the excess go to the artist or livenation? Also, I don't see how the artists can also play dumb in this. Are they oblivious to their own industry and social media? I do get that there may not be any options, but ticketmaster but say so and don't play dumb. I think if more artists actually say things like:
artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all.
Then maybe people will start to realize how much ticketmaster owns of the live concert touring process instead of just looking directly at ticket sales. The issue is a bit larger than just dynamic pricing.
There's a local provider for a few of the non live nation venues in my area, AXS. I find their fees and resales to be a lot more fair than ticketmaster, but it all depends on the venue whether or not you need to use AXS or LN (and I'd say it's like a 10 to 1 ratio that you are going to use LN).
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The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it.
I think it's crazy people will pay this for a concert, but it's true. I can't blame the artist for wanting to make the money, but I'm not entirely sure how it works with the dynamic pricing. Does the excess go to the artist or livenation? Also, I don't see how the artists can also play dumb in this. Are they oblivious to their own industry and social media? I do get that there may not be any options, but ticketmaster but say so and don't play dumb. I think if more artists actually say things like:
It is my understanding that they do. That does not mean that they necessarily want to, though.
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I do not know why Ticketmaster continues to have such a stranglehold. But I do know that the Pearl Jam juggernaut of the 1990s attempted to derail Ticketmaster and ultimately failed.
There was no bigger ticket in town than Pearl Jam in the 1990s. And they attempted to do their tickets without Ticketmaster and it ended up being a disaster. So after that, none of the artists wanted to try that again.
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It is my understanding that Taylor did everything possible for dynamic pricing to not kick in yesterday. I was able to get tickets for the first Nashville show yesterday later in the afternoon for $99 (plus service charges), which shocked me. I thought by the time I made it through the queue, they would be costing me a small fortune. I suspect that will be impossible to stop once the general sale starts Friday and TM breaks again.
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Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.
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Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.
Kev might be able to share more, but she's doing a hits tour and she hasn't toured in almost 4 years. Demand is HUGE.
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Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.
The girl's popular and she's playing 18k seat venues. They're going to sell out.
Which, BTW, is one of the better ways to counter TM and dynamic pricing. Add more shows to large cities. Kinda simple, honestly. Some of us remember when Van Halen would book 3 shows per city. If 100k people are willing to see Taylor, play for 100k people. Instead she'll play here once and make as much out of it as she can. It's basic supply and demand. Match the two and everybody does alright (except the scalpers).
And just to be fair, I'm not blaming Taylor for any of this, nor am I suggesting that she's a bad person for her involvement in it. She didn't create the situation. She's just living in it and not doing anything to prevent it.
edit: Looks like I got that all wrong. The girl's playing 3 nights at Jerry World. Good on her. :tup That might not deter scalpers from going all in, but it might mean that many of them take a bath and rethink their life choices.
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No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each. She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast. This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now. It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless. Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming. It's crazy.
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Three shows in Foxboro.
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No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each. She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast. This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now. It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless. Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming. It's crazy.
Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.
Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other. :lol
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:lol
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My kid is going to Foxboro.
Artists are actively seeking alternate ways to get around this. Both Prince (RIP) and Bruce have taken different views: Prince "rented" the local arena at the casino near me and handled all the ticketing himself. He took responsibility for the pricing and the sale/resale. Bruce took a flat fee, and a hefty one, and left EVERYTHING to the promoter, with the caveat that max ticket prices were capped by contract and there were constraints on sale and resale. So he wanted things to change but didn't want to handle it himself. :)
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No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each. She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast. This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now. It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless. Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming. It's crazy.
Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.
Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other. :lol
I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke. ??? (although it has been a long work day :lol)
My guess is that many of the tickets the scalpers grab by this weekend will sit for a while due to them charging thousands of dollars for them, and I don't think a concert is considered sold if you can still buy from the scalpers on TM (again, what a scam), but the fact that dates were announced and then a week later 17 dates were added speaks to how many out there want to go to this. And she is doing mostly only weekend shows. IIRC, the last two shows in Los Angeles (of the five) are in the middle of the week following the initial three. Basically, she is doing one city per week, with almost all the shows on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday.
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I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke. ??? (although it has been a long work day :lol)\
It's actually a good story. Short version is that the guy who owned the Patriots, and son of the founder went all in on the Jackson's Victory tour. He owned half and Don King owned the other half. Guess who made money on the deal? Charles Sullivan lost his shirt (reportedly living in his suite at the old Sullivan Stadium for a while). In the ensuing bankruptcy Bob Kraft bought the stadium, but not the team. (He'd already bought all of the land around it, making it less desirable to other bidders.) The beauty of it was that with the stadium and parking lots, Kraft had the Patriots locked into an iron-clad lease, which scared off any potential bidders when the team came up for sale years later, and Kraft was able to buy it then. So basically, the comedy of errors that was the Jackson's Victory Tour are the reason the Patriots became the Patriots we know today, and Bob Kraft still has a Jacksons tour poster on the wall of his office. :lol
Thanks, Don. Michael. :biggrin:
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Wow, I never knew that. That is wild.
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Wow, I never knew that. That is wild.
I actually knew the stuff regarding the Jacksons Reunion tour regarding how it eventually led to Bob Kraft owning the Patriots. I read that thing on TVTropes. I think I read that they didn't actually get to play in Sullivan Stadium due to whatever reasons.
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No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each. She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast. This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now. It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless. Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming. It's crazy.
Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.
Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other. :lol
I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke. ??? (although it has been a long work day :lol)
My guess is that many of the tickets the scalpers grab by this weekend will sit for a while due to them charging thousands of dollars for them, and I don't think a concert is considered sold if you can still buy from the scalpers on TM (again, what a scam), but the fact that dates were announced and then a week later 17 dates were added speaks to how many out there want to go to this. And she is doing mostly only weekend shows. IIRC, the last two shows in Los Angeles (of the five) are in the middle of the week following the initial three. Basically, she is doing one city per week, with almost all the shows on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday.
She knows her audience. Even my college-age daughter is FAR more likely to go see a show on Saturday than a Wednesday. Guys like me, that will hop in a car and drive two hours on a Wednesday to watch two nerds play guitar and drums, aren't likely the bulk of her fanbase. Hell, even I probably wouldn't go on a Wednesday, given that to see the nerds I can park on the street and walk into the venue 20 minutes before show time and still have time to get merchandise and what not, whereas with a stadium show you need to be there three, four hours in advance with parking, etc. etc.
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I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke. ??? (although it has been a long work day :lol)\
It's actually a good story. Short version is that the guy who owned the Patriots, and son of the founder went all in on the Jackson's Victory tour. He owned half and Don King owned the other half. Guess who made money on the deal? Charles Sullivan lost his shirt (reportedly living in his suite at the old Sullivan Stadium for a while). In the ensuing bankruptcy Bob Kraft bought the stadium, but not the team. (He'd already bought all of the land around it, making it less desirable to other bidders.) The beauty of it was that with the stadium and parking lots, Kraft had the Patriots locked into an iron-clad lease, which scared off any potential bidders when the team came up for sale years later, and Kraft was able to buy it then. So basically, the comedy of errors that was the Jackson's Victory Tour are the reason the Patriots became the Patriots we know today, and Bob Kraft still has a Jacksons tour poster on the wall of his office. :lol
Thanks, Don. Michael. :biggrin:
Dadgummit, you learn something new every day. I never knew that, but it makes a ton of sense, if you know the area around Foxboro; it's kind of in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking and there's only a few decent ways into and out of the stadium. Knowing that Kraft also owns a ton of the real estate around the stadium explains a LOT.
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Yeah, a parking LOT.
sorry...
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https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758
This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down? Or is this just wishful thinking?
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The funny part is that the tweet read like they were cancelling the whole tour.
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They sure look really REALLY bad now :lol Also looks like AOC is locking in on them
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So if they are canceling the actual chance to buy them without presale on Friday, what's going to happen with the tickets? Who gets them? Is there still a tour? Many other questions beyond that as well.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
Seems this is a problem with the system relying too much on one way of buying tickets, and the venue relying on one company to handle that system of selling tickets.
There are others I have seen used such as what Cram mentioned with AXS. Most venues here utilize a ticket company called Hold My Ticket for their events and you can even go to their office in downtown and buy a physical ticket, which quite a lot of people still do.
I also, do not understand why in gods green earth Ticketmaster decided doing that Platinum Ticket crap was a good idea in the first place. When they implemented that, this is when I started to not really attend shows at that bigger venue, the lineups have to be good enough to justify me paying that much for a show at that place, not to mention the other stuff Live Nation handles at the venues. And then you got the venue needing my hands and feet just to make money on their end by charging me $5 for a water in a can. :lol
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https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758
This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down? Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply? If your wishful thinking comes true, and TM gets "taken down," how will things be better?
I give Taylor Swift credit. Seems like she did what she could to maximize the number of tickets. Three shows at Jerry World is unheard of, and should amount to easily 180k tickets depending on staging. Apparently that's not enough. I can think think of a few options, but no matter what a bunch of people are going to be seriously pissed off. They could run a lottery. Scalpers will still get plenty, though. Hell, I'd throw my hat into a lottery to flip the silly things. That won't help. They could try to match price to supply. People are already pissed off about that, though. Seriously, what's TM supposed to do?
Like I said, I understand why TM is the badguy here. It's the way people want it. It's really not their problem, though. Lots of people can help to solve the issue far more effectively than TM, which is just doing what the artists want. Local and state governments could ban ticket scalping. That'd certainly help. Not TM's responsibility. Make it so that tickets can be exchanged only for face value, and anything more is criminal. Or, Taylor Swift could make it clear that she'll play as many dates as necessary, and add shows until supply = demand. That'd also help.
Lastly, though it's been said countless times before, fuck Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. If this is the thing that makes her target TM, then she has a massive lack of understanding as to what the problem actually is.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758
This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down? Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply?.
If demand>Supply, isn't that just your good ol' sold out show? Not sure what the issue is there. I bought tickets before where the show sold out in minutes. It does sounds like they released more tickets during pre-sale than they probably should have.
I'm not an IT person but to avoid the system from breaking down again, can TM just release the tickets slowly in batches? Say release 2000 tickets at once, and when the queue reaches 2000, prevent anyone else from joining the queue until the next batch is release? I know that would be annoying, and might not even work :dunno:
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https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758
This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down? Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply?.
If demand>Supply, isn't that just your good ol' sold out show? Not sure what the issue is there. I bought tickets before where the show sold out in minutes. It does sounds like they released more tickets during pre-sale than they probably should have.
Absolutely. The problem is that back in the day sold out meant Maiden fans beat you to it. Sold out in this case means scalpers hold the tickets and sell them to the highest bidder. There's a class aspect here that pretty much nobody likes.
I'm not an IT person but to avoid the system from breaking down again, can TM just release the tickets slowly in batches? Say release 2000 tickets at once, and when the queue reaches 2000, prevent anyone else from joining the queue until the next batch is release? I know that would be annoying, and might not even work
I think the bigger thing would be for TM to simply not try and sell every show simultaneously at 10:00. They're claiming 14 million tried to buy tickets on Tue. Staggering the onsale times would certainly help. Though, it's also true that scalpers are no longer confined to their home markets nowadays, so perhaps not enough.
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It is kind of an odd scenario as basically all artists don't have this kind of draw. The amount of stadium shows in each stadium is pretty incredible. I think the only other comparison I've seen is how Garth Brooks does it, keeps adding a date until it doesn't sell out. I'd imagine that makes it impossible to book a tour, but hey, if you are on this level, these may be your only options to not piss off the fans. I really don't know what the solution is because as stated, supply/demand. Even if another company took over, if the demand is sky high then so will their prices.
If the government is going to go after them, they probably should look more into the fees. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the different in fees for a ticket at face value vs the ticket at the raised platinum prices. I just don't see why the fees are a % of the ticket price.
Funny enough, livenation is doing a 2 for 1 sale for select concerts that started today. One of which I want to see so I went to check the tickets and check this out! LOL :rollin
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhy9bAlUYAE1IwY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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I'm feeling pretty grateful that the biggest band I love is Rush, and while it did become more difficult to get "good" seats towards the end, it was certainly never anything like this.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.
It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.
It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.
It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.
It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
I'm not willing to blame capitalists for being capitalists. What they're doing is perfectly legal. I agree that it probably shouldn't be, but until that happens I'm not castigating them for taking advantage of a fundamentally stupid system.
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I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?
I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.
It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.
It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
I'm not willing to blame capitalists for being capitalists. What they're doing is perfectly legal. I agree that it probably shouldn't be, but until that happens I'm not castigating them for taking advantage of a fundamentally stupid system.
Agreed. The scalpers are merely taking advantage of the system TM set up, and you know they in bed together so that TM gets a massive chunk of the money sold by 3rd parties who magically always happen to grab a bunch of seats that no one else had a chance to buy. Heck, many of them are sold on TM's site itself for exorbitant amounts of money, so anyone telling me that TM isn't in bed with the scalpers is something wearing white gloves to whom I'd like sell a ketchup popsicle.
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Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
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Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.
In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
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Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.
In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.
In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.
Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.
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Well, yeah, I should've qualified that it didn't implicate TM, but my point was that deals with agencies like Ace Ticket do exist. To bring it back to TM though, I can't believe that every Verified Resale ticket is simply some Joe Shmo that can't make the game cuz he's gotta work. The Verified Resale market seems to be in some ways coordinated behind the scenes at TM. I definitely believe that.
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I'd love to see them open the books too.
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I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers. You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
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Who's you guys? I'm with you!
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Oh, sorry, your double negative there threw me off. :lol :lol
I will be interested to see how this plays out, as I am sure Taylor Swift has a team of lawyers that are storming the castle right now. The last thing she wants is to play these shows to half empty stadiums because everyone was priced out by the scalpers charging thousands of dollars for a ticket. How this plays out in the coming weeks will be fascinating.
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I'm sure her lawyers are taking.....um..swift action.
I'm sorry..
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I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers. You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.
And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all. In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.
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I'm sure her lawyers are taking.....um..swift action.
I'm sorry..
I knew you were trouble as soon as I saw you had posted in this thread.
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I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers. You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.
And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all. In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.
You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end. I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great. Anecdotal perhaps.
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I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers. You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.
And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all. In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.
You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end. I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great. Anecdotal perhaps.
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.
Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.
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Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.
Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.
I agree with what you are saying. I guess I should be thrilled I got two tickets for the first Nashville show for $99 each ($130 each after the TM service charges), which was the face value.
To touch on what you were saying, when I saw Judas Priest in late 2021, I bought a ticket literally when walking from my car to the entrance the night of the concert...for $20. That was a steal, and such is the advantage of waiting it out.
I don't see the demand dropping for these Taylor stadium shows, so I shudder to think how much many will ultimately sell for.
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Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.
Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.
I agree with what you are saying. I guess I should be thrilled I got two tickets for the first Nashville show for $99 each ($130 each after the TM service charges), which was the face value.
To touch on what you were saying, when I saw Judas Priest in late 2021, I bought a ticket literally when walking from my car to the entrance the night of the concert...for $20. That was a steal, and such is the advantage of waiting it out.
I don't see the demand dropping for these Taylor stadium shows, so I shudder to think how much many will ultimately sell for.
We once bought 3 tickets for Maiden in Denver for $5 each. We gave him a twenty and wouldn't let him give us the change. :lol
Like I said, it really pays to understand how the business works and how the market will behave for any given show. The release of official tickets (which will happen for Taylor, BTW) also wrecks havoc with the resale market. They won't last long, but good seats for the TS show will pop up through the day of the show.
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We once bought 3 tickets for Maiden in Denver for $5 each. We gave him a twenty and wouldn't let him give us the change. :lol
Like I said, it really pays to understand how the business works and how the market will behave for any given show. The release of official tickets (which will happen for Taylor, BTW) also wrecks havoc with the resale market. They won't last long, but good seats for the TS show will pop up through the day of the show.
I guess time will tell, but I don't doubt anything you are saying. :tup :tup
As a sidebar, as I get older, the wait it out approach is tricky, as there are days I just don't feel like going to a concert. I went to Death Cab with two friends last month and all day I kept thinking, "I really don't feel like going to a concert tonight," but I went and was glad I did, as it was a great show. Had it been a "I will buy the day of the concert" scenario, I likely wouldn't have gone. So, buying ahead of time worked to my advantage. Regarding the aforementioned Priest concert, I literally decided at like 6:45 pm that night that I wanted to go, jumped in my car, drove to the venue (20 minutes away), bought the ticket on the way in, and had a good time. That was actually nice to go by myself (only my 2nd concert ever where I've done that), as I was able to work off my own time table verses going with friends where it becomes a whole evening thing, which is not a bad thing, but some nights I just want to hit the show and then go home. Such is getting older. :lol Okay, story time is over.
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Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.
In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.
In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.
Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.
With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing that’s exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I don’t know what will.
https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
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With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing that’s exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I don’t know what will.
https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
The whole time I was reading this, I was thinking "Wasn't there some scandal a few years back with TM and scalpers", and yeah I remember that same article. I think it was one of those things that it was a questions of "is it ethical?", not "is it legal?".
I do wish TM would be a bit more regulated with their fees and pricing (Come on, the "Official Platinum" crap is out of control). Scalpers will find a way, that's something that unless a ticket is attached to a name, it will always exist and be an issue for fans, but the dynamic pricing crap is something that should be regulated (yeah, yeah, I know demand high = price is high, but I have problems with that mentality as well).
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https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758
This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down? Or is this just wishful thinking?
Just heard about this...this should go a great deal towards seeing how bulletproof live nation is.
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I suspect they are bulletproof. Some will make a lot of noise, but this will eventually die down and things will move on for them as always, sadly. It does sound like Taylor and her team might have been behind the cancellation of today's general sale as they work with TM behind the scenes towards some type of resolution towards this mess, but who knows.
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I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers. You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.
And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all. In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.
You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end. I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great. Anecdotal perhaps.
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.
Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.
I should add since we've talked about this before in the concerts thread, that my experiences in 2022 were more in line with Kev. Finding under face value tickets the day of show has been incredibly hard to come by. I used to score $5 lawn tickets for my local summer shed, but last summer the best deals I could find were either live nation sales or via the box office to save on fees. Stubhub/TM resales never seemed to dip below face value. It certainly seemed like someone was eating the cost of these tickets, but I kind of doubt that on a mass scale so it just seemed odd to me. Having said that, there may have been more luck to buy from an actual scalper outside the venue.
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Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.
In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.
In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.
Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.
With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing that’s exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I don’t know what will.
https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
Perhaps the reason it didn't bring them down is because it was a gross misrepresentation of what's happening. TradeDesk is an inventory management tool to be used by scalpers. Most importantly, it serves as a validation process to make sure the resold tickets are legitimate. Nothing in the article demonstrated that they were dumping tickets to scalpers ahead of fans. Let me be clear, I don't work for TM and I suspect there are more than enough shady dealings to go around, but things like this are part of the problem. Let's rag on them for the things we know they do wrong, rather than the things we assume they are.
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I should add since we've talked about this before in the concerts thread, that my experiences in 2022 were more in line with Kev. Finding under face value tickets the day of show has been incredibly hard to come by. I used to score $5 lawn tickets for my local summer shed, but last summer the best deals I could find were either live nation sales or via the box office to save on fees. Stubhub/TM resales never seemed to dip below face value. It certainly seemed like someone was eating the cost of these tickets, but I kind of doubt that on a mass scale so it just seemed odd to me. Having said that, there may have been more luck to buy from an actual scalper outside the venue.
You go to more popular shows than I do. With the exception of Tool I don't go to many shows with a shot at selling out. Also, as I pointed out the cheaper prices are the day before the show, insofar as the scalpers go. Demand is obviously greater the day of.
This year we got Who tickets for far less than face ($24 including TT&L). Same story for the Stones. I bought proper tickets for Rammstein, but the scalpers were undercutting them. I can get floor seats for Puscifer in Tulsa tomorrow night for $47 all in, which is cheaper than face. Get-ins for Roger Waters a couple of weeks ago were dirt cheap.
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I suspect they are bulletproof. Some will make a lot of noise, but this will eventually die down and things will move on for them as always, sadly. It does sound like Taylor and her team might have been behind the cancellation of today's general sale as they work with TM behind the scenes towards some type of resolution towards this mess, but who knows.
It depends on who's doing the shootin'. They're insulated from the fans and the artists by a landmark legal decision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Brick_Co._v._Illinois) ages ago that says only direct customers have standing to sue a business. You and I aren't TM's customers. Neither is Pearl Jam. Their only customers are concert promoters who agree to use TM's service, and they have no interest in rocking the boat.
The DOJ, on the other hand, could conceivably blow their brains all over Elm St. JFK style. Not sure if it'd be right, and it'd probably not be the good thing that people think it would, but it is possible.
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As a sidebar, as I get older, the wait it out approach is tricky, as there are days I just don't feel like going to a concert. I went to Death Cab with two friends last month and all day I kept thinking, "I really don't feel like going to a concert tonight," but I went and was glad I did, as it was a great show. Had it been a "I will buy the day of the concert" scenario, I likely wouldn't have gone. So, buying ahead of time worked to my advantage. Regarding the aforementioned Priest concert, I literally decided at like 6:45 pm that night that I wanted to go, jumped in my car, drove to the venue (20 minutes away), bought the ticket on the way in, and had a good time. That was actually nice to go by myself (only my 2nd concert ever where I've done that), as I was able to work off my own time table verses going with friends where it becomes a whole evening thing, which is not a bad thing, but some nights I just want to hit the show and then go home. Such is getting older. :lol Okay, story time is over.
What a drag it is getting old. :lol
I'm right there with you. "Do I really want to go and do this? Eh, I'm enjoying this game right now." Like you I tend to really enjoy myself when I do decide to head out, and more importantly, I always regret missing it when I decide not to bother. Still, it's a whole lot easier when I purchase tickets well in advance. That takes the decision making out of the equation.
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I'm actually very curious how next summer goes. I bought a pre-sale ticket for Foreigner because I saw a seat for $50 (after fees) and if next summer is anything like last, I won't find a ticket for that price in the seats. I've actually been trying to get in on pre-sales for any show I think will sell well because that seems to be the best price unless you can find someone offloading as the date gets closer.
Funny enough, the cheapest resale ticket I got this year was via an AXS concert, not livenation.
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I'm actually very curious how next summer goes. I bought a pre-sale ticket for Foreigner because I saw a seat for $50 (after fees) and if next summer is anything like last, I won't find a ticket for that price in the seats. I've actually been trying to get in on pre-sales for any show I think will sell well because that seems to be the best price unless you can find someone offloading as the date gets closer.
Funny enough, the cheapest resale ticket I got this year was via an AXS concert, not livenation.
My experience with presales over the years has mostly been bad. That's just me, though. If I can get a great seat up close I'll jump on it, but otherwise I'll hold off until the general onsale, which is frequently far better than the presale, or put it off and watch how the market sorts things out.
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I'm actually very curious how next summer goes. I bought a pre-sale ticket for Foreigner because I saw a seat for $50 (after fees) and if next summer is anything like last, I won't find a ticket for that price in the seats. I've actually been trying to get in on pre-sales for any show I think will sell well because that seems to be the best price unless you can find someone offloading as the date gets closer.
Funny enough, the cheapest resale ticket I got this year was via an AXS concert, not livenation.
My experience with presales over the years has mostly been bad. That's just me, though. If I can get a great seat up close I'll jump on it, but otherwise I'll hold off until the general onsale, which is frequently far better than the presale, or put it off and watch how the market sorts things out.
Well the general sale just went on and I checked, already can't find a seat as good as mine for that price. They raised the prices already. I used to be against buying so early, but my experiences lately with dynamic pricing seems to be that presale tickets are the lowest face value you'll find. Of course you may be able to get a secondary market ticket for cheaper, but as I've said, it just hasn't been my experience at this venue lately so trying a different route to get the best value. I'll have to remind myself next September to see if this played out well or not.
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I'm actually very curious how next summer goes. I bought a pre-sale ticket for Foreigner because I saw a seat for $50 (after fees) and if next summer is anything like last, I won't find a ticket for that price in the seats. I've actually been trying to get in on pre-sales for any show I think will sell well because that seems to be the best price unless you can find someone offloading as the date gets closer.
Funny enough, the cheapest resale ticket I got this year was via an AXS concert, not livenation.
My experience with presales over the years has mostly been bad. That's just me, though. If I can get a great seat up close I'll jump on it, but otherwise I'll hold off until the general onsale, which is frequently far better than the presale, or put it off and watch how the market sorts things out.
Well the general sale just went on and I checked, already can't find a seat as good as mine for that price. They raised the prices already. I used to be against buying so early, but my experiences lately with dynamic pricing seems to be that presale tickets are the lowest face value you'll find. Of course you may be able to get a secondary market ticket for cheaper, but as I've said, it just hasn't been my experience at this venue lately so trying a different route to get the best value. I'll have to remind myself next September to see if this played out well or not.
That's an excellent point. Dynamic pricing never really comes into play for the shows I see, so I haven't really accounted for that.
And you should check the secondary market before every show you see. It's fascinating, and being able to work the system is invaluable.
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You go to more popular shows than I do. With the exception of Tool I don't go to many shows with a shot at selling out. Also, as I pointed out the cheaper prices are the day before the show, insofar as the scalpers go. Demand is obviously greater the day of.
This year we got Who tickets for far less than face ($24 including TT&L). Same story for the Stones. I bought proper tickets for Rammstein, but the scalpers were undercutting them. I can get floor seats for Puscifer in Tulsa tomorrow night for $47 all in, which is cheaper than face. Get-ins for Roger Waters a couple of weeks ago were dirt cheap.
I think that the fact that I rarely go to shows of artists super popular on a mainstream cycle is why the awfulness of TM hadn't bothered me much over the years, but this week has been a stark reminder. Even though I got tickets, I feel bad for the many fans who either didn't or will have to pay a lot to the scalpers to go.
Regarding getting tickets the day of again, even though their new album isn't doing a lot for me, I still want to see Muse when they are here in a few months, but most seats worth a damn are $400+. That is one I will wait till the day of or before to see what is left and for how much.
I suspect they are bulletproof. Some will make a lot of noise, but this will eventually die down and things will move on for them as always, sadly. It does sound like Taylor and her team might have been behind the cancellation of today's general sale as they work with TM behind the scenes towards some type of resolution towards this mess, but who knows.
It depends on who's doing the shootin'. They're insulated from the fans and the artists by a landmark legal decision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Brick_Co._v._Illinois) ages ago that says only direct customers have standing to sue a business. You and I aren't TM's customers. Neither is Pearl Jam. Their only customers are concert promoters who agree to use TM's service, and they have no interest in rocking the boat.
The DOJ, on the other hand, could conceivably blow their brains all over Elm St. JFK style. Not sure if it'd be right, and it'd probably not be the good thing that people think it would, but it is possible.
Yep, if the promoters are making money, they aren't going to rock the boat, and I suspect most of them are doing just fine. It is a more of a tough go post-pandemic, but you don't stay in business long if you are losing money, and the promoters who keep it going will likely rake it in while thanking TM in their heads.
As a sidebar, as I get older, the wait it out approach is tricky, as there are days I just don't feel like going to a concert. I went to Death Cab with two friends last month and all day I kept thinking, "I really don't feel like going to a concert tonight," but I went and was glad I did, as it was a great show. Had it been a "I will buy the day of the concert" scenario, I likely wouldn't have gone. So, buying ahead of time worked to my advantage. Regarding the aforementioned Priest concert, I literally decided at like 6:45 pm that night that I wanted to go, jumped in my car, drove to the venue (20 minutes away), bought the ticket on the way in, and had a good time. That was actually nice to go by myself (only my 2nd concert ever where I've done that), as I was able to work off my own time table verses going with friends where it becomes a whole evening thing, which is not a bad thing, but some nights I just want to hit the show and then go home. Such is getting older. :lol Okay, story time is over.
What a drag it is getting old. :lol
I'm right there with you. "Do I really want to go and do this? Eh, I'm enjoying this game right now." Like you I tend to really enjoy myself when I do decide to head out, and more importantly, I always regret missing it when I decide not to bother. Still, it's a whole lot easier when I purchase tickets well in advance. That takes the decision making out of the equation.
Amen to that. *cues the Rolling Stones tune*
:hat :hat
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Regarding getting tickets the day of again, even though their new album isn't doing a lot for me, I still want to see Muse when they are here in a few months, but most seats worth a damn are $400+. That is one I will wait till the day of or before to see what is left and for how much.
Good tickets are where you often hit a dead end. Looking at that show, that might not be the case here, though. Get-ins will be dirt cheap. I suspect you could score a ticket to that for $25 all-in. Beyond that, doesn't look like that many people are interested as there are still massive amounts of tickets left. They're playing a venue too big for their draw, by the looks of it. And, scalpers have gone all in. Look for people with blocks of 8 tickets and you'll see what I mean. You got people selling tickets in 103 for barely above face right now, and they're holding a lot of them. Day before the show is likely to be a bloodbath for the brokers. Also, given the lack of interest, floor tickets probably won't be bad at all. I get not wanting to do GA in a huge crowd, but the huge crowd isn't likely to be all that bad. Lots of options for that one.
(See what I mean about studying how these things play out?)
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Regarding getting tickets the day of again, even though their new album isn't doing a lot for me, I still want to see Muse when they are here in a few months, but most seats worth a damn are $400+. That is one I will wait till the day of or before to see what is left and for how much.
Good tickets are where you often hit a dead end. Looking at that show, that might not be the case here, though. Get-ins will be dirt cheap. I suspect you could score a ticket to that for $25 all-in. Beyond that, doesn't look like that many people are interested as there are still massive amounts of tickets left. They're playing a venue too big for their draw, by the looks of it. And, scalpers have gone all in. Look for people with blocks of 8 tickets and you'll see what I mean. You got people selling tickets in 103 for barely above face right now, and they're holding a lot of them. Day before the show is likely to be a bloodbath for the brokers. Also, given the lack of interest, floor tickets probably won't be bad at all. I get not wanting to do GA in a huge crowd, but the huge crowd isn't likely to be all that bad. Lots of options for that one.
(See what I mean about studying how these things play out?)
Haha, yep, for sure! There is an advantage to seeing artists whose shows will not sell out.
Also, for anyone still following the TS/Ticketmaster thing, she released a statement (below). Reading between the lines, it's obvious that there is nothing she can do to rectify what has happened, which I know will piss some off, but she is just one person. It will take a lot more than just one massively popular musician to take down an entity as big and popular as TM.
(https://i.redd.it/qx2rs02m8s0a1.jpg)
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An interesting thing about TM's statement. They said massive demand and insufficient inventory to meet that demand, they're cancelling the public sale. They didn't say there weren't any left. Only that there weren't enough to put people through more bear attacks. They also didn't say they weren't selling them, but only the initial onsale was off. They're sitting on tickets that they never put up for sale. Possibly tons of them. Sometime in the next few months they're quietly going release them here and there. Day of the show will probably see a lot of them thrown out. It'll be hard to beat the scalpers, but people will be able to score tickets to the thing.
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Regarding getting tickets the day of again, even though their new album isn't doing a lot for me, I still want to see Muse when they are here in a few months, but most seats worth a damn are $400+. That is one I will wait till the day of or before to see what is left and for how much.
Good tickets are where you often hit a dead end. Looking at that show, that might not be the case here, though. Get-ins will be dirt cheap. I suspect you could score a ticket to that for $25 all-in. Beyond that, doesn't look like that many people are interested as there are still massive amounts of tickets left. They're playing a venue too big for their draw, by the looks of it. And, scalpers have gone all in. Look for people with blocks of 8 tickets and you'll see what I mean. You got people selling tickets in 103 for barely above face right now, and they're holding a lot of them. Day before the show is likely to be a bloodbath for the brokers. Also, given the lack of interest, floor tickets probably won't be bad at all. I get not wanting to do GA in a huge crowd, but the huge crowd isn't likely to be all that bad. Lots of options for that one.
(See what I mean about studying how these things play out?)
The Muse show is another good example of what I'm talking about with presale. My gf wanted to go (and I've never seen Muse or Evenescence) and figuring that show at MSG would be expensive, I snagged presale tickets for $115 per seat. Now the cheapest face value is $195 in the same section (the cheapest overall are $140 with limited side view). It's possible you could score cheaper tickets from scalpers, but I'm not sold on it. I'll definitely be checking back and seeing if my theory holds true for some of these shows. I just go to too many concerts to not try my best to get the best value.
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^^ Looking at the Muse shows at LA and Anaheim, there's some decent-view nosebleed seats at around $80-100. The LA show is on AXS (as the arena is the building formerly known as Staples Center, AEG-owned) and the Anaheim show is on Ticketmaster.
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An interesting thing about TM's statement. They said massive demand and insufficient inventory to meet that demand, they're cancelling the public sale. They didn't say there weren't any left. Only that there weren't enough to put people through more bear attacks. They also didn't say they weren't selling them, but only the initial onsale was off. They're sitting on tickets that they never put up for sale. Possibly tons of them. Sometime in the next few months they're quietly going release them here and there. Day of the show will probably see a lot of them thrown out. It'll be hard to beat the scalpers, but people will be able to score tickets to the thing.
And then people will bitch that they didn't know about new tickets being available, after TM makes them available at like 2:20 in the afternoon on a random Monday, as word will spread like wildfire through Twitter that tickets are suddenly available and the traffic shuts down the site again. :lol :lol
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Well :corn
https://deadline.com/2022/11/taylor-swift-ticketmaster-live-nation-justice-department-1235176199/
I doubt much will come from it, but it will be entertaining to follow.
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:corn :corn :corn :corn
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Not to dig too deep into this angle, but I suspect that it helps that a Democrat is in the WH right now, as I saw that the CEO of Live Nation once donated a shit ton of money to Trump, so a Democrat's DOJ is far more likely to be on board with this than a Republican's. I would imagine it is more window dressing than anything, but if any substantial and positive changes come out of it, we fans can all take the bread crumbs as a tinny tiny win, I suppose. I won't hold my breath, however.
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I'm feeling pretty grateful that the biggest band I love is Rush, and while it did become more difficult to get "good" seats towards the end, it was certainly never anything like this.
I always felt like I needed a shower after wasting almost an entire day throwing Rush tickets back waiting for seats I could at least live with for their each leg of their last 4 tours. They were the last band I would endure that for. Passed on Roger Waters and King Crimson even though it's possible that I won't have the chance to see them live again. I've been done with Ticketmaster for years. There are shows I've missed because of it but I had to draw the line. I have front row seats (behind a row of tables) in about a week to see Jordan Rudess and I had them in 30 seconds. Done. If I have to deal with ticketmaster. I wait until almost showtime and if I find something I like I'll take it. If not, I won't.
I got that 2 for 1 Live Nation offer too. Nobody on that list I would even remotely consider seeing. It is what it is.
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Not to dig too deep into this angle, but I suspect that it helps that a Democrat is in the WH right now, as I saw that the CEO of Live Nation once donated a shit ton of money to Trump, so a Democrat's DOJ is far more likely to be on board with this than a Republican's. I would imagine it is more window dressing than anything, but if any substantial and positive changes come out of it, we fans can all take the bread crumbs as a tinny tiny win, I suppose. I won't hold my breath, however.
Actually, I believe the Obama administration approved of the merger because the heads of Live Nation and Ticketmaster were large Dem donors. I just read an article on it. The Trump admin actually sought to make changes to the LNE agreement, but they didn't end up being all that substantial.
EDIT:
Here it is...Tank The Tech did a video on it that I watched this morning. He's reading from something Robert Reich wrote.
https://youtu.be/5BdqHObDlDY?t=44
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I'm feeling pretty grateful that the biggest band I love is Rush, and while it did become more difficult to get "good" seats towards the end, it was certainly never anything like this.
I always felt like I needed a shower after wasting almost an entire day throwing Rush tickets back waiting for seats I could at least live with for their each leg of their last 4 tours. They were the last band I would endure that for. Passed on Roger Waters and King Crimson even though it's possible that I won't have the chance to see them live again. I've been done with Ticketmaster for years. There are shows I've missed because of it but I had to draw the line. I have front row seats (behind a row of tables) in about a week to see Jordan Rudess and I had them in 30 seconds. Done. If I have to deal with ticketmaster. I wait until almost showtime and if I find something I like I'll take it. If not, I won't.
I'll use Ticketmaster - I'd prefer something else but if the show I want to see is through TM, I'm ok with using it. I almost always wait until the last minute for seated venues anyway, unless I get really lucky on a presale. With Rush it was usually day of the show.
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Not to dig too deep into this angle, but I suspect that it helps that a Democrat is in the WH right now, as I saw that the CEO of Live Nation once donated a shit ton of money to Trump, so a Democrat's DOJ is far more likely to be on board with this than a Republican's. I would imagine it is more window dressing than anything, but if any substantial and positive changes come out of it, we fans can all take the bread crumbs as a tinny tiny win, I suppose. I won't hold my breath, however.
Actually, I believe the Obama administration approved of the merger because the heads of Live Nation and Ticketmaster were large Dem donors. I just read an article on it. The Trump admin actually sought to make changes to the LNE agreement, but they didn't end up being all that substantial.
EDIT:
Here it is...Tank The Tech did a video on it that I watched this morning. He's reading from something Robert Reich wrote.
https://youtu.be/5BdqHObDlDY?t=44
I like Tank, and I don't think he had any ill intent, but that was a pretty awful video, and I think he was outside of his wheelhouse there. He knows a great deal about various aspects of the touring industry, but not the entirety of it. Honestly, if you watch that video with an eye towards critical thinking it comes off as pretty bad. He was pretty much putting on a clinic on using language to mislead.
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Bart, I only served it up because it was topical, and I had just watched it today.
Honestly, I find his videos big teases because he never really says anything. He's actually boring as shit.
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The guy is wearing his hat backwards, therefore I cannot take him seriously about anything.
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The guy is wearing his hat backwards, therefore I cannot take him seriously about anything.
I'm sure you feel the same way about Yadier Molina.
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I doubt anything significant will change after yesterday's Senate hearing, but I have to admit I chuckled at the handful of times a Senator dropped a Taylor Swift lyric into their dialogue at the hearing. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjX-2aQL8FI
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1st AXS now Ticketmaster
So, there is no ability to buy specific tickets online anymore if they don't meet the algorythm set in place to avoid single tickets unsold right away.
https://help.ticketmaster.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360006541253-Why-can-t-I-leave-a-single-seat-
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1st AXS now Ticketmaster
So, there is no ability to buy specific tickets online anymore if they don't meet the algorythm set in place to avoid single tickets unsold right away.
https://help.ticketmaster.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360006541253-Why-can-t-I-leave-a-single-seat-
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I manipulated the system for this before. It is really annoying though.
Not sure how many tickets you are trying to buy, but I went to purchase 2 tickets, and there were 3 available together. Every time I tried to buy it it old me I was leaving a seat stranded. So I opened a separate incognito browser, pretended I was going to buy a single ticket from the 3 (so the system will hold it and take it off the market while you purchase). Then I went back to my main browser and bought the 2 remaining seats, since the other seat disappeared.
Annoying, but it works.
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Genius! (Seriously).
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Great idea
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I manipulated the system for this before. It is really annoying though.
Not sure how many tickets you are trying to buy, but I went to purchase 2 tickets, and there were 3 available together. Every time I tried to buy it it old me I was leaving a seat stranded. So I opened a separate incognito browser, pretended I was going to buy a single ticket from the 3 (so the system will hold it and take it off the market while you purchase). Then I went back to my main browser and bought the 2 remaining seats, since the other seat disappeared.
Annoying, but it works.
Great minds...
I've done that a couple times myself. Slick move.
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1st AXS now Ticketmaster
So, there is no ability to buy specific tickets online anymore if they don't meet the algorythm set in place to avoid single tickets unsold right away.
https://help.ticketmaster.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360006541253-Why-can-t-I-leave-a-single-seat-
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnQmJl0X0AAbUpC?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I manipulated the system for this before. It is really annoying though.
Not sure how many tickets you are trying to buy, but I went to purchase 2 tickets, and there were 3 available together. Every time I tried to buy it it old me I was leaving a seat stranded. So I opened a separate incognito browser, pretended I was going to buy a single ticket from the 3 (so the system will hold it and take it off the market while you purchase). Then I went back to my main browser and bought the 2 remaining seats, since the other seat disappeared.
Annoying, but it works.
ah, yeah that makes sense. I ended up buying 2 tickets in the row behind the row I was trying to. Sucks, but it was only 1 row back. But I will definitely keep that in mind at the point I'm buying tickets from TM or Axs or another site. I'd prefer/tend to try and avoid buying tickets online if I can, but most tickets of course sadly, that is the only way to buy them. Especially if the concert/event is in town. Out-of-town shows I dont plan to travel and take a chance to buy at a venue since I'm already traveling, planning, etc.
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Ticketmaster is doing it again. The Cure purposely set prices low for their upcoming tour and TM swooped in and messed it all up. I saw a post by someone that showed the price breakdown where they bought 4 tickets at $20 each, so $80. After fees the total was $172. Yes, the service fees totaled more than $20 per ticket, or more than an actual ticket cost.
Robert Smith is pissed, to say the least. I would be too.
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Ticketmaster is doing it again. The Cure purposely set prices low for their upcoming tour and TM swooped in and messed it all up. I saw a post by someone that showed the price breakdown where they bought 4 tickets at $20 each, so $80. After fees the total was $172. Yes, the service fees totaled more than $20 per ticket, or more than an actual ticket cost.
Robert Smith is pissed, to say the least. I would be too.
I bought tickets to another show here in Charlotte at an amphitheater and this is the breakdown from TM. The seats are at the very back of the seated area on an aisle:
Tickets $49 X 2
Fees:
$5.36 (order processing fee) X 2
$15.70 (Service fee) X 2
$1.14 tax (X2)
So for $95 tickets I'm paying $145 lol. Absolutely f*cking ridiculous. And it won't change.
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I suspect that's going to be their base minimum. They never expected anybody in 2023 to sell tickets for $20/ea, so it looks huger than it relatively is. It'd probably be the exact same fees if they were $75/ea and that'd be a little under 33%, which is typically the norm. My hunch is that the service fees are a percentage above a certain point, and below that it's just a flat fee ($15.7).
And I'll say again, even if The Cure could have used a different ticketing agency, the fees would probably be about the same, and there's no guarantee the service was anybody. TM honestly is better than their competitors.
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Right, the entire industry is corrupt, so the screw job is happening whether it comes from TM or someone else. That is the unfortunate reality.
Also, Barto, you ought to be feeling smart now. As you predicted, a lot of the tickets still available on StubHub for this weekend's first two Taylor Swift concerts have come way down.
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Right, the entire industry is corrupt, so the screw job is happening whether it comes from TM or someone else. That is the unfortunate reality.
Also, Barto, you ought to be feeling smart now. As you predicted, a lot of the tickets still available on StubHub for this weekend's first two Taylor Swift concerts have come way down.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Bart is saying the whole system is corrupt; do you expect TM to work for free? I think that's the fallacy in all this. TM is entitled to make back their costs, and a reasonable profit and overhead. Like any other business providing a service.
Pearl Jam bitched and moaned, and it came out now that we have to see the breakdown. That's actually worse, because it triggers the emotional response; we'd be paying this either way but it FEELS bad to be paying TM for this stuff. It's the same in the used car business; they now have these detailed breakdowns of costs, and it looks egregious - the "Dealer Conveyance Fee!" - but EVERY one of those line items is a COST to their business. But it looks like they're piling on all these charges.
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Right, the entire industry is corrupt, so the screw job is happening whether it comes from TM or someone else. That is the unfortunate reality.
Also, Barto, you ought to be feeling smart now. As you predicted, a lot of the tickets still available on StubHub for this weekend's first two Taylor Swift concerts have come way down.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Bart is saying the whole system is corrupt; do you expect TM to work for free? I think that's the fallacy in all this. TM is entitled to make back their costs, and a reasonable profit and overhead. Like any other business providing a service.
Pearl Jam bitched and moaned, and it came out now that we have to see the breakdown. That's actually worse, because it triggers the emotional response; we'd be paying this either way but it FEELS bad to be paying TM for this stuff. It's the same in the used car business; they now have these detailed breakdowns of costs, and it looks egregious - the "Dealer Conveyance Fee!" - but EVERY one of those line items is a COST to their business. But it looks like they're piling on all these charges.
Fair points, but I think it's the being in bed with the scalpers and tickets costing several times their face value on 3rd party sites that grinds the gears of many.
Take when COVID hit and everyone freaked out and bought tons of toilet paper. Imagine if you went to the store, but someone had bought it all and was then selling it outside at four times the store's price and you were faced with the "shit your pants or ante up" scenario. That would irk just about anyone. Now, of course, there is a big difference between concert tickets (a want) and TP (a need), but I think it illustrates the point.
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I always feel smart!
Are they coming down enough to be reasonable for average fans? Part of the problem is that there was no way of knowing what the original face was. I can't imagine list for uppers was over $100, they seldom are, so I wouldn't be surprised to see get-ins going for about that. Another issue is that the whole disastrous start of the thing probably scared most people off. I doubt people have really been looking for scalper tickets figuring they'd be ridiculously overpriced. Probably a lot of resignation to defeat.
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What adds to the pain in our wallets is that the artist big money maker is concerts. No one makes money off of new music anymore. (Sad to say) This adds to the absorbent prices that we freak about. That's why I tend to see bands in small venues. More affordable.
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As much as I think the Cure example is shit. I'm sure they sold all those tickets. There won't be any change as long as people are willing to pay the price including the fees.
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Right, the entire industry is corrupt, so the screw job is happening whether it comes from TM or someone else. That is the unfortunate reality.
Also, Barto, you ought to be feeling smart now. As you predicted, a lot of the tickets still available on StubHub for this weekend's first two Taylor Swift concerts have come way down.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Bart is saying the whole system is corrupt; do you expect TM to work for free? I think that's the fallacy in all this. TM is entitled to make back their costs, and a reasonable profit and overhead. Like any other business providing a service.
Pearl Jam bitched and moaned, and it came out now that we have to see the breakdown. That's actually worse, because it triggers the emotional response; we'd be paying this either way but it FEELS bad to be paying TM for this stuff. It's the same in the used car business; they now have these detailed breakdowns of costs, and it looks egregious - the "Dealer Conveyance Fee!" - but EVERY one of those line items is a COST to their business. But it looks like they're piling on all these charges.
Fair points, but I think it's the being in bed with the scalpers and tickets costing several times their face value on 3rd party sites that grinds the gears of many.
Take when COVID hit and everyone freaked out and bought tons of toilet paper. Imagine if you went to the store, but someone had bought it all and was then selling it outside at four times the store's price and you were faced with the "shit your pants or ante up" scenario. That would irk just about anyone. Now, of course, there is a big difference between concert tickets (a want) and TP (a need), but I think it illustrates the point.
That's a little different; the in bed with scalpers grinds my gears too, though I don't have a problem with scalpers in general IF the public has a fair shake to get the initial run. I think that's the real problem. I shouldn't go on within 10 minutes of a show being on sale and ONLY getting scalped tickets as the alternative. That's been the case with EVERY show at the Mohegan Sun for the last five years or so.
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Well, I know the Arcada uses eTix as their ticketing service and they charge $9 and that's it, doesn't matter on ticket price. TM is throwing $20+ on top. Another issue is that Live Nation/TM own a ton of venues in the states now. I have also seen other small venues that sell their own tickets, and even some smaller sellers like eTix, and the fees never come close to what TM charges.
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And all of these fees talk doesn't even include the who "Official Platinum" game they've been doing. Marking up prices just for the heck of it.
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And all of these fees talk doesn't even include the who "Official Platinum" game they've been doing. Marking up prices just for the heck of it.
Take that up with the artists. Not TM.
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And all of these fees talk doesn't even include the who "Official Platinum" game they've been doing. Marking up prices just for the heck of it.
Take that up with the artists. Not TM.
Isn't "official platinum" basically the same as "dynamic pricing?" Because not all artists agree to letting TM do dynamic pricing. The ones that do, however, are the ones I don't ever want to hear complain about TM.
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And all of these fees talk doesn't even include the who "Official Platinum" game they've been doing. Marking up prices just for the heck of it.
Take that up with the artists. Not TM.
Isn't "official platinum" basically the same as "dynamic pricing?" Because not all artists agree to letting TM do dynamic pricing. The ones that do, however, are the ones I don't ever want to hear complain about TM.
I believe artists can opt out of both. I'm pretty sure that creepy dude form the Cure said as much. And they're similar but not the same. As I understand it (and I'm not an expert, even if I play one on DTF), platinum tickets are entire blocks of great seats set aside for those willing to pay 5x as much. Dynamic pricing applies to the entire venue, and tries to sell tickets for what the market will support.
For my part, I find the latter less disagreeable. The former is just a cash grab. While it's true that they also sell good seats that aren't official platinum, good luck getting them. The dynamic pricing thing is simply an attempt to get the money the scalpers are already getting. Tickets to see Bruce are going to be expensive. That's just the way it is when supply hugely outweighs demand. The difference is whether or not the added money goes to scalpers or to Bruce. I don't much care about the guy, but he deserves the money.
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In response to being called out by congress LN/TM has promoted what it's calling the Fair Ticketing Act. Gotta say, it's not bad. While I'm not sure what they're lobbying for in the fine print, the ideas are typically what I'd like to see. We can all say that banning ticket scalping is the only thing that'll work, but there is something to be said for flexibiiby. A few months ago I had to sell a ticket to see PT in SF because I caught Covid. While I did sell it a a loss (about $25) it was far better than eating the entire cost of the ticket.
Because they're the most evil people in the known universe we can say that they're only doing it to cover their own hides, but that's not a huge concern for me. We all do. The ideas themselves will first and foremost help the artist, and if they really mean letting an artist dictate maximum resale value, it'll be a boon for the fans.
It's also worth noting that the people who hate this are Stubhub. They've actually got a valid point in that their primary competitor is TM's own resell marketplace, but TM has no reason not to abide by the same rules, as they get their money the same way SH does, which is by more fees to the resell. If I like it and scalpers hate it, it's probably a good thing.
https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2023/02/live-nation-entertainment-announces-support-for-a-fair-ticketing-act/
ARTISTS SHOULD DECIDE RESALE RULES.
Protect artists’ ability to use face-value exchanges and limited transfer to keep pricing lower for fans, and prevent scalpers from exploiting fans.
MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO SELL SPECULATIVE TICKETS.
Scalpers use deceptive tactics to trick fans into spending more or buying tickets the seller doesn’t even have – this confuses fans and should be banned.
EXPAND THE BOTS ACT.
Policymakers should expand the scope of the BOTS Act and increase enforcement to deter those who break the law, cheating artists and fans in the process.
CRACK DOWN ON RESALE SITES THAT ARE SAFE HAVENS FOR SCALPERS.
Resale sites that turn a blind eye to illegally acquired tickets, allow ticket speculation, and ignore artists’ rules need real consequences from policymakers to curb their bad behavior.
MANDATE ALL-IN PRICING NATIONALLY.
Avoid surprises at check out and give fans the ability to easily compare prices as they shop by mandating all-in pricing that shows the full out of pocket cost of the ticket and fees right upfront.
That first one really is the big one. Aside from letting artists determine resell value, limiting the number of tickets sold will also be a massive improvement. While I've had to resell tickets I couldn't use, I've never had to sell 16 tickets to 8 different people before.
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Interesting.
I listed a ticket on stubhub for the first time in a few months yesterday and noticed I had to provide the face value as well when putting in my asking price. That seemed new to me, although it didn't stop me from listing it above face value (in my case, by $20).
Speculative tickets was something I speculated was happening last year. The secondary market just didn't make sense for some concerts. I talked about that in the concerts thread.
I've noticed livenation showing all in prices a lot more lately, but not for every concert which confuses me. I definitely like seeing the all in price in right away. Always annoying to have to go through the check out process to actually see the final cost.
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So here's an interesting note. Robert Smith of The Cure has stated that Ticketmaster will send a refund of some of the fees to people that already bought tickets to a Cure show and tickets listed that's going on sale will have lower fees. Let's see if it holds true.
https://loudwire.com/robert-smith-ticketmaster-partial-refund-the-cure-tickets/
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Going to buy tickets for this in about 20 minutes so that's good to hear. Robert Smith continues to be the coolest guy in the music industry.
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I looked at the Ticketmaster website yesterday, and even though they were locked, they showed the seats that were going to become available soon, and most of them were behind the stage. We will see if that continues be the case when tickets go on sale in an hour, but I don’t have very high hopes for this.
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In response to being called out by congress LN/TM has promoted what it's calling the Fair Ticketing Act. Gotta say, it's not bad. While I'm not sure what they're lobbying for in the fine print, the ideas are typically what I'd like to see. We can all say that banning ticket scalping is the only thing that'll work, but there is something to be said for flexibiiby. A few months ago I had to sell a ticket to see PT in SF because I caught Covid. While I did sell it a a loss (about $25) it was far better than eating the entire cost of the ticket.
Because they're the most evil people in the known universe we can say that they're only doing it to cover their own hides, but that's not a huge concern for me. We all do. The ideas themselves will first and foremost help the artist, and if they really mean letting an artist dictate maximum resale value, it'll be a boon for the fans.
It's also worth noting that the people who hate this are Stubhub. They've actually got a valid point in that their primary competitor is TM's own resell marketplace, but TM has no reason not to abide by the same rules, as they get their money the same way SH does, which is by more fees to the resell. If I like it and scalpers hate it, it's probably a good thing.
https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2023/02/live-nation-entertainment-announces-support-for-a-fair-ticketing-act/
ARTISTS SHOULD DECIDE RESALE RULES.
Protect artists’ ability to use face-value exchanges and limited transfer to keep pricing lower for fans, and prevent scalpers from exploiting fans.
MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO SELL SPECULATIVE TICKETS.
Scalpers use deceptive tactics to trick fans into spending more or buying tickets the seller doesn’t even have – this confuses fans and should be banned.
EXPAND THE BOTS ACT.
Policymakers should expand the scope of the BOTS Act and increase enforcement to deter those who break the law, cheating artists and fans in the process.
CRACK DOWN ON RESALE SITES THAT ARE SAFE HAVENS FOR SCALPERS.
Resale sites that turn a blind eye to illegally acquired tickets, allow ticket speculation, and ignore artists’ rules need real consequences from policymakers to curb their bad behavior.
MANDATE ALL-IN PRICING NATIONALLY.
Avoid surprises at check out and give fans the ability to easily compare prices as they shop by mandating all-in pricing that shows the full out of pocket cost of the ticket and fees right upfront.
That first one really is the big one. Aside from letting artists determine resell value, limiting the number of tickets sold will also be a massive improvement. While I've had to resell tickets I couldn't use, I've never had to sell 16 tickets to 8 different people before.
I agree with all you've said; I would note, though, that I don't see anything that SPECIFICALLY prohibits TM from switching tickets from their cold sell to resale page automatically (something I've long suspected they do); if that's the BOTS part, then I apologize for my ignorance.
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In response to being called out by congress LN/TM has promoted what it's calling the Fair Ticketing Act. Gotta say, it's not bad. While I'm not sure what they're lobbying for in the fine print, the ideas are typically what I'd like to see. We can all say that banning ticket scalping is the only thing that'll work, but there is something to be said for flexibiiby. A few months ago I had to sell a ticket to see PT in SF because I caught Covid. While I did sell it a a loss (about $25) it was far better than eating the entire cost of the ticket.
Because they're the most evil people in the known universe we can say that they're only doing it to cover their own hides, but that's not a huge concern for me. We all do. The ideas themselves will first and foremost help the artist, and if they really mean letting an artist dictate maximum resale value, it'll be a boon for the fans.
It's also worth noting that the people who hate this are Stubhub. They've actually got a valid point in that their primary competitor is TM's own resell marketplace, but TM has no reason not to abide by the same rules, as they get their money the same way SH does, which is by more fees to the resell. If I like it and scalpers hate it, it's probably a good thing.
https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2023/02/live-nation-entertainment-announces-support-for-a-fair-ticketing-act/
ARTISTS SHOULD DECIDE RESALE RULES.
Protect artists’ ability to use face-value exchanges and limited transfer to keep pricing lower for fans, and prevent scalpers from exploiting fans.
MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO SELL SPECULATIVE TICKETS.
Scalpers use deceptive tactics to trick fans into spending more or buying tickets the seller doesn’t even have – this confuses fans and should be banned.
EXPAND THE BOTS ACT.
Policymakers should expand the scope of the BOTS Act and increase enforcement to deter those who break the law, cheating artists and fans in the process.
CRACK DOWN ON RESALE SITES THAT ARE SAFE HAVENS FOR SCALPERS.
Resale sites that turn a blind eye to illegally acquired tickets, allow ticket speculation, and ignore artists’ rules need real consequences from policymakers to curb their bad behavior.
MANDATE ALL-IN PRICING NATIONALLY.
Avoid surprises at check out and give fans the ability to easily compare prices as they shop by mandating all-in pricing that shows the full out of pocket cost of the ticket and fees right upfront.
That first one really is the big one. Aside from letting artists determine resell value, limiting the number of tickets sold will also be a massive improvement. While I've had to resell tickets I couldn't use, I've never had to sell 16 tickets to 8 different people before.
I agree with all you've said; I would note, though, that I don't see anything that SPECIFICALLY prohibits TM from switching tickets from their cold sell to resale page automatically (something I've long suspected they do); if that's the BOTS part, then I apologize for my ignorance.
I wouldn't expect TM to actually do that. If TM were an actual holder and seller on their resale page I think that would be criminal, and certainly a conflict of interest that no promoter would tolerate. Moreover, TM doesn't actually own any tickets. What wouldn't surprise me is if people associated with TM, or even some employees, buy some tickets before they go on sale to scalp. Growing up a friend's mom actually ran the Rainbow Ticketmaster machine at Sears and would always pull him tickets (good ones) before they actually went on sale. Honestly, if TM had any sense, and I think they do, they'd prohibit that from every happening.
I can tell you why it might look that way, though. A shit-ton of the tickets that show up on the resell page come from insiders. Not from TM, necessarily, but producers, promoters, radio people, label people, and certainly band people. These were all tickets that never went on sale to the general public. Somebody posted an article a while back about somebody in Metallica's camp working with TM to make sure his allotment of tickets went straight to resale. That probably happens with a lot of people. What people don't realize is that of the 80,000 seats for Taylor Swift's show at Jerryworld, probably less than 40k were made available to the public. It wasn't TM hoarding them, but all of the other industry people who got first dibs, and they all cashed them in.
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That's probably true; my beef is really with the shows that go on at Mohegan Sun, the casino here in CT. And I know for a fact that you're right about the tickets that get held back. It depends on the show, a bit, but it was usually a thing that the tribe families got an allotment of tickets that would invariably filter their way to the market. This seems to just be speeding that up.
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If you ever go searching for day of show tickets, there's always a complete row or section that gets released. That would imply to me that some tickets aren't on the market for some shows until they are unspoken for.
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When I saw Bruce on Broadway - and bear in mind this is BROADWAY, not a tour run through normal promoters - you could line up outside, and after the doors opened, they would call people in from the standing room line and issue whatever tickets they had; typically, about five or six people got tickets every show, but no guarantees. I got third row center, and I know for a fact my ticket was one of Bruce's reserved tickets that whoever he left it for didn't use. So they sold it. I had been standing out in 32o weather since about 2pm (so about five hours) and was escorted in to the ticket booth and given about 31 seconds to take the ticket or not. Once I bought it, I was escorted to the entrance (to make sure I didn't run out and boot it in the street, I guess!) and ushered through the ticket taker.
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Well, we didn't used to call them Ticketbastards for nothing. :lol
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Thank the goddess that congress is finally getting involved. Now we can expect some improvements. :lol
The TICKET Act (yes, it's some stupid acronym) will eventually pass, and quite expectedly it touches on the two most superficial points that don't really effect many people, and ignores the underlying problems. This is what you get when you let Ted Fucking Cruz decide what should be done instead of listening to the people who understand it. Ironically, TM/LN actually wants far more regulation than they'll get out of congress, and they've been lobbying hard for it. This bill will force ticket sellers to show you the "out the door" price, rather than just face value before the fees. Or, the same thing that happens if you tick the "show prices with fees" switch on the website. And frankly, is there anybody in the world that doesn't understand that a $45 ticket will cost you $60? This isn't new and it isn't rocket science. The other thing it will do is "prohibit" speculative ticketing. Something that doesn't really effect anybody not willing to spend 40x face value to see Taylor Swift. I buy tickets from original sellers and resellers, and speculative ticketing has never been a factor in anything.
In the meantime, absolutely nothing will be done about ticket resellers and bots, which is actually at the heart of the problem. I suspect that because of this phony economy of ours, which relies on money constantly moving around like a shell game, congress doesn't actually want to eliminate scalpers. They move money and they pay taxes. Until this happens, and the artists get to control whether or not their tickets get resold, nothing changes. Ted Cruz will pat himself on the back, though, for protecting us from those evil Ticketbastard people.
https://americansongwriter.com/__trashed-9/
And here's LN/TM's proposal, which would help if properly enforced.
https://www.livenationentertainment.com/2023/02/live-nation-entertainment-announces-support-for-a-fair-ticketing-act/
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Yeah... that doesn't really move the needle, but somehow, it does seem that there's still people out there that don't understand the price of the ticket after fees thing. I think putting the full price out there makes a lot of sense, but yeah, doesn't actually change a damn thing.
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Well, we didn't used to call them Ticketbastards for nothing. :lol
Ticketmasochist
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Yeah... that doesn't really move the needle, but somehow, it does seem that there's still people out there that don't understand the price of the ticket after fees thing. I think putting the full price out there makes a lot of sense, but yeah, doesn't actually change a damn thing.
I think there are times when the percentage is so drastic that it freaks people out. Wasn't it The Cult's reunion tour where the fees were more than the tickets? Even though I understood what had happened it looks terrible. I just have a hard time imagining people who don't know that extra fees will be added on. Even the old people we used to consider victims of technology, the guy who wants to take his 3 kids to the circus, have been around long enough to have seen this before.
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Yeah... that doesn't really move the needle, but somehow, it does seem that there's still people out there that don't understand the price of the ticket after fees thing. I think putting the full price out there makes a lot of sense, but yeah, doesn't actually change a damn thing.
I think there are times when the percentage is so drastic that it freaks people out. Wasn't it The Cult's reunion tour where the fees were more than the tickets? Even though I understood what had happened it looks terrible. I just have a hard time imagining people who don't know that extra fees will be added on. Even the old people we used to consider victims of technology, the guy who wants to take his 3 kids to the circus, have been around long enough to have seen this before.
I just see people always complaining about the fees on twitter like it's something new. The reality is, for these big shows of famous artists, you're going to pull out people who don't normall go to concerts and they'll experience this for the first time. Funny thing about the fees being more than the ticket... just experienced this for the first time when we booked our hotel in AC a couple weeks ago. Harrahs was only charging $25 for the room, but the fees were $40. Never seen that before for a hotel, but it's similar to the Cult. There's going to be a floor minimum fee before the % of the room is higher than that floor.
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I think Ticketmaster removed the show price with fees thing on the page where you select your seat and before you hit checkout. Again, this means nothing to me since when I go to them or AXS, if I see a price, I assumed the actual price is what you see + 30% of the ticket price when you go to the checkout page.
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The fact that scalpers are allowed to sell tickets on TM's actual site tells me that they have no interest in fixing anything, and I doubt the politicians do either. It's all just window-dressing. I know there is a lot of nuance to it, a lot of which Barto has covered nicely in this thread (among others), but I don't expect any significant changes to happen in my lifetime.
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The fact that scalpers are allowed to sell tickets on TM's actual site tells me that they have no interest in fixing anything, and I doubt the politicians do either. It's all just window-dressing. I know there is a lot of nuance to it, a lot of which Barto has covered nicely in this thread (among others), but I don't expect any significant changes to happen in my lifetime.
Does that mean they give a kick back to the artist, though? I'm not nearly as bothered by scalpers as most are, since I understand the economics of it. The only part I don't like is having the "profit" go into the hands of a "lucky" third party. But it would be nice if the artist was able to get a piece of that vig.
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The fact that scalpers are allowed to sell tickets on TM's actual site tells me that they have no interest in fixing anything, and I doubt the politicians do either. It's all just window-dressing. I know there is a lot of nuance to it, a lot of which Barto has covered nicely in this thread (among others), but I don't expect any significant changes to happen in my lifetime.
Does that mean they give a kick back to the artist, though? I'm not nearly as bothered by scalpers as most are, since I understand the economics of it. The only part I don't like is having the "profit" go into the hands of a "lucky" third party. But it would be nice if the artist was able to get a piece of that vig.
Certainly no kickback. At least not directly. The artist gets what the artist gets for each and every ticket. TM simply charges the exact same fees they always do, but in this case a second time. I buy a $50 ticket from TM for $75. I then sell that ticket for $100, and TM charges the buyer $150. Sweet gig if you can pull it off. The artists do get screwed on that profit, which is why TM has been offering their dynamic pricing to the artists, should they wish it (and the small fry might not have a choice). When Tool is selling their best seats for $125, and TM is listing them for $600, it's so the artist gets that extra $475 rather than some scalper. I really don't object to that.
Of course the solution is to allow artists to place strict limits on whether or not tickets can be resold. I suspect most of them wouldn't want a total ban, "sorry your mom died but that ticket's yours, use it or lose it." And I'm guessing that's the ostensible reason some douchebag like Cruz would be opposed to a ban on scalping. Flexibility has been the ethical explanation for scalpers for a long while. I do think a whole lot of artists would be fine with resell for limited or no profit, though. I'd be fine with reselling and a 10% profit cap. There are any number of ways to give the consumer some flexibility while also preventing third party price gouging.
Also, I'd love to see this because I'd love to find out which artists care about offering affordable tickets to their fans and which ones are quietly happy with the way things are working out. If Metallica puts a no-profit resell policy on their tickets, will they still use the dynamic pricing model? No need for it since there's no secondary market, but highly profitable for them.
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Of course the solution is to allow artists to place strict limits on whether or not tickets can be resold. I suspect most of them wouldn't want a total ban, "sorry your mom died but that ticket's yours, use it or lose it." And I'm guessing that's the ostensible reason some douchebag like Cruz would be opposed to a ban on scalping. Flexibility has been the ethical explanation for scalpers for a long while. I do think a whole lot of artists would be fine with resell for limited or no profit, though. I'd be fine with reselling and a 10% profit cap. There are any number of ways to give the consumer some flexibility while also preventing third party price gouging.
Also, I'd love to see this because I'd love to find out which artists care about offering affordable tickets to their fans and which ones are quietly happy with the way things are working out. If Metallica puts a no-profit resell policy on their tickets, will they still use the dynamic pricing model? No need for it since there's no secondary market, but highly profitable for them.
I think this is where we are heading. Artists I think already have the option to limit pricing on resales. Also, they are already limited when you get your tickets. For example, Spiritbox's NA tour was completely sold out. I had a ticket for both NYC nights but was only going to one (they announced the first one and then later the second date but the second date worked better for me, I was not intent on trying to sell the ticket initially) I put it on stub hub but had to wait until the day before the show to actually transfer it because they didn't release the tickets until then. I noticed this for the VV concert too and the Rhapsody concert (tickets weren't in my livenation account until the day before the show). I think some bands will not only continue to do that, but also place limits on how much higher you can resell a ticket, but not every band is going to do that.
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Of course the solution is to allow artists to place strict limits on whether or not tickets can be resold. I suspect most of them wouldn't want a total ban, "sorry your mom died but that ticket's yours, use it or lose it." And I'm guessing that's the ostensible reason some douchebag like Cruz would be opposed to a ban on scalping. Flexibility has been the ethical explanation for scalpers for a long while. I do think a whole lot of artists would be fine with resell for limited or no profit, though. I'd be fine with reselling and a 10% profit cap. There are any number of ways to give the consumer some flexibility while also preventing third party price gouging.
Also, I'd love to see this because I'd love to find out which artists care about offering affordable tickets to their fans and which ones are quietly happy with the way things are working out. If Metallica puts a no-profit resell policy on their tickets, will they still use the dynamic pricing model? No need for it since there's no secondary market, but highly profitable for them.
I think this is where we are heading. Artists I think already have the option to limit pricing on resales. Also, they are already limited when you get your tickets. For example, Spiritbox's NA tour was completely sold out. I had a ticket for both NYC nights but was only going to one (they announced the first one and then later the second date but the second date worked better for me, I was not intent on trying to sell the ticket initially) I put it on stub hub but had to wait until the day before the show to actually transfer it because they didn't release the tickets until then. I noticed this for the VV concert too and the Rhapsody concert (tickets weren't in my livenation account until the day before the show). I think some bands will not only continue to do that, but also place limits on how much higher you can resell a ticket, but not every band is going to do that.
As I understand it, prohibitions on resell are on a state by state basis, and NY is one of only six states that can prohibit it. At the same time, without state backing people are pretty much on the honour system. Pearl Jam requested only face value exchange for their Fort Worth show, but there are a gazillion tickets for sell on TickPick with ridiculous markups. This is part of what TM/LN is on about with their Fair Ticketing Act proposal.
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The fact that scalpers are allowed to sell tickets on TM's actual site tells me that they have no interest in fixing anything, and I doubt the politicians do either. It's all just window-dressing. I know there is a lot of nuance to it, a lot of which Barto has covered nicely in this thread (among others), but I don't expect any significant changes to happen in my lifetime.
Does that mean they give a kick back to the artist, though? I'm not nearly as bothered by scalpers as most are, since I understand the economics of it. The only part I don't like is having the "profit" go into the hands of a "lucky" third party. But it would be nice if the artist was able to get a piece of that vig.
Certainly no kickback. At least not directly. The artist gets what the artist gets for each and every ticket. TM simply charges the exact same fees they always do, but in this case a second time. I buy a $50 ticket from TM for $75. I then sell that ticket for $100, and TM charges the buyer $150. Sweet gig if you can pull it off. The artists do get screwed on that profit, which is why TM has been offering their dynamic pricing to the artists, should they wish it (and the small fry might not have a choice). When Tool is selling their best seats for $125, and TM is listing them for $600, it's so the artist gets that extra $475 rather than some scalper. I really don't object to that.
Of course the solution is to allow artists to place strict limits on whether or not tickets can be resold. I suspect most of them wouldn't want a total ban, "sorry your mom died but that ticket's yours, use it or lose it." And I'm guessing that's the ostensible reason some douchebag like Cruz would be opposed to a ban on scalping. Flexibility has been the ethical explanation for scalpers for a long while. I do think a whole lot of artists would be fine with resell for limited or no profit, though. I'd be fine with reselling and a 10% profit cap. There are any number of ways to give the consumer some flexibility while also preventing third party price gouging.
Also, I'd love to see this because I'd love to find out which artists care about offering affordable tickets to their fans and which ones are quietly happy with the way things are working out. If Metallica puts a no-profit resell policy on their tickets, will they still use the dynamic pricing model? No need for it since there's no secondary market, but highly profitable for them.
Back in the day when scalpers would hang in front of the arena and whisper "got two!" at you when you walked by, that was the law in CT. You COULD resell, but there was a cap. I've told the story here before; I went down to New Haven to see Kiss on the first leg of the reunion tour, and a dude had like sixth row. I was prepped to give him $100 for what was if I remember right like a $40 dollar ticket. As the dude is holding out the ticket and I'm reaching for my cash, another guy walks up in street clothes and pulls a badge on a chain out of his shirt (side bar: I thought cops didn't wear ties or neckwear for fear of being choked in a fight?) flashed it at the guy and said "you're selling that for face value, right?" I didn't say a word, thinking the deal was over, but the kid panicked and said "yes officer" so I gave him the price of the ticket (might have been rounded up to the nearest ten) and he ran away. I half expected him to circle back and meet me at the door for the rest of his money, but I never saw him again.
I felt bad; I'm sure the kid thought that was staged, but honest to god it wasn't. Great show too.
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That's a great story, Bill!
When I saw Priest a couple years ago (fall of 2021, I think), I literally decided to go at the last minute and drove to the venue prepared to buy a last minute ticket. I didn't buy one online before I left in the hopes that someone out front would have one for less than face value (which was around $75 maybe), and as luck would have it, I passed by a guy who was more than happy to sell one of the tickets he was still trying to unload to me for $20. :hat :hat
Damn good show as well!
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Hey all. Question.
I need to get rid of two sets of tickets to different shows, both of which are happening in August.
But so far, TM hasn't turned on the resell option (I am guessing that's the promoter). How long does it usually take before they allow people to sell tickets? I have an extra set of Extreme/Living Colour tickets I need to part with, and then another event. So I am out about $700 I'd like to recoup.
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I would think they would allow people to re-sell tickets on Ticketmaster at this point if that's where you bought them from. Otherwise, look to see if you are able to transfer them on the ticketmaster app, and relist them on sites like Stubhub, Tickpick, Seatgeek, etc. Note that I think something passed within a year or so where if you do sell tickets, you need to fill out a form on the website you sold the tickets from that requires you to provide your SSN number due to tax reasons. I know I relisted tickets and would have gotten $30.00 back a few months ago, but Ticketmaster asked me that I need to fill something that requires putting in my SSN number and I'm like, "Nahhh, I don't trust Ticketmaster or any resale with this info. That's just a $30.00 loss to me I guess. A good life lesson to pay, I guess."
https://business.ticketmaster.com/business-solutions/2023-us-tax-law-updates-you-need-to-know/
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Thanks. I'll look into it.
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Yeah, I think if you make more than $600 (total for the year)on resale it is considered revenue, and you'll need to pay taxes on it.
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Hey all. Question.
I need to get rid of two sets of tickets to different shows, both of which are happening in August.
But so far, TM hasn't turned on the resell option (I am guessing that's the promoter). How long does it usually take before they allow people to sell tickets? I have an extra set of Extreme/Living Colour tickets I need to part with, and then another event. So I am out about $700 I'd like to recoup.
Lately for certain shows, Ticketmaster hasn't provided the option to resale or transfer tickets until 2 days before the show. This was the case for my Spiritbox ticket. I eventually transfered it even though someone purchased it on stubhub a month earlier. There's an option, in stubhub at least, to say the tickets will be available to transfer at a later date when you create a listing.
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Appreciate the responses. I've sold on TM previously a number of times, but usually the resale button is active a month before the shows. For example, I had a spare set of tickets to Alter Bridge in Seattle, and to Helloween in LA, and I sold those a month prior to both gigs. Here we are, now less than a month before this last show (one of them a buddy took and I'll transfer) I need to get rid of, and I can't list it on TM.
I have second set of tickets for Extreme/Living Colour in Reno. Good ones. 6th row, on the aisle (I went back on right after I bought em, and got a better set that was third row on the aisle that included souncheck and some other things). I need to get rid of them. Don't want to make a profit, and I'll even eat the charges. So if anyone in Nor Cal/Northern Nevada is planning to attend and want good seats, I'm your guy. It is on Friday, August 25.
Be easier for me to just put em up on TM, so I am hoping that gets turned on soon. But if it's two days before, I doubt I'll have trouble. I'm not looking to make a dime.
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https://metalinjection.net/news/us-department-of-justice-reportedly-preparing-to-sue-live-nation-over-breaking-antitrust-laws (https://metalinjection.net/news/us-department-of-justice-reportedly-preparing-to-sue-live-nation-over-breaking-antitrust-laws)
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https://metalinjection.net/news/us-department-of-justice-reportedly-preparing-to-sue-live-nation-over-breaking-antitrust-laws (https://metalinjection.net/news/us-department-of-justice-reportedly-preparing-to-sue-live-nation-over-breaking-antitrust-laws)
I'm sure this will make things better. :rollin
In truth, the event space thing is problematic. That's entirely LN, though. Ticketmaster is an entirely different matter, and it has nothing to do with LN's ownership. There are things that need to be done with TM, but they need to be addressed separately from the myriad problems with the LN behemoth.
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It's official, livenation is being sued
https://blabbermouth.net/news/live-nation-responds-to-lawsuit-over-alleged-ticketmaster-monopoly (https://blabbermouth.net/news/live-nation-responds-to-lawsuit-over-alleged-ticketmaster-monopoly)
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As much as I want to see Live Nation/Ticketmaster suffer, I'm not exactly sure what needs to be done to remedy all of the issues we are seeing in the Live Events industry. Like will the DOJ force Live Nation to sell some of their venues to a competitor of the industry like AEG? Would that really make things better for the industry and the consumers?
Like a top end popular artist like Taylor Swift is still going to have tickets for thousands of dollars in the GA sections of the stadium regardless of who promotes the shows and people may crazily buy them. That's the concept of demand being shown.