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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chino on May 03, 2012, 08:28:56 AM
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Last class we had a review for our final examine. I wasn't able to attend because I was presenting a powerpoint I did (for Spanish) at the language fair. My professor said she would email me the review guide for our final. I just checked my email and she sent me the final itself! :rollin She is terrible with technology and I know she is never going to realize what she did.
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You might want to consider telling her what she did, anyways.
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You might want to consider telling her what she did, anyways.
This.
If you need any help with spanish let me know.
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You might want to consider telling her what she did, anyways.
Consider it, and then throw away the notion. If you tell her she'll have to actually change the final, come up with all new questions in short notice. Proceeding as planned is the kind thing to do.
*Americans for loose morals and ethical run-arounds are responsible for the content of this post*
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Hay una fiesta en mis pantalones y todo el mundo que viene.
You might want to consider telling her what she did, anyways.
Consider it, and then throw away the notion. If you tell her she'll have to actually change the final, come up with all new questions in short notice. Proceeding as planned is the kind thing to do.
*Americans for loose morals and ethical run-arounds are responsible for the content of this post*
What if the teacher later realizes what she did? Could he get in trouble for not having told her?
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Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.
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Maybe she'll let him slide on a few answers, for having been honest.
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Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.
Yup, the question isn't about advantages or possible future punishment, it's about who you want to be to yourself. If you value honesty or your personal values attach some sense of honor to this issue, wouldn't you be truer to yourself to tell her what happened? What to consider is what your values are.
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Definition of integrity: Doing the right thing when no one else is looking.
One either has integrity, or doesn't. There is no middle ground (IMO). I would fess up.
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What if he values an "A" on his Spanish final? :p
Edit: And I am just being an ass, obviously telling her is the right thing to do
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Yeah, the right thing to do would be to tell your teacher.
A) You immediately rule out any possibility whatsoever that you'll get in trouble.
B) She'll probably have to write a new test, but it'll look just like the old test anyway, and you still have a local copy of the king of all study guides.
C) On the off chance that she doesn't change the test, you'll still have the king of all study guides, just without the possibility of getting in trouble.
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...except that assumes he tells her and then keep a copy to study even if she asks for him to delete it. That's tricking the person into thinking you're honest, not being honest yourself.
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Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.
Wisdom
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Just want to weigh in with my two cents: tell her. Openly explain that you think she sent you the actual final in error and that you wanted to make her aware of the mistake. As others have said, she will value your honesty and you will have not only assured that you won't get in trouble, but you will also demonstrate that you are a man of integrity, honesty and respectability. That will do more for your growth and reputation than any A on any written test ever will.
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Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.
Wisdom
And fucking hard earned wisdom at that.
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Absolutely, tell her. As we say in German, "lies have short legs".
rumborak
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Although the lie may be quick, the truth will catch up with it.
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Think of the possible outcomes:
1) You don't tell her
and she doesn't find out: 10/10 for this scenario. Chance of it happening: let's say 10%
and she finds out: 0/10 you will probably have to re-take it. Change of this happening is then of course 90%
Score for not telling her: (10*0.1 + 0*0.9) / 2 = 0.5/10
2)You tell her
and she only changes it a little bit: 8/10 because you know exactly what to expect. Chance of this happening: I estimate 75%
and she makes it completely different: 5/10 because now you know as much as you would have had she sent the right email in the first place. 25%
Score for telling her: (8*0.75 + 5*0.25) / 2 = 7.25/10
___________________
Or you could just tell her because you want to be a good person, and not because it is obviously the more preferable situation.
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I appreciate the advice guys, but I'm not telling her lol. I could tell by the file extension that it was the final. I forwarded me a copy of the email to another address without opening it, so as far as she can tell I never looked at it...if it comes to that. I am an MIS major. The jobs I am looking to get require impressive GPA's. I have a 3.51 overall right now, and a bad grade on this Spanish final could bring that as low as a 3.25ish. I'm taking the good grade and running. Sure I'll feel like a scumbag (for a minute or two) but if I land a $60k a year job out of college because of it... it's not gonna bother me in the least. If the school had professors that weren't technology retarded, this would never have happened. I'm not cheating on an exam that I should legitimately know for my career, it's a class that will have no bearing on my future endevors. I shouldn't have to be taking a spanish class anyway, I'm only in it because of an education system that's 50 years out of date. I also don't feel bad because at least half of the class (including me) is going to have their phones out with conjugation apps and google translate open the entire time.
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Do what you must. But, are you sure you were the only recipient of that email? If someone else got it and blows the whistle it's gonna come back to you.
rumborak
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There are so many "what if's" with not saying anything.
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Do what you must. But, are you sure you were the only recipient of that email? If someone else got it and blows the whistle it's gonna come back to you.
rumborak
I'm positive that I was the only one. She only sent it to me because she asked me to present a project at a fair that was the same time as class. Today was our last day in class before the final and she didn't say anything. I even went up to her and thanked her for sending it to me and that I really appreciate it. Professors get dozens of emails a day, and that number explodes come the last week of classes. Odds are, my email is already several pages back in her inbox folder. She would have to suspect she sent that to me by accident, actually find it (unlikely cause she doesn't know what's she's doing), prove that I received and opened it, and then explain to the department head that she screwed up.... Worst comes to worst.... I just say that I thought what she sent me was the review. Maybe a past final that was no longer in use.... There is no way this is going to come back and bite me.
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Chino, 9 years ago I tried to cheat on my Spanish final on my last year of college and I got caught. Teacher passed me anyway cause she was dating one of my good friends heh
I'll feel better about that fact if you got away with it ;D
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Chino, 9 years ago I tried to cheat on my Spanish final on my last year of college and I got caught. Teacher passed me anyway cause she was dating one of my good friends heh
I'll feel better about that fact if you got away with it ;D
I've been doing this since highschool, never got caught.
(https://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9258/13670352.jpg)
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Do what you must. But, are you sure you were the only recipient of that email? If someone else got it and blows the whistle it's gonna come back to you.
rumborak
I'm positive that I was the only one. She only sent it to me because she asked me to present a project at a fair that was the same time as class. Today was our last day in class before the final and she didn't say anything. I even went up to her and thanked her for sending it to me and that I really appreciate it. Professors get dozens of emails a day, and that number explodes come the last week of classes. Odds are, my email is already several pages back in her inbox folder. She would have to suspect she sent that to me by accident, actually find it (unlikely cause she doesn't know what's she's doing), prove that I received and opened it, and then explain to the department head that she screwed up.... Worst comes to worst.... I just say that I thought what she sent me was the review. Maybe a past final that was no longer in use.... There is no way this is going to come back and bite me.
(https://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png)
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I appreciate the advice guys, but I'm not telling her lol. I could tell by the file extension that it was the final. I forwarded me a copy of the email to another address without opening it, so as far as she can tell I never looked at it...if it comes to that. I am an MIS major. The jobs I am looking to get require impressive GPA's. I have a 3.51 overall right now, and a bad grade on this Spanish final could bring that as low as a 3.25ish. I'm taking the good grade and running. Sure I'll feel like a scumbag (for a minute or two) but if I land a $60k a year job out of college because of it... it's not gonna bother me in the least. If the school had professors that weren't technology retarded, this would never have happened. I'm not cheating on an exam that I should legitimately know for my career, it's a class that will have no bearing on my future endevors. I shouldn't have to be taking a spanish class anyway, I'm only in it because of an education system that's 50 years out of date. I also don't feel bad because at least half of the class (including me) is going to have their phones out with conjugation apps and google translate open the entire time.
Wow. That's some impressive rationalization there. You should go into politics.
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I would tell you that what you are doing is wrong but I will actually tell you a story from when I was in high school. Last year in high school we had a test that all courses had to take for each of the main subjects, math, physics, spanish.... I turns out that a couple of kids got the physics test. The kids were smart enough to actually put some wrong answers so to not rise any suspicions however they were caught and had to recourse the whole year.
It's up to you and as I said, if you need any help with spanish let me know.
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I will admit, I put shorthand notes (that basically no one other than myself could make sense of) on my right (non-writing) palm throughout all of high school and through three different colleges without ever getting caught. So yeah, like many, I'm not supporting what Chino's doing, but frankly I'm not perfect and I know most others aren't either.
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Chino, 9 years ago I tried to cheat on my Spanish final on my last year of college and I got caught. Teacher passed me anyway cause she was dating one of my good friends heh
I'll feel better about that fact if you got away with it ;D
I've been doing this since highschool, never got caught.
(https://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9258/13670352.jpg)
Dude, wtf. You were just complaining about people using their conjugation apps etc., and you've been cheating since highschool? Whatev.
rumborak
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This thread is fascinating.
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Dude, wtf. You were just complaining about people using their conjugation apps etc., and you've been cheating since highschool? Whatev.
rumborak
I didn't take it as complaining that they were doing it. It seemed more like "Hey, others will be cheating regardless, so why should I not avail myself of some sort of advantage also?"
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Chino, 9 years ago I tried to cheat on my Spanish final on my last year of college and I got caught. Teacher passed me anyway cause she was dating one of my good friends heh
I'll feel better about that fact if you got away with it ;D
I've been doing this since highschool, never got caught.
*snip*
Dude, wtf. You were just complaining about people using their conjugation apps etc., and you've been cheating since highschool? Whatev.
rumborak
I wasnt complaining, I said "I also don't feel bad because at least half of the class (including me) is going to have their phones out with conjugation apps and google translate open the entire time"
I dedicate a lot of time to school. I am on campus at least 40 hours a week. I always have tons of work to do. If I have 10 hours to spend in the library on a given day, I have to manage that how I see best. I am going to spend as much time as I can on the courses that are actually going to apply to my field. I could spend 7 hours practicing finance and 3 on spanish, or all 10 on finance. I choose all 10 on finance because I feel that's what is actually best for my future. I'm sure that seems twisted, but I am going to use the resources hear to learn what I am going to need to know for life, not just what I'm going to need to "know" for a language exam.
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That's how I understood it too.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
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I cheated once in 8th grade, this kid next to me and I hadn't finished our big science homework and he told me we should fill in each other's sheets, with a few mistakes here and there of course. Throughout the day I just kept feeling like I shouldn't have done that, so by the time I got home I was crying and immediately told my parents. The next morning we went in to talk to the teacher, I told him what happened, apologized, and I got to re do the paper because I was honest, while the other kid didn't, and got a detention. Needless to say he never talked to me again, even though the teacher made up a bogus story about the substitute spotting us.
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lol, just make sure she doesn't see this thread.
Edit: wait, you study for ten hours every day?
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I'm no moral paragon, but, I have never cheated on a test in my life. And even if I did, I'd be too ashamed of myself to tell others about it, let alone try to rationalize my behavior.
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lol, just make sure she doesn't see this thread.
Edit: wait, you study for ten hours every day?
Well not study as is reading books in notes.. but 10 hours doing work and going to class. I have at most 3 hours of class in a day and usually spend at least 7 hours in the library or computer lab. I don't cheat in spanish because I'm lazy and don't want to do work... I do plenty of work. I just can't wrap my head around dedicating hours and hours to a pointless class when I could be spending that time actually learning things that are important and needed for my future.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I echo these sentiments.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I'm no moral paragon, but, I have never cheated on a test in my life. And even if I did, I'd be too ashamed of myself to tell others about it, let alone try to rationalize my behavior.
But that is kind of my point: I think many would not tell the teacher, take the final knowing what will be on it and not tell a soul what happened, while when asked by someone what they should do in a similar scenario, tell them that they should do "the right thing" and fess up. A lot of people are sneaky/shady/hypocritical like that.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I would in a heartbeat, but I am a very guilt and shame driven person, such actions would eat me alive.
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...except that assumes he tells her and then keep a copy to study even if she asks for him to delete it. That's tricking the person into thinking you're honest, not being honest yourself.
We're working off the assumption that the OP doesn't care about honesty and is working in his own self-interest, as his replies would indicate.
I appreciate the advice guys, but I'm not telling her lol. I could tell by the file extension that it was the final. I forwarded me a copy of the email to another address without opening it, so as far as she can tell I never looked at it...if it comes to that. I am an MIS major. The jobs I am looking to get require impressive GPA's. I have a 3.51 overall right now, and a bad grade on this Spanish final could bring that as low as a 3.25ish. I'm taking the good grade and running. Sure I'll feel like a scumbag (for a minute or two) but if I land a $60k a year job out of college because of it... it's not gonna bother me in the least. If the school had professors that weren't technology retarded, this would never have happened. I'm not cheating on an exam that I should legitimately know for my career, it's a class that will have no bearing on my future endevors. I shouldn't have to be taking a spanish class anyway, I'm only in it because of an education system that's 50 years out of date. I also don't feel bad because at least half of the class (including me) is going to have their phones out with conjugation apps and google translate open the entire time.
Consider telling her, if only because your "honesty" would probably give you a really nice letter of rec.
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And people do this ::) when I tell them that as a hiring manager (in the MIS business) "education" credentials are meaningless to me :|
I should bookmark this thread.
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We're working off the assumption that the OP doesn't care about honesty and is working in his own self-interest, as his replies would indicate.
Serious question: who doesn't work in his/her own self-interest? Note that saying someone works in their own interest doesn't mean they don't work in the interest of others as well (like a family member, spouse, etc.), just that their own self-interest is a priority (but not necessarily the only priority).
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Everybody works in their own self-interest. Perhaps I would've more accurately worded it as "working only in his own self-interest"; what I meant to express was that the "ethics" of this particular situation were not a concern to him.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I'm no moral paragon, but, I have never cheated on a test in my life. And even if I did, I'd be too ashamed of myself to tell others about it, let alone try to rationalize my behavior.
I understand this attitude completely.... but landing a decent job is the most important thing in my life right now. Especially in a field that is full of outsourcing and not prepared for properly in the current US college system. The only thing that matters to me is getting that job and being able to do it. If I am in a class that is not applicable to my future, and I can turn a B into an A by putting a piece of paper in my pen... of course I am going to do it. This world is dog eat dog, and I will do just about anything in my power to get to where I need to. If cheating on Spanish exams (which really does NO harm to anyone) means being able to support a family and enjoy life, I'm doing it. In the grand scheme of life, these little acts, at least in my mind, are well worth it. I'm securing my future and well being. I'll be damned if I were to not be able to find work because I was not able to get good grades in Spanish or Philosophy, and even more pissed if I got into a job and realized I didn't know enough because I had to dedicate too much time to pointless classes. I make this my advantage.
I know this just sounds like a justification excuse to many, but it is how I justify my actions. Am I in the right by cheating on an exam? Absolutely not. Am I doing it for a good cause? Yes I am. I don't cheat in everything. I only cheat in the classes that I don't believe I should be taking. It's bad enough that the school is already robbing me of thousands of dollars to take them, I'm not letting them rob me of my time. I genuinely put in 100% honest effort into classes that are necessary for me. Cheating in Spanish will not have any bearing on my future. If I were to cheat in say Visual Basic, I am getting a good grade, but I'm not doing myself any favors. If anything, I've jepordized my future.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I would in a heartbeat, but I am a very guilt and shame driven person, such actions would eat me alive.
This, definitely, applies to me as well.
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And people do this ::) when I tell them that as a hiring manager (in the MIS business) "education" credentials are meaningless to me :|
I should bookmark this thread.
My academic advisor is a also a hiring manager outside of school. He said when he get's a stack of applications, the only ones that get to second stack are the ones that have great GPA's and Internships. He said that the GPA is the first thing he sees (this pisses me off). I could have all As in computer and business classes, but if I were to get low Bs in all my science language classes, my GPA is shit. He said he doesn't even look into individual grades, just your overall. Hearing stuff like that makes me (and I know everyone feels differently) not care that I have have to cheat. If a 3.3 doesn't get my application looked at and a 3.6 does... I am doind whatever is necessary to get to that 3.6. I don't care if I have to bribe the teacher... I'm getting that GPA. I'm not going to graduate and not be able to find work because I wanted to take an honest B over a slightly unearned A.
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I'm no moral paragon, but, I have never cheated on a test in my life. And even if I did, I'd be too ashamed of myself to tell others about it, let alone try to rationalize my behavior.
If you got clocked speeding by cop and were about to be let go without even getting a warning... would you request the ticket anyway because you were ashamed that you got an advantage that not everybody gets?
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I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
Whatever, I would and have done these kinds of things. If you take developing your own moral code seriously you find so called hard decisions easy to make. If you can't follow your own thoughts on conduct why value them? Yes, lots of people grandstand, but many aren't.
I wonder how many people saying that he should fess up and tell her would actually do it themselves. Forgive my pessimism, but I have seen a lot of grandstanding by people over the years when it comes to morals and integrity, and more often than not, those people are full of shit; I can think of several ex-co-workers off the top of my head.
I'm no moral paragon, but, I have never cheated on a test in my life. And even if I did, I'd be too ashamed of myself to tell others about it, let alone try to rationalize my behavior.
If you got clocked speeding by cop and were about to be let go without even getting a warning... would you request the ticket anyway because you were ashamed that you got an advantage that not everybody gets?
First, laws vs tests can generate different opinions because they're different beasts. Second, one is the authority giving a break the other is an ignorant authority.
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And people do this ::) when I tell them that as a hiring manager (in the MIS business) "education" credentials are meaningless to me :|
I should bookmark this thread.
My academic advisor is a also a hiring manager outside of school. He said when he get's a stack of applications, the only ones that get to second stack are the ones that have great GPA's and Internships. He said that the GPA is the first thing he sees (this pisses me off). I could have all As in computer and business classes, but if I were to get low Bs in all my science language classes, my GPA is shit. He said he doesn't even look into individual grades, just your overall. Hearing stuff like that makes me (and I know everyone feels differently) not care that I have have to cheat. If a 3.3 doesn't get my application looked at and a 3.6 does... I am doind whatever is necessary to get to that 3.6. I don't care if I have to bribe the teacher... I'm getting that GPA. I'm not going to graduate and not be able to find work because I wanted to take an honest B over a slightly unearned A.
I think you missed my point. For the very reasons you have rationalized your cheating in this thread (the perception that it will somehow help you get ahead in life) I pay ZERO attention to anything related to formal education when I am evaluating potential staff members. I couldn't possibly care less what their "GPA" is because, as you have so eloquently pointed out right here in this thread, today's graduating college student very likely cheated their way through school, so their GPA (like your future GPA) isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's bullshit window dressing. The product of notes in pens, and code on the palms of hands, and Google Translate and calculators on the screens of smartphones hidden under desks.
What you can't cheat on, though is experience. (and honor and integrity, but that's a different angle to this) And that's why, now that I am in a position where I hire people, I only hire people with proven and verifiable track records (experience) in the business. Here, you are illustrating the perfect example of why I toss resumes from college graduates directly in the trash can, regardless of their alleged GPA. No offense to you personally, Chino, you do what you think you've got to do. Good luck with that.
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Absolutely, tell her. As we say in German, "lies have short legs".
rumborak
bullshit. that's english
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Great post Kirk. Fortunately in my business, we try out cooks before hiring, get to find out real quick if a guy sucks or not.
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The only issue I have with what Kirk said is the "throwing away apps from college grads". It's fucking impossible to find jobs (at least where I live). Everyone wants 3yrs+ experience and want to pay shit money. Entry level jobs are few and far between. You ought to at least interview those people. You could be missing out on some special talent.
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The only issue I have with what Kirk said is the "throwing away apps from college grads". It's fucking impossible to find jobs (at least where I live). Everyone wants 3yrs+ experience and want to pay shit money. Entry level jobs are few and far between. You ought to at least interview those people. You could be missing out on some special talent.
Yup. Not saying you should even look at their grades, but find a few that looks like winners and see what they can do and how they act at least.
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And people do this ::) when I tell them that as a hiring manager (in the MIS business) "education" credentials are meaningless to me :|
I should bookmark this thread.
My academic advisor is a also a hiring manager outside of school. He said when he get's a stack of applications, the only ones that get to second stack are the ones that have great GPA's and Internships. He said that the GPA is the first thing he sees (this pisses me off). I could have all As in computer and business classes, but if I were to get low Bs in all my science language classes, my GPA is shit. He said he doesn't even look into individual grades, just your overall. Hearing stuff like that makes me (and I know everyone feels differently) not care that I have have to cheat. If a 3.3 doesn't get my application looked at and a 3.6 does... I am doind whatever is necessary to get to that 3.6. I don't care if I have to bribe the teacher... I'm getting that GPA. I'm not going to graduate and not be able to find work because I wanted to take an honest B over a slightly unearned A.
I think you missed my point. For the very reasons you have rationalized your cheating in this thread (the perception that it will somehow help you get ahead in life) I pay ZERO attention to anything related to formal education when I am evaluating potential staff members. I couldn't possibly care less what their "GPA" is because, as you have so eloquently pointed out right here in this thread, today's graduating college student very likely cheated their way through school, so their GPA (like your future GPA) isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's bullshit window dressing. The product of notes in pens, and code on the palms of hands, and Google Translate and calculators on the screens of smartphones hidden under desks.
What you can't cheat on, though is experience. (and honor and integrity, but that's a different angle to this) And that's why, now that I am in a position where I hire people, I only hire people with proven and verifiable track records (experience) in the business. Here, you are illustrating the perfect example of why I toss resumes from college graduates directly in the trash can, regardless of their alleged GPA. No offense to you personally, Chino, you do what you think you've got to do. Good luck with that.
I understood what you meant. I was just simply pointing out that unfortunately not every person who hires thinks like you do. That is why I will only cheat in classes that I don't really need to know anything about. Any class that has to do with my future profession gets an insane amount of time and dedication, and I make sure I genuinely earn the A that I get. Experience and actual work ability is my number one goal and my GPA is second. The GPA is only there for the people who still believe everyone who graduates college does so honestly.
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The only issue I have with what Kirk said is the "throwing away apps from college grads". It's fucking impossible to find jobs (at least where I live). Everyone wants 3yrs+ experience and want to pay shit money. Entry level jobs are few and far between. You ought to at least interview those people. You could be missing out on some special talent.
There's plenty of talented people with experience out of a job right now. Kirk doesn't need to take the risk.
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Well man, you've got to live with that. I just hope it bites you in the ass. I like you, but you should take the high road. I think there is no problem checking out the questions and then letting her know what happened. But not telling her is pretty bad. Not telling the whole truth is just as bad as lying.
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When we've hired designers, we've given them test projects to take home. That is, of course, after the interview process, so we would have already determined the worthiness of the applicant. One would be amazed at how many supposedly good portfolios are padded by college projects that were half-aided by the professors or seemingly awesome designs that are really just lifted backgrounds with a little typesetting added. We've had impressive prospects take home the trial work and submit designs that not only aren't worth the pixels displaying them, but commit so many cardinal design sins that they are thrown in the Fuck It Bucket almost instantly.
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Oh, and by the way, those "bullshit" classes that aren't directly tied to your major are required for a reason.
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The only issue I have with what Kirk said is the "throwing away apps from college grads". It's fucking impossible to find jobs (at least where I live). Everyone wants 3yrs+ experience and want to pay shit money. Entry level jobs are few and far between. You ought to at least interview those people. You could be missing out on some special talent.
This world is dog eat dog
Funny how that cuts in both directions, ain't it?
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Meh, I just think you shouldn't brush people off that quickly. I don't expect you to be fair, but that's pretty asinine.
edit: i dont mean interview all of them. obviously that takes too much time. but you should check out the resumes and challenge yourself to find one or two who stand out, for some reason, to you. some of us young guns would lick peanut butter off of a ball sack for a job. they might work hard.
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The only issue I have with what Kirk said is the "throwing away apps from college grads". It's fucking impossible to find jobs (at least where I live). Everyone wants 3yrs+ experience and want to pay shit money. Entry level jobs are few and far between. You ought to at least interview those people. You could be missing out on some special talent.
There's plenty of talented people with experience out of a job right now. Kirk doesn't need to take the risk.
I put an ad on Craigslist last week for a position I am hiring for now. I had to take it down after two days because I had 1200 applicants, most of them ridiculously far beyond qualified for the position and every single one of them most likely willing to make half of what they were making at their last job just so they can get hired.
Bottom line: I have absolutely no need or desire to take a risk on some kid who gaffed his way through school and has no experience in the real world.
Hey, I do my part to help local college kids in this area - we have an internship program here and every year I have at least two interns working for me. And we even pay them, unlike a lot of companies around here.
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Meh, I just think you shouldn't brush people off that quickly. I don't expect you to be fair, but that's pretty asinine.
That's life, dude.
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Meh, I just think you shouldn't brush people off that quickly. I don't expect you to be fair, but that's pretty asinine.
That's life, dude.
I edited the post. Also, I just saw about your internship. That's actually pretty cool.
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Why would he want to hire someone straight out of college when, like he said, he already has tons of qualified applicants with working experience knocking at the door? It's not his fault.
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Why would he want to hire someone straight out of college when, like he said, he already has tons of qualified applicants with working experience knocking at the door? It's not his fault.
Because I'm one of those college kids? Even though it's just a two year (which I know is bullshit haha), it's still stupid that I can't find work. The shit in college I "lernd" was nothing new for me in the world of computer networking. I have "experience" in that I help out the local school district in the summer with their computer systems. But I can't even find $8.00/hr to help physically repair computers. That's what I find stupid.
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The one thing that Chino wrote in here that is a good point is this is a dog eat dog world. I am not here at this company for going on 13 years because I was charitable and took chances I didn't need to take. That's just how things work in the business world. I didn't make the rules, but I have to play by them.
Out of my 7 staff (about to be 8) two of them were interns for me who I ended up hiring when they graduated. But the only reason I hired them was because I got to see them in action first. Both of them offered me copies of their transcripts from school and I passed on them in both cases, because, frankly, I don't give a shit what your grades were, what I care about is can you program that router or help Nancy in accounting get connected to the printer. Everything else is bullshit.
snapple, I urge you to find an internship somewhere. Experience is king, especially now with millions of people out of work.
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snapple, I urge you to find an internship somewhere. Experience is king, especially now with millions of people out of work.
Doing my best, it's impossible to find one in northern lower michigan. I can send you a message privately about what's going on. and, yeah I understand what you're saying. Just kind of irks me because I am fucked. I know I can do the work. If I don't know something, I'm very open and willing to learn it etc.
back OT:
Chino, fess up.
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Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.
If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.
It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.
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Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.
If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.
It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.
I get that. I'm just saying if you dismiss everyone because they're fresh out of college, you could miss out on someone special. I don't think anyone is owed any favors.
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you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls
I so have to start using this line. :rollin
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Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.
If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.
It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.
Precisely.
snapple - the reason I hire interns is because one of the guys on my team who has now been with me for over 10 years and is my lead engineer started as an intern. Dude is an incredibly talented engineer. Easily the best guy on my team. He's our "go to" guy. So, I get what you're saying about potentially missing out on someone by dismissing college grads, but......Hyperplex is right on the money. Given the choice between a recent college grad and a person with experience, there's no contest. That's just how life is in today's business world.
Things were different 10 years ago. The economy was fucking booming and it was hard to find anyone with skills and experience to work in the I.T. field. I had two positions back in 2001 that went unfilled for the entire year. I was doing the work of three people, often putting in 80 or 90 hours a week. It was brutal. That's how I ended up hiring my lead guy. Out of sheer desperation I went down to a couple of local colleges and put up some flyers advertising for paid internships and he applied. When he graduated I ended up making him an offer.
Contrast that with today. I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position. And that was after the ad being up for just three days. I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work.
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Just give me the job.
We're best friends, right?
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Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.
If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.
It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.
Contrast that with today. I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position. And that was after the ad being up for just three days. I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work.
This is so depressing.
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Here's the thing: companies are not hiring people to improve the applicants' lives; they are hiring to improve the company itself. Most, if not all, hiring managers and HR people couldn't give two shitting pigs in a fuckfarm how difficult the job search is for anyone else out there, they are simply intent on improving and growing the company by filling the open position with a qualified person.
If I'm presented with two applicants, one out of work but has 7 years professional design experience, a solid portfolio and a resumé that shows his experienced qualifications and the other a recent college grad with little to no professional experience outside of coursework but an impressive portfolio and they are both willing to accept the job under the same salary, you can bet the entirety of your ass and balls that I'm going to hire the one with experience. I'm much more confident giving the open position in my company to someone who has already proven he can work and perform in the industry and won't force us to hold his or her hand through the acclimation process.
It may suck to be a college grad, but you'll have a very hard time getting any sympathy from a company with funds to spend, a position to fill and a bottom line to meet.
Contrast that with today. I got 1200 freaking applicants for an entry-level help desk support tech position. And that was after the ad being up for just three days. I have several applicants that are qualified for MY position (hell, some of them are overqualified for my position) and whose most recent jobs were earning well into 6 figures, and in their cover letters they are practically begging me for this $50k per year spot doing what amounts to schmuck work.
This is so depressing.
Hell yes it is.
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Sorry guys....the professional world can be really good at straightening one's colon with a rusty iron stick.
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It's good motivation. The legal jobs market is shit right now, but if I can keep cranking out As I should stand a fair chance.
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nm
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I gotta say that next time I am frustrated with my job, I just need to read this thread, reflect on the fact that I'm a union employee at a landmark hotel with strong seniority, man up, shut the fuck up, and be very grateful.
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I gotta say that next time I am frustrated with my job, I just need to read this thread, reflect on the fact that I'm a union employee at a landmark hotel with strong seniority, man up, shut the fuck up, and be very grateful.
Perspective, man. Perspective.
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Regarding the OP, another thing: Isn't the teacher going to miss a response from whoever she actually intended to send the thing to?
rumborak
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She meant to send it to the OP, but she just sent the wrong thing (she sent the final itself as opposed to the review).
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Regarding the OP, another thing: Isn't the teacher going to miss a response from whoever she actually intended to send the thing to?
rumborak
No.
We had powerpoint presentations last week. Mine kicked ass, I put a lot of work into it. She liked it so much she asked if I would be willing to present it at the annual language fair. She also offered me 10 bonus points on whichever exam I choose if I were to agree. The problem was, the language fair was at the same time as our class, which also happened to be the review day for our final. The professor handed out and went over a review guide with the class to prepare them for the final exam next week. She went to email me the guide that she passed out in class, but emailed me the final itself. She probably had the in class one named "Final Exam Review", or something like that, and the one I got was "Final Exam Actual". She must have clicked the wrong file on of her flash drive.
One of the other reasons why I don't feel so bad is because we have online homework assigned every day that we have class. These are usually only open until the next class period. I scored a 100% on these for the semester. I did every assignment as soon as it was open, and put a lot of time and effort into them. I didn't miss a single assignment all semester, and I should mention that our homework grade counts as a full exam grade (or 20% of our final grade). More than half the class was below a 60 for the homework with two weeks left of class. She reopened all of the closed assignments in order to allow those who didn't do most of them to receive FULL credit on them. To me that is very unfair and it aggrivates the fuck out of me.
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Personally, I would do it too. I've never cheated before, cause I generally have a great memory for tests, but I was kinda born without the emotions of guilt or shame I guess. Haha.
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By the way, great job writing all about it on the Internet.
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Everything Kirk has said in this thread is the reason why I skipped doing post-grad, incurring another 10-15k of debt, and went out and got a few years' "head start" of intern experience instead. (I did intend to go back eventually and do post-grad, and kind of still do, but it really depends on how things pan out in the next few years, and whether I feel I'm going to need it). I still don't know if it was the right choice, but that an employer might think the way he does was my reasoning.
Oh, and by the way, those "bullshit" classes that aren't directly tied to your major are required for a reason.
YES. To me, university (college, whatever) isn't about busting your ass on the necessary papers so you can get out while just scraping through the classes you picked to make up the numbers, it's about proving how you can deal with the pressure of the entire experience. If I was hiring and looked at someone who had amazing grades in their major but everything else was shite, I doubt I'd feel inclined to go with them. And if I even suspected they might have cheated on any course, regardless of whether it was an 'important' one or not, they wouldn't stand a chance.
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Right now you have the opportunity to be as honest of a man as you will ever be given the chance to be, take it.
This. I have made the mistake of not giving back improperly counted back change (twice), and cheated on a government exam my first freshman semester. I don't beat myself up over it anymore, but it was not one of my finer moments, to be sure.
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Absolutely, tell her. As we say in German, "lies have short legs".
rumborak
bullshit. that's english
:rollin
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Well, if nothing else this thread makes me feel better about having a hard time finding a job since I graduated :lol
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With the whole "ignoring recent grads", I know of a local biotech firm that literally got over 100 applicants for a position cleaning mouse cages. They ended up throwing away all the applications except 6-7 who had some sort of rodent laboratory certification, despite the fact that the job description requires little-to-nothing going on upstairs (they clean up mouse shit, ffs).
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Bear in mind, I didn't say I'd ignore a recent grad, just that between a grad and a seasoned veteran, the job goes to the vet.
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And I was just pointing out that with the way the economy is, situations like that are pretty much guaranteed to occur.
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I understand. Nothing is ever easy or simple.
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Wow... this was quite the thread to miss out on today. Couple of things to address/retort:
Kev... since you basically quoted my post, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that I would tell the teacher. Doing the right thing isn't always popular, and the popular thing isn't always right. Seriously, integrity is a non-starter for me... you have it, or you don't. There's no "yeah, I act with integrity most of the time ... unless it's in my best interest not to". :lol Personally, I do the right thing... ALWAYS. Sometime's it's hard to figure out what "the right thing" is, but once you have it figured out, there's no questioning your next move.
As it relates to a dog-eat-dog world, that doesn't meant lie/cheat/steal. Barry... I'm sure it goes without saying that all of the risks you took to elevate your career were done without compromising any moral standards.
On the issue of hiring, and shying away from college grads ... This is a very short-sighted tactic (and unfortunately it's very prevalent in my business/industry too), and is only going to fuck ourselves in ... oh, say 10 years or so, when we don't have a new crop of talent that's been cultivated properly. You know the old saying, you reap what you sow. It is reality though.
Fluffy... part 2 was a great post. To all the students here, school is simply a prep for the rest of your life. If you simply cheated your way through school, all you've done is short-changed yourself, and the rest of your life. Just so you know, you may be able to cheat on a test, but once you're out of school, you can't cheat on life.
And to Chino... dude, if you really think your job prospects are affected by your GPA, and thus your mark in this course, and thus your mark on this exam... your sadly mistaken. However, the measure of anyone's worth is affected by the choices they make, and the actions they take. History is filled with bad deeds by individuals who can "justify" the means.
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Now for the twist in the story...
I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.
0%
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Now for the twist in the story...
I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.
0%
Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese! :lol
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Now for the twist in the story...
I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.
0%
No hay suficientes horas en un dia. Dedico todo mi tiempo para las clases que me parecen mas importantes. No tengo tiempo los fines de semana porque trabajo doce horas el sabado y once horas el domingo
(other than the lack of accent marks, I think that's correct)
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Now for the twist in the story...
I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.
0%
Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese! :lol
:lol, good catch.
Also, Chino... That is a lot of work you've been doing on your weekends.
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Now for the twist in the story...
I am the Spanish Professor. Chino, como puedes justificar sus acciones diciendo que necesitas esta nota para obtener un trabajo bueno? Si la nota es tan imortante para tu futuro, por que no puedes estudiar mas? La seleccion 'correcto' es completamente obvio.
0%
Since you're speaking Spanish, you just called him Chinese! :lol
:lol, good catch.
Also, Chino... That is a lot of work you've been doing on your weekends.
I'm aware. I'm at school all day Mon-Fri, I need to make as much money as I can on the days I don't have classes.
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Well, concerning the final, I cannot tell you what to do. Nor can anyone else here on DTF. Ultimately, it is your decision to make and it is not my place to preach morals to a stranger across the internet. I just hope you do what is best for yourself.
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Woo! Cheat in school and then brag about it on the internet!
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Kev... since you basically quoted my post, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that I would tell the teacher. Doing the right thing isn't always popular, and the popular thing isn't always right. Seriously, integrity is a non-starter for me... you have it, or you don't. There's no "yeah, I act with integrity most of the time ... unless it's in my best interest not to". :lol Personally, I do the right thing... ALWAYS. Sometime's it's hard to figure out what "the right thing" is, but once you have it figured out, there's no questioning your next move.
I was not singling you or anyone else here out when I said that. I know you know that, but just wanted to say it. :)
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Yo debería ser tu maestro de español.
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Tendrá pelear conmigo para el trabajo.
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Yo debería ser tu maestro de español.
Shouldn't you use the presente tense instead of the imperfecto?
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Says who, your pen? :P
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Says who, your pen? :P
:lol
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I haven't cheated my entire way through Spanish :lol I have put plenty of time into the course and do know a good deal.
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Kev... since you basically quoted my post, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that I would tell the teacher. Doing the right thing isn't always popular, and the popular thing isn't always right. Seriously, integrity is a non-starter for me... you have it, or you don't. There's no "yeah, I act with integrity most of the time ... unless it's in my best interest not to". :lol Personally, I do the right thing... ALWAYS. Sometime's it's hard to figure out what "the right thing" is, but once you have it figured out, there's no questioning your next move.
I was not singling you or anyone else here out when I said that. I know you know that, but just wanted to say it. :)
Didn't think you were 'calling me out' or anything, and wasn't intending to either if I did. I just wanted to respond to your post asking how many people really would act that way. You're right, some people only talk a good game. Just had to say that I'm not one of them. I really do mean everything that I posted.
Oh, and your inbox is full.
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Says who, your pen? :P
:lol
Classico!!!
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Maybe people are just making poor major choices, but I can tell you that I graduated with less than a 3.0 - largely dinged up by non-chemistry classes, and still got into a top 30 grad school in my field. I followed that up with an extended and less than successful graduate research career. The school and/or my advisor would have been well within their rights in handing me a masters degree several years ago and telling me to get lost, and I've seen it happen to other people as well. But my advisor and people in charge of the department stuck by me because I had shown them on several occasions that I did the right thing even though it wasn't in my best interest to do so. Other grad students have better grades and more publications than me, but if my preliminary feedback from job hunt is any indication I'm going to be fine because I have about six people I can count on to fight tooth and nail for me.
I realize that your Spanish professor wasn't going to write you a recommendation, but had you been forthright in your information that story could have easily been relayed to you main advisor or whoever you were going to have be your home run hitter. In the absence of other things, yes, things like GPA are used to find 10 candidates out of 200 because you can't realistically interview all 200. But networking is a very powerful tool, and having someone who is willing to fight tooth and nail for you is one of the best things you can have, particularly when a google search of your name is going to bring up some incredibly unflattering stuff.
Not passing judgement, just some food for thought.
Also, if you make 60k out of school I'm going to be extremely pissed.
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Ugh, this discussion of the jobs market is incredibly depressing.
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While it would be the right thing to tell her about the mistake, personally I know that I probably wouldn't. I'm not the type of person who would cheat on a test, but if the test would just fall down in my lap so I could look at it in advance, I would most likely do it.
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Ugh, this discussion of the jobs market is incredibly depressing.
Pigs, pigs, pigs.
Just think of a porn where the Gardner or pool cleaner is doing the CEO's wife and daughter while he dismisses your papers, this &/or beer ought to reduce the pain of injustice ;D
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Yeah, the job market is terrible. I know it's only a summer internship, but I was still so lucky to get it. It just happened by chance.
Our class went to visit an insurance company for a day. They split up the tour into the different business majors so you could listen to professionals who worked in your specific area. Out of the 50 or so students, I ended up being the only IT major there. So I got to talk a bunch of people one on one. Afterwards, one guy said i should apply for a summer internship position. he even got my application in a couple days after the deadline. After them looking at my resume, doing a phone interview, and an in person interview, I managed to snag it. It's paid pretty well for a first internship too.
The moral of the story is the same as what a lot of our business professors say about finding jobs. It's more about people you know, experience, and how likable you are rather then your grades when it comes to getting hired.
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I would tell her personally, but I'm pretty against cheating. It annoys me when other people do it cos it seems unfair to everyone else who has put in genuine effort and worked hard, and I just wouldn't do it myself. The only time I've ever thought that cheating would benefit me was when I needed to get 5 As at higher to get in to university and I wasn't sure if I'd manage it in English cos I'd had a few Bs etc. But I figured if I can't just put my head down and work on my weaker points then I probably wouldn't have what it takes to get through med school anyway, so I just worked my ass off for it and ended up getting a band 1, and I'm a lot prouder of that than I would be if I had cheated. I guess everyone has different outlooks on this sort of thing though.
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Personally I think you made a big mistake in not telling her. Hope it doesnt backfire on you.
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Ugh, this discussion of the jobs market is incredibly depressing.
Welcome to my life.
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Ugh, this discussion of the jobs market is incredibly depressing.
Welcome to my life.
Welcome to my life in a couple of years.
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I would either tell her or just not look at the test at all (and not tell her). The second way is less honest with her and if she does discover it you can still get caught but at least you are being honest with yourself by not giving yourself an advantage and it makes it a lot easier on the teacher.
Also I've never cheated on a test... once in highschool a mate stole a physics test in the morning before we had the test and I saw a couple of answers but we got in massive trouble for it (I was fine cause I didn't really intend to see the test).
Didn't realise the jobs market was so bad in America. In my field I'm pretty much guarenteed a pretty high paying job straight out of uni no matter on marks. I still get all HD's and stuff just so I can feel good about myself :p
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Chino - I genuinely don't care if you cheat. If you can't be bothered to do the test, that's your prerogative. It's not what I'd do myself, but they make you jump through some pretty stupid hoops and it sounds like you've spent enough time jumping that using a get out of jail free card on this one test isn't a slippery slope, isn't a big deal, and probably won't doom you to a life of crime.
You know more than us, and you can weigh up the risks yourself. I've always felt the risk of getting caught doesn't justify the gain of cheating, personally, so I used to just half-ass things when I couldn't be bothered. Which was fairly often, with erratic results, but then again GPAs don't make a spot of difference like they do over there. Which is good. I'd hate the American system.
Still! High risk, high reward. I've got no responsibility to you, and I don't think it's my place to talk you out of it. I know that if I were one of your classmates and I'd been studying for weeks (as if!) I'd want to crucify you. But it isn't a holy template of things to come lest ye not repent. It's just a test. And, by the sounds of things, one that you wouldn't remember taking five years down the line if you didn't receive that email. Go nuts.
If it's anything like my language tests in secondary school, knowing the questions in advance can only help so much anyway. You still need to be able to write fluent prose. You can plan the essay in your head, learn a few salient words ahead of time, sure - but if you're shit at Spanish, you're shit at Spanish. And, by the looks of things, you're probably not.
But yeah, who am I to tell you not to live by the sword? You know you've got a chance of getting caught, and have a fair idea of the odds going in - it's your own mistake to make. Or battle to win, as the case may be. Tell us how it goes!
I would either tell her or just not look at the test at all (and not tell her). The second way is less honest with her and if she does discover it you can still get caught but at least you are being honest with yourself by not giving yourself an advantage and it makes it a lot easier on the teacher.
Also I've never cheated on a test... once in highschool a mate stole a physics test in the morning before we had the test and I saw a couple of answers but we got in massive trouble for it (I was fine cause I didn't really intend to see the test).
Didn't realise the jobs market was so bad in America. In my field I'm pretty much guarenteed a pretty high paying job straight out of uni no matter on marks. I still get all HD's and stuff just so I can feel good about myself :p
I was pretty much guaranteed a decent job straight out of uni when I joined uni. By the time I graduated, not so much.
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Great post Rob.
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Personally I think you made a big mistake in not telling her. Hope it doesnt backfire on you.
This. If something like this were to happen to me I would definitely tell them, no doubt about it.
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While it would be the right thing to tell her about the mistake, personally I know that I probably wouldn't. I'm not the type of person who would cheat on a test, but if the test would just fall down in my lap so I could look at it in advance, I would most likely do it.
This is pretty much where I am. Technically it's cheating to look at the exam ahead of time, but he didn't go out of his way to find it; she actually sent the damned thing to him. I think that definitely changes things, though I can't say how much. I'm sure some would say that it doesn't change things at all (but they're wrong).
I consider myself an honest guy, but I know I would probably at least take a peek at it.
Then I'd feel bad and delete it.
Then I'd wrestle with telling the prof, and chicken out in the end because I'd have to admit I looked at the exam.
Then I'd feel stupid about the whole thing, because if I'm gonna feel guilty and bad, I might as well have taken a better look at it.
Then I'd pass the exam anyway, probably do really well because I'm awesome that way, but wonder for the rest of my life how much difference it made knowing those two or three questions ahead of time.
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This thread makes me thankful to have a family store where I at least have something to fall back on if my plans don't work out.
Also, Chino, it's your choice whether or not to tell her and I won't give you a moral speech or anything as it's you that has to live with it. And I also echo Kev's statement earlier. It's easier to say that you would tell the teacher, but another thing to actually do it