Official Parasomnia album discussion thread ***SPOILERS***

[ariich]

I've found that in general, people like to try and infer things about the band based on what they think of the album. This has always been a pet peeve of mine.

Examples from the Bingo card:

• "They sound inspired!"
• "They're clearly having fun!"
• "Everyone has a lot of energy!"
• "They clearly made the album they wanted to make!"

I understand the inclination to do this, and honestly I've probably even done it before, but I try to lean more on the band's actual recollections and statements when trying to judge these sorts of things. For example, as you alluded to, we know for a fact that the band have had full creative freedom to make whatever album they wanted to make since Scenes.

I'm sure there's an element of that, but it's not necessarily tied to how much someone likes it. For my part, I do sometimes get a feeling of a band's mindset, but I always treat that as speculative and actually it doesn't really correlate to how much I like an album. Like, there are definitely times where an album makes me feel like the band were having fun making it. But that doesn't mean I necessarily like it more or less. It might give off an energy that's catchy and I enjoy, or it might feel like they should have taken more time and care over it. 

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

"MAYBE LEAVE THE LIGHT ON TONIGHT" is my 2nd favorite final James line (next to YOU'LL NEVER KNOW THAT YOU'RE ALIVE).

I used to think that final line in IT was "You'll never know the joy in life" again, just pronounced weird. I still sing "You'll never know the jore in life" despite knowing better.

I do love the final line of TSMI as the closing lyrics as well. Side note, are the final lyrics of Dead Asleep super clumsy to anyone else?

"The law says you're innocent!  "
*METAL MUSIC* 

I think it should've been "innocent by the law but not the soul" or something, then the brutal outtro would probably work better for me. There are a few spots where I think "damn guys, I could've re-written a few lines to work a lot better if you ever feel like calling me up"

Same with the intro of Bend the Clock. "Worn down, wearing thin" is the same thing in different tenses. Why not "Wearing thin again" or "Worn down deep within" or something. It's the simple little things like that that really bug me long term.

[MirrorMask]

I do love the final line of TSMI as the closing lyrics as well. Side note, are the final lyrics of Dead Asleep super clumsy to anyone else?

"The law says you're innocent!  "
*METAL MUSIC* 

I think it should've been "innocent by the law but not the soul" or something, then the brutal outtro would probably work better for me. There are a few spots where I think "damn guys, I could've re-written a few lines to work a lot better if you ever feel like calling me up"

We've been through "BY THE GRACE OF GOD ABOVE EVERYONE SURVIVED, WHRAAAAAAAAARRRRR", we'll be fine.

[Polarbear]

I'm diggin' this a lot!

One listen in so far though. Bend the Clock will enter my regular rotation of songs, that I love from the band. The epic is excellent as well, and I like it more than either of the MM- era epics.

Looking forward to hearing these songs live next summer.

[MinistroRaven]

I realized later it was the same melody that made me smile during Orpheus.

What's Orpheus?

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

What's Orpheus?

It's Morpheus except he's also an orphan. Even scarier

[Phoenix87x]

Just did the first listen. In some ways, It feels like the very next album after black clouds and that's not something I was hungry for. There's parts I like alot and parts that are so so, but its really just another DT album for me at this point. I don't see myself having it in the main rotation, but I may throw it on from time to time.

[Pettor]

At the end of the day, I am enjoying parts of the record but as I said before, when I listen to this album I hear a decent DT effort that could have been composed with any line up at at any time in the last 20 years. I am open to being shown how it is not but if I think of the dozen or so most common complaints about Dream Theater music that existed, say, 2 years ago, Parasomnia addresses none of them except one very specific thing I am sure you could guess.

I think it's true that some people are reading too much into the change. At the same time, some of you seem to downplay it to an extent that doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe this is an absurd comparison, but did Queen change when Freddie died? Of course. You could argue that the songs they created afterward would have been possible in any era of Queen, but that's a baseless argument - there's no evidence either way. Roger could sing any Queen song, so musically, nothing was stopping them, but that alone doesn't mean the band remained the same. Or Gun's and Roses without Slash. In the same way, I feel like this argument undermines the idea that Dream Theater is more than just JR and JP. Downplaying the impact of this change to such the degree that Parasomnia could be made with either constellation is strange. I think that's just not how bands work. If JR would be replaced with some other other exceptionally talented keyboard player (with different background), would you make the same argument?

Portnoy and Mangini influenced the music in their own way to some degree or another. They're both top-tier musicians with their own ideas and creative input, which inevitably shaped the band's direction to some degree non of us will ever know. I most likely think more than you here. I like the Mangini era efforts but they are a bit different.

Also, Parasomnia sounds more like a follow-up to BC&SL than anything that came after. Not that the album sounds like BC&SL, but it has ideas and movement that are similar. I think a lot of people can hear that, right? Just like ADTOE didn't sound like the natural progression I would have expected if MP had stayed in the band. I have no concrete evidence, of course, but that's the nature of this debate 😀

[PixelDream]

I'm getting more familiar with the album as a whole, the mental picture is coming together and I have to say: it feels very complete to me. Bend The Clock is the icing on the cake. Such a welcome change of vibe but it still fits the album perfectly.

[Dellers]

I do kinda like that, but, like a few other parts on the album, there's aspects of Shadow Man where it stays in one place too long.

Definitely an upper tier album production wise. The low end is so massive.

I think this album is a huge step backwards mixing wise, despite being mixed by the same guy. The low end is generally just above half as loud as on View to my ears. I actually had to switch from neutral to a bass heavy EQ on my receiver to make this sound good, which I had no need to the last time. I don't do this very often, it's just for albums with very lacking bottom end. The bass does sound great in itself, it's just way too low most of the time.

The album also sounds a bit too bright most of the time, which View didn't do either. This is more like the last two MP albums before he left, which had the same issues to my ears, just a bit worse - too bright and with too little bass.

Edit: I haven't received the physical album yet, and have only listened to the stereo version. Will listen to the Atmos version next week, which may or may not be different in this regard.

[ReaPsTA]

I think this album is a huge step backwards mixing wise, despite being mixed by the same guy. The low end is generally just above half as loud as on View to my ears. I actually had to switch from neutral to a bass heavy EQ on my receiver to make this sound good, which I had no need to the last time. I don't do this very often, it's just for albums with very lacking bottom end. The bass does sound great in itself, it's just way too low most of the time.

The album also sounds a bit too bright most of the time, which View didn't do either. This is more like the last two MP albums before he left, which had the same issues to my ears, just a bit worse - too bright and with too little bass.

Interesting. Your post reads like what I would say if I swapped the albums.

I'm listening in headphones. Feels like that has to be relevant.

[MinistroRaven]

I think it's true that some people are reading too much into the change. At the same time, some of you seem to downplay it to an extent that doesn't make sense to me.

Here's how I see it: For some fans (myself included), the MM era just isn't what we expected or wanted from Dream Theater, mostly because it's hard to shake the nostalgia of not having MP behind the drums. Fans who joined during the Mangini era and love his albums with the band will probably always have something negative to say about the reunion albums (Parasomnia and whatever comes next). I've said it before and I'll say it again: this new album is a big deal for me. Dream Theater was the band I grew up with, and having Portnoy back means a lot—it's the guy who inspired me as a drummer. That's a huge part of why this album ranks so high for me. At the end of the day, I'm totally fine with people loving the Mangini era, and if anyone has something negative to say about the new album, that's on them. It won't change how I feel about it one bit.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think it's true that some people are reading too much into the change. At the same time, some of you seem to downplay it to an extent that doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe this is an absurd comparison, but did Queen change when Freddie died? Of course. You could argue that the songs they created afterward would have been possible in any era of Queen, but that's a baseless argument - there's no evidence either way. Roger could sing any Queen song, so musically, nothing was stopping them, but that alone doesn't mean the band remained the same. Or Gun's and Roses without Slash. In the same way, I feel like this argument undermines the idea that Dream Theater is more than just JR and JP. Downplaying the impact of this change to such the degree that Parasomnia could be made with either constellation is strange. I think that's just not how bands work. If JR would be replaced with some other other exceptionally talented keyboard player (with different background), would you make the same argument?

Portnoy and Mangini influenced the music in their own way to some degree or another. They're both top-tier musicians with their own ideas and creative input, which inevitably shaped the band's direction to some degree non of us will ever know. I most likely think more than you here. I like the Mangini era efforts but they are a bit different.

Also, Parasomnia sounds more like a follow-up to BC&SL than anything that came after. Not that the albums sounds like BC&SL, but it has ideas and movement that are similar. I think a lot of people can hear that, right? Just like ADTOE didn't sound like the natural progression I would have expected if MP had stayed in the band. I have no concrete evidence, of course, but that's the nature of this debate 😀

I'm not saying MP has no effect on the final product. It clearly does when there are specific call backs to the albums he was part of and he was part of the writing process.

I just mean that the record is squarely DT by the numbers and that harmonically, melodically, rhythmically, they didn't *need* MP back to do a single thing they did on this album because they've done it all before both with and without him.

[ReaPsTA]

I'm not saying MP has no effect on the final product. It clearly does when there are specific call backs to the albums he was part of and he was part of the writing process.

I just mean that the record is squarely DT by the numbers and that harmonically, melodically, rhythmically, they didn't *need* MP back to do a single thing they did on this album because they've done it all before both with and without him.

The song structures definitely feel more loose as well, if that makes sense.

[nobloodyname]

I'm sorry some people think it sounds terrible, and others find it uninspired.

I think it rocks. Sounds exactly like the album they wanted to make, in line with JP's big statement the other day.

The meaning here has been misrepresented in some of the replies. On reflection, perhaps I should have separated "it rocks" from the sentence following it.

JP spent almost two minutes explaining that they're not particularly interested in what fans want, and he followed it by saying they wrote the music they want to listen to. I'd say they succeeded, just as they did with The Astonishing, for example; not an album I enjoy but I respect it.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm sure there's an element of that, but it's not necessarily tied to how much someone likes it. For my part, I do sometimes get a feeling of a band's mindset, but I always treat that as speculative and actually it doesn't really correlate to how much I like an album. Like, there are definitely times where an album makes me feel like the band were having fun making it. But that doesn't mean I necessarily like it more or less. It might give off an energy that's catchy and I enjoy, or it might feel like they should have taken more time and care over it.

Rich!!! Nice to hear from you buddy. This is all completely fair. At the end of the day, we're all just chatting about music, and I understand we're not journalists here who need to be 100% accurate in everything we say. I just find it funny when people say things like "It doesn't sound like Dream Theater are having fun anymore!" and then I see an interview with Petrucci saying the band had a ton of fun. That's not relevant to Parasomnia but just an example from prior records.

[Pettor]

The song structures definitely feel more loose as well, if that makes sense.

This! I struggle to find the musical terms to describe it, but it's been my biggest personal gripe. Honestly, before every Mangini-era album (except for ADTOE, of course), I hoped this would change — but usually never did. Yet, for some reason, it's not present on Parasomnia. Not a game-changer, but def something I am hearing.

[ariich]

Rich!!! Nice to hear from you buddy. This is all completely fair. At the end of the day, we're all just chatting about music, and I understand we're not journalists here who need to be 100% accurate in everything we say. I just find it funny when people say things like "It doesn't sound like Dream Theater are having fun anymore!" and then I see an interview with Petrucci saying the band had a ton of fun. That's not relevant to Parasomnia but just an example from prior records.

You too man! I'm reasonably consistently active in the general music board and occasionally general discussion, but only dip into the DT board from time to time (other than when I need to do something as a mod anyway).  

And yeah that's true. People can have fun making incredibly gloomy music, even. 

[hefdaddy42]

Is it my favorite mix/sound of any of their albums?  No.

Is there anything wrong with it? Also, no.  Not that I can tell.  Not enough to impact my experience of the album.

[Max Kuehnau]

And yeah that's true. People can have fun making incredibly gloomy music, even.

yeah, I know Peter Gabriel does

[Pettor]

I think everything is clear and audible. The dynamics are a big lacking, which was kind of true for AVFTTOTW as well. Personally I like the mix.

Has anyone tried the HDtrack version? That is usually a different master.

[ReaPsTA]

Is it my favorite mix/sound of any of their albums?  No.

Is there anything wrong with it? Also, no.  Not that I can tell.  Not enough to impact my experience of the album.

For Dream Theater to go three albums in a row where there's not some kind of glaring, impossible to ignore issue with the sound is actually kind of amazing.

They should keep doing whatever they need to do to keep Jimmy T around.

[Stadler]

But is there any album, at least from the moment they do things on their own and the record company doesn't interfere, that doesn't sound exactly like the album they wanted to make?

I honestly don't understand why people started harping on about this so much lately. From what we know, Astonishing was an album made the way they wanted to make it at the time. But that didn't stop the album from being labeled as trash, as ridiculous, as a waste of time, and from being suggested that it shouldn't even be a DT album (it should be a JP and JR album). The work was torn apart and the band was roundly ridiculed.

Why are we now reminded all the time that we should respect "what the band wants to do, the kind of album they want to deliver". Wasn't that true before?

What's the difference now? Well, I have a hypothesis...

Honest question, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That was always true.  If it's being applied now, it doesn't mean that it's wrong to do it now, it means it SHOULD have been done before.

The fact remains, it's not really something we can know, unless we're told (and even then, since there is an element of marketing to all the comments from the band at this stage of the process). 

[Adami]

So I've listened to the album minus the epic since I didn't have time before getting to work.

I'll comment later, but I had an odd technical question.

MP has historically had his drums mixed from drummer perspective. (Ride panned to the right, hi hat to the left, etc). I have no idea how MM did it since he played ambidextrously and I don't care enough to really look into it. I heard the first minute or two of Shadow Man and it sounded like it was mixed from audience perspective, which took me by surprise. So I just went back to see the vide of Night Terror and that's mixed from drummer perspective.

I wonder what happened? If it's the small side of the kit that he's playing differently, causing the different panning? Just threw me off.

[hefdaddy42]

They should keep doing whatever they need to do to keep Jimmy T around.

Agreed

[Max Kuehnau]

unlikely for that not to happen I'd guess

[ReaPsTA]

So I've listened to the album minus the epic since I didn't have time before getting to work.

I'll comment later, but I had an odd technical question.

MP has historically had his drums mixed from drummer perspective. (Ride panned to the right, hi hat to the left, etc). I have no idea how MM did it since he played ambidextrously and I don't care enough to really look into it. I heard the first minute or two of Shadow Man and it sounded like it was mixed from audience perspective, which took me by surprise. So I just went back to see the vide of Night Terror and that's mixed from drummer perspective.

I wonder what happened? If it's the small side of the kit that he's playing differently, causing the different panning? Just threw me off.

This is tough to think about/identify with MP because the "big kit" gives you two hi-hat options.

[Adami]

This is tough to think about/identify with MP because the "big kit" gives you two hi-hat options.

Indeed. It was the ride that set off my spidey sense. Hearing his ride panned to the left was jarring.

[jayvee3]

I'm not saying MP has no effect on the final product. It clearly does when there are specific call backs to the albums he was part of and he was part of the writing process.

I just mean that the record is squarely DT by the numbers and that harmonically, melodically, rhythmically, they didn't *need* MP back to do a single thing they did on this album because they've done it all before both with and without him.

Yeah, I like the way you put this. I think that's my main issue - I'm having fun with the album and enjoy the tracks enough, but I think I always thought once MP was back, they'd be absolutely getting after it and be looking to put out something truly special and inspired - not an album that granted - is enjoyable, but pretty much just a continuation of their last few years where really, anyone could be on drums. This is in stark contrast to something like the issues that plagued from the FII days, and the comeback album in Scenes. I will never forget the day I came back with that CD and heard it for the first time - you just knew there was something magical...

I'm really not trying to be negative - again, I enjoy the album for what it is and fun is fine, but I'm not quite feeling the magic. I think there is definitely some evidence of some parts being a callback to previous stuff, I'm just not sure it works fully, and almost comes across as a bit too obvious.

[Zydar]

Indeed. It was the ride that set off my spidey sense. Hearing his ride panned to the left was jarring.

Flip the headphones 

[RAIN]

The mix is absolutely terrible. Granted I'm only listening on Spotify but it sounds like a mess. Honestly this morning it sounds like a LimeWire download, and it's a bloody shame.

Although I don't think it's terrible, I was shocked that it sounded more muddy than expected.  Listen to Judas Priest's  Invincible Shield for what a great mix sounds like.  Production is not as good at AVFTTOTW IMHO.  It may grow on me, but this is my first impression.

[ReaPsTA]

Indeed. It was the ride that set off my spidey sense. Hearing his ride panned to the left was jarring.

What would make sense there is that being a "small kit" section since on that half the ride is off to the left.

EDIT: And just scanning through the first ~half, I only hear left-panned hi-hat, which would also make sense.

[Zydar]

Well, as far as I know Spotify streams in lossy (mp3 quality) so definitely don't judge it on that alone.

I haven't used Spotify for a couple of years now, maybe they've finally upped their game and gone to lossless.

[Pettor]

But is there any album, at least from the moment they do things on their own and the record company doesn't interfere, that doesn't sound exactly like the album they wanted to make?

I honestly don't understand why people started harping on about this so much lately. From what we know, Astonishing was an album made the way they wanted to make it at the time. But that didn't stop the album from being labeled as trash, as ridiculous, as a waste of time, and from being suggested that it shouldn't even be a DT album (it should be a JP and JR album). The work was torn apart and the band was roundly ridiculed.

Why are we now reminded all the time that we should respect "what the band wants to do, the kind of album they want to deliver". Wasn't that true before?

What's the difference now? Well, I have a hypothesis...

Because "people" are just a vague collection of comments from the internet. It's inconsistent because it can't be 😁

I overall more tired of all the comments somehow choosing to believe this - or any other album - were in anyway a half-assed effort from the band. As fans we must know that has never been the case no matter if it's Parasomnia, DT12, TA or SC. I sadly don't like TA but in no way did it seem to lack inspiration from the band.

Also sometimes I think it's the wording. "Lack inspiration", "descent effort" etc. are just personal opinions that gets projected onto the band in a strange way. It sounds like they are explaining what the band did or didn't do in a way. Just a personal note 😀

[cramx3]

Bend the fucking clock

that is all