Why don’t people like BMUBMD?

[hefdaddy42]

I'm sure the writing would've been fine without DC.

"You Or Me" is the writing without DC.

Not great.  But the problem with it isn't "a lack of Desmond Child".

I don't remember saying anything about a problem.

True, which I guess means that you must like the song, for some reason. 

Of course, you also said "I'm sure the writing would've been fine without DC" as if we don't actually know what it would have been without him.  Which we do.

[Dublagent66]

Oh no, that's not it at all.  I don't dislike YOM and YNM is better by some degree, but we all know that both aren't that great.  I never meant to imply otherwise.  Maybe I should've used the word "could've".  If Kevin Shirley wanted the song re-written, he could've asked the band to do it.  I think they were perfectly capable of refining the original composition without the help of DC.  It could've been a better song.  The outcome of that particular scenario is something we'll never know.  But, as it turned out, I like YNM better and I have no problem with it.

[DTA]

Oh no, that's not it at all.  I don't dislike YOM and YNM is better by some degree, but we all know that both aren't that great.  I never meant to imply otherwise.  Maybe I should've used the word "could've".  If Kevin Shirley wanted the song re-written, he could've asked the band to do it.  I think they were perfectly capable of refining the original composition without the help of DC.  It could've been a better song.  The outcome of that particular scenario is something we'll never know.  But, as it turned out, I like YNM better and I have no problem with it.

I consider YNM to be a great song. It's got a catchy chorus, a simple but effective main riff, tons of groove in the verses, a unique bridge, and it's over in under 5 minutes. What more does it need? I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

[KidInTheDark666]

I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

Those songs are fantastic.

[Volante99]

Oh no, that's not it at all.  I don't dislike YOM and YNM is better by some degree, but we all know that both aren't that great.  I never meant to imply otherwise.  Maybe I should've used the word "could've".  If Kevin Shirley wanted the song re-written, he could've asked the band to do it.  I think they were perfectly capable of refining the original composition without the help of DC.  It could've been a better song.  The outcome of that particular scenario is something we'll never know.  But, as it turned out, I like YNM better and I have no problem with it.

I consider YNM to be a great song. It's got a catchy chorus, a simple but effective main riff, tons of groove in the verses, a unique bridge, and it's over in under 5 minutes. What more does it need? I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

This is the great thing about Dream Theater. One fan's trash is another fan's treasure.

Seems like people are pretty split on You Not Me or You Or Me.

[Lupton]

Oh no, that's not it at all.  I don't dislike YOM and YNM is better by some degree, but we all know that both aren't that great.  I never meant to imply otherwise.  Maybe I should've used the word "could've".  If Kevin Shirley wanted the song re-written, he could've asked the band to do it.  I think they were perfectly capable of refining the original composition without the help of DC.  It could've been a better song.  The outcome of that particular scenario is something we'll never know.  But, as it turned out, I like YNM better and I have no problem with it.

I consider YNM to be a great song. It's got a catchy chorus, a simple but effective main riff, tons of groove in the verses, a unique bridge, and it's over in under 5 minutes. What more does it need? I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

This is the great thing about Dream Theater. One fan's trash is another fan's treasure.

Seems like people are pretty split on You Not Me or You Or Me.

Truth. Instead of trying to convince people that their opinions should be different, or that my opinion is the "correct" one, I find it more interesting simply to just to find out what people think and maybe learn something in the process.

As far as You Not Me goes I can't really motivate myself to care one way or another. I don't think it's a "bad" song, but it doesn't do anything for me either...so I never listen to it. But then I find most of FII is that way. I can't think of a single tune on that record that I really want to listen to. You'd probably be surprised to know that I actually think "Anna Lee" is one of the stronger songs. It's a very interesting arrangement with lots of lovely chord changes and accompanying melody lines. It's almost like DT doing a Spock's Beard homage in spots. That "bridge" sounds like it's straight from the Neal Morse playbook. It's a nice, sweet little tune that has grown on me over the years. I can't really say that about anything else from that album. 

[lovethedrake]

I think YNM is an awful song, forsaken is ok, ROP is not very good but at least it's weird, and constant motion is textbook "boring modern DT".

Of course those are all just my opinions.

If you're looking for progressive metal none of those songs are going to help you find it.   

YNM sounds like it could be on one of Alice Cooper's terrible 90's albums, and He's a top 10 artist for me.

The fact that Trial of Tears and YNM are on the same album is pretty funny.

Anyways, just my two cents.  I already stated my opinion BMUBMD which is not a good one.

Don't mistake this as Dream Theater bashing as I have two #1 favorite bands and they are Dream Theater and The Kinks.  Yes I know thats a strange top 2.

[dparrott]

I like the first three songs on that album, the rest fall flat with me.

[Volante99]

I think YNM is an awful song, forsaken is ok, ROP is not very good but at least it's weird, and constant motion is textbook "boring modern DT".

Of course those are all just my opinions.

If you're looking for progressive metal none of those songs are going to help you find it.   

YNM sounds like it could be on one of Alice Cooper's terrible 90's albums

Agree with everything here. It sounds like a lot of the bad 90s Metal that came from hair bands desperate to remain relevant (the chorus at least).

There are only a handful of DT songs I'd put in the awful category. YNM is one. Along for the Ride is another but I know it has its fans as well. Build Me Up Break Me Down is not good, but I wouldn't go as far to say it's awful either.

[DoctorAction]

You'd probably be surprised to know that I actually think "Anna Lee" is one of the stronger songs.

Totally. Always loved it. The key changes, arrangements, James - very touching.

BMUBMD has a very catchy chorus. I don't like the screams and synth hits. But i really like the main chorus. The lyrics fit well too.

ROP is DT at their most bar-band pointless to me. "Hey, let's do a song with that Eastern scale everyone does from time to time". Not what i want from DT at all. But I can't stand the SC and BCASL period as a whole so...

And, you know what, i really like You Not Me. Very well written. Another go-to track from FII for me.

I think DT mainly work for me as a heavy rock band with prog and all the other bits added on. The affecting song-writing is what i love. I love the playful bits of heavier metal too (i count things like TGP, R137, PBD as that). Whenever they veer towards "tough" metal styles with a straight face it sounds unnatural to me and turns me off. (Eg TOT, SC, BCASL)

[Evai]

My problem was that the Kesha song Tik Tok was popular at that time, with a bridge that goes

'You build me up, you break me down
My heart, it pounds, yeah, you got me'

So it seemed to me that DT was turning to the top 40 charts for inspiration

[lovethedrake]

Love Anna Lee, one of their best ballads.  It's like Dream Theater does Elton John.

[jammindude]

Love Anna Lee, one of their best ballads.  It's like Dream Theater does Elton John.

When DS was there, it was almost like Elton John was a member. 

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

IMO they are all pretty bad.

[Dublagent66]

I don't know how people dislike this song but love garbage like Constant Motion or A Rite Of Passage. A vast improvement over YOM also.

IMO they are all pretty bad.

That's ok Hef.  We forgive you, cause you're such a cool guy. 

[hefdaddy42]

Thank you so much.