Pale Blue Dot - Appreciation & Discussion Thread

[Architeuthis]

but it is definitely a song that leaves you with a bit of musical blue balls.

That would be pale blue balls to you! 

[erwinrafael]

I just think that we've heard that "epic outro" solo from JP a million times. 8V, ITPOE, IT...

There's just no climax. They should've called it Pale Blue Balls.

The outro for PBD works for the song. It does give one a feeling of floating in the vastness of space, which is why I think the approach i different compared to 8VM.

But as the climax to close the album, that is where it fell short.

It's terrible. Absolute garbage. None of the transitions make sense, at all. None of it flows. It all feels very forced. Technical for technical sake, and shitty songwriting. One of the worst songs they've ever released. It's embarrasing.

How people could say such disrespect to artists who work hard on their craft is the one that is embarrassing. Dislike it all you want, but don't expect anybody to respect your opinions if what comes out of your mouth is garbage,

[Architeuthis]

I love the technical meets darkness meets beauty in this song!  I like to crank it very loud for this track and might end up blowing up my speakers..TOTALLY worth it!!! 

[DragonAttack]

Its likely since 8vm (might even be 6DOIT) we've been given 20-min epics as the last on the albums. This is the first album since Scenes where we haven't had an album closer over 10 min.

It's almost a shock to us DT fans...

'Beneath The Surface' wants to have a word with you

I think PBD's problem as an album closer is that AWE exists, otherwise there might not be quite the criticism in some ways.

[Lax]

I think PBD's problem as an album closer is that AWE exists, otherwise there might not be quite the criticism in some ways.

I agree partly on this one.

On the other hand, I personnally usually don't care if the last song of an album is a closer or not, except on concept albums like SFAM or SDOIT.

PBD reminds me of TDOE in a grim and stressed version, with singing, so I love it.

But I'm still working on my rearranged track list order, I would have put PBD first and AWE last, but maybe that would have been taking a risk ?
It's not because singles were released that they needed to be first !
Plus the opener has angel+clean guitar arpeggio etc...That's a déjà vu

[ThatOneGuy2112]

That is one of my criticisms of the new album in general: speaking in terms of a cohesive album experience, it doesn't really have the best and most logical flow from track to track to track. Most notable example of this being PBD serving as a weaker album closer than AWE would have been.

[erwinrafael]

That being said, after experimenting with rearranging the tracks, AWE's outro makes it a good closer, but it's intro is preventing it from having an album closer feel. Too...frantic?

[lovethedrake]

I actually love the PBD/viper king close of the album.   Reminds me of game of thrones/Silicon Valley.

PBD leaves you feeling intense and eerie... and then viper king saves the day and leaves you feeling good and happy.

I know vk is not on the album, but I'll probably always treat it as if it were.

[MirrorMask]

I actually love the PBD/viper king close of the album.   Reminds me of game of thrones/Silicon Valley.

PBD leaves you feeling intense and eerie... and then viper king saves the day and leaves you feeling good and happy.

The contrast you described and mention of Game of Thrones made me remind of the end of the third episode (or was it the second?) of the third season, when, spoiler, Jaimie Lannister gets his hand chopped off, the screen fades to black and as credits song starts a punk version of The Bear and the Maiden Fair. Such a brilliant WTF moment 

[jayvee3]

Big fan of PBD. Great song, very DOE with vocals and some great vocals and crunching bass/drum sections. I mentioned somewhere previously, but I think all it needed to wrap up a touch, was just a short reoccurrence of the "space" samples that began the song. Would've just given it that slightly more grandiose space related adventure and tied everything together. But that's only my thought, other than that, I love it and can't fault it 

[CDrice]

It's one of my favorite of the album. While I guess most people would look at the musicianship in this song with all the crazy things going on especially during the instrumental section, I'd like to applaud James performance on this song. I think it's one of the song where he sounds the best (probably because he mostly stay in a safe range) and his delivery is awesome.

[the_silent_man]

Completely agree with people saying musical blue balls. I love the song, but it's been bugging me that somethings missing... Today relistening, I came to the conclusion it lacks a proper ending.
It's like: crazy instrumental section > boom straight back into chorus > boom outro solo already

[TAC]

Completely agree with people saying musical blue balls. I love the song, but it's been bugging me that somethings missing... Today relistening, I came to the conclusion it lacks a proper ending.
It's like: crazy instrumental section > boom straight back into chorus > boom outro solo already

Right, and it feels like it's the same old solo again.

[rumborak]

That is one of my criticisms of the new album in general: speaking in terms of a cohesive album experience, it doesn't really have the best and most logical flow from track to track to track. Most notable example of this being PBD serving as a weaker album closer than AWE would have been.

Yeah, I felt the same about the ordering. Because (for me) Out of Reach, PBD and Viper King are in the lower half of my ranking, I feel the album starts to wind down once AWE is done.

[Architeuthis]

As much as I like AWE,  I'll take PBD, BW, S2N, and FITL over it.  This does not diminish how good of a song AWE is, it just goes to show how good this album really is.

To me, PBD is one of the most unique songs DT has ever written. It captures the essence of the whole chaotic yet organised outer space feel, and the darkness of the song drives the point home of who will save us from ourselves.  The riffing just slays on every instrument and JP's outro solo is brilliant in the way it feels like we're just a spec of dust drifting in this huge universe.   

[RAIN]

That is one of my criticisms of the new album in general: speaking in terms of a cohesive album experience, it doesn't really have the best and most logical flow from track to track to track. Most notable example of this being PBD serving as a weaker album closer than AWE would have been.

Yeah, I felt the same about the ordering. Because (for me) Out of Reach, PBD and Viper King are in the lower half of my ranking, I feel the album starts to wind down once AWE is done.

I'm in agreement with you both, hence why I posted in the main DOT thread my reconfigured track list, and this makes it much better to my preferences.

I really found that changing the track order (I'm an old schooled album order based listener) a small bit helped me tremendously with the pacing.  Thank goodness for having that ability in the last 15 years.  So this is how I listen to the album.  It just works better for me.  Get rid of Out of Reach, and put the 2 small epics together.  The outro for At Wits End is much much better placed as an album closer.

1   "Untethered Angel"
2   "Paralyzed"
3   "Fall into the Light"
4   "Barstool Warrior"
5   "Room 137"
6   "S2N"
7   "Viper King"
8   "Pale Blue Dot"
9   "At Wit's End"

[bosk1]

I really like the album order as is.  And similarly coming from an age where we listened to entire albums, I very rarely mess around with an album's running order, and very rarely delete songs (SC being the exception in the DT catalog for me).  But it's nice to have that option so easily available if an album's running order just doesn't do it for you and you end up liking the album more by rearranging it. 

For me, I really prefer having the emotion of AWE earlier in the album, having PBD end the album as the closer, and then having the "bonus"/"post-credits scene" of Viper King.  But I get why you and others would prefer to have AWE end it.  If you like that better, then more power to you. 

But where I might be included to challenge you to meet me by the bike racks after school is the criminal deletion of Out of Reach.  Come on, man! 

[Logain Ablar]

@6:01, every time I hear MM hit the "bell" on the ride cymbal, it makes me smile. 

[erwinrafael]

I just listened to the Vector album by Haken and I thought PBD would be at home woth this record. Like, PBD is like Haken with more talented musicians.

[Fritzinger]

I just listened to the Vector album by Haken and I thought PBD would be at home woth this record. Like, PBD is like Haken with more talented musicians.

I read your comment and thought, well, good point. But then I read you last sentence. Why the hell would you think Haken are not as "talented" as DT? Because you don't like their music? And what do you mean by talented anyway? Technically more advanced? Melodically more your type?

[SeRoX]

It lacks some long guitar solo and proper ending. It feels so uncompleted. Other than that it was a grower. At first I wasn't into it so much but now it's one of my favourite of DoT.

[erwinrafael]

I just listened to the Vector album by Haken and I thought PBD would be at home woth this record. Like, PBD is like Haken with more talented musicians.

I read your comment and thought, well, good point. But then I read you last sentence. Why the hell would you think Haken are not as "talented" as DT? Because you don't like their music? And what do you mean by talented anyway? Technically more advanced? Melodically more your type?

Uhm...technically more advanced? I mean, I don't think anybody can claim that one-on-one, an individual Haken instrumentalist is more technically advanced than a DT counterpart.

[KevShmev]

I just listened to the Vector album by Haken and I thought PBD would be at home woth this record. Like, PBD is like Haken with more talented musicians.

I read your comment and thought, well, good point. But then I read you last sentence. Why the hell would you think Haken are not as "talented" as DT? Because you don't like their music? And what do you mean by talented anyway? Technically more advanced? Melodically more your type?

Uhm...technically more advanced? I mean, I don't think anybody can claim that one-on-one, an individual Haken instrumentalist is more technically advanced than a DT counterpart.

Okay, but "more technically advanced" does not automatically mean "more talented." 

And I say that as someone who really likes Haken (despite Vector being pretty underwhelming), but is a much bigger fan of Dream Theater.

[erwinrafael]

So John Pettruci is not more talented than Griffiths and Henshall, JR is not more talented than Tejeida, JLB is not more talented than Jennings, and Mangini is not more talented than Hearne? For my personal POV, only Green can challenge DT member Myung for now.

I seriously want to know, is using more or less talented not acceptable now, politically incorrect?

[Fritzinger]

I just wanted to know what you mean by that. And I don't understand your explanation at all 

I agree with Kev though, technically advanced does not mean more talented. In my opinion, being technically advanced on an instrument is 15% talent and 85% hard work.

Plus, have you heard what is going on rhythmically on Haken's newer songs? And they pull that off live perfectly. Those guys are absolutely insane.

[Max Kuehnau]

PBD is one of my favourites on the album (great vocal lines, melodies and rhythms. Oh and great instrumental section, lovely wanks.) Could have been more notes in some places, but anyway, it's nice as it is.

[darkshade]

Definitely underwhelmed, I'm close to saying it's not a well put together tune. Barstool Warrior does the prog right.

[millahh]

So John Pettruci is not more talented than Griffiths and Henshall, JR is not more talented than Tejeida, JLB is not more talented than Jennings, and Mangini is not more talented than Hearne? For my personal POV, only Green can challenge DT member Myung for now.

I seriously want to know, is using more or less talented not acceptable now, politically incorrect?

Oh goody, more "my dad can beat up your dad"-style swagger about "who is more talented".  This isn't orchestra, there isn't an audition & subsequent seating.  There's no 1st chair.  Everybody is plenty talented to pull off the material they are writing, and everybody is doing something interesting.

"Politically correct"??  No, I suspect people just think the vicarious penis-measuring based on perceived "talent" of their preferred musicians is pointless and tiresome.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Then we get that blistering riff in 19/16...

It seems to me that Mike had already shared that intro, back in July of last year, as part of the treasure hunt:

https://twitter.com/FreddyJacobi/status/1022593643004264448

https://www.facebook.com/TheDreamTheaterWorld/videos/2105171919558138

Isn't the intro to "Pale Blue Dot" the 19/16 pattern Mike plays last on that video?

[bill1971]

Could possibly be my favorite DT song of the moment of their entire catalog. That of course may change but definitely for the moment.

[Dublagent66]

I like this song, but I can't say I love it.  I agree with the sentiment that it feels a bit undercooked, almost like it is missing a verse or something.  As is, like I said, I like it, but it is definitely a song that leaves you with a bit of musical blue balls.

I guess I feel sort of the same way.  Not sure what it is exactly about this song.  Nothing in it really seems to get stuck in my head like the other songs.  Just not as memorable I suppose.  Not a bad song though. 

[Architeuthis]

To me it's an instant DT classic that needs to be played loud!   

[Chino]

I would have really like this song to have included some sort of sample from Carl. Something like all the music pausing and then hearing Carl say something like "suspended in a sunbeam" or "the momentary masters, of a fraction, of a dot" right before an onslaught of noise. Something along the lines of "Don't cross the crooked step" in Honor Thy Father. 

[AVFTTOTW]

It's probably been pointed out before but I thought I'd say that there are definite elements of Octavarium, A Nightmare To Remember and the Count Of Tuscany in Pale Blue Dot to my estimation (down to the guitar solo at the end).

Pale Blue Dot by far does not sound derivative though, even though it does liberally borrow certain elements and even progressions. Pale Blue Dot still remains a unique stand-out track in their catalogue (like At Wits End).

[RAIN]

Absolute favourite in D/T.