Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[TAC]

The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.

I don't know if I totally agree. Sure TDEN and CM are heavy, but I feel like SC is way underrated in terms of its variety.

After the peak of Score, I feel like DT went into the studio for SC and just winged it. It's a fun album, and they clearly had no blueprint for it.

SC isn't any more metal than SFAM or Awake.

[darkshade]

The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.

I don't know if I totally agree. Sure TDEN and CM are heavy, but I feel like SC is way underrated in terms of its variety.

After the peak of Score, I feel like DT went into the studio for SC and just winged it. It's a fun album, and they clearly had no blueprint for it.

SC isn't any more metal than SFAM or Awake.

SC is way more metal than SFAM and Awake. MP was literally calling for balls and chunk for the entire thing.
I wouldn't even call almost half of Awake metal, is 6:00 metal? Most of Innocence Faded? and much of Scenes isn't metal either (proggy? Yes. heavy? yes)
SC doesn't have songs like The Silent Man, LSOAD, Through Her Eyes, TSCO, etc...

I don't dislike SC, but to me, the flow of the album drops off significantly after TDEN and the album never recovers.

[TAC]

The Mirror and Lie are pretty damn heavy. As is 6:00 and Voices. Heck, even Scarred is quite heavy.

Other than TDEN and CM, what is so heavy about SC?


I'd actually call Awake heavier than SC.


And as far as Scenes, Fatal Tragedy is very heavy. Strange Deja Vu and Beyond This Life are also quite heavy.

If you want to talk about song quality, and rag on SC, that's fair, but classifying it as DT going heavy is really a misclassification.

[KevShmev]

Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem?  That is quite a take.

[darkshade]

The Mirror and Lie are pretty damn heavy. As is 6:00 and Voices. Heck, even Scarred is quite heavy.

Other than TDEN and CM, what is so heavy about SC?


I'd actually call Awake heavier than SC.


And as far as Scenes, Fatal Tragedy is very heavy. Strange Deja Vu and Beyond This Life are also quite heavy.

If you want to talk about song quality, and rag on SC, that's fair, but classifying it as DT going heavy is really a misclassification.

I never claimed there were not heavy songs on any DT albums. DoT to me doesn't have any of the softer songs or moments that Awake and Scenes have. All DT albums have their heavy moments.

Ranking DT albums for their overall heaviness or how metal the overall album is, would be a different ranking for me to what my general DT top14-15 albums would be. IMO the best DT is when they fuse metal equally with other styles or vastly different moods throughout the album. The exception for me is Train of Thought.

Train of Thought is just DT kicking everyone's ass non stop for well over an hour, with a 2 minute break in the middle for those who haven't perished yet. It comes off as the most genuine of their heaviest albums.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem?  That is quite a take.

I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts  The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.

[Lax]

Honestly, I can remember the simulisten of ToT on MIRC with mike portnoy and loads of comments were like "oh the metallica section" "oh the megadeth section" "DT abused its inspiration corner" and MP went a little crazy about it

BTW I was the first one disappointed how heavy it was sounding, rather than proggy like SDOIT and before...But you can't write the same thing over and over I guess !
Or you do ADTOE and people say it's I&W remaster with no inspiration...
It's pretty intense in the community haha.

Honestly, DOT was a grower for me, but as I wrote, barstool and AWE are wonderful, from composition to writing and voice melodies, plus emotion. Pure prog.

Songs like paralysed or invisible monster, even with great guitar solos, feel like a filler song I will not listen again.

My only regrets about DOT are 1) song order, I would have made it totally differently 2) Where the fock is the other half of pale blue dot ? it was nearly dance of eternity level

[TM172003]

(someone can correct me if I am wrong here about the time sig being new for the band).

There's a part of Home in 19/16 I think.

[Max Kuehnau]

(someone can correct me if I am wrong here about the time sig being new for the band).

There's a part of Home in 19/16 I think.

That's true.

[KevShmev]

Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem?  That is quite a take.

I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts  The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.

Well, most of his DT posts seem like he adopted the "old DT great, new DT not-so-great" stance, and then it is forming his opinions to reinforce that belief.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but his are often just bizarre.

[jayvee3]

BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.

While those two are indeed phenomenal tracks, sone others are also excellent and far better than "stock DT tunes". S2N is a ripping song - I love the drum work, the experimentation and sense of fun in that tune. I think Out of Reach is one of the best ballads they have ever done, Pale Blue Dot rocks and Fall into the Light is a terrific track with heaviness, melody and emotion. I actually really enjoy Paralyzed too. It's a simple metal song executed well. Really solid album and still gets regular play from me...

S2N is a promising track, but I find the chorus is really stock, typical-sounding Mangini-era chorus, and imo doesn't fit the feel of the rest of the song (and the song has a completely unnecessary outro that is all too similar to The Dark Eternal Night's outro (which DID fit the song)

I feel almost the polar opposite. I love the chorus, it's concise, fits everything well, love the drum work and think it's a super outro which ends in a great crescendo which works way better the The Dark Eternal Night, because it doesn't carry on for an eon...

As for the DoT songs sounding derivative, I can't think of any other songs S2N sounds like. Sure if you wanna look for it you could mention the outro here or a riff there, but to me, it sounds fresh, fun and I love it, so fortunately for me, I'll just carry on and keep listening to it...

[darkshade]

Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem?  That is quite a take.

I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts  The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.

Well, most of his DT posts seem like he adopted the "old DT great, new DT not-so-great" stance, and then it is forming his opinions to reinforce that belief.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but his are often just bizarre.

It's not "old DT great, new DT not so great" it's that I find the recent output to be repetitive and derivative of itself. The Mangini albums all have a similar thread throughout them. I can barely tell one album apart from another. Despite that, I still find diamonds in the rough throughout the last 4 albums. Octavarium may have had its influences on its sleeves for a few songs, but it was still something different for the band overall, and it wasn't THAT derivative of other bands, outside of 3 songs (TW, IWBY, and NE) and those are probably the least best songs on the album, too.

[jayvee3]

What can I say? It doesn't sound derivative on AWE. MAYBE a tiny bit of ITPOE in the beginning.. but I find it all works.

The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.

Not sure how Octavarium's songs are role players, other than the title track at the end. TROAE works well as an opener, with its build-up intro and all. The other songs follow the concept of changing keys each song.

Meh. Meta album, key changes etc, etc. At the end of the day, all of that leaves us with the very pedestrian Root of all evil, the Answer lies within, These Walls, I Walk beside you and a couple of very Muse sounding tracks, with the lyrics to Never Enough wanting to make me uppercut myself. Hard.

Sure, there's a couple of nice sounds amongst them, but they are absolutely role players. Regardless of the key they are played in, to me, they just have far better sounding songs from the MM era than any of these. For all the stick The Astonishing cops, I could pick 6 tracks from that album that I would take any day over the first 6 tracks from 8V. The title track is nice, I genuinely like it, but a bit overrated in my book. I would go nowhere near calling it the bands greatest musical achievement. Ah well, it is what it is...

[darkshade]

Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.

[jayvee3]

Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.

The Astonishing would like a word with you...

[bosk1]

BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.

what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?

Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.

As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style.  Get over it."

[LKap13]

Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.

The Astonishing would like a word with you...

Touche!

[darkshade]

BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.

what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?

Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.

As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style.  Get over it."

Not when they're repeating themselves album to album since 2011. Their signature style left when MP left, as his drumming was half their sound.
Now they're just recreating IaW's melodicism with SC's balls and chunk with varying results, with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance. I find Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End to be superior pieces of music in the modern era, precisely because it's the band doing what it does best, crafting the best song they can with the musical knowledge they have, with little regard for what genre they're playing in, or what previous DT album they're trying to emulate or romanticize.

and The Astonishing might be something different for the band conceptually, but the execution was not successful to me, it was far too bloated, and musically isn't far off from the albums surrounding it. TA is incredibly safe musically. If they wanted to do something outside the box, they could have written a song within the NOMACs atmosphere, for example, maybe added some electronic type sounds like they teased on ADTOE.

[hunnus2000]

BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.

what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?

Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.

As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style.  Get over it."

Not when they're repeating themselves album to album since 2011. Their signature style left when MP left, as his drumming was half their sound.
Now they're just recreating IaW's melodicism with SC's balls and chunk with varying results, with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance. I find Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End to be superior pieces of music in the modern era, precisely because it's the band doing what it does best, crafting the best song they can with the musical knowledge they have, with little regard for what genre they're playing in, or what previous DT album they're trying to emulate or romanticize.

and The Astonishing might be something different for the band conceptually, but the execution was not successful to me, it was far too bloated, and musically isn't far off from the albums surrounding it. TA is incredibly safe musically. If they wanted to do something outside the box, they could have written a song within the NOMACs atmosphere, for example, maybe added some electronic type sounds like they teased on ADTOE.

I'll tell you what, you go write a 90 second sound clip of what you would consider "outside the box", post it to YouTube and I will give it a listen and get back to you on whether you hit the mark or not.

[bosk1]

...with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance.

Aside from being factually incorrect, that is incredibly insulting.  Given your repeat warnings for bashing band members, consider this your final.

[Kram]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

[Kram]

Songs like paralysed or invisible monster, even with great guitar solos, feel like a filler song I will not listen again.

I agree with your take that songs like Paralyzed and IM are forgettable.

[LKap13]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

Something tells me that it really will - based on the snippets

[King Postwhore]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made.  Just a few really.  Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.

[LKap13]

Can you think of any bands that were able to maintain a high level 30 years in? I can only think of classical composers, many of whom produced their greatest works at the end of their careers. In pop/rock it almost NEVER happens... For whatever reason (likely something to do with the commercial aspect of the music industry)

[Kram]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made.  Just a few really.  Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.

Oh, I totally agree.  I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him.  Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...

[King Postwhore]

Totally get that. hat's what happens when you get old.  Right?!   I'm 53.  Always reminiscing.

[TAC]

Always reminiscing.

Is this the Little River Band Form?
LRBF?

[Kram]

Totally get that. hat's what happens when you get old.  Right?!   I'm 53.  Always reminiscing.

Yep, same here - 52 in November lol

[King Postwhore]

Always reminiscing.

Is this the Little River Band Form?
LRBF?

Ear worm.  LOL

[hunnus2000]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made.  Just a few really.  Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.

Oh, I totally agree.  I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him.  Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...

This board reminds me of the Rush message board. For years fans yearned for the years of 2112 perpetually waiting for the release of 3113 which came in the form of Clockwork Angels. Personally, I just want enjoy the music and the band and DT does that for me more than most bands. I would never want to judge a a piece of any music based on what I WISH it could be - what a waste.

So give up the romance of "the glory years" as there is never such a thing because my glory years are with each album they make because they ain't going to be around forever - like I thought Rush would be.... 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't understand the notion that all the MM-era albums are allegedly similar. DT12 was not like ADTOE at all. Do I even need to talk about the Astonishing? I don't like that album at all--to put it lightly-- but the last thing I'd say is that it's derivative of prior DT material or uninspired. DoT was completely different from the Astonishing and ADTOE. Even if you compare DoT to DT12, there are differences in addition to the similarities. DT12 has more of the variety between songs relatively speaking. The way the band described it was 'cinematic' and I agree with that when I listen to the Bigger Picture, False Awakening, IT. The orchestra section in IT literally sounds like it could be part of a movie score. DoT is NOT cinematic, maybe with the exception of PBD. It sounds like that at the end of the day, on Oct 22, we may be saying that DT15 and DoT are the two most similar albums of the MM-era. But to say that the last 4 DT albums are all the same? That sounds totally wild to me. The main difference in my opinion between these albums and the last 3 of the MP era, is that the latter had very obvious attempts to borrow sounds from other bands (Muse comes to mind right away).

[bosk1]

I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another.  For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release.  Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all.  I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all.  I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".

Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made.  Just a few really.  Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.

Oh, I totally agree.  I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him.  Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...

This board reminds me of the Rush message board. For years fans yearned for the years of 2112 perpetually waiting for the release of 3113 which came in the form of Clockwork Angels. Personally, I just want enjoy the music and the band and DT does that for me more than most bands. I would never want to judge a a piece of any music based on what I WISH it could be - what a waste.

So give up the romance of "the glory years" as there is never such a thing because my glory years are with each album they make because they ain't going to be around forever - like I thought Rush would be.... 

Great post. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?

It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.

[KevShmev]

Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?

It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.

1992-2002

Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT).  That is the consensus.