What if MP and Derek both came back?

[Trav]

I really love Derek's style, and contributions to DT.  He's much more of a rock keyboardist than the JR style of prog-rock keyboardist.  Saying that, I'm glad he was a small part of their history, and has his own small era.  They wouldn't have been able to create what they have since then, without Jordan. But Derek did do some great stuff. I love his writing on songs like Lines in the Sand, Hell's Kitchen, and Anna Lee.

[Setlist Scotty]

Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".

No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.

It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"

Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.

[Ben_Jamin]

Derek had some good contributions. His I like live with the band is their cover of Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding, they made that song rock. Studio has to either be Anna Lee, Trial of Tears, and Where Are You Now?.

What they were during his time with them was interesting. Although, fun looking, it was a time of struggle for the band. Having to, in a sense, rediscover the band, find the new direction the band must take. And once they did, LTE played a major part in it I feel (although it wasn't intentional LTE was going to include the members it did, I wish it was how MP intended it to be), they got JR to join and came back with a bang.

Although it was short, I feel Derek was the necessary person they needed to help them continue on as a band. He brought a personality that is energetic, watching him on Five Years In A Livetime shows this. Yet the music they made was either hard rocking or Moody.

[ytserush]

Although it was short, I feel Derek was the necessary person they needed to help them continue on as a band. He brought a personality that is energetic, watching him on Five Years In A Livetime shows this. Yet the music they made was either hard rocking or Moody.

Hadn't considered this before.

Like it or not (and I didn't) it may have been a necessary step.

[Peter Mc]

Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".

No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.

It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"

Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.

It's possible of course but I seem to remember Portnoy saying that Sherinian was not a great fit anyway, regardless of Jordan's change of heart. They weren't keen on his onstage persona with the lava lamps and rockstar image. I think things would likely have come to a head at some point. I think Mike said something along the lines of DS being more of a Van Halen/Kiss style guy and not a prog guy.

[Setlist Scotty]

Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".

No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.

It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"

Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.

It's possible of course but I seem to remember Portnoy saying that Sherinian was not a great fit anyway, regardless of Jordan's change of heart. They weren't keen on his onstage persona with the lava lamps and rockstar image. I think things would likely have come to a head at some point. I think Mike said something along the lines of DS being more of a Van Halen/Kiss style guy and not a prog guy.

MP did make a comment that DS didn't quite fit in with the rest of the guys because of his onstage persona, and because he was the only single guy in the band; so his priorities were somewhat different than the other guys. But it never had anything to do with the music, which was the most important thing. And if you look at the way DS presented himself live before Touring Into Infinity, as well as since then, you'll see the shag carpet, lava lamps, sunglasses and "rockstar" clothes are gone - so it seems that those were just a temporary thing, not unlike JP's awful stage clothes during the Octavarium tour. Had those things been long term and therefore a real issue, I'm sure the band would've addressed them in much the same manner as they spoke with JL following the end of World Tourbulence. Whether DS would've responded positively to such a chat or not is debatable, but unless he got itchy feet to go elsewhere and/or didn't like the constrains of the band, I'd imagine he'd still be in the band if not for what happened with LTE.

[KevShmev]

Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.

[LCArenas]

Another double album, that's for sure. No amount of keyboardists and drummers can keep just to one album. I'd expect at least 5 instrumentals, too

[Setlist Scotty]

Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.

The thing is, I don't really think the way he dressed, decorated his part of the stage, etc. was being himself, but trying to strike a different style now that he was firmly within the band. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans, since KM had been so revered within the band before him, and there's no way he could've ever measured up to him.

[Cool Chris]

he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans,

Could have been accomplished by playing better music 

[Madman Shepherd]

he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans,

Could have been accomplished by playing better music 

Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnn.

Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.

If I remember, in the commentary for 5YIALT, Petrucci did try talking to him about how out of place his stage decorations were and Derek responded, "Then let's do it to the whole stage," and for a while the lava lamps were expanded. Been a while since I listened to it but that's my recollection. 

So Kev, I don't think you're far off the mark.

[rumborak]

I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.

[Dublagent66]

Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".

It wasn't about JR changing his mind or being willing to join.  JR was unavailable (had other commitments) when they asked him to join before they settled with DS.

[ytserush]

I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.

At the time I didn't like it at all. I saw it as the beginning of the end (and from what we found out later that was pretty close to the truth.)

It seemed totally out of character for the band at that point. But as soon as Jordan joined I became able to enjoy that period knowing it wouldn't continue.  Still don't listen to the band live much during this period although I did pull Once In A LiveTime off of the shelf last weekend.

Some cool moments on that record, but there are a lot more than make me cringe. This may be the only period in Dream Theater's history where I'd prefer the studio recordings over the live material.

[Trav]

I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.

[nikatapi]

I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.

Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.

[Trav]

I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.

Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.

Yeah! It feels like a 70s live album.

[goo-goo]

I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.

Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.

Pretty much my feelings about Once in a Livetime. I just wished the full show would have been released.

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm sure the label didn't allow it at the time (Scotty may correct me on this and I appreciate that.) OIALT was the first DT album I've ever listened to as a child btw. (I was 8 at the time. Been a fan for 20 years now and counting.) Back on topic: Either one rejoning wouldn't be a good thing at all. (IMHO) Total step back for the band. (again IMHO, technically speaking and musically speaking)

[jammindude]

There are some fantastic moments on OIALT.  Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.

But it's a tough listen.   Overall, I would say it's JLB's worst performance on an official live release.  He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later.  It would have made a big difference.   But, it is what it is.

[Anxiety35]

There are some fantastic moments on OIALT.  Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.

But it's a tough listen.   Overall, I would say it's JLB's worst performance on an official live release.  He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later.  It would have made a big difference.   But, it is what it is.

I read somewhere a long time ago that LaBrie had a cold and that explains some of the vocal issues.

[bosk1]

That may be.  I can't remember.  But it isn't the only time on the tour that he struggled.  I am quick to defend James, but there were times on that tour that were absolutely some of the lowest vocal points in history for this band.  The L.A. show from that tour makes the Paris OIALT show sound like a vocal tour de force by comparison.

[TAC]

I remember being so psyched about DT finally releasing a live album. But man, I could not believe the vocals. I had seen DT a number of times by that point and had quite a few boots, but I never heard that before.

Oh, and that LA show told me one and only one thing. That all was not well in the DT camp. The vocals were so bad, I assumed MP was trying to embarrass James by releasing it on Ytsejam. I remember hearing it for the first time that James cannot be happy that this is out.

Honestly, I rarely if ever listen to any FII era shows. It really is the DT's gawky preteen years.

[Ben_Jamin]

Not having heard or bought Once in A Livetime (kind of funny since I'm a big big fan of the band) I cringe at Your Majesty, the live version on the DT book cd.

[noxon]

My biggest issue with OIALT is actually the mic dropping out on james frequently.

[Max Kuehnau]

Yes, very much so.

[Dream Team]

I remember being so psyched about DT finally releasing a live album. But man, I could not believe the vocals. I had seen DT a number of times by that point and had quite a few boots, but I never heard that before.

Oh, and that LA show told me one and only one thing. That all was not well in the DT camp. The vocals were so bad, I assumed MP was trying to embarrass James by releasing it on Ytsejam. I remember hearing it for the first time that James cannot be happy that this is out.

Honestly, I rarely if ever listen to any FII era shows. It really is the DT's gawky preteen years.

Nice. So true.

[Peter Mc]

There are some fantastic moments on OIALT.  Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.

But it's a tough listen.   Overall, I would say it's JLB's worst performance on an official live release.  He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later.  It would have made a big difference.   But, it is what it is.

Exactly this, some cool moments, love the Freebird solo at the end of Take The Time (didn't actually know that's what it was at the time but I've learned since) but don't enjoy the actual song because of the vocals.  Haven't listened to it for so long that I can't remember a lot of it or whether James is ok on some songs.  Wasn't keen on the medley thing either.  Will give it another listen at some point.

[goo-goo]

I love Once in a Livetime. It's raw, energetic, pumps me up a lot. It was the 2nd DT album I ever bought. There's a few other live albums that make me feel this way: Fates Warning Still Life and Live in Athens; and Evergrey's A Night to Remember. I deeply enjoy the FII era and the live official bootlegs are in constant rotation. The thing is, subsequent DT live albums sound overly produced (even Score to some degree but not as much). I just like the small but energetic audience and ambiance in live records. Live in Luna Park sounds very artificial as well as Breaking the Fourth Wall, even though the setlists are perfect. Even though I love Live at Budokan, I do think it suffers a lot from the "audio perfection" but also, I think it came out like that because of the Japanese audience. LSNFY would be my 2nd favorite DT live album.

A friend of mine gave me Images and Words (cassette) and I was living in Mexico at that time. When I went to the record stores, I had only seen Once in a Livetime at the shelves. So I got it and spent hours and hours listening to it. But also spent hours and hours trying to hunt down the previous albums. I spent hours dissecting the album artwork trying to associate it with the songs (for whatever reason, I was young LOL). I have a lot of fond memories of this live album. Also, love the artwork. I believe it's a very underrated artwork in the DT collection.

[rumborak]

I just put on OIALT, and ... who sings the rap with MP at the beginning TTT? Derek?

[metrojam]

I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.

Hear hear. Loved the DS era live shows.

[Cool Chris]

I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.

I never saw DT live until the TOT tour so can't speak from personal experience. What do you feel it was about their live shows prior to this time that necessitated a "loosening up?" 

[pg1067]

I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.

I never saw DT live until the TOT tour so can't speak from personal experience. What do you feel it was about their live shows prior to this time that necessitated a "loosening up?"

Good question.  I saw DT thrice with Kevin Moore and once with Derek while he was still a "trial member" of the band (12/8/94).  I never saw DT with DS as a "full member," so I don't really have a basis for comparison, but I never felt that "[t]he band badly needed [or even needed in the slightest] an injection of tongue-in-cheek" or to be "loosened up."

[rumborak]

They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part. I felt Derek's influence gave them a bit of a "we're actually having fun on stage".

[pg1067]

They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.

Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all.  I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).