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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: darkshade on May 28, 2018, 12:49:41 PM
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Like next album cycle down the road, the band decides they're looking for something different, maybe amends are made with MP, and instead of canning MM, going the double drummer route, and MP agrees to it, but insisting on bringing Derek back on board. Not sure how the fan base would react to all of it, though I think it would be a very positive development. It'd be pretty prog of them too. Too bad I sense the band has become Dream Theater feat. John Petrucci.
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Might be time to lay off the :hat , dude.
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No.
Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year.
And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).
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No.
Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year.
And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).
Rudess would stay.
Sherinian would bring a much needed grounded, jazzy, sound. His most recent solo album "Oceana" was the best one he's released.
Please, don't take social media so serious. Modern DT has become too much of The John Petrucci Band.
The whole reason Planet X existed was because it was a big middle finger to DT. They still let him perform with them as a guest after.
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Dream Theater doesn't need two keyboard players.
People usually show their true selves on social media. Sherinian showed everyone his true self. I will leave it at that.
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I'm not a Rudess boy and to be honest I believe Sherinian would bring progressive elements that DT lost (IMO) since SDOIT -TOT era. On the other hand I'm not fond of Sherinian personality much so overall Rudess is the best option.
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Dream Theater doesn't need two keyboard players.
People usually show their true selves on social media. Sherinian showed everyone his true self. I will leave it at that.
Exactly. There is nothing Derek brings to the table that DT "needs." And bringing him back would make the music suffer to such a degree that I'm not sure they could recover from the inevitably huge hit to their fanbase that would be caused by such a move.
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None (most?) of us know the guys personally, I find social media posts are like posting cartoon versions of yourself, or mini-press releases, unless intended to be bigger. What really shows someone's true personality is a secret camera/mic filming/recording interactions behind closed doors. Social media still has a filter to it, and from what I recall, wasn't a lot of Derek's posts (don't even remember what they were about) sort of tongue in cheek?
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Definitely not. The only way Portnoy should come back is if Mangini leaves on his own accord (and he would have a lot of work to do in terms of mending his relationships with the guys, especially James), and Derek shouldn’t come back ever. Dream Theater has always been a band that celebrates the past but don’t repeat it (cue ADToE/IaW jokes), and bringing either guy back would honestly be a step backwards.
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What if MP and Derek both came back?
I would stop listening to DT inmediately :biggrin: Thank God that's never going to happen ;)
Seriously, I still think that there might be a small chance of MP returning someday in the future if Mangini decides to leave or something, and if Portnoy is done with his 80 current bands, but both Mike and Derek? Why? To make DT sound like SOA? No, thank you. He's taken a lot of shots at them recently, and, frankly, if Jordan ever left, I'd rather have Diego Tejeida there than Derek "my keyboard sounds like a guitar" Sherinian. Like Kev said, it would be the most regressive thing to do :tdwn
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Sherinian would bring a much needed grounded, jazzy, sound.
No rock/metal band in the history of music has needed "jazzy" sound.
The whole reason Planet X existed was because it was a big middle finger to DT.
Considering how "big" Planet X was, I would say that it was a very small middle finger.
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The only ex member thas a - very slightly and tiny and nigh impossible at that - chance of returning is Portnoy. Sherinian coming back is likely as Dominici coming back.
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Nope. I really hope MP and DS keep Sons of Apollo together and make more albums. They have something really good going on and I'd like to see it take off. SOA is a good home for them and the band has a great chemistry, their live show is amazing and JSS is a excellent frontman.
Dream Theater is just fine the way they are..
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Lol no. MP maybe and I can't really see that happening. And before bringing Derek back I would aim to bring Kevin Moore since he could add something different and far more interesting than Derek could.
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I wouldn’t like the double drummer idea. That only works for Adam Ant. And this is not to say that I don’t like Mangini’s drumming. It’s the other driving elements that were lost with Portnoy’s departure. Now it’s the Petrucci show and that is only partially good, sometimes outright bad.
And I’d love to see Derek come back. I think he sounded better. Never was fully on board with what Rudess brought to the band. DS is one of the most solid keyboard players in the industry. Rudess is a pianist with a tech company and it shows.
So yeah, I like parts of the idea but it’s unlikely. The band will probably just fizzle out like these things tend to go.
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No.
Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year.
And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).
Yes, the blabbering about the old stuff was a bad idea (though understandable). But musically I think he always would’ve been the better choice.
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/notsigned™
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Both should never be allowed anywhere near Dream Theater after their disgraceful antics during the Sons of Apollo prerelease. Tbh, I'm surprised Derek even teamed up with Mike again after the way he was dismissed from DT in the late 90s.
Also, I vastly prefer it being The Petrucci Show to The Portnoy Show. The music is a ton better for it. None of that "EVERYONESURVIVEDBLAAARGH" rubbish.
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As a one off I could totally see this happening. But I dont see how it would work as a permanent solution. Much for the same reason you'll never see a second guitarist with DT ;) The ego clashes would be too great. There was a band that tried to do this - Yes, with the Union album and tour. The album was a mess, and the tour ended with three of the members leaving again.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
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The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.
I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.
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Derek especially, but even MP too, neither of them deserve to be back in DT. Keep Derek, at the least, far away from anything DT (and for all his talk about gadgets and bashing DT, he should stfu and stop playing their songs live, the tryhard 'king of keys' should play his own masterful compositions from his own extensive catalog of prog wankery).
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The only reason DT should bring MP and Derek back into the band would be so they could kick them out! The disrespect those two (especially Derek) have given to DT have eliminated any chance of them getting back in the band IMO. I used to hope Mike would return to DT eventually, but I don’t feel that way anymore.
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In a band as "busy" (in a musical sense) as DT, having two drummers and two keyboard players would be absolutely ridiculous.
Seems to me that the whole point of this thread is that the OP is less than satisfied with the level of control that JP has had over the band since MP left.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.
I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.
Well...what would it mean to "accept MP back" into the band? Whether or not the fans, individually or collectively, like something only matters as it relates to album sales and concert attendance. Lots of folks didn't "accept" MP leaving and being replaced by MM. Would some fans stop listening to DT if MP came back? Probably, but I think at least an equal number of fans who stopped listening after he left the band would start listening again. I think that, for the fan base as a whole (as opposed to the small sample that post here), acceptance will depend on the quality of the musical output.
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In a band as "busy" (in a musical sense) as DT, having two drummers and two keyboard players would be absolutely ridiculous.
Seems to me that the whole point of this thread is that the OP is less than satisfied with the level of control that JP has had over the band since MP left.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.
I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.
Well...what would it mean to "accept MP back" into the band? Whether or not the fans, individually or collectively, like something only matters as it relates to album sales and concert attendance. Lots of folks didn't "accept" MP leaving and being replaced by MM. Would some fans stop listening to DT if MP came back? Probably, but I think at least an equal number of fans who stopped listening after he left the band would start listening again. I think that, for the fan base as a whole (as opposed to the small sample that post here), acceptance will depend on the quality of the musical output.
I pretty much agree with all of that. And as to the bolded part, that is largely my point with regard to Derek specifically. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think there are a statistically significant number of fans that would write off DT out of awareness of and reaction to Derek's social media conduct. But, while I'm not taking away from Derek's ability as a player or songwriter, he just isn't as strong in either category as Jordan, and I think fans would likely notice a dropoff in quality that would cause album sales to suffer, just as they did with FII.
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Diego Tejeida from Haken would be a perfect fit. He already did the Shattered Fortress tour with MP and nailed it perfectly.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.
I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.
I would definitely not be happy with MP returning if they kick Mangini out for it to happen. If MM decides to leave by his own choice, I'd be ok with it, as long as they don't become MP backing vocals/growls fest again. However, I'd rather have DT with someone like Bobby Jarzombek, for example, as opposed to another stint with Portnoy.
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The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no. Not even a little. Hard pass.
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The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no. Not even a little. Hard pass.
No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.
B.Lee
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In reply to the original post, MP and DS are already in a band together so maybe you should listen to Sons Of Apollo if you crave hearing what they produce. Not sure DT need any help from them when you consider how SOA are doing in comparison. I do quite like their album as it happens but it's not on DT's level for me at least.
As for fans accepting them back, I think it's completely different for Mike than it is for Derek. Mike is a founder member and is intrinsically linked with the band for most of their existence. I think fans will largely welcome him back and be excited to see what happened, not every single person of course, but most will like to see as close to the classic line-up as possible. Clearly though, the music would still have to be good.
I'm not sure even the biggest Sherinian fanboy out there can claim that he is part of the classic line-up. He did one classic EP, largely written before he arrived, and one album with a fairly mixed reception. Not too many people are pining for Derek to come back irrespective of his hilarious banter and I for one think he is nowhere near the level of Jordan Rudess or Kevin Moore as a musician or composer. He was let go for a reason whether Mike wants to re-write history regarding his part in it or not. I'm not saying that I would stop listening to DT if Derek came back, just that I would not be remotely excited or even intrigued if he did and I think it would be a step backwards.
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Will DT and MP play again together? Most certainly at some sort of reunion show, most likely in NYC when DT nears the end of their career. Will MP rejoin? Never. JP (like it or not) is the sole captain and he isn't going to disrupt the trajectory they are on.
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join. So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning. I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
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To answer the OP, I can't ever imagine DT going the double drummer/double keyboard route. I think the comparison to Yes' Union lineup is a good one.
And at this point in time, I can't imagine MP ever coming back on a permanent basis. A lot of things would have to happen before that could ever be a possibility, starting with MM choosing to leave the band on his own. Not an impossibility, but highly unlikely. And DS coming back is even more improbable, although not out of the complete realm of possibility. Given that they are playing together in a band that's sort of prog-metal, I don't see it happening in any case.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no. Not even a little. Hard pass.
No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.
No, saying "the" fan base implies most of the fans. It goes without saying that every single individual that is a part of the fan base is never going to agree with everything that happens. It's why there are those still upset over MP leaving and MM being DT's drummer, as well as those who welcome MM and are glad MP is gone. It's why everybody's ranking of DT's albums is different. And noxon knew that when he made his post.
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join. So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning. I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
Ummmmm....no. In Lifting Shadows, MP states that JP and JM approached him in the lunch room, and they decided to get together and jam. He even said "We never even officially said 'Hey, let's get together and form a band.'" Further, JP stated "As far as I was concerned, we had a band before we went [to Berklee]. It was me, John and Kevin and we had different drummers we were playing with. When we went there, in a way it was like breaking up the band because Kevin didn't go there. So I don't think in my mind I was thinking about going there to form a band."
It's clear that JP and JM did not have intentions of forming a band, nor had they done so before meeting MP. So please stop with the pointless, misleading and unnecessary comments.
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk
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Um....Kevin Moore.
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk
Those guys all look way too happy for any of them to be in a metal band! :D :metal :D :metal
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join. So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning. I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
That's splitting hairs that have already been split. Even if it was correct that "John and John had already decided to start a band" when they met MP, "decid[ing] to start a band" and actually having started a band are two very different things. To play on the "his baby" metaphor, it's like saying that the father of an actual baby wasn't really "there from the beginning" because the mother "had already decided to" have a child.
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To answer the OP, I can't ever imagine DT going the double drummer/double keyboard route. I think the comparison to Yes' Union lineup is a good one.
And at this point in time, I can't imagine MP ever coming back on a permanent basis. A lot of things would have to happen before that could ever be a possibility, starting with MM choosing to leave the band on his own. Not an impossibility, but highly unlikely. And DS coming back is even more improbable, although not out of the complete realm of possibility. Given that they are playing together in a band that's sort of prog-metal, I don't see it happening in any case.
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no. Not even a little. Hard pass.
No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.
No, saying "the" fan base implies most of the fans. It goes without saying that every single individual that is a part of the fan base is never going to agree with everything that happens. It's why there are those still upset over MP leaving and MM being DT's drummer, as well as those who welcome MM and are glad MP is gone. It's why everybody's ranking of DT's albums is different. And noxon knew that when he made his post.
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join. So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning. I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
Ummmmm....no. In Lifting Shadows, MP states that JP and JM approached him in the lunch room, and they decided to get together and jam. He even said "We never even officially said 'Hey, let's get together and form a band.'" Further, JP stated "As far as I was concerned, we had a band before we went [to Berklee]. It was me, John and Kevin and we had different drummers we were playing with. When we went there, in a way it was like breaking up the band because Kevin didn't go there. So I don't think in my mind I was thinking about going there to form a band."
It's clear that JP and JM did not have intentions of forming a band, nor had they done so before meeting MP. So please stop with the pointless, misleading and unnecessary comments.
From the Berklee website alumni page:
In 1985, Dream Theater began as Majesty after longtime bandmates Petrucci and Myung arrived at Berklee in search of a drummer who was into progressive rock and metal. They heard Portnoy in a practice room and soon began jamming together. The trio would become the core of one of rock's most virtuosic and heavy bands. After leaving Berklee, the group added a vocalist and keyboard player and changed its name to Dream Theater. Current vocalist LaBrie is the band's third singer and the best fit. His agile voice snarls on the metal tune "The Dark Eternal Night" and then soars sweet and high on the power ballad "The Ministry of Lost Souls" (both from Systematic Chaos). The fleet-fingered Rudess, who joined in 1999 and replaced Berklee alumnus Derek Sherinian '84, is the band's third keyboard player (for more on Sherinian, see "Prepared to Handle Anything," page 13).
I guess you know best, you read a book and this could be wrong, but I was not misleading anyone. I truly always thought this was the actual history and that JP was in fact the mother of DT.
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk
I have their album. You guys should definitely check out Arch Echo. Fucking amazing stuff.
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From the Berklee website alumni page:
In 1985, Dream Theater began as Majesty after longtime bandmates Petrucci and Myung arrived at Berklee in search of a drummer who was into progressive rock and metal. They heard Portnoy in a practice room and soon began jamming together. The trio would become the core of one of rock's most virtuosic and heavy bands. After leaving Berklee, the group added a vocalist and keyboard player and changed its name to Dream Theater. Current vocalist LaBrie is the band's third singer and the best fit. His agile voice snarls on the metal tune "The Dark Eternal Night" and then soars sweet and high on the power ballad "The Ministry of Lost Souls" (both from Systematic Chaos). The fleet-fingered Rudess, who joined in 1999 and replaced Berklee alumnus Derek Sherinian '84, is the band's third keyboard player (for more on Sherinian, see "Prepared to Handle Anything," page 13).
I guess you know best, you read a book and this could be wrong, but I was not misleading anyone. I truly always thought this was the actual history and that JP was in fact the mother of DT.
It seems to me that "a book" written and published with the band's approval and participation and which was based almost entirely on interviews with the then current and former band members is a more reliable source than an "alumni page" for a school of which, arguably, none of the band members are actually alumni (because they didn't graduate) and which they only attended for a few months.
Yes, Petrucci and Myung had been "bandmates" before going to Berklee, but whatever band may have existed before they went there effectively broke up as a result of them going there.
And, if JP is the "mother" (or, more accurately, JP and JM collectively), then MP is the "father," so the "my baby" comments were and are perfectly reasonable.
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From the Berklee website alumni page:
In 1985, Dream Theater began as Majesty after longtime bandmates Petrucci and Myung arrived at Berklee in search of a drummer who was into progressive rock and metal. They heard Portnoy in a practice room and soon began jamming together. The trio would become the core of one of rock's most virtuosic and heavy bands. After leaving Berklee, the group added a vocalist and keyboard player and changed its name to Dream Theater. Current vocalist LaBrie is the band's third singer and the best fit. His agile voice snarls on the metal tune "The Dark Eternal Night" and then soars sweet and high on the power ballad "The Ministry of Lost Souls" (both from Systematic Chaos). The fleet-fingered Rudess, who joined in 1999 and replaced Berklee alumnus Derek Sherinian '84, is the band's third keyboard player (for more on Sherinian, see "Prepared to Handle Anything," page 13).
I guess you know best, you read a book and this could be wrong, but I was not misleading anyone. I truly always thought this was the actual history and that JP was in fact the mother of DT.
It seems to me that "a book" written and published with the band's approval and participation and which was based almost entirely on interviews with the then current and former band members is a more reliable source than an "alumni page" for a school of which, arguably, none of the band members are actually alumni (because they didn't graduate) and which they only attended for a few months.
Yes, Petrucci and Myung had been "bandmates" before going to Berklee, but whatever band may have existed before they went there effectively broke up as a result of them going there.
And, if JP is the "mother" (or, more accurately, JP and JM collectively), then MP is the "father," so the "my baby" comments were and are perfectly reasonable.
If John is the mother and Mike is the father then they're both in a weird sex cult that invites three different keyboard players, a bassist, and....
...or we could just stop with marriage analogies. :'(
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:lol
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In a band as "busy" (in a musical sense) as DT, having two drummers and two keyboard players would be absolutely ridiculous.
Agreed. I'm a little surprised the personal feelings people have against Portnoy & Sherinian are the primary reasons why they'd be against a reunion taking place. Even if there was never any bad blood or stupid online comments, I still wouldn't be too excited by the idea of Portnoy & Sherinian rejoining the band with Rudess & Mangini still in.
As far as Portnoy & Sherinian replacing Rudess & Mangini...I think that could be interesting. I can't make any predictions on how the music would turn out though.
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PG1067 you state the obvious and I don't disagree. If I had the history wrong, I'm happy to learn. I have not read Lifting Shadows and I read the Berklee account 15 years ago and always thought it accurate. The Berklee account would seem to indicate JP and JM had the concept in mind and were looking for a drummer. That is why it always bothered me that MP seemed to implicitly take the credit for being the impetus for starting the band. It's really not all that important.
And I know SetScott is one of the "cool" guys here and well connected. I didn't appreciate being accused of spreading lies. My posting style/history is certainly not one of bashing anyone and I am more goofy than anything. I would rather have had the opportunity to explain my comments than to be lectured.
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I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think you are really that far off. And I think one of the reasons Scott reacted the way he did doesn't really have anything to do with you.
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Right, Scotty has to keep up his rep as DTF's resident fact checker and Mike Portnoy's unofficial lawyer on this site. :P :biggrin:
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Whatever went down at college, by the time Dream Theater were formed, Mike was very much a member of the band so he is a founder member. In addition to that, from all accounts (mainly Mike himself but no one has ever disputed it) it was Portnoy who really worked his ass off to promote the band and get them off the ground. I think it’s generally accepted that without Mike’s efforts, the band would not be where they are today. Musically JP is probably the main composer but in pretty much every other respect Portnoy was the main man.
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And I know SetScott is one of the "cool" guys here and well connected. I didn't appreciate being accused of spreading lies. My posting style/history is certainly not one of bashing anyone and I am more goofy than anything. I would rather have had the opportunity to explain my comments than to be lectured.
Well, I apologize for coming off as heavy handed. But unfortunately there have been plenty of times that different ones will unfairly accuse MP of something due to speculation, and from my viewpoint, your post came off exactly that way. There's a reason why I have Blob's quote as my sig on all my posts... ;)
That said, if you haven't read Lifting Shadows, by all means, do so. I'm sure there's plenty of details that even a longtime fan like yourself may not be aware of.
Whatever went down at college, by the time Dream Theater were formed, Mike was very much a member of the band so he is a founder member. In addition to that, from all accounts (mainly Mike himself but no one has ever disputed it) it was Portnoy who really worked his ass off to promote the band and get them off the ground. I think it’s generally accepted that without Mike’s efforts, the band would not be where they are today. Musically JP is probably the main composer but in pretty much every other respect Portnoy was the main man.
Exactly, which is why it's not wrong for MP to have referred to DT as his baby, marriage analogies be damned.
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Exactly, which is why it's not wrong for MP to have referred to DT as his baby, marriage analogies be damned.
Yeah, it's wrong. Just because you are "the main man" doesn't mean you were the only one involved. Otherwise you would be "the only man."
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Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk
I have their album. You guys should definitely check out Arch Echo. Fucking amazing stuff.
I second that. I literally just discovered them this past Monday. This is definitely my favorite track on the album, but there are lots of other great moments too...very well written and played!
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Just because you are "the main man" doesn't mean you were the only one involved. Otherwise you would be "the only man."
No one is arguing that the others were involved, but aside from JP, no where near the amount MP was. So given that he busted his ass in so many ways still means he has every right to refer to it as his baby.
I won't justify the way he handled things in September 2010, but that doesn't take away everything he put into the band up until that point.
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Right. Even though my wife had something to do with it, I still refer to my kids as......my kids. :lol
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Right. Even though my wife had something to do with it, I still refer to my kids as......my kids. :lol
:biggrin:
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Agree... I am not a fan of Portnoy and I definitely would not want him back. However, the amount of energy and time he put into DT over the years really cannot be denied. Either way you look at the history, he was basically there from the beginning.
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I can't foresee a permanent change, but having Derek and MP join DT on an upcoming tour would be cool - they could rotate on and off stage with MM and JR for a various songs highlighting their respective contributions to the catalog - followed by an all-out jam encore where they all play on stage for a couple of tunes.
Any takers?
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I can't foresee a permanent change, but having Derek and MP join DT on an upcoming tour would be cool - they could rotate on and off stage with MM and JR for a various songs highlighting their respective contributions to the catalog - followed by an all-out jam encore where they all play on stage for a couple of tunes.
Any takers?
Definitely not.
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I can't foresee a permanent change, but having Derek and MP join DT on an upcoming tour would be cool - they could rotate on and off stage with MM and JR for a various songs highlighting their respective contributions to the catalog - followed by an all-out jam encore where they all play on stage for a couple of tunes.
Any takers?
Not really. Down the road for their last tour or something - maybe if they wanted to have all of the former members (who are willing) make a guest appearance, that's fine, but I don't really want it to happen either.
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I can't foresee a permanent change, but having Derek and MP join DT on an upcoming tour would be cool - they could rotate on and off stage with MM and JR for a various songs highlighting their respective contributions to the catalog - followed by an all-out jam encore where they all play on stage for a couple of tunes.
Any takers?
Good grief. no.
Jordan Rudess and Mike Mangini are full-time members of the band. Why should they become part-time players for even a single show? To make room for a guy who was fired 20 years ago and a guy who quit 8 years ago? Hell no.
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People are high Kev.
That is all.
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MP on a special occasion, I wouldn't mind, to play a song or two. That would only be for a farewell show or something.
Derek though, he can stay away from the band. My interactions with him on Facebook soured me on him and his actions before Sons of Apollo released their album made me not even able to listen to his stuff. I don't think he even likes the guys in the band, so it wouldn't work
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I wouldn't mind DT doing what The Gathering did.
Basically playing a final show of their career and inviting back all their old members to join them on various tunes.
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I wouldn't mind DT doing what The Gathering did.
Basically playing a final show of their career and inviting back all their old members to join them on various tunes.
Huh, never heard of a band doing that. Hope all the departures were on good terms.
As to the question at hand, I'll second the "Hell No" option.
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I wouldn't mind DT doing what The Gathering did.
Basically playing a final show of their career and inviting back all their old members to join them on various tunes.
Huh, never heard of a band doing that. Hope all the departures were on good terms.
As to the question at hand, I'll second the "Hell No" option.
It seems at least most, if not all, of the departures were on good terms. I'm also not 100% it was ALL past members, but it was most of them at least. And old singers sang new songs, and the new singer sang old songs, and all three singers harmonized on other songs. It was a pitch perfect way to end a career.
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I wouldn't mind DT doing what The Gathering did.
Basically playing a final show of their career and inviting back all their old members to join them on various tunes.
Do you mean they all gathered for that special event?
:splodetard:
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:|
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.
And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
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I can't foresee a permanent change, but having Derek and MP join DT on an upcoming tour would be cool - they could rotate on and off stage with MM and JR for a various songs highlighting their respective contributions to the catalog - followed by an all-out jam encore where they all play on stage for a couple of tunes.
Any takers?
Definitely not.
I wouldn't say definitely, but pretty close. Would it be cool to see? Sure. Bring them all back...Chris, Charlie, Kevin, Derek, MP.... He'll bring Steve Stone back for one song for all I care. Will it happen? No. Someone earlier in the thread hypothecized that it was certain that MP will come back at some point to sit in with the band on one or two songs (not rotating with MM) but that Derek never would. I wouldn't necessarily agree it's certain that this will happen with MP, but I agree that it's reasonably likely. I also agree that there's little to no chance of something like that with Derek. At the end of the day, Derek was a relatively insignificant blip on DT's radar, and he has already been brought back (for WDaDRu). That's enough. I also feel like MP was the guy who was pushing to do things like this. Since JP is essentially the captain at this point, I don't think things like this will be high on his priority list.
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Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
I don't agree with your assessment but I appreciate how you laid it out without sounding all "MP GOOD MM BAD!" I miss the energy of MP in concert but that doesn't outweigh me not missing the growls and other crappy vocal melodies and musical direction choices he spearheaded.
Sort of branching out from here, at some point though, when does a band stop being a group of guys and become a revolving door for new and younger talent. It's not like a sports team, when players retire or are canned due to age and diminishing returns. You could conceivably do that with a band, replace James with a younger vocalist with a stronger voice for improved live performances for example, but to me that takes away from what a band is trying to be.
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.
And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
You bet! I guess half of your 20000ish posts are about that…
Kidding of course...just 15000! :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
I don't agree with your assessment but I appreciate how you laid it out without sounding all "MP GOOD MM BAD!" I miss the energy of MP in concert but that doesn't outweigh me not missing the growls and other crappy vocal melodies and musical direction choices he spearheaded.
Sort of branching out from here, at some point though, when does a band stop being a group of guys and become a revolving door for new and younger talent. It's not like a sports team, when players retire or are canned due to age and diminishing returns. You could conceivably do that with a band, replace James with a younger vocalist with a stronger voice for improved live performances for example, but to me that takes away from what a band is trying to be.
YES has been a revolving door type of band for years. Now that they don't have Jon Anderson, I pretty much quit following them. Now if the other incarnation of YES stays together (Anderson, Rabin, Wakeman) I will definitely follow them.
If JLB wasn't in DT anymore, I might still follow them but not with as much enthusiasm..
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.
And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
You bet! I guess half of your 20000ish posts are about that…
Kidding of course...just 15000! :biggrin:
B.Lee
Of the 20k posts probably only 100 of them have been DT related. But 100% of those have been "Yeah! Portnoy/Booo! JLB!" :lol
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.
And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
You bet! I guess half of your 20000ish posts are about that…
Kidding of course...just 15000! :biggrin:
B.Lee
Of the 20k posts probably only 100 of them have been DT related. But 100% of those have been "Yeah! Portnoy/Booo! JLB!" :lol
:lol
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If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.
And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.
I wouldn't want this to happen but if it did, I'd be very fucking interested to hear what they come up with.
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If they could all just get along (something I really doubt at this point), I'd rather see something like Spock's Beard did for their 20th anniversary, where all (or almost all) the past and current members recorded a big epic for their compilation album. A DT version of that would be very cool, but I don't think we'll ever see anything like that.
BTW, something that hasn't been talked here, though, is that whether or not MP and DS would want to come back. I'm pretty sure Derek wouldn't and I think Mike would, but just because he still feels like it's his place and his band ("his baby") and would probably do it "for the fans" as well. However, I don't think he'd ever be comfortable with the new dynamic in DT, as he was used to call most of the shots on things like the setlists, production, etc.
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It would be a tough pill to swallow, but I think Portnoy would return to the band even if it was made clear that he would not be in charge like the old days. I just can't see Petrucci handing the keys back over to him, especially in regards to set lists.
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Why is Derek even part of this scenario?
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I have met JP twice, but I don't "know" him. But he seems like a kind, reasonable person. I really believe that somewhere, sometime before they hang it up he will invite MP to play at least a song or two for a proper onstage goodbye. Maybe a song MP chose and then Finally Free would be fitting. To NOT offer that to MP, regardless of the past, would in my mind be a bit cruel.
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My bet is that in DT's farewell tour (which I hope is FAR FAR away from now) all of DT's former memebers will reunite in one big event. But I higly doubt it as we all know what happened with DS and that KM is nowhere to be seen. But, you never know...
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I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year? I know it isn't their most popular album but since it was the last album Portnoy worked on I'm curious if there is any interest in an anniversary show similar to what they did for Dominici back in 2004 for WDADU's 15th. Maybe use the opportunity to play the entire 12 Step Suite with him?
I know it's probably a long shot. I'm not holding my breath for this one.
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I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year?
I highly doubt it.
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My bet is that in DT's farewell tour (which I hope is FAR FAR away from now) all of DT's former memebers will reunite in one big event. But I higly doubt it as we all know what happened with DS and that KM is nowhere to be seen. But, you never know...
I am not sure I would assume there'll be a farewell tour. What bands have actually done farewell tours (where they didn't end up touring again)? I am sure there are a few, but I am having trouble thinking of anyone at the moment (The Gathering, maybe?).
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It’d be very cool to have Kevin Moore collaborate with lyrics on a new DT song.
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I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year? I know it isn't their most popular album but since it was the last album Portnoy worked on I'm curious if there is any interest in an anniversary show similar to what they did for Dominici back in 2004 for WDADU's 15th. Maybe use the opportunity to play the entire 12 Step Suite with him?
I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.
I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
I am not sure I would assume there'll be a farewell tour. What bands have actually done farewell tours (where they didn't end up touring again)? I am sure there are a few, but I am having trouble thinking of anyone at the moment (The Gathering, maybe?).
Rush (although it wasn't officially billed as a "farewell" tour, everyone knew that's what it was).
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I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.
I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?
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I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.
I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration?
Exactly. Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
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I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.
I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?
That is his point. They DIDN'T acknowledge SC's 10th anniversary, so they won't likely acknowledge BCSL's.
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Of course he did, now that I read it again. I just read it completely wrong the first time.
Do the guys (minus MM) even like BC&SL and SC? :lol
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Yup, they do. Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously). But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
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That was definitely me be snarky. I am not the tourography wizard like some fans are so never keep track mentally of what is played on various tours.
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I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
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Of course he did, now that I read it again. I just read it completely wrong the first time.
Do the guys (minus MM) even like BC&SL and SC? :lol
Fwiw, MM said his favorite song to perform (of the other Mikes) at a Q&A I was at was Dark Eternal Night. This was about 5 years ago so maybe it's changed
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
Indeed ( to both points)
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I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums ;D
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Yup, they do. Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously). But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
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Yup, they do. Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously). But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
As far as BCSL, I know they played TCOT on the European leg right after the announcement of Mangini joining before the proper ADTOE tour kicked off. I want to say they played Wither and ANTR a couple of times on those shows, but I'm not sure and may be misremembering that. So BCSL is covered on the pre-ADTOE tour.
Then on the ADTOE tour, they played Forsaken and TDEN.
On the AFTR tour, they played TSF.
For the TA tour, they didn't touch either album.
Then for the I&W tour, they did TDEN again.
So, yeah, all Mangini tours other than TA had SC, BCSL, or both.
As far as TOT, 8V, or SDOIT...I know they did ES and AIA after Mangini joining. I don't believe they've done anything from 8V, but I may not be remembering. SDOIT...I know they did parts of the title song and they've done TGD. I don't remember if they've done anything else.
EDIT: Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.
Anyone who would like is welcome to search the tour archive in case I missed anything. :D
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Yup, they do. Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously). But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
Actually, since MM joined, they've played:
SC: Forsaken (2011 tour before ADTOE), TDEN (ADTOE tour and IWAB tour) and CM (2015 tour)
BC&SL: TCOT (2011 tour before ADTOE), TSF (AFTR tour) and Wither (2015 tour).
EDIT: Bosk beat me to it ;D
EDIT2:
SDOIT: TGD (2011 tour), WIMH and TTTSTA (ADTOE tour), About to Crash (2015 tour).
TOT: AIA (many many times), ES (ADTOE tour).
OVM: These Walls (ADTOE tour), TROAE (ADTOE tour), Panic Attack (2015 tour)
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You forgot The Root of All Evil, ADTOE tour.
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I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.
I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?
I think MP is far more nostalgic than the other guys in the band, especially when it comes to their early history (before they made it "big"), so without MP, they probably would've passed that day by without even remembering that WDaDU was released on March 6th. But it also served as a means for them to finally re-record (albeit live) WDaDU with the then current line-up. So many fans had been wanting WDaDU, but with JL on vocals and remixed. So doing this particular anniversary show was the opportunity for them to do it too.
Given that both CD and DS live in SoCal and the show was happening in LA, it was an easy choice to invite them to join in on the celebration of that anniversary, especially since both songs played during the encore were songs written and performed during some of the latter shows in 1989 before CD was let go.
Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums ;D
What MirrorMask said. :tup
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Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.
Like Geoff tate celebrating Mindcrime every 5 years or so :facepalm:
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums ;D
What MirrorMask said. :tup
Well, to each their own, but SC is very underrated to me. The album is heavy, progressive, technical and, while it might not be everybody's cup of tea, it feels like it follows a clear direction and vision (a more modern sounding, heavy album with the DT trademark sound). Black Clouds, on the other hand, feels like they weren't quite sure where to go with it, some stuff isn't that good (ROOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRGGHHHHHHHHH) and it can sound stale at times
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Well this little discussion inspired me to again check out their performance of Constant Motion from Wacken in 2015. Man, that was a killer performance. :metal
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Well this little discussion inspired me to again check out their performance of Constant Motion from Wacken in 2015. Man, that was a killer performance. :metal
I recommend you also check this one from the same tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I
It's probably my favorite live version of Panic Attack, and Mangini absolutely kills it in the most amazing way :metal
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I recommend you also check this one from the same tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I
It's probably my favorite live version of Panic Attack, and Mangini absolutely kills it in the most amazing way :metal
Killer rendition. :metal
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Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.
Like Geoff tate celebrating Mindcrime every 5 years or so :facepalm:
Or Yes playing a couple of their old albums from front to back for several tours now.
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums ;D
What MirrorMask said. :tup
Well, to each their own, but SC is very underrated to me. The album is heavy, progressive, technical and, while it might not be everybody's cup of tea, it feels like it follows a clear direction and vision (a more modern sounding, heavy album with the DT trademark sound). Black Clouds, on the other hand, feels like they weren't quite sure where to go with it, some stuff isn't that good (ROOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRGGHHHHHHHHH) and it can sound stale at times
Different strokes for different folks. But I wouldn't say that they weren't quite sure where to go with it, nor that some stuff isn't good (aside from the bebot solo, the roar and some of the lyrics). The vision the band had with BCaSL was to vary the musical styles within individual songs (in reaction to SC, where they felt overall that the songs on that album didn't have much variety within each song), to create songs with non-traditional arrangements, and to do away with the inspiration corner. I'd say they succeeded in their goals.
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Yup, they do. Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously). But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
As far as BCSL, I know they played TCOT on the European leg right after the announcement of Mangini joining before the proper ADTOE tour kicked off. I want to say they played Wither and ANTR a couple of times on those shows, but I'm not sure and may be misremembering that. So BCSL is covered on the pre-ADTOE tour.
Then on the ADTOE tour, they played Forsaken and TDEN.
On the AFTR tour, they played TSF.
For the TA tour, they didn't touch either album.
Then for the I&W tour, they did TDEN again.
So, yeah, all Mangini tours other than TA had SC, BCSL, or both.
As far as TOT, 8V, or SDOIT...I know they did ES and AIA after Mangini joining. I don't believe they've done anything from 8V, but I may not be remembering. SDOIT...I know they did parts of the title song and they've done TGD. I don't remember if they've done anything else.
EDIT: Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.
Anyone who would like is welcome to search the tour archive in case I missed anything. :D
Forgot about those in between mini tours. Even so I’d still argue that they haven’t revisited those albums extensively in the last few years. I will caveat that though by saying that the AFTR tour had a big chunk of the show paying tribute to Awake and SFAM, Astonishing tour obviously didn’t feature much else at all and Images tour obviously had the whole album plus ACOS. Will be interesting to see what happens now that they have more of a free rein. Would love to hear The Glass Prison again, seems quite a big fan favourite and JP has commented before how well it went over live but they never play it.
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Yes, but given how many albums they have, it's pretty amazing that they continue to at least play something from each one of them.
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Different strokes for different folks. But I wouldn't say that they weren't quite sure where to go with it, nor that some stuff isn't good (aside from the bebot solo, the roar and some of the lyrics). The vision the band had with BCaSL was to vary the musical styles within individual songs (in reaction to SC, where they felt overall that the songs on that album didn't have much variety within each song), to create songs with non-traditional arrangements, and to do away with the inspiration corner. I'd say they succeeded in their goals.
The "reaction" path DT has done for many of their albums is not one I'm particularly fond of. And sometimes it's been blatantly obvious. I understand the "need" to have each album be an evolution or a change, but for many albums in a row in the 2000s, the subsequent album was always a reaction to the reception of the previous. ToT was a reaction to the experimental portion of SDOIT, where DT saw that TGP had a much more even reaction from the fanbase than other songs. Combined with the inspiration from going to Pantera shows etc, they created the antithesis to experimental SDOIT - the super heavy ToT. And then the reaction from the fanbase was "too heavy!", and they went to 8V. And then the reaction was "too political, to much real life!", and they went all out on "fictional stories". I know I'm simplifying it a bit now, but I do have interviews that display this very exact notion. It might not have been conscious, but they for sure were asked about it in interviews (I should know, I was responsible for some of the interviews myself! ;)
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EDIT: Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.
and Panic Attack on the 30th Anniversary mini-tour. ;)
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No.
Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year.
And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).
Not to mention Derek only did like 2 Albums with them if you will count ACoS as a full album.
It would make more sense if they will bring Kev Moor
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No.
Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year.
And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).
Not to mention Derek only did like 2 Albums with them if you will count ACoS as a full album.
It would make more sense if they will bring Kev Moor
Who recorded like, wait, 2 albums with them...
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3
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Oooops!
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ꜛ That's not a blunder, but proof n.356 there is no DT without Big James.
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ꜛ That's not a blunder, but proof n.356 there is no DT without Big James.
Thank you!
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With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out. True, two of those three albums are considered as "classics", but so is Scenes from a Memory and even Six Degrees (maybe?); so there is no real guarantee that DT would constantly put out "masterpieces" with KM on board. True, he's an incredible songwriter, but it was evident from the Awake era that he was not in line with what DT was going. Just an observation, which led me to another thought. It's almost uncanny that the next DT album is going to be DT's fourth without Mike Portnoy. Time flies, eh?
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With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.
I mostly agree. But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band.
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What if MP and Derek both came back?
Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. :lol
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METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED :metal
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3
METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED :metal
Popular opinion is that this would be terrible, but I actually wouldn't mind it.
Edward got away with it once then again through reincarnation. So that's TWICE the bad guy got away and people want the good guy to win so a Part 3 that ends Edward forever would be interesting and satisfying.
It wouldn't even have to be an entire album, just a single song, long or short... maybe even a ballad where original Victoria comes to reincarnated Edward in a dream or haunts him until he confesses to the murders (at least the one he just did) and finally gets his just rewards.
Or, instead of being vengeful, Victoria takes the high road and tries to understand his pain and forgive him and then that somehow does the job as well, but in a "nice" way.
However, considering he killed 2+1 people in cold blood, I'd rather he just die and go to hell.
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What if MP and Derek both came back?
Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. :lol
I like the 3 first albums with MM much more than the last 3 with MP.
I also think MP has done a lot of good albums after the split but Psycotic Symphony is not one of them.
MP needs good songwriters like Neal Morse to work with.
I don't want MP back unless MM quits and all of DT wants him back. DS is a big no from me.
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DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard. With the SOA debacle I think he turned a lot of opinions against him.
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DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.
Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)
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What if MP and Derek both came back?
Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. :lol
I like the 3 first albums with MM much more than the last 3 with MP.
I also think MP has done a lot of good albums after the split but Psycotic Symphony is not one of them.
MP needs good songwriters like Neal Morse to work with.
I don't want MP back unless MM quits and all of DT wants him back. DS is a big no from me.
Um...did my post not register on your joke meter? :loser:
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DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.
Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)
The worst I remember hearing about DS was "he just wasn't the right fit for DT", and over time FII has slowly crept up in people's rankings from what I could tell on DTF. Combine that with Planet X and Black Country Communion, and I would definitely say that DS was pretty well-regarded, at least here.
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Not sure how well regarded he was, but I think he was definitely well respected, both for his grace he continued to show DT after they canned him, and for seemingly turning himself from a shlock rock side man to a progressive musician. I think people appreciated that.
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I really like Derek's playing. Love that lead tone on the Korg. I think DT pushed Derek to become the musician he is now. Take a listen to his post-DT work and you'll see what I mean. I've always thought that Jordan was a better fit for DT, even when they had him fill in for a show after Kevin Moore left. It just wasn't the right time. Derek-era DT is good stuff.
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I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess. Derek does have a cool lead sound but that's about it for me, not a fan of his writing, even on the DT stuff I found his playing uninteresting apart from the solo in Trial Of Tears and the intro to Lines In The Sand. Sometimes I found it actually detracted from the song as it didn't fit like in Peruvian Skies when he is playing over the main riff and I think it sounds better before the keyboards join in. I did buy the first Planet X album after he left DT but just found it to be tuneless noodling, just my opinion of course.
I will say though that the opening track on the SOA album, God Of The Sun, does have some really nice playing and good melodies and that was a solo composition by him I think so I will give him props for that. I quite enjoyed the album on the whole and feel that they do have some promise assuming they make it to album 2, 3 etc.
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I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess. Derek does have a cool lead sound but that's about it for me, not a fan of his writing, even on the DT stuff I found his playing uninteresting apart from the solo in Trial Of Tears and the intro to Lines In The Sand. Sometimes I found it actually detracted from the song as it didn't fit like in Peruvian Skies when he is playing over the main riff and I think it sounds better before the keyboards join in. I did buy the first Planet X album after he left DT but just found it to be tuneless noodling, just my opinion of course.
While I agree to an extent, Some of Derek's solo albums have a lot of great stuff. Maybe check out Oceana...the very first Planet X album, as in the one actually called Planet X, has 1 or 2 cool tracks on it, but the rest I can't even remember to be honest. I do like Day in the Sun though and Derek has used melodies from that song during his solo spots for years.
The thing is, a lot of his solo albums are more like guitar albums. The guitar playing is usually more memorable than anything Derek does, as he is in a largely supportive role with the occasional solo here and there. Some of the albums are very diverse as they include a variety of guitarists and styles, so there's usually something for everyone, but I could probably compile all the best stuff into one double album and never miss the rest.
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It's funny because I absolutely love FII but always felt like Derek wasn't prog enough for DT. I got into DT through their more metal elements and my appreciation for the proggier stuff came later. On that same token, I sometimes feel Jordan is too prog but thankfully Petrucci does a good job of holding him back and the end result turns out awesome. Jordan's solo stuff just doesn't hit me. Not only have I not heard anything that strikes me but the recording quality always seems sort of lacking.
Derek's solo/Planet X stuff is the opposite. The songs have the perfect blend of prog/metal and just plain sound great.
A member on here just sold me some of that stuff and it was a great time to get reintroduced to Derek's music now that his jerkishness in SOA has stopped and worn off. Considering one of the best songs on Psychotic Symphony was solely written by Derek shows he's got a lot to offer. Sadly that album has some big misses too so he's not infallible.
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I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.
This. DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT. At least not in the long term. However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.
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With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.
I mostly agree. But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band.
True, but either way I still think people kind of worship him in an unhealthy way. I'm a big fan of what he brought to DT, but it's kinda funny how there are still people who refuse to acknowledge they have had other keyboard players for the past 25 years :lol
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I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.
This. DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT. At least not in the long term. However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.
I don't know. You can say the same thing about KM, that he would never have been a fit in the long term. But, they produced several classics with him in the band, so maybe "being a good fit" isn't a good predictor of what works in a band and what doesn't. I actually think there's a danger of being "too little friction", where everybody is on the same wavelength and there's no cross-challenging anymore.
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How was KM not a good fit in the long term? I think everybody in the band felt that he was a good fit. He just decided he did not want to be a full-time musician.
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Basically all of Kevin's post DT stuff is miles from DT's style.
That's not to say that the two styles couldn't work together to make interesting stuff, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think that the direction Kevin was going musically really didn't fit with the way DT was going.
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That isn't really relevant at all to what KM played in DT. Have you heard Jordan's stuff outside of DT? I think it is safe to say that that is also "miles from DT's style." Does that mean Jordan isn't a good fit? It is what he plays in the band that matters.
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How was KM not a good fit in the long term? I think everybody in the band felt that he was a good fit. He just decided he did not want to be a full-time musician.
I think KM would have been a great producer in the DT camp if he had stayed. Although not sure if he would have survived the clashing with MP in the longer run if he was involved in producing the album. I would like to believe he would have pushed the restraint in some DT songs.
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The thing is, a lot of his solo albums are more like guitar albums. The guitar playing is usually more memorable than anything Derek does, as he is in a largely supportive role with the occasional solo here and there. Some of the albums are very diverse as they include a variety of guitarists and styles, so there's usually something for everyone, but I could probably compile all the best stuff into one double album and never miss the rest.
To me, Derek writes like a guitarist. Many of his biggest influences are guitarists, especially Eddie Van Halen and Allan Holdsworth. It shows in his solos.
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I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.
This. DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT. At least not in the long term. However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.
I don't know. You can say the same thing about KM, that he would never have been a fit in the long term. But, they produced several classics with him in the band, so maybe "being a good fit" isn't a good predictor of what works in a band and what doesn't. I actually think there's a danger of being "too little friction", where everybody is on the same wavelength and there's no cross-challenging anymore.
I think you're missing the point. They already wanted JR but he was unavailable. DS was just the interim guy until JR became available. I'm pretty sure they knew JR was a better fit even before he eventually joined the band. The only reason KM wasn't a fit is cause he didn't want to be there any longer.
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Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".
It's like with the DT audition to replace Portnoy - Minneman auditioned, he didn't get the gig, Jordan liked him and made a collaboration with him. Should Mangini leave the band of his own accord and Minneman be willing to join, I guess we could hardly said that Mangini was a stand-in for Minneman (different situations, I know, it was just to make an example).
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Never gonna happen. I can't be arsed to look through all four pages to see if this article has been posted: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/derek_sherinian_why_i_was_fired_from_dream_theater.html
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DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.
Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)
The worst I remember hearing about DS was "he just wasn't the right fit for DT", and over time FII has slowly crept up in people's rankings from what I could tell on DTF. Combine that with Planet X and Black Country Communion, and I would definitely say that DS was pretty well-regarded, at least here.
That's always been my assessment. Still haven't changed my opinion of Anna Lee though. Far and away my least favorite Dream Theater song until Systematic Chaos came around.
Loved Planet X right away too, but if we are to believe his recent comments that was a reaction and not the kind of music he wanted to play. Which for me is a shame because I love that stuff.
Less a fan of his work over he last 10 years or so, but it seems that's the kind of music he wants to make so he's still living his dream.
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Not sure how well regarded he was, but I think he was definitely well respected, both for his grace he continued to show DT after they canned him, and for seemingly turning himself from a shlock rock side man to a progressive musician. I think people appreciated that.
Ironically, he did that after he left Dream Theater.
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With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.
I mostly agree. But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band.
True, but either way I still think people kind of worship him in an unhealthy way. I'm a big fan of what he brought to DT, but it's kinda funny how there are still people who refuse to acknowledge they have had other keyboard players for the past 25 years :lol
It's not just the keyboard player either!
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That isn't really relevant at all to what KM played in DT. Have you heard Jordan's stuff outside of DT? I think it is safe to say that that is also "miles from DT's style." Does that mean Jordan isn't a good fit? It is what he plays in the band that matters.
It's relevant if he really had no interest in doing that at all.
It could have been a major reason why he left or just another contributing factor. Jordan seems a lot more open to musical style than Kevin was/is.
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I really love Derek's style, and contributions to DT. He's much more of a rock keyboardist than the JR style of prog-rock keyboardist. Saying that, I'm glad he was a small part of their history, and has his own small era. They wouldn't have been able to create what they have since then, without Jordan. But Derek did do some great stuff. I love his writing on songs like Lines in the Sand, Hell's Kitchen, and Anna Lee.
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Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".
No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.
It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"
Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.
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Derek had some good contributions. His I like live with the band is their cover of Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding, they made that song rock. Studio has to either be Anna Lee, Trial of Tears, and Where Are You Now?.
What they were during his time with them was interesting. Although, fun looking, it was a time of struggle for the band. Having to, in a sense, rediscover the band, find the new direction the band must take. And once they did, LTE played a major part in it I feel (although it wasn't intentional LTE was going to include the members it did, I wish it was how MP intended it to be), they got JR to join and came back with a bang.
Although it was short, I feel Derek was the necessary person they needed to help them continue on as a band. He brought a personality that is energetic, watching him on Five Years In A Livetime shows this. Yet the music they made was either hard rocking or Moody.
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Although it was short, I feel Derek was the necessary person they needed to help them continue on as a band. He brought a personality that is energetic, watching him on Five Years In A Livetime shows this. Yet the music they made was either hard rocking or Moody.
Hadn't considered this before.
Like it or not (and I didn't) it may have been a necessary step.
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Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".
No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.
It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"
Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.
It’s possible of course but I seem to remember Portnoy saying that Sherinian was not a great fit anyway, regardless of Jordan’s change of heart. They weren’t keen on his onstage persona with the lava lamps and rockstar image. I think things would likely have come to a head at some point. I think Mike said something along the lines of DS being more of a Van Halen/Kiss style guy and not a prog guy.
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Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".
No, we can be sure - what you describe is what happened. When they first got together to do LTE, it was for MP to be able to work with other musicians, and for him to fulfill what he had not been able to do in DT: to work with JR or Jens Johanson (of Stratovarius, who had also auditioned at the same time JR did - obviously JR was available at that time while Jens was not). When none of the guitarists that were on MP's dream list were available/interested for the small slot of time they had to do the album, MP's wife suggested JP.
It was only while they were working on the second LTE album that JP and MP started talking about how they really loved the chemistry they had with JR and how well it would work in DT that they finally approached him and asked the (then) hypothetical question of "how would you respond if we were to ask you to join the band now?"
Had the LTE albums never happened, it's quite possible DS would still be DT's keyboardist today.
It’s possible of course but I seem to remember Portnoy saying that Sherinian was not a great fit anyway, regardless of Jordan’s change of heart. They weren’t keen on his onstage persona with the lava lamps and rockstar image. I think things would likely have come to a head at some point. I think Mike said something along the lines of DS being more of a Van Halen/Kiss style guy and not a prog guy.
MP did make a comment that DS didn't quite fit in with the rest of the guys because of his onstage persona, and because he was the only single guy in the band; so his priorities were somewhat different than the other guys. But it never had anything to do with the music, which was the most important thing. And if you look at the way DS presented himself live before Touring Into Infinity, as well as since then, you'll see the shag carpet, lava lamps, sunglasses and "rockstar" clothes are gone - so it seems that those were just a temporary thing, not unlike JP's awful stage clothes during the Octavarium tour. Had those things been long term and therefore a real issue, I'm sure the band would've addressed them in much the same manner as they spoke with JL following the end of World Tourbulence. Whether DS would've responded positively to such a chat or not is debatable, but unless he got itchy feet to go elsewhere and/or didn't like the constrains of the band, I'd imagine he'd still be in the band if not for what happened with LTE.
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Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.
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Another double album, that's for sure. No amount of keyboardists and drummers can keep just to one album. I'd expect at least 5 instrumentals, too :lol
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Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.
The thing is, I don't really think the way he dressed, decorated his part of the stage, etc. was being himself, but trying to strike a different style now that he was firmly within the band. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans, since KM had been so revered within the band before him, and there's no way he could've ever measured up to him.
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he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans,
Could have been accomplished by playing better music :D
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he commented that he specifically went a bit over the top to get a reaction from the fans,
Could have been accomplished by playing better music :D
Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnn.
Derek doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who take well to what basically would have been a "don't be yourself, but conform to fit in better" kind of conversation.
If I remember, in the commentary for 5YIALT, Petrucci did try talking to him about how out of place his stage decorations were and Derek responded, "Then let's do it to the whole stage," and for a while the lava lamps were expanded. Been a while since I listened to it but that's my recollection.
So Kev, I don't think you're far off the mark.
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I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.
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Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".
It wasn't about JR changing his mind or being willing to join. JR was unavailable (had other commitments) when they asked him to join before they settled with DS.
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I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.
At the time I didn't like it at all. I saw it as the beginning of the end (and from what we found out later that was pretty close to the truth.)
It seemed totally out of character for the band at that point. But as soon as Jordan joined I became able to enjoy that period knowing it wouldn't continue. Still don't listen to the band live much during this period although I did pull Once In A LiveTime off of the shelf last weekend.
Some cool moments on that record, but there are a lot more than make me cringe. This may be the only period in Dream Theater's history where I'd prefer the studio recordings over the live material.
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I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.
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I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.
Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.
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I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.
Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.
Yeah! It feels like a 70s live album.
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I still really like Once in a LIVEtime for what it is.
Me too. It's raw, energetic and i really enjoy it. It feels like a proper live album.
Pretty much my feelings about Once in a Livetime. I just wished the full show would have been released.
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I'm sure the label didn't allow it at the time (Scotty may correct me on this and I appreciate that.) OIALT was the first DT album I've ever listened to as a child btw. (I was 8 at the time. Been a fan for 20 years now and counting.) Back on topic: Either one rejoning wouldn't be a good thing at all. (IMHO) Total step back for the band. (again IMHO, technically speaking and musically speaking)
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There are some fantastic moments on OIALT. Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.
But it’s a tough listen. Overall, I would say it’s JLB’s worst performance on an official live release. He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later. It would have made a big difference. But, it is what it is.
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There are some fantastic moments on OIALT. Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.
But it’s a tough listen. Overall, I would say it’s JLB’s worst performance on an official live release. He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later. It would have made a big difference. But, it is what it is.
I read somewhere a long time ago that LaBrie had a cold and that explains some of the vocal issues.
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That may be. I can't remember. But it isn't the only time on the tour that he struggled. I am quick to defend James, but there were times on that tour that were absolutely some of the lowest vocal points in history for this band. The L.A. show from that tour makes the Paris OIALT show sound like a vocal tour de force by comparison.
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I remember being so psyched about DT finally releasing a live album. But man, I could not believe the vocals. I had seen DT a number of times by that point and had quite a few boots, but I never heard that before.
Oh, and that LA show told me one and only one thing. That all was not well in the DT camp. The vocals were so bad, I assumed MP was trying to embarrass James by releasing it on Ytsejam. I remember hearing it for the first time that James cannot be happy that this is out.
Honestly, I rarely if ever listen to any FII era shows. It really is the DT's gawky preteen years.
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Not having heard or bought Once in A Livetime (kind of funny since I'm a big big fan of the band) I cringe at Your Majesty, the live version on the DT book cd.
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My biggest issue with OIALT is actually the mic dropping out on james frequently.
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Yes, very much so.
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I remember being so psyched about DT finally releasing a live album. But man, I could not believe the vocals. I had seen DT a number of times by that point and had quite a few boots, but I never heard that before.
Oh, and that LA show told me one and only one thing. That all was not well in the DT camp. The vocals were so bad, I assumed MP was trying to embarrass James by releasing it on Ytsejam. I remember hearing it for the first time that James cannot be happy that this is out.
Honestly, I rarely if ever listen to any FII era shows. It really is the DT's gawky preteen years.
Nice. So true.
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There are some fantastic moments on OIALT. Peruvian Skies in particular is EXCELLENT on that album.
But it’s a tough listen. Overall, I would say it’s JLB’s worst performance on an official live release. He had a very rough night, and I almost wish he would have been allowed to do a couple of touch ups later. It would have made a big difference. But, it is what it is.
Exactly this, some cool moments, love the Freebird solo at the end of Take The Time (didn't actually know that's what it was at the time but I've learned since) but don't enjoy the actual song because of the vocals. Haven't listened to it for so long that I can't remember a lot of it or whether James is ok on some songs. Wasn't keen on the medley thing either. Will give it another listen at some point.
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I love Once in a Livetime. It's raw, energetic, pumps me up a lot. It was the 2nd DT album I ever bought. There's a few other live albums that make me feel this way: Fates Warning Still Life and Live in Athens; and Evergrey's A Night to Remember. I deeply enjoy the FII era and the live official bootlegs are in constant rotation. The thing is, subsequent DT live albums sound overly produced (even Score to some degree but not as much). I just like the small but energetic audience and ambiance in live records. Live in Luna Park sounds very artificial as well as Breaking the Fourth Wall, even though the setlists are perfect. Even though I love Live at Budokan, I do think it suffers a lot from the "audio perfection" but also, I think it came out like that because of the Japanese audience. LSNFY would be my 2nd favorite DT live album.
A friend of mine gave me Images and Words (cassette) and I was living in Mexico at that time. When I went to the record stores, I had only seen Once in a Livetime at the shelves. So I got it and spent hours and hours listening to it. But also spent hours and hours trying to hunt down the previous albums. I spent hours dissecting the album artwork trying to associate it with the songs (for whatever reason, I was young LOL). I have a lot of fond memories of this live album. Also, love the artwork. I believe it's a very underrated artwork in the DT collection.
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I just put on OIALT, and ... who sings the rap with MP at the beginning TTT? Derek?
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I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.
Hear hear. Loved the DS era live shows.
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I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.
I never saw DT live until the TOT tour so can't speak from personal experience. What do you feel it was about their live shows prior to this time that necessitated a "loosening up?"
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I for one very much enjoyed the antics that came with DS. The band badly needed an injection of tongue-in-cheek, and DS had that. The lava lamps and the TV, Nightmare Cinema, while all those were a bit haphazard, it all loosened them up a bit.
I never saw DT live until the TOT tour so can't speak from personal experience. What do you feel it was about their live shows prior to this time that necessitated a "loosening up?"
Good question. I saw DT thrice with Kevin Moore and once with Derek while he was still a "trial member" of the band (12/8/94). I never saw DT with DS as a "full member," so I don't really have a basis for comparison, but I never felt that "[t]he band badly needed [or even needed in the slightest] an injection of tongue-in-cheek" or to be "loosened up."
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part. I felt Derek's influence gave them a bit of a "we're actually having fun on stage".
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.
Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all. I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.
Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all. I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).
Yea, I've only seen a handful of videos from those days, but they were way more physical than now. In fact, I'd say they've been becoming less and less active on stage as time goes by. Minus JR (oddly), they mostly just stand there and make faces.
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Hey! They are old gang now. Let 'em rest on the stage.
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Hey! They are old gang now. Let 'em rest on the stage.
heh, that's why I said JR was odd in that, since he's the oldest and has one of the two traditionally static positions on stage.
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.
Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all. I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).
Yea, I've only seen a handful of videos from those days, but they were way more physical than now. In fact, I'd say they've been becoming less and less active on stage as time goes by. Minus JR (oddly), they mostly just stand there and make faces.
I don't know, for me there definitely was an arc to it. Some time around the time they turned more metal they also cranked up the stage antics a bit, but before that there was always a bit of a "Berklee recital" aspect to their concerts.
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.
Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all. I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).
Yea, I've only seen a handful of videos from those days, but they were way more physical than now. In fact, I'd say they've been becoming less and less active on stage as time goes by. Minus JR (oddly), they mostly just stand there and make faces.
I don't know, for me there definitely was an arc to it. Some time around the time they turned more metal they also cranked up the stage antics a bit, but before that there was always a bit of a "Berklee recital" aspect to their concerts.
Maybe you've seen more than I have. And this is all relative, since DT are pretty tame compared to most bands, but FOR them, they seemed pretty active back in the day. I dunno. I just remember JM running around a lot more, JLB running around a lot more, and JP....well he's always been pretty tame.
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They were incredibly static on stage in those days, each member barely moving from their spot on stage. James also didn't interact with the crowd at all for the most part.
Subject to the limitations imposed by small stages at a couple places where I saw them on the I&W tour, this wasn't my experience at all. I think there's a lot of video that shows more movement back then than they've done at any point in the last 20 years -- particularly in the case of John Myung (and obviously, KM and MP were anchored, so we're only talking about JLB, JM and JP).
Yea, I've only seen a handful of videos from those days, but they were way more physical than now. In fact, I'd say they've been becoming less and less active on stage as time goes by. Minus JR (oddly), they mostly just stand there and make faces.
I don't know, for me there definitely was an arc to it. Some time around the time they turned more metal they also cranked up the stage antics a bit, but before that there was always a bit of a "Berklee recital" aspect to their concerts.
Maybe you've seen more than I have. And this is all relative, since DT are pretty tame compared to most bands, but FOR them, they seemed pretty active back in the day. I dunno. I just remember JM running around a lot more, JLB running around a lot more, and JP....well he's always been pretty tame.
Given his history of falling off the stage, who can blame him?!
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(https://78.media.tumblr.com/95bd86fabaa1d8369e94041855f9617b/tumblr_n1eretIgFb1re6bwmo1_400.gif)
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I was gonna find that gif too but got too lazy. First thing I thought of