- " The Astonishing " - One Year -- er, EIGHT YEARS On.

[Ninjabait]

Also, as an aside, I was looking at ratings on rym and The Astonishing has probably the weirdest one I've seen so far. Most albums have a definite "curve" with a peak, or a "line" in the case of the extremely popular or unpopular albums. The Astonishing? It's just a freakin brick. Almost all the ratings are perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

It really perfectly illustrates the general reaction to the album: that no one can agree on whether it's great, good, okay, bad, or terrible. Just thought that was funny

[darkshade]

I filed TA under 'John Petrucci & Jordan Rudess' on iTunes. I renamed the album "An Eternity With..."

... jk

I've recently been bitten by the DT bug somehow, and I've been cherry picking DT albums the past week or two, haven't listened to any Mangini era albums yet, might throw on TA first once I feel ready.

I haven't listened to this album in some time. 3-4 times in 2016, I think, then only maybe once in 2017. I recall enjoying the first few tracks, I really enjoy the Dystopian Overture. After 'The Answer' it's all blur, except JP's tight little Flower Kings-eqsue solo in When Your Time Has Come, and he has a great solo in A New Beginning, I believe, yes?
Then disc 2 is all a blur until Our New World.

The last two Mangini albums haven't done it for me, and as much as I enjoy ADTOE, I'd erase all 3 albums like they never happened for a new DT album with MP.

[darkshade]

So I listened to disc 1, and I've come to the conclusion that the album drops off after When Your Time Has Come. Up to that point, I enjoyed it, though I'm not a huge fan of A Better Life, plus it was a missed opportunity to lead the song out of the tempo of the marching steps. Those first 8 tracks contain strong material, but even then I think some more work could have went into the tunes, like The Gift Of Music, A Better Life, and Lord Nafarius, but overall a solid suite of music but still doesn't eclipse what's been done before.

Onward, I never got into Three Days, and it didn't do much for me, but it's OK. A Life Left Behind has cool parts but is very disjointed, and I was just waiting for A New Beginning to start at some point. Great solo, it's too bad they cut it short with a fade out, it's one of the best moments of the album. The rest of disc 2*edited I mean disc 1, is still a whole chunk of music with little variation in color, and kind of blurs together to me, similar to DT12 from tracks 5-8, imo.

I'm saving disc 2 for later.

[Bertie_Wooster]

Yesterday I played "Ravenskill" for the 104th time.

[gzarruk]

Yesterday I played "Ravenskill" for the 104th time.

A very cool song indeed! I love when the heavy riff starts, with the bell sounds on the keyboard. It reminds me of a section on Finally Free.

[KevShmev]

So I listened to disc 1, and I've come to the conclusion that the album drops off after When Your Time Has Come. Up to that point, I enjoyed it, though I'm not a huge fan of A Better Life, plus it was a missed opportunity to lead the song out of the tempo of the marching steps. Those first 8 tracks contain strong material, but even then I think some more work could have went into the tunes, like The Gift Of Music, A Better Life, and Lord Nafarius, but overall a solid suite of music but still doesn't eclipse what's been done before.

Onward, I never got into Three Days, and it didn't do much for me, but it's OK. A Life Left Behind has cool parts but is very disjointed, and I was just waiting for A New Beginning to start at some point. Great solo, it's too bad they cut it short with a fade out, it's one of the best moments of the album. The rest of disc 2*edited I mean disc 1, is still a whole chunk of music with little variation in color, and kind of blurs together to me, similar to DT12 from tracks 5-8, imo.

I'm saving disc 2 for later.

While I do not agree with a lot of what you said, I totally agree with the bolded.  There are only a few songs from Disc 1 I frequently skip and that is one of them.  A Life Left Behind has a lot of cool things going on, but they just don't seem to come together enough to make me want to listen.

[RoeDent]

Giving this another spin this evening. Time for some positive thoughts:

- I want to learn to play the acoustic guitar intro to Heaven's Cove. It's stunning, and it's a frequent earworm of mine. I also love its appearance in Dystopian Overture, with JR's majestic piano arpeggios.

- Amazingly, over two years on, I've only just realised that the string part at 3:58 of Act of Faythe (immediately after "I've found my way") is the same as "We have come to hear him sing" from A Savior in the Square.

- The tango bit in Lord Nafaryus. Just YES! *dances along*

That is all. Still one of my favourite things DT have ever done. *leaves thread before inevitable trampling of enthusiastically conveyed and sincere opinions*

[darkshade]

Finishing up disc 2 now. Seems like it just picks up where disc 1 left off, lots of ideas and repeated themes all mashed together, with little in the way of SONGS. The Path That Divides is nice and heavy and thrashy, very needed refreshment especially if listening to the entire album in one sitting. Heaven's Cove is cool too, with the choir sounds it reminds me of really old Disney movies like Bambi. Hymn Of A Thousand Voices is probably the best ballad on the album, and would stick out more if the album wasn't loaded with so many more ballads. Our New World is the best song on disc 2, imo, with it's anthem feel and catchy melody. The closing title track feels underwhelming, it could have done more, I mean, there is still room on the second disc... but even then, I feel like I've heard all the themes more than enough before disc 2 even starts.

Overall the shorter run time helps the 2nd disc, but a majority of the stronger material is on disc 1. However, I feel like even the best tunes on this album could have used more work, more time to settle. I really think this is a 50 minute album stretched out to over 2 hours, too. I mean, I love Neal Morse, and he reprises themes a lot in his albums, but even he doesn't bash the listener over the head with the main themes of his albums like Petrucci, Rudess, and the rest of Dream Theater do in The Astonishing. I'll resort to my 50-something minute playlist of the best of TA from here on out.

[The Walrus]

The solo in A New Beginning is still top 10 Dream Theater solos ever. Lord, that is some tasty stuff. 

Overall the shorter run time helps the 2nd disc, but a majority of the stronger material is on disc 1. However, I feel like even the best tunes on this album could have used more work, more time to settle. I really think this is a 50 minute album stretched out to over 2 hours, too. I mean, I love Neal Morse, and he reprises themes a lot in his albums, but even he doesn't bash the listener over the head with the main themes of his albums like Petrucci, Rudess, and the rest of Dream Theater do in The Astonishing. I'll resort to my 50-something minute playlist of the best of TA from here on out.

Could you elaborate? I don't feel at all like I'm being bashed over the head with the recurring motifs..

[darkshade]

The solo in A New Beginning is still top 10 Dream Theater solos ever. Lord, that is some tasty stuff. 

Overall the shorter run time helps the 2nd disc, but a majority of the stronger material is on disc 1. However, I feel like even the best tunes on this album could have used more work, more time to settle. I really think this is a 50 minute album stretched out to over 2 hours, too. I mean, I love Neal Morse, and he reprises themes a lot in his albums, but even he doesn't bash the listener over the head with the main themes of his albums like Petrucci, Rudess, and the rest of Dream Theater do in The Astonishing. I'll resort to my 50-something minute playlist of the best of TA from here on out.

Could you elaborate? I don't feel at all like I'm being bashed over the head with the recurring motifs..

I felt like most of the main themes of the album reappeared so much they lost some of their power. Again, this goes back to my feeling that the album is very bloated. I think what the band tried to do in 2+ hours is achieved, minus vocals, with Dystopian Overture in 5 minutes.

I also feel like the 2nd disc doesn't hold up well on its own, and both discs need to be listened to in full to appreciate everything that's going on.

[Lethean]

Giving this another spin this evening. Time for some positive thoughts:

- I want to learn to play the acoustic guitar intro to Heaven's Cove. It's stunning, and it's a frequent earworm of mine. I also love its appearance in Dystopian Overture, with JR's majestic piano arpeggios.

- Amazingly, over two years on, I've only just realised that the string part at 3:58 of Act of Faythe (immediately after "I've found my way") is the same as "We have come to hear him sing" from A Savior in the Square.

- The tango bit in Lord Nafaryus. Just YES! *dances along*

That is all. Still one of my favourite things DT have ever done. *leaves thread before inevitable trampling of enthusiastically conveyed and sincere opinions*

You called it.

I don't believe I noticed the part you're talking about in Act of Faythe either.  Will have to check it out.  The album is full of cool stuff like that.

[KevShmev]

I also feel like the 2nd disc doesn't hold up well on its own, and both discs need to be listened to in full to appreciate everything that's going on.

Well, yeah, it's a concept album, so that shouldn't be surprising.  That would be like watching a movie and saying, "This part of it doesn't hold up unless you watch the whole film."  It is supposed to be listened to in full.

[TAC]

As with a lot of stories, there's so much time in the first half with character and story introduction, whereas the second half is just story.

[darkshade]

I also feel like the 2nd disc doesn't hold up well on its own, and both discs need to be listened to in full to appreciate everything that's going on.

Well, yeah, it's a concept album, so that shouldn't be surprising.  That would be like watching a movie and saying, "This part of it doesn't hold up unless you watch the whole film."  It is supposed to be listened to in full.

I know but it's just feels so loooong, and I can sit through The Flower Kings longest double albums and 3 hour long Phish and Grateful Dead concerts. I have had that feeling of 'when will this be over?' multiple times throughout every time I've listened to the album in full, either in one sitting, or split into discs. I chalked it up to not being in a Dream Theater mood for some time since after ADTOE came out, but this time I listened in the middle of a current DT binge; and while I enjoy a lot of the tunes more than ever, still hold similar feelings on TA that I did when the album came out. It's the worst Dream Theater album for me, along with DT12. Doesn't mean I hate the albums, but I can't shake the fact that the true DT sound is MP's fat sound behind JP's guitar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bertie_Wooster]

The solo in A New Beginning is still top 10 Dream Theater solos ever. Lord, that is some tasty stuff. 

Overall the shorter run time helps the 2nd disc, but a majority of the stronger material is on disc 1. However, I feel like even the best tunes on this album could have used more work, more time to settle. I really think this is a 50 minute album stretched out to over 2 hours, too. I mean, I love Neal Morse, and he reprises themes a lot in his albums, but even he doesn't bash the listener over the head with the main themes of his albums like Petrucci, Rudess, and the rest of Dream Theater do in The Astonishing. I'll resort to my 50-something minute playlist of the best of TA from here on out.

Could you elaborate? I don't feel at all like I'm being bashed over the head with the recurring motifs..

I felt like most of the main themes of the album reappeared so much they lost some of their power. Again, this goes back to my feeling that the album is very bloated. I think what the band tried to do in 2+ hours is achieved, minus vocals, with Dystopian Overture in 5 minutes.

I also feel like the 2nd disc doesn't hold up well on its own, and both discs need to be listened to in full to appreciate everything that's going on.

So that is why Awake is such a terrible album. 🧐

[KevShmev]

I know but it's just feels so loooong, and I can sit through The Flower Kings longest double albums and 3 hour long Phish and Grateful Dead concerts. I have had that feeling of 'when will this be over?' multiple times throughout every time I've listened to the album in full, either in one sitting, or split into discs. I chalked it up to not being in a Dream Theater mood for some time since after ADTOE came out, but this time I listened in the middle of a current DT binge; and while I enjoy a lot of the tunes more than ever, still hold similar feelings on TA that I did when the album came out. It's the worst Dream Theater album for me, along with DT12. Doesn't mean I hate the albums, but I can't shake the fact that the true DT sound is MP's fat sound behind JP's guitar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How can you not shake a fact that isn't an actual fact?  That has to defy some kind of logic.

[bosk1]

So I listened to disc 1, and I've come to the conclusion that the album drops off after When Your Time Has Come. Up to that point, I enjoyed it, though I'm not a huge fan of A Better Life, plus it was a missed opportunity to lead the song out of the tempo of the marching steps. Those first 8 tracks contain strong material, but even then I think some more work could have went into the tunes, like The Gift Of Music, A Better Life, and Lord Nafarius, but overall a solid suite of music but still doesn't eclipse what's been done before.

I have to disagree.  To me, far and away the strongest run of songs on the album comes toward the end of side 1, with Ravenskill, Chosen, A Tempting Offer, and The X Aspect.  And A New Beginning isn't too shabby either.  In fact, that may be one of my favorite runs of songs in DT's whole catalog. 

But that said, I do kind of get what you are saying because, to me, it does feel like there is a dropoff in energy in the middle part of the album from Act of Faythe through A Life Left Behind.  Not that there is anything "bad" about that part of the album.  But it does go from feeling more "in your face" to being background music for me at times, with me re-engaging more for the final third of the disk. 

[Chino]

I think Chosen is one of DT's best songs across their entire catalog, not just on TA.

[bosk1]

Yup.  It's a pretty tasty track.

[KevShmev]

A moment which never seems to get talked about might be my favorite one on the entire album: when the "Road to Revolution" chorus is reprised a little over a minute into 2285 Entr'acte with the strings. I still get goosebumps every time I hear that part.  Love it.

[bosk1]

Interestingly, I really love that part as well.  And I say "interestingly" because Road To Revolution is nowhere near my top songs on the album.  But that reprise is REALLY cool.

[KevShmev]

While I like both a lot, neither of those songs is among my favorites, but that reprise is just way too awesome.

[gzarruk]

TA is just so good that there's a lot of cool moments like that through both discs. Even if you aren't the biggest fan of the album, you can still find something you can enjoy.

[Peter Mc]

So I listened to disc 1, and I've come to the conclusion that the album drops off after When Your Time Has Come. Up to that point, I enjoyed it, though I'm not a huge fan of A Better Life, plus it was a missed opportunity to lead the song out of the tempo of the marching steps. Those first 8 tracks contain strong material, but even then I think some more work could have went into the tunes, like The Gift Of Music, A Better Life, and Lord Nafarius, but overall a solid suite of music but still doesn't eclipse what's been done before.

I have to disagree.  To me, far and away the strongest run of songs on the album comes toward the end of side 1, with Ravenskill, Chosen, A Tempting Offer, and The X Aspect.  And A New Beginning isn't too shabby either.  In fact, that may be one of my favorite runs of songs in DT's whole catalog. 

But that said, I do kind of get what you are saying because, to me, it does feel like there is a dropoff in energy in the middle part of the album from Act of Faythe through A Life Left Behind.  Not that there is anything "bad" about that part of the album.  But it does go from feeling more "in your face" to being background music for me at times, with me re-engaging more for the final third of the disk.

Been listening to the album for the first time in ages over the last couple of days and really enjoying it.  Totally agree with you about the latter part of disc one as well except I would include A Life Left Behind in that run, some really great stuff.  I always liked most of disc two as well.  Only dip for me was the middle of disc one.

[cramx3]

A moment which never seems to get talked about might be my favorite one on the entire album: when the "Road to Revolution" chorus is reprised a little over a minute into 2285 Entr'acte with the strings. I still get goosebumps every time I hear that part.  Love it.

YES, love this.  I think this is why I like this instrumental so much, because that reprise gives me such a huge smile.

[TAC]

Huh. I skip the Entr'acte every time. Didn't make my Astonishing single CD.

[bosk1]

I'm not much of an instrumental guy, and, with a few exceptions, generally rank the instrumentals down near the bottom on their respective albums.  But I love Entr'acte.  It sets the stage beautifully for Moment of Betrayal.  I haven't made a single CD, so I'm not sure how the length would work out for the songs I really would want on there.  If I did, I would certainly try my best to keep Entr'acte on there if I could make it fit.

Without calculating whether it would all fit due to track lengths, my list would be something like:
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Our New World
Astonishing

Not sure if that all fits, but that's about how I would do it.  And, yes, I realize that is VERY Act I heavy.  But I like Act I a LOT more than Act II.

[vtgrad]

After listening to TA... listening to something else (been a BTBAM kick for the past few months... how about Automata)... and coming back to TA over these two years, I have to say that every time I come back, I like it more and more.  Honestly, I listen the the second disc almost exclusively to the detriment of the first disc (I know that's not the norm for most here, but it's where I sit).

I think it solid from start to finish and I hear all of their "eras" in the album.  I still love it!  I applaud them for having fun with it, I guess because I have fun with it.

[TAC]

I hear all of their "eras" in the album.   

Yeah, you're right.

[cramx3]

Yea, this album really is a gem and has held up well over time even when I thought I might of over listened, when I come back, it's still great.

[mikeyd23]

Yea, this album really is a gem and has held up well over time even when I thought I might of over listened, when I come back, it's still great.

I totally agree. When I come back TA I'm usually pleasantly surprised with how much I continue to enjoy it and continue to notice things I hadn't before.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Without calculating whether it would all fit due to track lengths, my list would be something like:
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Our New World
Astonishing

Not sure if that all fits, but that's about how I would do it.

67:50 

But no Path That Divides?

[TAC]

My Astonishing Abridged..68 minutes

The Gift Of Music
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior In The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act Of Faythe
Three Days
Ravenskill
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
Moment Of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Hymn Of A Thousand Voices


To me, I&W is the Holy Grail, but I'd put my Astonishing Abridged up against anything else in their discography.

[KevShmev]

But no Path That Divides?

Good song, but middle of the pack at best on that record.

If I had to condense it down to 1 CD, I would go with:

Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Ravenskill
Chosen
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
The Road to Revolution
2285 Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Code
Whispers on the Wind
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World

[Ben_Jamin]

Thought I'd bring this conversation into the appropriate thread

Theresa would've been perfect i think for Faythe.

But it was just a thought I had.

I fucking love the album immensely. Love James' vocals and his different styles for each character. Wish we got more Arabelle dialogue though, he used his nice warm somber style for her. And I find the buildup to "My Music Player" beautiful with JPs run. I dont have any problem with that lyric. I mean how else you gonna represent Faythes greatest gift of all.

I like the Arabelle voice too.    And I agree with you about the music player.  I thought it was kinda cheesy the first time I listened to it, and I get why people don't like it, but it does make sense.

It's an integral part of the entire story. Without it Faythe wouldn't have known music and its beauty, power, she likely only knew NOMAC music. She wouldn't then have fallen in love with Gabriel, Nefaryus wouldn't have got upset and retaliate with war.