- " The Astonishing " - One Year -- er, EIGHT YEARS On.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I hear you.  I can't really disagree.  But at the same time, there is just the reality of--yeah, I actually DON'T have time to listen to the entire thing very often.  It is my favorite album to listen to when I am cycling, but I am really skittish about wearing earbuds when I am on the road, and only do it for the 23 miles or so that I am on the bike trail, which only gives me time for Act I. 

[TAC]

I actually haven't made an abridged single CD, but after reading the last few posts, I'm inclined to do so. There is literally never a chance to hear the thing in it's entirety. There fore, I don't listen to it....but I love it, so I want to listen. If I could pare it down to something manageable with "my" better tracks, then that would be good.

[DragonAttack]

I like 'Chosen', would have preferred 'A Better Life' as its own song, ...   

  A Better Life is its own song.  What do you mean?

But, it is boring, repetitive, and 'preachy'. 

I don't understand.  How is it preachy?

I made a mistake.  I should have written 'A Life Left Behind'.  My bad.  Damn, I love that song.  But....it should have had the chorus continue on and fade out, instead of changing direction.

Preachy.......the constant 'Gabriel, my son', 'where's there's Faith, there is hope'. 

When my wife and I watched JC Superstar Easter Sunday evening (a tradition), when the soldiers are marching above the cave at the beginning of 'What's The Buzz?', I swear that those same footsteps are used at the beginning of 'Ravenskill'.

Anyhoo....just trying to put some of my thoughts into the recent band release......which lacked.....'something'.  Hard to explain.

[TAC]

I actually haven't made an abridged single CD, but after reading the last few posts, I'm inclined to do so. There is literally never a chance to hear the thing in it's entirety. There fore, I don't listen to it....but I love it, so I want to listen. If I could pare it down to something manageable with "my" better tracks, then that would be good.

Done!

The Gift Of Music
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior In The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act Of Faythe
Three Days
Ravenskill
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
Moment Of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Hymn Of A Thousand Voices

73:09

[bosk1]

Preachy.......the constant 'Gabriel, my son', 'where's there's Faith, there is hope'. 

But how is that preachy?  I still don't understand.

[Architeuthis]

Also just because Gabriel is the name of an angel in the bible, it doesn't make it preachy. I hear a little biblical overtones in TA but that's ok, I also hear it with alot of 2112 overtones throughout.  A futuristic hero leading a revolution through music.. Even if TA were to be preachy, it wouldn't bother me because the music is so awesome!

[bosk1]

Also just because Gabriel is the name of an angel in the bible...

Okay, but it doesn't have anything to do with THAT Gabriel.  There's no link at all.

I hear a little biblical overtones in TA...

  I don't.

[Sycsa]

Just looking through the song titles, many of them have biblical/religious overtones: A Savior In The Square, Act Of Faythe, Three Days, Moment Of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, Hymn Of A Thousand Voices.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Architeuthis]

Also just because Gabriel is the name of an angel in the bible...

Okay, but it doesn't have anything to do with THAT Gabriel.  There's no link at all.

I hear a little biblical overtones in TA...

  I don't.

That's what I was saying about Gabriel. Just because it is a biblical name, it doesn't mean it was THAT Gabriel.
As far as song titles with a religious biblical overtones, Sycsa has a point in his last post.

[MirrorMask]

Just looking through the song titles, many of them have biblical/religious overtones: A Savior In The Square, Act Of Faythe, Three Days, Moment Of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, Hymn Of A Thousand Voices.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

And Train of Thought had Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father... I remember the fears before the album was out that it was all religious, and it was not.

[Sycsa]

Just looking through the song titles, many of them have biblical/religious overtones: A Savior In The Square, Act Of Faythe, Three Days, Moment Of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, Hymn Of A Thousand Voices.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

And Train of Thought had Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father... I remember the fears before the album was out that it was all religious, and it was not.

Nobody says either of these are religious albums, we're merely talking overtones, inspiration.

That's what I was saying about Gabriel. Just because it is a biblical name, it doesn't mean it was THAT Gabriel.

Maybe it's this one

[Architeuthis]

 

[TAC]

So I have started listening to my Abridged Astonishing and I must say that I think The Gift Of Music is fantastic. I think it's the best song on the album.

[bosk1]

Also just because Gabriel is the name of an angel in the bible...

Okay, but it doesn't have anything to do with THAT Gabriel.  There's no link at all.

I hear a little biblical overtones in TA...

  I don't.

That's what I was saying about Gabriel. Just because it is a biblical name, it doesn't mean it was THAT Gabriel.
As far as song titles with a religious biblical overtones, Sycsa has a point in his last post.

Yes, but religious allusion is a VERY far cry from being "preachy," so that's why I questioned it.  But whatever.  I'm probably being too literal.  Not a big deal.

[TAC]

I just think that any story which includes moral dilemma, faith of any kind (in TA, it's humanity), character and integrity, will likely mirror a lot of what does on in Biblical stories. I don't find anything really religious at all, but if you point to things like "Gabriel", "Heaven's Cove", etc..., I just find those type of terms to be general guideposts to this type of story.

[rumborak]

Weelll, but then there's lyrics like "savior in the square" and stuff. I don't find TA to be preachy either, but I think it's without doubt that Gabriel has elements of Jesus in him.

[TAC]

True, but it doesn't necessarily make it religious. I mean, they even use the word "god" in TGOM don't they?
Like I said, terms like that are guideposts. It doesn't make it preachy in any way.

[bosk1]

Weelll, but then there's lyrics like "savior in the square" and stuff. I don't find TA to be preachy either, but I think it's without doubt that Gabriel has elements of Jesus in him.

Yeah, I agree with that.  And I made this point in one of the threads awhile ago, but I'll repeated it:  I think there is a cool double meaning for the title in Savior In the Square.  If we are debating symbolism, I think that while the title is obviously meant to refer to Gabriel, it also refers to Faythe, since she also has some Jesus symbolism built into her character as well.  First, her actions set in motion the series of events that eventually lead to the "salvation"/freeing of the people of Ravenskill and, presumably, the other commoners throughout the empire.  Second, she is (unwittingly) betrayed and killed.  Third, she is resurrected.  It isn't a perfect correlation to the accounts of Jesus, but as is the case with most Jesus symbolism in literature, it isn't meant to be.  But there is enough there that I think she is most definitely a "savior" in the story.  ...which makes her the other "savior in the square" at that time in the story.

Again, that doesn't make it "religious" or "preachy."  It's being used as a literary device, just as countless authors, playwrights, songwriters, etc. who aren't necessarily religious and aren't necessarily trying to convey a religious message in their art.

[Adami]

I also think it's extremely possible to have lyrics that are religious or have obvious religious symbolism, without being preachy.

Preachy is telling the audience to believe certain things. Singing about religious beliefs isn't always preachy.

[bosk1]

I also think it's extremely possible to have lyrics that are religious or have obvious religious symbolism, without being preachy.

Preachy is telling the audience to believe certain things. Singing about religious beliefs isn't always preachy.

Right.  A good example that springs to my mind is Neal Morse.  In his solo material, he is using religious symbolism for the purpose of preaching his beliefs.  But in Transatlantic, for example, he is more using religious symbolism as a literary device and not to be preachy (for the most part), and just because that is something that is so ingrained in him and important in his life that he cannot/will not divorce himself from that when writing lyrics.  And then on top of Neal, you have Roine in Transatlantic who I think would consider himself "spiritual; not religious" and also uses religious symbolism as a literary device, but not to preach.

[TAC]

Again, that doesn't make it "religious" or "preachy."  It's being used as a literary device, just as countless authors, playwrights, songwriters, etc. who aren't necessarily religious and aren't necessarily trying to convey a religious message in their art.

Literary device. That's the term that's eluded me.

[rumborak]

I also think it's extremely possible to have lyrics that are religious or have obvious religious symbolism, without being preachy.

Preachy is telling the audience to believe certain things. Singing about religious beliefs isn't always preachy.

Right.  A good example that springs to my mind is Neal Morse.  In his solo material, he is using religious symbolism for the purpose of preaching his beliefs.  But in Transatlantic, for example, he is more using religious symbolism as a literary device and not to be preachy (for the most part), and just because that is something that is so ingrained in him and important in his life that he cannot/will not divorce himself from that when writing lyrics.  And then on top of Neal, you have Roine in Transatlantic who I think would consider himself "spiritual; not religious" and also uses religious symbolism as a literary device, but not to preach.

Mostly agree with you, with the exception of Whirlwind. That album is Morse-y in that regard.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I'll buy that.  I don't take it that way, but I can see where there is plenty of room to feel otherwise.

[cramx3]

People were comparing TA to Jesus Christ Superstar.  I get it, there are similarities and there is some religious overtones although pretty loose, other than the savior part, but I can't recall anything on the album that sounded preachy to me.  If it preached anything, it was about the importance of music in happiness, not anything religious.

[bosk1]

People were comparing TA to Jesus Christ Superstar.  I get it, there are similarities and there is some religious overtones although pretty loose, other than the savior part, but I can't recall anything on the album that sounded preachy to me.  If it preached anything, it was about the importance of music in happiness, not anything religious.

Yeah, that's a fair comparison for a lot of reasons--not the least of which is JP himself saying it was an inspiration.  But many people are also confused about the fact that JCS itself is not meant to be "religious" or preachy, notwithstanding the fact that it is a fictional, poetic retelling of the Jesus story.  Anyone who considers it religious or preachy doesn't really know either the Biblical accounts of Jesus, or Andrew Lloyd Webber, or both. 

[hefdaddy42]

Anyone who considers it religious or preachy doesn't really know either the Biblical accounts of Jesus, or Andrew Lloyd Webber, or both. 

I must confess, I am unfamiliar with the Biblical accounts of Andrew Lloyd Weber.

[bosk1]

Well then, you are simply unseasoned. 

[hefdaddy42]

[Kotowboy]

Anyone who considers it religious or preachy doesn't really know either the Biblical accounts of Jesus, or Andrew Lloyd Webber, or both. 

I must confess, I am unfamiliar with the Biblical accounts of Andrew Lloyd Weber.

The Ugly Faced Charlatan of Galilee

[darkshade]

I find listening to TA in chunks is the best way to go. Treat it like a 4 LP set, 8 sides. 20-25 minute segments at a time. The album is really long winded and I just feel fatigued if I listen to it in one session. It's the only DT album I listen to it all or nothing. I don't listen to individual tracks much.

[Kotowboy]

I find that I listen to individual songs or I can put on an "Act" in the background and listen to it all.

I've still never listened to all 130 mins in one go.

[goo-goo]

My abridged version tracklist:

Dystopian Overture
Gift of Music
A Better Life
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Ravenskill
A Tempting Offer
A New Beginning
The Road To Revolution
2285 Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Our New World
Astonishing

1 Hr 22 mins

[Flurokazoo]

Back a year ago, I thought it was one of the very best albums they ever did.

A year later I can acknowledge the album has quite a few issues, mostly length related.

Also, I feel that after 'My Last Farewell' I lose interest and stop listening. These last tracks drag on way too much in my opinion.

[Mladen]

I wouldn't be able to make an abridged version of The Astonishing if my life depended on it. I can pick favorites and lesser favorites, but I wouldn't be able to shorten it. The flow is terrific as it is and even the songs that are less interesting serve a purpose and at least function well as transitions.

[SwedishGoose]

I wouldn't be able to make an abridged version of The Astonishing if my life depended on it. I can pick favorites and lesser favorites, but I wouldn't be able to shorten it. The flow is terrific as it is and even the songs that are less interesting serve a purpose and at least function well as transitions.

Quoted for truth...