New Mike Mangini Interview

[Mosh]

Random non-drummer question: he always talks about tightening his back and arm muscles to achieve certain things (like the double hit instead of a bouncer).
What's the usual consensus on that practice? I've never heard any drummer talk about doing that; is it because they can't, or don't feel it's necessary, or maybe even because it makes you prone to injury?

Followup to this: Does this technique allow him to replicate the triggered drum parts on I&W that Portnoy had trouble with?

[Kotowboy]

Takes 0:01 to play the part.

Takes 6:00 to explain what he's doing.

Only Mangini could take 6 minutes to explain one second.

[Prog Snob]

MM just posted a video showing his preparation for a fill he's changing on Metropolis. I really love how this guy sees the music and interprets it in his own, unique way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_untx5IPPeA&feature=youtu.be

It's one of those things that makes him so phenomenal. Thanks for sharing the link.

Indeed! It's really sad some people still don't appreciate his inmense talent and approach to the drums, and accuse him of being "a robotic drummer with no soul".

For what it's worth, I don't think he's robotic at all. He's just exceedingly proficient and precise. He analyzes the music he plays. As far as I'm concerned that's not a bad thing. People who don't understand the instruments they play just don't appeal to me. That doesn't mean it's all about complexity; that's not what I'm saying at all. There just needs to be something there that stands out, that grabs me.

[erwinrafael]

Takes 0:01 to play the part.

Takes 6:00 to explain what he's doing.

Only Mangini could take 6 minutes to explain one second.

Nah, that's just normal for teachers.

[Prog Snob]

Takes 0:01 to play the part.

Takes 6:00 to explain what he's doing.

Only Mangini could take 6 minutes to explain one second.

Nah, that's just normal for teachers.

Pretty much.

[TAC]

. Here's extreme metal drummer, Darren Cesca, who was Mangini's student.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s71ZzGdiWs8

THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

[erwinrafael]

. Here's extreme metal drummer, Darren Cesca, who was Mangini's student.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s71ZzGdiWs8

THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

Darren had this story abouy his style not being respected in Berklee. Then he came under the tutelage of Mangini, who was not familiar with extreme and black metal but was open minded enough to learn where Darren is coming from. Darren learned a lot from Mangini, especially about understanding how his body works and the science behind speed drumming.

[TAC]

That's interesting. Not sure how it could not be respected. It is excellent drumming.

[erwinrafael]

In the link to a Mangini interview by drum talk that I posted, Mangini hints about how metal sort of does not get respected in music schools. He calls it a prejudice, which even he experienced when he applied to teach in Berklee.

[pcs90]

In the link to a Mangini interview by drum talk that I posted, Mangini hintes about how metal sort of does not get respected in music schools. He calls it a prejudice, which even he experienced when he applied to teach in Berklee.

I remember an interview with Jordan where he said something about how when he was in music school, everyone said musicians playing rock were all less talented than the ones playing classical or something to that effect.

[Bertielee]

That's interesting. Not sure how it could not be respected. It is excellent drumming.

This I don't get either. The guy's a monster drummer! Btw, Thanks Erwin for making me discover a drummer I wouldn't have known about otherwise (no confusion : I know TAc is not erwinrafael).

B.Lee

[rumborak]

That's interesting. Not sure how it could not be respected. It is excellent drumming.

This I don't get either. The guy's a monster drummer!

I think to some degree, Berklee isn't so much concerned about the mechanics of playing, but the artistic expression. From anything I've heard, they don't teach the ability to play the instrument at all, that is expected to be present the day you show up. I think Berklee focuses on making you a versatile musician, so I'm not surprised they're not interested in this (intentionally) mechanical approach to drumming.

[Kotowboy]

On my music degree - and I knew this would happen before I even turned up - Jazz was shoved on you day after day and you'd get to play a rock song maybe twice a year.

I hated Jazz even more after I left.

And most of the "rock" tracks were some awful jazz-fusion road accident like " Led Boots " by Jeff Beck which is one of the worst things i've ever heard.

[Bertielee]

That's interesting. Not sure how it could not be respected. It is excellent drumming.

This I don't get either. The guy's a monster drummer!

I think to some degree, Berklee isn't so much concerned about the mechanics of playing, but the artistic expression. From anything I've heard, they don't teach the ability to play the instrument at all, that is expected to be present the day you show up. I think Berklee focuses on making you a versatile musician, so I'm not surprised they're not interested in this (intentionally) mechanical approach to drumming.

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks Rumby for the explanation as I'm not versed into the mechanics of a music school.

B.Lee

[Madman Shepherd]

It's interesting that JM & JP were two of the only rock oriented musicians going to Berklee and they just happened to meet MP, probably the only other rock musician. 

I'm sure there were a few others but it is a pretty amazing coincidence. 

I guess Sherinian went there a few years before they did. 

[Viking of the Sagas]

Yes he said "not included" referring to the writing on this album, but he did not say he was unhappy about it. It's just a statement of fact. Don't jump to conclusions.

The only impression I got from this interview was that they went all in and took their two-writer conceptual writing and also their backing track / visual-heavy show to the fullest extent this go around, and if I had to guess and make a prediction, the next thing they do will probably go in another direction.

This is how DT has always worked. They constantly explore different avenues within their sound and production and let them run their course until it's time for something new.

To be fair, a lot of that exploration always came from the ever-impulsive MP. His character is very different from that of JP, who seems to be the guy calling the musical direction of DT. JR is involved in the writing process, sure, but JP is the clear leader. So I'd actually call DT a one-man project at this point.

[erwinrafael]

That's interesting. Not sure how it could not be respected. It is excellent drumming.

This I don't get either. The guy's a monster drummer!

I think to some degree, Berklee isn't so much concerned about the mechanics of playing, but the artistic expression. From anything I've heard, they don't teach the ability to play the instrument at all, that is expected to be present the day you show up. I think Berklee focuses on making you a versatile musician, so I'm not surprised they're not interested in this (intentionally) mechanical approach to drumming.

Do I hear some of the "prejudice" (Mangini's words, not mine) against this type of drumming for not being "musical enough"?

Really, if teaching techniques to allow you to express yourself fully in an instrument of your choice for the style that you want (including techniques to achieve maximum drum speed for a drummer who finds his expression in technical and extreme metal) is not an objective of a college of music, then there is something wrong with that college.

Then again, Berklee does teach technique, as their description for the "Private Instruction"  course says:

"Private lesson instruction provides students with individual guidance in developing technique, repertoire, and musical direction. The content of the private lesson material is established by each instrumental department and supplemental material may be used by individual instructors."

[jsbru]

MM just posted a video showing his preparation for a fill he's changing on Metropolis. I really love how this guy sees the music and interprets it in his own, unique way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_untx5IPPeA&feature=youtu.be

Can anyone tell me which second of the song this is?  Narrowing it down to a "guitar glissando" doesn't really help with any of Petrucci's tracks. 

[gzarruk]

MM just posted a video showing his preparation for a fill he's changing on Metropolis. I really love how this guy sees the music and interprets it in his own, unique way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_untx5IPPeA&feature=youtu.be

Can anyone tell me which second of the song this is?  Narrowing it down to a "guitar glissando" doesn't really help with any of Petrucci's tracks. 

well, the Metropolis part (the fill he's working on) is the one that starts at 1:39 on the song. MM is following that fast Petrucci run.
Now, when he talks about a section of Learning to Live, I have no idea of which part it is.

[chaotic_ripper]

I don't understand. He's played this song many times. Why is he working on how to do it?

[Adami]

I don't understand. He's played this song many times. Why is he working on how to do it?

He's re-writing the fills. (Those specific ones at least)

[Kotowboy]

He didn't think he'd over-over-over-over-over-analyzed the song enough and thought of every conceivable permutation of how he can play every 0.01 song to best show off his technical prowess.

" this particular 0.01 of the song is in 4/4 so naturally i'm going to play one single snare hit in 9/16. How do you play a single 9/16 crotchet ? well let me explain only 1,024 ways of doing that.."

[erwinrafael]

So the thread started with an interview that led people to question if Mangini still has his heart for this thing and now we have Mangini passionately taking his time to share to the fans how he is pouring his heart out on one second of a song he played so many times before and he is still getting shit for it (not necessarily in this site but in the internetz).

He just can't win.

[chaotic_ripper]

I wasn't trying to be an asshole when I asked that question, I was genuinely confused. But, after going back and rewatching the video, it makes sense.  It was a half-assed attempt at paying attention to it the first time.

[Prog Snob]

So the thread started with an interview that led people to question if Mangini still has his heart for this thing and now we have Mangini passionately taking his time to share to the fans how he is pouring his heart out on one second of a song he played so many times before and he is still getting shit for it (not necessarily in this site but in the internetz).

He just can't win.

  You're right. There's always going to be someone criticizing one thing or another.

[rumborak]

I don't agree with people who are using his devotion to that 1s of Metropolis as a sign that his sentiments in the video were "off" or not meant that way. I think it only corroborates it; he wants to be creative, but doesn't have a lot of outlets in DT to do so. So, he tries to be creative in the places where he can, for example by perfecting small sections in Metropolis.

[erwinrafael]

Really, Rumbo?

"There are melodies and unison through throughout Images and Words, for example, and I'm going to use this drum set and my chops to really bring those out because it's more of what I do but it's without changing the essence of what is there, so what most people are used to, because I'm concerned about that as well."

He's been doing this using his drumming skills to bring out the melodies played by the other instruments for a long long time. It's his STYLE. He did it with Mike Keneally. He did it with Steve Vai. Don't read it like he's only doing this because he can not do it in other areas of Dream Theater.

[erwinrafael]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

Also, looks like we will have a Mike Mangini rhythm art book.

https://mikemanginiart.com/

[rumborak]

Really, Rumbo?

"There are melodies and unison through throughout Images and Words, for example, and I'm going to use this drum set and my chops to really bring those out because it's more of what I do but it's without changing the essence of what is there, so what most people are used to, because I'm concerned about that as well."

He's been doing this using his drumming skills to bring out the melodies played by the other instruments for a long long time. It's his STYLE. He did it with Mike Keneally. He did it with Steve Vai. Don't read it like he's only doing this because he can not do it in other areas of Dream Theater.

Maybe you misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that he's only now doing it. This has been his MO because, quote MM, he's been a "replacement drummer" in all those bands, and in that function there's not a lot of creative outlet, other than slightly reinterpreting the previous drummer's stuff. And that's exactly what he's doing in DT right now because a) yes, of course he's a replacement drummer and b) quote MM again, he's not been included creatively in two albums.

[erwinrafael]

Or maybe it's just simply that he's posting this stuff because the band is about to go on a tour that is about Images and Words, and not because he has no other creative outlet with the band.

[Ben_Jamin]

Really, Rumbo?

"There are melodies and unison through throughout Images and Words, for example, and I'm going to use this drum set and my chops to really bring those out because it's more of what I do but it's without changing the essence of what is there, so what most people are used to, because I'm concerned about that as well."

He's been doing this using his drumming skills to bring out the melodies played by the other instruments for a long long time. It's his STYLE. He did it with Mike Keneally. He did it with Steve Vai. Don't read it like he's only doing this because he can not do it in other areas of Dream Theater.

Maybe you misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that he's only now doing it. This has been his MO because, quote MM, he's been a "replacement drummer" in all those bands, and in that function there's not a lot of creative outlet, other than slightly reinterpreting the previous drummer's stuff. And that's exactly what he's doing in DT right now because a) yes, of course he's a replacement drummer and b) quote MM again, he's not been included creatively in two albums.

Maybe, he over thought what his role in DT would be and it didn't meet what he thought. Of course he still accepted the offer because he gets to play his dream Kit.

It is hard to be the next new member, after a founding member of more than 20 years decides to leave. It's harder if that member was a driving force for the band in the studio and out.

You can see Mangini loves being in DT. He is allowed to feel a certain dissent of his position in the band. That's part of being in a band. I'm sure the next album will feature many contributions from all members.

[Stewie]

If Mangini seriously thought he would have just as much creative input as the others, joining a band of 25 years at the time, then that was really naive of him. You don't just walk on in like you own the place after getting the gig and say, "Okay guys, I'm thinking we should do this, this and that for this album. Thoughts?" It's surely a privilege you gain slowly, over time. The same was true of JR when he joined DT. His creative input slowly became more and more welcome with each album, and you can hear it. If Mangini is actually frustrated and unhappy (not saying he is), then he just needs to chill out and be patient.

[Stewie]

JR is involved in the writing process, sure, but JP is the clear leader. So I'd actually call DT a one-man project at this point.

That's a very extreme way of looking at it. Just because The Astonishing was JP's vision doesn't mean you should generalize and say DT is a "one-man project" lol. That's just silly. It was one album, and merely the latest. To make that kind of a judgement call after one album seems way premature. The self-titled album was entirely collaborative, as was ADToE, minus Mangini who was learning the rest of their catalogue to prepare for touring. So, it's hardly fair to say they are a "one-man project". If after two or three more albums it's still mostly JP coming up with everything, then your claim would not only make more sense, but apply.

[King Postwhore]

If Mangini seriously thought he would have just as much creative input as the others, joining a band of 25 years at the time, then that was really naive of him. You don't just walk on in like you own the place after getting the gig and say, "Okay guys, I'm thinking we should do this, this and that for this album. Thoughts?" It's surely a privilege you gain slowly, over time. The same was true of JR when he joined DT. His creative input slowly became more and more welcome with each album, and you can hear it. If Mangini is actually frustrated and unhappy (not saying he is), then he just needs to chill out and be patient.

It's not naive at all. He expected to be in the writing process and not what he's done as a hired gun before.  Come into a polished song an add his florishes.

[Stewie]

If Mangini seriously thought he would have just as much creative input as the others, joining a band of 25 years at the time, then that was really naive of him. You don't just walk on in like you own the place after getting the gig and say, "Okay guys, I'm thinking we should do this, this and that for this album. Thoughts?" It's surely a privilege you gain slowly, over time. The same was true of JR when he joined DT. His creative input slowly became more and more welcome with each album, and you can hear it. If Mangini is actually frustrated and unhappy (not saying he is), then he just needs to chill out and be patient.

It's not naive at all. He expected to be in the writing process and not what he's done as a hired gun before.  Come into a polished song an add his florishes.

First off, that's exactly what he got to do on the self-titled album...he got to come up with his own drum parts, and even had some input in the songwriting process. On ADToE, JP had a rough outline of programmed drums for the tunes, but Mangini still got to elaborate on them quite a bit. With The Astonishing, all of the music was written, and while JP did have a lot of say in the matter, Mangini got to come up with all kinds of drum parts - as long as they followed the flow of the composition, and were approved by JP. If anyone thinks that JP sat hunched over a computer for hours programming all these nuanced drum parts for The Astonishing, they're flat-out wrong. I specifically asked him at the meet and greet to what extent did he develop the drum parts, and he said he had a basic idea of the timing; whether a section would be half-time, whether it would be very upbeat and busy, or a laid back groove, etc. He didn't have very specific drum parts in mind - Mangini got to come up with a lot more than what people have been giving him credit for. In the end JP had final say on parts, yes, but he didn't sit down at a computer and program everything and hand it to Mangini and say "here, just play this". It was more along the lines of "that's great, try this instead" and "that was awesome, can you add more this, less that".

Secondly, I think you missed the point of what I was saying earlier. When he first joined the band, it would've been unrealistic of him to think he had equal creative input as the others, being brand new in a band that has been established for over twenty years. He's done great though, being the drummer and being able to be there and play what is requested of him at times, but also being able to infuse his style into the music as well. Again, I'm not saying he is unhappy based on that interview - I'm saying that if he actually is, he needs to realize that those privileges come with time. Or, if he feels really strongly about it, he should talk to the guys.