Who would you choose to co-produce the next DT album?

[?]

Jens Bogren for me as well. What he did for Amorphis was pretty insane. Under the Red Cloud sounded way better than anything else they'd done in the last decade and was also one of the band's best records overall, in my opinion.

He is a great producer, but his records tend to have a samey sound, at least on the drum department.
But, if DT decided to go for a heavier sound, he is sure one of the best to mix the album.

Agreed. A lot of the bands that have worked with Bogren have called him a demanding guy who pushes every musician to do their best, and I think you can hear that on the albums like Under the Red Cloud, Ghost Reveries and The Great Cold Distance. His drum sounds are a little samey indeed, but despite that he's one of the best producers around right now.

[Hourglass Prison]

+1 For bringing back the caveman.
Or honestly, even Terry Brown. I know they had a falling out or whatever, but that was a long time ago now.

[Peter Mc]

David Prater obviously, assuming he's still alive.

[Tony From Long Island]

Let's keep in mind, though, that Petrucci is the only leader now (nothing bad with it at all)

I'm not so sure I agree with that.  He needs someone to balance out and bounce off of.

[Tony From Long Island]

Rick Rubin.

Please No!!!!!!!       Metallica's Death Magnetic is one of the worst albums I have ever heard sonically.   Everything sounds distorted.   Makes it very hard to listen to.

[Tony From Long Island]

I see no one commented on my choice of Butch Walker.          No one can deny that he has an ear for what sounds good.   He's played several different genres and has produced quality sounding albums in several different genres.   



Also, whoever threw out  Bob Ezrin . . . I love how  Kiss's "Revenge" sounds

[Tony From Long Island]

1. Peter Collins (Rush, Flying Colors,etc)
2. Nick Raskulinecz (Rush, Alice in Chains, Mastodon, Deftones)

Didn't they both work on "Counterparts?"        Probably my fav Rush Album   - yes I know - an unpopular opinion, but it was the first one I actually bought.  I was 19 when It came out and just starting to stray from my beloved Hair Bands.

[gzarruk]

I like the idea of having some 10-ish minute songs, but I think when their songs get longer than that (unless it's a multi-part epic), they tend to lose focus.

I'd be fine with Prater returning.  I'd even be fine with Shirley.  I thought it was funny his name was mentioned, because supposedly it was the producer that "ruined" FII, but that might have just been MP being MP.  I was actually going to come on here to say that I think FII was their best album tone/mix wise.  The drums sound especially great on this one.

That's what happened with The Best of Times. It sounds like they had to make it longer so Portnoy could fit all his lyrics into the song, it feels really long and some sections are redundant (imo).

I really enjoyed the production on FII and agree that most of the hate towards that album was mostly because MP's complaints about it. However, I would prefer another one like Jens Bogren or Nolly to give the band a new, fresh sound they haven't experienced with before.

Steven Wilson wants his thread back

He doesn't like DT at all, so I highly doubt he would do it. Plus, I find the guy to be very annoying (sorry, just my perception of him  )

David Prater obviously, assuming he's still alive.

That's a very important thing to consider 

Let's keep in mind, though, that Petrucci is the only leader now (nothing bad with it at all)

I'm not so sure I agree with that.  He needs someone to balance out and bounce off of.

I'm not saying he doesn't need somenone else, in fact, this thread exists because, I think, he needs someone else helping on the production. I just didn't want it to sound on a negative way 

[jsbru]

Prater's not only still alive, but he's on LinkedIn, and he's very serious about still working:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-prater-996b6b25

Fair, extremely loyal, courteous, considerate, compassionate, tenderhearted yet willing to make any sacrifice and endure miserable conditions to achieve an objective. I want to enjoy working until the day I die. I have no plans for retirement.

[gzarruk]

Prater's not only still alive, but he's on LinkedIn, and he's very serious about still working:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-prater-996b6b25

Fair, extremely loyal, courteous, considerate, compassionate, tenderhearted yet willing to make any sacrifice and endure miserable conditions to achieve an objective. I want to enjoy working until the day I die. I have no plans for retirement.

that's amazing. I only knew he was the producer for IAW and ACOS. Any other, good, work he's been involved in that I could check out?

[jsbru]

You only need to read further on his profile:

He is best known for his multi-platinum work with Dream Theater (Images and Words, Change of seasons), Firehouse (self-titled debut, Hold Your Fire) and the hit singles "Love of A Lifetime" by Firehouse, "Pull Me Under" by Dream Theater as well as "Time of My Life" and "Hungry Eyes" from the soundtrack for the smash-hit film "Dirty Dancing" His works with have received many awards, most notably the "Song of the Year" Academy Award for "Time of My Life" in 1987 and Firehouse winning the American Music Award's "Best New Rock Artist" in 1991. He has produced over ten top forty and top-ten singles.

Those were huge hits.

[gzarruk]

You only need to read further on his profile:

He is best known for his multi-platinum work with Dream Theater (Images and Words, Change of seasons), Firehouse (self-titled debut, Hold Your Fire) and the hit singles "Love of A Lifetime" by Firehouse, "Pull Me Under" by Dream Theater as well as "Time of My Life" and "Hungry Eyes" from the soundtrack for the smash-hit film "Dirty Dancing" His works with have received many awards, most notably the "Song of the Year" Academy Award for "Time of My Life" in 1987 and Firehouse winning the American Music Award's "Best New Rock Artist" in 1991. He has produced over ten top forty and top-ten singles.

Those were huge hits.

Thanks! I will check them out 
Nothing notorious after the 90's, though 

[Enigmachine]

Fair, extremely loyal, courteous, considerate, compassionate, tenderhearted yet willing to make any sacrifice

Mike Portnoy, James LaBrie and Kevin Moore would beg to differ. lol

You argue with the high quality of IaW though.

[gzarruk]

Fair, extremely loyal, courteous, considerate, compassionate, tenderhearted yet willing to make any sacrifice

Mike Portnoy, James LaBrie and Kevin Moore would beg to differ. lol

You argue with the high quality of IaW though.

I actually prefer the general sound and production of Awake, but no one can deny the success and influence IAW had and still has

[Tony From Long Island]

I actually prefer the general sound and production of Awake, but no one can deny the success and influence IAW had and still has

I agree 100%    I&W   got me into DT, but I never did like the drum triggers.    Awake is flawless to me (except for what I hear as a slight hiccup in a drum fill during EROTOMANIA).   I love the production of Awake.

[emtee]

Here are my grades of DT albums based on sound quality via my home system.

WDaDU - D
I&W - B+
Awake - A
FII - A
SFaM - B-
SDoiT - A+
ToT - A
8V - A+
SC - C
BC&SL - B+
ADToE - D-
DT12 - C-
TA - B+


Given all the conversation on all the sites over the many years regarding sonic/production values, I have come to accept that each
and every album (except maybe WD&DU) sounded exactly how the band wanted them to sound. They made artistic decisions that
may have been slightly augmented by the label but all in all it was their vision. The real puzzler for me has always been ADToE
which is full of amazing compositions but just doesn't sound up to DT's standards. If that album sounded like any of the B+ or above
albums it becomes a masterpiece for me.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Bob Ezrin

This.  Or Ted Templeman.

[hefdaddy42]

Andy Wallace

Do you want another ADTOE-like sounding album? I sure dont!

Well, Andy only mixed ADTOE, we're talking about producing (and probably mixing too), so the outcome would be different.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Rick Rubin.

I'm sold.

Ted Templeman.

That would be interesting.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Nick Raskulinecz - lotta people don't like him, but he knows what's needed and Shogun from Trivium has probably my favorite production on any modern metal album

Jens Bogren

Greg Fidelman - Hardwired sounds amazing as well!

[King Postwhore]

Seconded on Jens Bogren. He also mixed and mastered Fates Warning's Theories of Flight. That record sounds amazing. That is who I'd like to see.

This all the way.  His work with Haken is amazing.

[Kotowboy]

Nick Raskulinecz - lotta people don't like him, but he knows what's needed and Shogun from Trivium has probably my favorite production on any modern metal album

Hmmm. I thought In Waves sounded better.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Nick Raskulinecz - lotta people don't like him, but he knows what's needed and Shogun from Trivium has probably my favorite production on any modern metal album

Hmmm. I thought In Waves sounded better.

Also a great sounding album, especially the brighter guitar tone. But I think Shogun has a well-balanced mix (you can hear each instrument perfectly) and all of the tones of each instrument compliment each other nicely.

[rumborak]

I am mostly blown away that you guys are so keenly aware of the different producers on albums. That is totally outside of my purview usually (unless the album is really bad).

[gzarruk]

Here are my grades of DT albums based on sound quality via my home system.

WDaDU - D
I&W - B+
Awake - A
FII - A
SFaM - B-
SDoiT - A+
ToT - A
8V - A+
SC - C
BC&SL - B+
ADToE - D-
DT12 - C-
TA - B+


Given all the conversation on all the sites over the many years regarding sonic/production values, I have come to accept that each
and every album (except maybe WD&DU) sounded exactly how the band wanted them to sound. They made artistic decisions that
may have been slightly augmented by the label but all in all it was their vision. The real puzzler for me has always been ADToE
which is full of amazing compositions but just doesn't sound up to DT's standards. If that album sounded like any of the B+ or above
albums it becomes a masterpiece for me.

I thought the mix on ADTOE was fine, just a little too quiet on the drums, why such a bad grade? Same with SC, I think the mix is much better than most of the other albums.

Actually, I think the mixes by Paul Northfield were really good. The only issue was the lack of bass on BC&SL, but the rest was all good to me.

I am mostly blown away that you guys are so keenly aware of the different producers on albums. That is totally outside of my purview usually (unless the album is really bad).

A good production can be, in some cases, what makes an average album a great album, and vice versa 

[nikatapi]

I thought the mix on ADTOE was fine, just a little too quiet on the drums, why such a bad grade? Same with SC, I think the mix is much better than most of the other albums.

Actually, I think the mixes by Paul Northfield were really good. The only issue was the lack of bass on BC&SL, but the rest was all good to me.

Yeah actually i also think that Paul Northfield mixes were good, i would love it if the outcome was less compressed though. Both had audible bass, crispy drums (and cymbals) and not over-processed vocals (which has been the case for every album after ADTOE). I think the bad compression (especially on SC) made the albums worse sounding than they were, mixing was good imo.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Here are my grades of DT albums based on sound quality via my home system.

WDaDU - D
I&W - B+
Awake - A
FII - A
SFaM - B-
SDoiT - A+
ToT - A
8V - A+
SC - C
BC&SL - B+
ADToE - D-
DT12 - C-
TA - B+


Given all the conversation on all the sites over the many years regarding sonic/production values, I have come to accept that each
and every album (except maybe WD&DU) sounded exactly how the band wanted them to sound. They made artistic decisions that
may have been slightly augmented by the label but all in all it was their vision. The real puzzler for me has always been ADToE
which is full of amazing compositions but just doesn't sound up to DT's standards. If that album sounded like any of the B+ or above
albums it becomes a masterpiece for me.

Strictly speaking production-wise, I don't think TOT and 8vm deserve A's - TOT just sounds over compressed and doesn't have any breathing room, while 8vm suffers the same fate as ADTOE and lacks any low end or punch.

[Serah Farron]

Hmm, I haven't fully grasped the concept of how producers and co producers work.

Are they in charge setting the order of the songs and recording all the instruments from the sound system?

[gzarruk]

Strictly speaking production-wise, I don't think TOT and 8vm deserve A's - TOT just sounds over compressed and doesn't have any breathing room, while 8vm suffers the same fate as ADTOE and lacks any low end or punch.

Agree on TOT. Some of Mike's octobans on that album sound distorted, like they started clipping or something and they never fixed it. Just listen to the entire album and you'll see/hear what I'm talking about 

The mix in 8V doesn't bother me, but I don't really like the album that much, so I don't really care 

Hmm, I haven't fully grasped the concept of how producers and co producers work.

Are they in charge setting the order of the songs and recording all the instruments from the sound system?

Depending on the band/album/producer/etc, the role of the producer will be different. The best way I can say it is: The producer has the job of getting the best performance out of the band, decides how the song structures should go (for the most part), could help with the songwriting, oversees arrangements, tone, etc. Works with everybody involved (band, engineers,session players, mixers, etc) to get the best out of everybody.

When I was taking music production classes at the university, the teacher (a very good and known producer in my counrty) told us a story about how Phil Spector (the guy who produced the Beatles album Let it Be) was producing a Ramones record and the guitarist couldn't get the part right, so he entered the recording room with a gun, pointed it to his head and said "you get ir right or I'll shoot you". Well, he got it right and that was the track they used 

[Serah Farron]

Ah, thank you so much! That helped clear it very quickly.

[ariich]

Most of that is accurate, but actually producers rarely "decide" on song arrangements, especially in the rock and metal world where the band is the real creative driving force. Often the producer will be involved in those discussions and will challenge the band (and that can turn something good to great), but the band/songwriter will normally be the decision-maker. The more consistent role of the producer is to get the right sound.

[emtee]

Not surprising at all that we all have different opinions on the sonic values of every album. Our ears, sound systems and preferences
are all different.

When I hear ADToE I hear an album that sounds like I'm listening to it through a couple blankets on the speakers and where the drums
were recorded on mics that were coated with foam.

[gzarruk]

Most of that is accurate, but actually producers rarely "decide" on song arrangements, especially in the rock and metal world where the band is the real creative driving force. Often the producer will be involved in those discussions and will challenge the band (and that can turn something good to great), but the band/songwriter will normally be the decision-maker. The more consistent role of the producer is to get the right sound.

Like I said, it all depends on the band, the members, the producer, etc. Some producer are just sound engineers or similar and can only give insight on the sound aspect of it. Others are full blown musicians, composers, multi instrumentalists, you name it. That's why it's sometimes hard to describe the role of a music producer, since some may do a lot and others might just help with the direction of the album. It all depends.

If we take it to the DT case, I think that the band needs someone to help them find another musical direction they haven't explored yet. Someone who can challenge them to get out of their comfort zone and write a different kind of album, using much more the different strenghts of each member.

[nikatapi]

Not surprising at all that we all have different opinions on the sonic values of every album. Our ears, sound systems and preferences
are all different.

When I hear ADToE I hear an album that sounds like I'm listening to it through a couple blankets on the speakers and where the drums
were recorded on mics that were coated with foam.

Yeah it's true that everyone hears things differently, but there are some elements that can be universally appreciated. As you said, ADTOE had this muffled sound, and even though it was more organic than the next albums, it needed more punch and clarity, especially on the cymbals (which were buried due to the guitar-heavy and mid-heavy mix i think). Just put for example The Mirror from Awake and then Bridges In The Sky back to back. The difference in power and clarity on the heavy parts is mindblowing.

Another thing that is bothering me is JP's tone recently, from ADTOE and forward, where he is using lots of effects when riffing, chorus being the most prominent, and he does it to fill up the sonic space (especially live) but it makes his sound less edgy and a little washed out. I hope it's not the case on the next album.

[DragonAttack]

Bob Rock, just because he worked wonders with Motley Crue on 'Dr. Feelgood'.

Roy Thomas Baker:  Seriously, he's still working, the name would cause a buzz in the music world, and he certainly knows a hit or ten when he hears one.

I wish.....they would find someone to say 'NO' at times, or 'boys, let's cut this album down to 60 minutes of great stuff', instead of the extra meandering that at times is rather harsh on the ears (parts of ANTR, ITNOGod, and the 1:59-2:30 bit of 'Lost Not Forgotten' for example)

[jakepriest]

I have no idea why people hate ADTOE's mix. That and Octavarium are my two favourite productions for a DT album.