Top Mike Mangini moments in The Astonishing

[bosk1]

On my ride home from work yesterday, I made a point of listening closely to the drum parts, and there is just SO much good stuff going on.  Mike Portnoy really made me interested in drumming with so many interesting things going on and being so clearly in your face.  As has been pointed out many times already, Mangini's drumming isn't quite as "in your face," so it appears more subtle and restrained if you only listen casually and don't look for what is going on.  But once you dig in and really listen, it is such a rewarding payoff.

[emtee]

On my ride home from work yesterday, I made a point of listening closely to the drum parts, and there is just SO much good stuff going on.  Mike Portnoy really made me interested in drumming with so many interesting things going on and being so clearly in your face.  As has been pointed out many times already, Mangini's drumming isn't quite as "in your face," so it appears more subtle and restrained if you only listen casually and don't look for what is going on.  But once you dig in and really listen, it is such a rewarding payoff.

I agree and for me what makes it a big difference between this album and the last 2 is that they got the sound so much better that
you can really appreciate the performance.

[pcs90]

I read that post about the marching snare part when he posted it. I also assumed they had recorded 2 separate snare parts...really amazing.

[Dream Team]

Over 2 months wait still for me 😞

[erwinrafael]

On my ride home from work yesterday, I made a point of listening closely to the drum parts, and there is just SO much good stuff going on.  Mike Portnoy really made me interested in drumming with so many interesting things going on and being so clearly in your face.  As has been pointed out many times already, Mangini's drumming isn't quite as "in your face," so it appears more subtle and restrained if you only listen casually and don't look for what is going on.  But once you dig in and really listen, it is such a rewarding payoff.

I agree and for me what makes it a big difference between this album and the last 2 is that they got the sound so much better that
you can really appreciate the performance.

I also often read people saying that his drumming is predictable and sometimes I feel like responding, "really? When you would compose a drum part you would have four limbs doing separate things?" I think when people find Mangini's drumming predictable, it is because his composition choices make sense. So it sounds predictable.

[Ben_Jamin]

On my ride home from work yesterday, I made a point of listening closely to the drum parts, and there is just SO much good stuff going on.  Mike Portnoy really made me interested in drumming with so many interesting things going on and being so clearly in your face.  As has been pointed out many times already, Mangini's drumming isn't quite as "in your face," so it appears more subtle and restrained if you only listen casually and don't look for what is going on.  But once you dig in and really listen, it is such a rewarding payoff.

I agree and for me what makes it a big difference between this album and the last 2 is that they got the sound so much better that
you can really appreciate the performance.

I also often read people saying that his drumming is predictable and sometimes I feel like reaponding, "really? When you would compose a drum part you would really have four limbs doing separate things?" I think when people find Mangini's drumming predictable, it is because his composition choices make sense. So it sounds predictable.

Then show them Breaking The Fourth Wall. "Does that drum part seem simple and predictable now?"

[Dream Team]

Actually I think his fills can be a little samey just like MP's sometimes were. I wish he would incorporate some crazier rudiments more often (he did in one song but I forget which at the moment).

[erwinrafael]

Actually I think his fills can be a little samey just like MP's sometimes were. I wish he would incorporate some crazier rudiments more often (he did in one song but I forget which at the moment).

Mangini is not really a fills guy. Best fills I have heard from him is in Crucify in JLB's Elements of Persuasion.

Most of his creativity is in the composition.

[Dream Team]

A small thing, but I wish the snare was louder in the blast beat section, it's almost inaudible. ANTR was like that also.

[TheCountOfNYC]

My favorite would have to be the blast beat at the end of Three Days. No crazy polyrhythms. No crazy limb independency tricks. Just pure balls to the wall speed.

[SebastianPratesi]

Today I figured out the whole of "The Walking Shadow" ending. It took me like 2 hours of pausing/rewinding/re-playing, but afterwards, I felt happy. I started with the first JM note at 2:06. It probably wasn't a good idea, since that first part just seems like 16 JM notes with no apparent meter/tempo.

So, since the bass starts, you have 13 bars of 14/8. That's 13x14 eighth notes. And how much is 13x14? https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46078.0

On a serious note: when JP & Mike enter, Mike accentuates the first note of each 14/8 with the crash, while the bass drum (or is it kick?) hits whenever JM plays a note (something not trivial at all, since JMs notes are placed differently in some bars), all while JP plays 6/8 lines. Man that must be hard live!

About that: how do you think they are playing that live? Are JM and JP listening to a metronome or something on their in-ears? I'm guessing playing their parts while listening to Mike must be hard.

[Adami]

I remember listening to the album and having a few moments where I was really digging what MM was doing. Sadly I didn't think to see which song/time stamp it was. Next time I listen to the album I'll pay attention so I can post them here. But there were, indeed, a few moments where I really liked it.

It likely had nothing to do with polyrhythms or limb independence or his tendency to just play whatever else is playing, but likely when he used counter rhythms to change things up, which he really needs to do more often.

[SebastianPratesi]

7. Moment of Betrayal outro (5:25 onwards) - what I love in this part is that Mangini is doing the usual highlighting of what the other instruments are doing, but his choices of what to highlight and how to highlight it comes from out of left field that he keeps you on your toes.

I also took the time to figure this one out, Erwin, and I have a question about counting on that drums part.

The way I hear it, the guitar plays 4/4, 7/8, 4/4, 7/8, 4/4, 7/8, 4/4, 4/4, making up for a total of 61 eighth notes (or 30 beats and a half).

When I concentrated on the drums, the way Mike accentuates (with the crash on first beats of some bars), I hear 5/4, 4/4, 4/4, 7/4, 4/4, and 'the rest'. In order for it to add up to the 30 beats and a half, 'the rest' are 13 eighth notes. Initially, I counted 'the rest' as 4/4 + 5/8, but it didn't feel natural because I noticed the crash wasn't hitting on the first beat of the 5/8.

Instead, I think 7/8 + 6/8 makes more sense: not only the crash hits on the first beat of the 6/8 bar, but also the snare hits on the 4th eighth note of that bar, so both accentuate the 6 as 3 + 3 (the natural way).

Do you think that's the way Mike/you/drummers would count that part? Or is there another, more natural way of counting that?

[erwinrafael]

I think that is the part Mangini was hinting before where he improvised on the spot during the recording so he had a hard time in the rehearsals. So I would say that the best for that part really is not to count but remember the accents as if they are lines in a song.

[erwinrafael]

Mike posted pics of his touring kit on his Facebook page. Did not realize it is painted white, so it meshes with the stage lighting.

[seasonsinthesky]

I love your analytical posts, erwinrafael. It's a real blitz to listen to sometimes (it was with MP, too), but reading your interpreting and analyzing turns it to fascination. Stuff like the "countdown" time sig changes in "Walking Shadow" – obviously it sounds crazy and interesting when listening, but that's just incredible now that you explained what's happening.

[SebastianPratesi]

I think that is the part Mangini was hinting before where he improvised on the spot during the recording so he had a hard time in the rehearsals. So I would say that the best for that part really is not to count but remember the accents as if they are lines in a song.

Oh, I didn't notice that he had hinted about it. What you say makes sense, though!

[Kotowboy]

Mike posted pics of his touring kit on his Facebook page. Did not realize it is painted white, so it meshes with the stage lighting.

The white looks good and losing the two extraneous bass drums actually makes it look a lot less ridiculous.



Whoopsie Mike - he said " The snare is the same one used on DT13 " BUT nice to know that he calls it the same as us (DT12 would be correct) and not DTDT which is just silly

[rumborak]

Has MM ever commented on why he doesn't do play-through videos like MP did? He wouldn't need to sell them, just to showcase all the crazy stuff he plays on the record. There's just so much guessing going on when it comes to what he plays.

[Adami]

Has MM ever commented on why he doesn't do play-through videos like MP did? He wouldn't need to sell them, just to showcase all the crazy stuff he plays on the record. There's just so much guessing going on when it comes to what he plays.

This is a very good point. It would also really fit his personality since he really loves to go into instructor mode and break down and explain what he's playing. Doing that for a bunch of songs off the last 3 albums, playing them through and then breaking them down would be a great product. I'm not even a huge fan, but I'd buy that for sure.

[pcs90]

I agree, he really should consider doing this. Even the drum stems from the albums would help. At least we did get that performance of TEI recently.

[erwinrafael]

I think that is the part Mangini was hinting before where he improvised on the spot during the recording so he had a hard time in the rehearsals. So I would say that the best for that part really is not to count but remember the accents as if they are lines in a song.

Oh, I didn't notice that he had hinted about it. What you say makes sense, though!

This is how he actually said it:

"Also in just getting home, I have returned to The Astonishing Songs preparation. It is such a massive, versatile and vibe-varying body of work, that revisiting parts and trying to copy the improvised details is virtually not possible. It is really brutally hard work. I hope you all heard (JP & JR) and Moment of Betrayal on the Eddie Trunk radio show. It sounded really, really great to me in that environment; really alive and powerful. The radio brings out fantastic details. I still have to slow all the tunes down to really get them, no matter how slow or fast some are...It is a memory thing because it is so unique. Not talking about difficult drum stuff- about the ins and outs of the grooves and transitions that don't repeat."

So I am just guessing that MoB is one of those improvised moments, but who knows? Maybe it was written down after all.

Has MM ever commented on why he doesn't do play-through videos like MP did? He wouldn't need to sell them, just to showcase all the crazy stuff he plays on the record. There's just so much guessing going on when it comes to what he plays.

I think he is really just busy. He has plans to do so based on his Facebook posts:

"Amin Saffar: Is it possible break down your incredible playing in ''Moment of Betrayal'' on 5:27 till 5:49, I'm really curious to know how do you turned a simple guitar accent to a really good groove specially on Kicks N Snares, CANT WAIT FOR THE WHOLE ALBUM !!! \m/.

Mangini: At some point I will."

"Zamma Ray: I'm really excited about this new upcoming album. and pleasa give us the drum play through video for this song a.s.a.p!

Mangini: I will put it on my to do for 2016."


I also love how he answers the funny stuff when he has time.

"Tobi Yarbrough: Hey Mike, what is the chance you can get Petrucci to shave that damn beard before tour?

Mangini: None. I pick out the M&M's when he isn't looking."




And how he handles criticism as well:

"Cesar Magalhaes: That's enough man, go back to Berckley, please...This is an outflow, don't take this in the wrong way (although there's not really a good way in this .. ). What I said was my heart talking. I know that you're making your living like all of us do every day, but for me, seeing all this change in DT's music is a bit hard. Coming from their past, and now this ... well you know, I'm sure you feal it to . I know that the guys have choosen you for a reason, and more than me, they know it. I think you're beyond awseome as a drummer, but man, why do it have to be so machined in everything ? Why does it have to be so overthinked ? I understand that it's your style, but it sound so much as a machine .. and that snare ......... mike it and that's it ! Don't take this in the wrong way, it's just an oppinion . Hug, and all the best . PS - I wish I could take lessons from you, it would be something .

Mangini: Here's a live video (inserts video of TEI Zildjian performance) - how can it be a machine? It is a drum set with every day mics in a clinic setting. On the Grid playing just might not be your style and that is perfectly OK with me. I like some players and not others too. I also like some songs on some albums from bands, but not all of them all the time. I change EQ settings on my catalog and listen per my mood. No problem Cesar! I'd rather you post the truth and allow for a little bit of humor and fun. This next album has lots of varied grooves, emotional intentions and moods with the production of it. It is pretty amazing ride and experience and put together ingeniously. Again, you may not like some aspects on some songs, but like them on others. That is totally normal. But, I know I've not played on a record so well conceived and varied in emotion before. I am happy that you'll get to hear me 'not' play and just support, as much as play some crazy stuff : ) Peace!!"

[Voices]

I bet this last guy critizing MM is brazilian. We have lots and lots of MP's widows here in brazil, and they don't like Mangini stuff only because he isn't Portnoy. 

Anyway, back on topic, there's so much memorable moments from Mike in TA, that is so hard to remember all of this moments right now. But if I had to point out 3 songs where I really like his drumming, I'd say ANB, TWS and ONW. Superb drumming on these songs.

[erwinrafael]

My favorite drum cover on YT so far. I love how Mathias played close to what Mike is doing with the cymbals, which is one thing that makes Mike's orchestration different from the usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQVLyS5Jt9c

[Kotowboy]

Not liking Mangini *JUST* because Portnoy quit and he's the replacement is like all those people who hated Newsted JUST because he wasn't Cliff Burton.

[Kotowboy]

My favorite drum cover on YT so far. I love how Mathias played close to what Mike is doing with the cymbals, which is one thing that makes Mike's orchestration different from the usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQVLyS5Jt9c

Finally a Mangini drum cover that doesn't have the kit set up exactly like Mike does

I always find it funny when I see those.

[SebastianPratesi]

Mangini: None. I pick out the M&M's when he isn't looking."

Isn't that a reference to Wayne's World 2 or something? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6KTGBjpyM
Or is that actually a reference to something else?

Off-topic: man, I should watch that film again!

[Kotowboy]

My favourite Mangini moment is the simplest.


The "Billie Jean" groove in A New Beginning.