*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Mladen]

The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur.

Except SFaM (in Fatal Tragedy).

Wait, what? Which moment are you referring to?

[Enigmachine]

The very end of a Tempting Offer around 3:38. Read the lyrics and just hear how messed up that sounds. It's unexcusable and no other DT album would have allowed that sort of slip up to occur.

Except SFaM (in Fatal Tragedy).

Wait, what? Which moment are you referring to?

The glitch after the intro.

[rumborak]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not. Earlier in this thread we discussed RateYourMusic.com and sputnik.com, and both sites' numerous reviews rate TA as the lowest album of their catalog.

For me, it simply comes down to, JP and JR aimed way too high. Like, wayyyyy too high. So, even though they gave themselves more time than usual, the vast scope of the album (music, lyrics, story, artwork etc etc) stretched them so thin that each aspect came out poor.

For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned, I just can't fathom that the same guys who wrote SFAM didn't stop halfway into writing that part and said "aaaaand, onto the cutting floor". That 25 seconds section encapsulates all that is wrong with the album, IMO. Sequencer-sounding drums, wtf lyrics, "Frozen"-style music.

EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.

[Darkstarshades]

Well...

Growling "SELF-RESTRAINT!" "INVENTORY" "ANALYSIS" and "I am responsible!" are the worst lyrics in any DT song for me.

But I see your point, I personally think they could have used the full near 160 minutes both CD's have. JLB is a skilled lyricist, so maybe JP should have asked for assistance?

[Adami]

Well...

Growling "SELF-RESTRAINT!" "INVENTORY" "ANALYSIS" and "I am responsible!" are the worst lyrics in any DT song for me.

But I see your point, I personally think they could have used the full near 160 minutes both CD's have. JLB is a skilled lyricist, so maybe JP should have asked for assistance?

I dunno, as a therapist, I often find myself growling ANALYSIS to my clients.

[rumborak]

Well, that's of course another aspect, and one that's been plaguing them for a long time. There's 5 guys in the band, but somehow it seems to fall to always 2 guys to do the whole thing. JP wrote the lyrics and the story, JP+JR wrote the music... What did JM, JLB and MM do? Is there such a two-tier system in DT now that the "lower ranks" have no say at all anymore, not even percolating up suggestions?

[Prog Snob]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?    Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

[Darkstarshades]

Well, that's of course another aspect, and one that's been plaguing them for a long time. There's 5 guys in the band, but somehow it seems to fall to always 2 guys to do the whole thing. JP wrote the lyrics and the story, JP+JR wrote the music... What did JM, JLB and MM do? Is there such a two-tier system in DT now that the "lower ranks" have no say at all anymore, not even percolating up suggestions?

I'm pretty sure JLB would have sung the album in a very different way. Judging from the interviews, JP was frequently on skype with him and seeing how he was doing and would often tell him to change things. Maybe JLB was trying something different or odd? And maybe some of the changes he did make made it all the way to the final product, in which case, JLB does indeed contribute to the vocal melodies.

The extent of MM and JM, I can't see them doing much out of the instrumental sections.

[rumborak]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?    Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album. And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

[Prog Snob]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?    Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.

[Darkstarshades]

There are a lot of people who absolutely hate the album.
Like a couple that was sitting several seats to my right, they left in the intermission and never came back, lol.

[rumborak]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?    Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.

It's a strawman argument. My comment of "outside of this forum, it's not considered a masterpiece" obviously wasn't meant as "there is not a single person outside of DTF, not even in the deserted jungles of the Yanomamo people, who considers TA a masterpiece". The point I was making obviously was, the general consensus, i.e. the mode of the distribution, outside of DTF, is that it did not live up to its own hype.

[King Postwhore]

Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a lot of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my DT?"

[Darkstarshades]

Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a love of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my Kevin Moore?"

[King Postwhore]

Lets be honest though guys this isn't a normal DT album and it was going to bring out a love of either "Holy Cow this is awesome!" to "WTF did I just listen to?  This isn't my Kevin Moore?"

I fixed my typo of love to lot.  lol

[King Postwhore]

I guess the king has spoken!

[jakepriest]

For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned

The entire first half of A New Beggining is the worst thing on the album. Though I'd still call it better than anything on WDADU .

[Prog Snob]

I'm just confused when people call this a masterpiece.

Outside this forum, it's not.

So you are going to tell me that nobody out there thinks this is a masterpiece except those on this forum?    Come on. It might not be their best work, but you're just coming up with shortsighted and bitter statements like that one because of how you feel about it.

So, you're using the "well, I know a guy who isn't on DTF but likes the album" argument? The best proxy for public opinion on the album we have is RYM and Sputnik. I can personally say that my friends have been vocally saying "wtf?" about the album.

I'm using common sense to defuse your statement. Nothing more. Nothing less. They have a couple of million likes on their Facebook. Don't tell me none of those people think that it's a masterpiece and do not come to this forum.

It's a strawman argument. My comment of "outside of this forum, it's not considered a masterpiece" obviously wasn't meant as "there is not a single person outside of DTF, not even in the deserted jungles of the Yanomamo people, who considers TA a masterpiece". The point I was making obviously was, the general consensus, i.e. the mode of the distribution, outside of DTF, is that it did not live up to its own hype.

First of all, it's not a strawman argument. You made a statement. I countered your statement. Secondly, if you want to change your argument and clarify it better after the fact that's your own problem. Own your mistakes. Don't hide behind a clarification issue, dearie. 

[cramx3]

I dont know, A New Beginning is one of the best songs on the album and up there with some of the best of DT IMO

It was one of the few songs that really stood out to me on first listen, most of the album just kind of blended together until I got up to maybe 10 listens when I was able to break it all out and understand the music better.  But ANB was great from the getgo for me.  I thought most agreed it was one of the better tracks.

[TAC]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

[cramx3]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much 

[Prog Snob]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much 

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show.   I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.

[cramx3]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much 

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show.   I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.

[King Postwhore]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I know.  I didn't see a walker in the aisles.

[TAC]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I know.  I didn't see a walker in the aisles.

Hey, why do you think you got that parking spot so close to the Orpheum?

[Prog Snob]

... And the Boston audience response was very reserved.

That's because I wasn't there! 

I think all of the audiences were reserved given the whole theater presentation of the show.  Really sucks the life out of a concert if you cant rock out.  I know I tried my best to rock out but I could only do so much 

Watching your drunkenness rock out was almost as awesome as the show.   I know we've said this before but... That poor usher.

[SebastianPratesi]

EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.

I'm curious, honestly - has it been officially confirmed that James did those crying sounds? Or was it someone else, and I haven't read about it? Thanks!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Dang, it's getting heated in here fellas!

I think it's fair to say that there are those who think The Astonishing missed the mark. I think it's also fair to say that there are those who think it hit the ball out of the park. As to what the average reaction to the album was... Who knows, really? If I had to guess, then I'd probably say that the album was a tad under-received, but I still love the thing to death.

[Kotowboy]

I listened to the album again over the last two days. An Act a Day.

Act I is easily the better Act. That repeating cricket sound is distracting. And they use it twice.

I still enjoy it and there's no point where I go " Oh no it's this song - skip ".

[KevShmev]

For me, A New Beginning 3:25-3:50 is so mind-boggingly the worst music DT has ever penned, I just can't fathom that the same guys who wrote SFAM didn't stop halfway into writing that part and said "aaaaand, onto the cutting floor". That 25 seconds section encapsulates all that is wrong with the album, IMO. Sequencer-sounding drums, wtf lyrics, "Frozen"-style music.

That might be the most bizarre opinion I've seen here in quite some time, and I usually agree with you more often than not.

EDIT: Honorable mention to the beginning of "Losing Faythe", which is total wtf too. First, the pun (Faith vs Faythe) that was overused by that point. Then, the freesound.org sample of the crickets. And then, yes, a guy pretending to be a woman crying.

On the flip side, I agree that the crying part is a bit...odd.  I guess it's good for me that I rarely listen to that song (even though the last 85 seconds is aces), so I almost never hear that part. 

[cramx3]

The crying is bad for sure.  Honestly I feel DT has always been poor with using audio snips from other sources in their music, this is just another example.

[KevShmev]

  Petrucci put the story first above everything, and if the listener won't care about the story, then the music suffers for it.

I still totally disagree with this.  I have been listening to this a lot since the day it came out, 5 1/2 months ago, and I still have NEVER go out of my way to read the lyrics, and while I know the general gist of the story now, I still don't much of the particulars, yet I love most of it*...because the music is mostly great.

*I still think almost all of Act 1 is great, only one or two songs I would say are not great, not counting the NOMAC tracks.  And while Act 2 loses its way for a bit, it still has some great songs.

[Mosh]

On the Eddie Trunk interview, JP said that he and JR approached the band and asked that the entire thing be written by them, without input from the other guys.

I can see why they had that idea, but it might have been beneficial to present the band with the finished product (as we hear it today) and get their input. Really all The Astonishing needed was an editor. It sounds like nobody wanted to question JP's creative decisions.

[King Postwhore]

This kind of album resonates with some and not for others. I still say I'm happy that they are stretching their musical legs.

[Mosh]

I did enjoy the album and I'm thrilled that they're doing something different, but there was definitely room for improvement.