Dream Theater and Octavarium

[erwinrafael]

I have been listening to these two albums back to back for the past week, and I love how similar the two albums are. Generally shorter songs, and then an epic. The only exception is Sacrificed Sons, which does not have a counterpart in DT in terms of length. I also find that the mix of soft and heavy stuff are the same. So I think this is an interesting poll just for fun.

Personally, I love Dream Theater much more. I really believe that JP was not kidding when he said they find it much harder to write shorter songs. What I love about the DT album is that they were able to write the shorter songs without losing their distinct prog touch. In Octavarium, they sound like a different band when they write the short songs.

[BlobVanDam]

Octavarium in every case except for TLG/IWBY, and it wasn't even close except for NE/EM.

[bosk1]

The way you paired them, I went with DT12 for every pairing except Octavarium vs. Illumination Theory.  Other pairings may have yielded different results.  For instance, Panic Attack would have beaten most other songs beside the one it was paired with.  And pairing #1 is tough.  Ask me again 5 minutes from now, and I might pick TROAE.

[bl5150]

DT 12 for everything except TALW and Never Enough using those pairs.

[erwinrafael]

i paired them based on  each song's specific function in the album. Ballad vs. Balld. Mini-epic vs. Mini epic. Hard rocker vs. Hard rocker. I find it amusing that there are counterparts for each song.

[bosk1]

I find it amusing that there are counterparts for each song.

Well, I don't mean to put a damper on your poll, but I wouldn't really say that there really are counterparts for most of the songs unless, as you have done, you use REALLY broad, general categories.  But using those same criteria, you could draw parallels between MOST DT albums.  I don't really find most of your pairings to be convincing in terms of the songs being "similar" in any respect, including their "function" on their respective albums.  But don't take that as a criticism.  Still a fun poll. 

[TAC]

The Root Of All Evil vs The Enemy Inside
The Answer Lies Within vs. Along For The Ride
These Walls vs Surrender To Reason
I Walk Beside You vs. The Looking Glass
Panic Attack vs. Behind The Veil
Never Enough vs Enigma Machine
Sacrificed Sons vs The Bigger Picture  TIE
Octavarium vs Illumination Theory

8V..4 wins
DT12..3 wins
1 Tie

[TAC]

I find it amusing that there are counterparts for each song.

Well, I don't mean to put a damper on your poll, but I wouldn't really say that there really are counterparts for most of the songs unless, as you have done, you use REALLY broad, general categories.  But using those same criteria, you could draw parallels between MOST DT albums.  I don't really find most of your pairings to be convincing in terms of the songs being "similar" in any respect, including their "function" on their respective albums.  But don't take that as a criticism.  Still a fun poll.

What? These songs are perfectly paired.
Erwin, don't listen to him! You did just fine!

[erwinrafael]

I just had an idea of creating a playlist of DT 12 songs arranged in the Octavarium sequence and vice versa. Listening to the DT 12 playlist now. 

[hefdaddy42]

DT12 for everything except TROAE, IWBY, and 8VM, and those were close.

[bosk1]

I find it amusing that there are counterparts for each song.

Well, I don't mean to put a damper on your poll, but I wouldn't really say that there really are counterparts for most of the songs unless, as you have done, you use REALLY broad, general categories.  But using those same criteria, you could draw parallels between MOST DT albums.  I don't really find most of your pairings to be convincing in terms of the songs being "similar" in any respect, including their "function" on their respective albums.  But don't take that as a criticism.  Still a fun poll.

What? These songs are perfectly paired.
Erwin, don't listen to him! You did just fine!

Maybe I'm just not getting the pairings then.  I see the first one:  "opening/metal track."  Okay, that works.  The "closing epic" pairing works as well.  The "softer song" pairing of TALW/ALTR works, although feels like a bit of a stretch since the songs are so dissimilar and do not really play the same role on the album.  But it's close enough.  And I'll even give you the "pop song" pairing of IWBY/Looking Glass, even though that is a bigger stretch.  But beyond that, I'm not sure why the remaining songs pair up the way they do.  Again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I just don't see any clear, obvious connection that would make the average person go, "oh yeah, this song plays a similar role to that song" with the other pairings.

[PixelDream]

Everything 8VM. I don't ever listen to DT12 anymore to be honest, I just don't like what they're doing right now even though I've listened to the songs quite a bit upon release, so I do know every song well.

Also, I have some warm feelings for 8VM. It came out when I was a huge fan. For me, it marks an end to the 'hot streak' of their latter career (SFAM, SDOIT, TOT, 8VM). I love all those albums.

[erwinrafael]

Maybe I'm just not getting the pairings then.  I see the first one:  "opening/metal track."  Okay, that works.  The "closing epic" pairing works as well.  The "softer song" pairing of TALW/ALTR works, although feels like a bit of a stretch since the songs are so dissimilar and do not really play the same role on the album.  But it's close enough.  And I'll even give you the "pop song" pairing of IWBY/Looking Glass, even though that is a bigger stretch.  But beyond that, I'm not sure why the remaining songs pair up the way they do.  Again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I just don't see any clear, obvious connection that would make the average person go, "oh yeah, this song plays a similar role to that song" with the other pairings.

TBP / SS - The secondary epics within the album

BTV / PA - the fast heavy song to bring up the energy again in the middle of the album

STR / TW - the obligatory song in 6/8

EM / NE - the high energy filler

[bosk1]

Um...okay. 

stretch

But like I said, it's all good.  Fun little poll regardless.

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, it's a stretch, but I think it's a good stretch as the poll results so far are close. I can't imavine that happening if TALW faces off against TBP, or EM against Panic Attack. But again, it's really just for fun.

Someone should do an IAW vs ADTOE poll.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Octavarium for everything with the only close one being These Walls vs Surrender to Reason. This for me would be like comparing Images and Words to Octavarium for most people (which would match up fairly well with even the track order staying the same).

[BlackInk]

Octavarium on all the pairings. DT12 is their worst album since When Dream & Day Unite.

[bosk1]

Someone should do an IAW vs ADTOE poll.

Do it!

[erwinrafael]

I wish the vocal posters in the IT appreciation thread would show up. Come on, guys! Represent!

[cramx3]

My picks ended up being half/half based on pairings, but I like DT12 over Octavarium.

[krands85]

The Root Of All Evil vs The Enemy Inside - This one is really close. At the moment I'd favour TEI, but it might still be carrying a little freshness.
The Answer Lies Within vs. Along For The Ride - Note hugely keen on either, but I definitely prefer TALW.
These Walls vs Surrender To Reason - These Walls has always felt pretty average to me, whereas STR is quite cool - my 3rd favourite from the self-titled album.
I Walk Beside You vs. The Looking Glass - Similar story to TALW vs AFTR.
Panic Attack vs. Behind The Veil - Pretty close matchup. BTV has the killer JP solo, but I prefer PA overall.
Never Enough vs Enigma Machine - Similar story to before again. The weaker tracks on Octavarium are just a bit more enjoyable than the weaker efforts on DT12.
Sacrificed Sons vs The Bigger Picture - I love SS, one of the band's most underrated tracks. TBP is a nice song, especially the second half, but it's not amazing.
Octavarium vs Illumination Theory - IT is awesome and probably just outside my top 5, but 8VM is my #3 DT track and has been for ages so it was always gonna win here.

Guess it's fairly clear from my choices which album I prefer - Octavarium. Neither are in the top or bottom tiers of my DT album ranking though.

[Onno]

I think I favour the Octavarium track in every single matchup.

[Crow]

8vm on literally every choice

[nobloodyname]

Octavarium for me with the exception of The Bigger Picture.

[Kotowboy]

8vm on literally every choice

Whilst I agree - there are some cracking songs on DT12 that could replace Never Enough - as much as I like that song...

But Octavarium the song  > > > >  Illumination Theory.


Oh, and... The Answer Lies Within > > > > > Along For The Ride.

One of my favourite Dream Theater songs VS one of my least favourite Dream Theater songs.

[Kotowboy]

Song By Song.

1. The Root Of All Evil >  The Enemy Inside if you're counting FAS as an intro only - and then it's 8 tracks a piece.

2. The Answer Lies Within > The Looking Glass

3. These Walls > Enigma Machine

4. I Walk Beside You = The Bigger Picture

5. Panic Attack > Behind The Veil

6. Never Enough > Surrender To Reason. And it's not even close. STR has never clicked for me at all.

7. Sacrificed Sons > > Along For The Ride. I've never ever liked AFTR and i've always LOVED SS

7. Octavarium > > Illumination Theory.  My all time favourite Dream Theater song vs a vastly inferior epic. I even prefer The Count to Illumination.

[Setlist Scotty]

I went with Octavarium tracks for every choice except TALW/AFtR and PA/BtV very easily. The only one that was a difficult decision was SS/TBP. For me Octavarium is just a more diverse album that appeals to me more. The only thing I'd really hold against it is that the musical influences were a bit too prominent.

[CharlesPL]

The Enemy Inside
Along For The Ride
These Walls
The Looking Glass
Behind The Veil
Never Enough
Sacrificed Sons
Octavarium

Octavarium - 4
DT12 - 4

[Kotowboy]

Production quality wise - Octavarium wins by a landslide.

[Dave_Manchester]

Root of All Evil (not close)
Along For The Ride (close)
Surrender to Reason (not close)
I Walk Beside You (almost a tie)
Behind The Veil (nowhere near close)
Enigma Machine (close)
The Bigger Picture (not close)
Illumination Theory (nowhere near close)

Album: Dream Theater (not close)

Biggest surprise for me so far in the poll results is Panic Attack trouncing Behind The Veil. Had no idea PA was so highly regarded (I personally don't think much of it, whereas BTV is a modern DT classic to me).

[wasteland]

I went for DT in every matchup save the IT vs 8VM one, where I had to vote for the longer and older piece. As a whole DT12 beats 8VM, and it's not even close for me!

/minoritarian

[comment]

Interesting poll.  I was with 8V on every choice except The Answer Lies Within.  I had to pause and think between Illumination Theory and 8V.  Both are great, but I had JM's bass line playing in my head:  Medicate (Awakening).  I love that section of 8V.   

[bosk1]

I went for DT in every matchup save the IT vs 8VM one, where I had to vote for the longer and older piece. As a whole DT12 beats 8VM, and it's not even close for me!

/minoritarian

That's because you're hecka' smart and have hecka' good taste in music.

I went with DT12 for every pairing except Octavarium vs. Illumination Theory. 

As amazing as Octavarium is, DT12 is amazinger.

[erwinrafael]

The 8v songs that got a vote for me are TROAE and Panic Attack.

[BlobVanDam]

I"m pleasantly surprised by these results so far. I would never have expected DTF would vote Octavarium over DT12 based on general comments over the years.