TOT-General Opinions/Consensus?

[finn the fisherman]

I've not long been a member of the forum,and i apologise if this thread has been talked about on another post/topic,but i was wondering in general what's the opinion/consensus of Train of Thought?
I've listened to it on numerous occasions,and I still find it to be a real brute of an album! Therefore because of its  aggression,i tend to now skip the album altogether! I enjoy all of their other recordings,but in particular,I miss the keyboards on TOT!
What are your thoughts on TOT? Good ,ok or poor?

[hefdaddy42]

I think it's good, but it's too one-dimensional for me to be placed among the top tier of DT albums.

[cramx3]

Its a sold album, but on the bottom half of my DT album rankings.  Its really heavy which I have no problem with, in fact I like that, but I don't find the songs to be consistent.

My rankings with degrees of seperation:

In the Name of God
Endless Sacrifice
...
As I Am
Stream of Consciousness
...
Honor Thy Father
Vacant
This Dying Soul

[bosk1]

If I had to summarize the general forum consensus I have seen over the years since its release, I would say that it is generally liked, but ranked by most in the lower half of DT's discography.

That is true of me as well.  I probably rank it about 10th, ahead of Black Clouds and WDADU.  On a day where I really want to listen to it, it might jump up a spot or two.  But even with the relatively low ranking, there is nothing wrong with it.  It is just much more one-dimensional in terms of mood than DT's other albums, and there is a bit more on a lot of their other albums that I like more.

[Prog Snob]

I like the heaviness of it and there is plenty of riffery if you're into that sort of thing.  However, like the others said, there isn't enough variation by DT's standards.  In The Name Of God is the only song I would consider to be a top tier DT song and I am a huge fan of Stream of Consciousness but otherwise I think there songs are good at best.

[Outcrier]

Their last really good album.

[bosk1]

Their last really good album.

[krands85]

TOT was the album that really helped me fall in love with DT and it's still my #2 behind I&W. I really like all the tracks, but ITNOG and ES have always been the real standouts. I get why a lot of people feel it's too 1-dimensional, though that's never been a problem for me.

My rankings with degrees of seperation:

In the Name of God
Endless Sacrifice
...
As I Am
Stream of Consciousness
...
Honor Thy Father
Vacant
This Dying Soul

If you plucked TDS from the bottom and placed it above As I Am, that would probably be my ranking.

[Outcrier]

Their last really good album.

?

[Madman Shepherd]

Excellent album and probably a bit one dimensional but considering I am a metal fan I liked it just fine.  Don't know where I would rank it since I don't like to rank the albums but I would say it is probably somewhere in the middle.  I generally prefer a bit more diversity. 

Heres how I rank the songs

In the Name of God
Endless Sacrifice

As I Am


This Dying Soul
Stream of Consciousness




Vacant
Honor Thy Father

[bl5150]

My least favourite DT album , just below SC and BC&SL.

[Crow]

what the hell is up with people accusing this of lack of variation

what



whAT??

do I have a bootleg version of ToT where every song is better written and more varied than the official version or something?
yeah the overall feel is heavier than standard DT but heaviness doesn't imply lack of diversity

it's way more diverse than bloody DT12 is

[cramx3]

It may be more diverse than a standard album by most bands, but its the least diverse album by DT and I think thats pretty easy... DT12 has a lot more variation IMO.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I used to regard it as one of my favorites, coming into DT from a more metal side of the spectrum, but now I think it's a solid, good record with its share of flaws. It doesn't have much in the way of variety, with the exception of Vacant, but it's at least fairly consistent. The only song I really have the urge to skip totally is As I Am.

it's way more diverse than bloody DT12 is

Absolutely not.

[bosk1]

what the hell is up with people accusing this of lack of variation

what



whAT??

do I have a bootleg version of ToT where every song is better written and more varied than the official version or something?
yeah the overall feel is heavier than standard DT but heaviness doesn't imply lack of diversity

it's way more diverse than bloody DT12 is

Only on DTF could we find so much rage at an opinion that has been consistently expressed by...pretty much everyone since 2004, in a thread that, so far, has been completely complimentary. 

[JayOctavarium]

I love it but since it is very... as stated above... one dimensional, it will never be in the top 3-4. But at the same time it will never be in the bottom of my list either.

[seasonsinthesky]

overall, the only full songs i don't dig are TDS and HTF. the rest are quality songwriting, despite JR's reduced role (a serious problem on the whole thing!).

my primary issue with TOT is that it's the first (chronologically) time in the discography when the songwriting started going all out for no warranted reason. to say that another way, there are lengthy sections in most of the songs that are either unnecessary or overlong, and not because i sit there and say it's too much — the songs don't support, for instance, the incessant repetition all over HTF, or the way over-extended TDS ending. the band had a serious problem editing themselves; even AIA overstays its welcome with unneeded repetition.

i also get a bit overzealous about how much of it sounds like a parody: a lot of TDS and HTF sound like dads trying to sound like angsty teenagers, and they went way overboard toward the end of ITNOG (insanely wacky circus-solo over the "exotic" bassline/"eat my ass and balls," though it was obscured well tbf), again for no reason.

from then on, there's been at least one song on every album where they go all out for no reason other than to show off in the middle of, y'know, well written songs that the band is so damn good at. these specific musicians with the balance between amazing songwriting that is intuitive and catchy vs. prog excess is what makes the DT sound, so when it goes out of balance, it quickly descends into the parodic, and i'd argue TOT is where the issue came to the fore.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I was listening to a radio interview where Petrucci said the band have sometimes been guilty of playing without "serving the song". Train of Thought has a few instances of this, in my opinion. Otherwise, it's a good record, and I think "As I Am", "Vacant", and "Stream of Consciousness" are amazing. Would love to see them pull those out live again. Also, there's no doubting the album's vibe. It's got a very cool feel about it.

[sneakyblueberry]

Their last really good album.

That's what I was going to say.  The last great DT album for me too.

[Jaq]

As I like a lot of metal that's a fuckton heavier than ToT, I've never seen the album as being particularly one dimensional. Being the heaviest Dream Theater album doesn't mean a lot when on a 1 to 10 spectrum of heavy, it's about a four. 

[Outcrier]

Their last really good album.

That's what I was going to say.  The last great DT album for me too.

Really, i didn't get what was so funny.

[Crow]

i might be biased because i have 3 ToT songs in my top 20 and 0 DT12 songs in my top 50
because DT12 is ungodly boring
and one-dimensional
and homogenous

[Outcrier]

Well, about the general consensus of Train of Thought, it ranked 5th at the last DT League album ranking:

Album Rankings

1.   Images & Words (129-29-2, .813)
2.   Six Degree of Inner Turbulence (92-25-3, .779)
3.   Awake (148-67-5, .684)   
4.   Scenes From a Memory (145-73-2, .664)
5.   Train of Thought (80-57-3, .582) 
6.   A Dramatic Turn of Events (96-80-4, .544)
7.   Octavarium (82-77-1, .516)   
8.   Black Clouds and Silver Linings (53-64-3, .454)
9.   Dream Theater (76-99-5, .436)
10.   Falling Into Infinity (82-136-2, .378)   
11.   Systematic Chaos (48-86-6, .364)   
12.   When Dream & Day Unite (29-129-2, .188)

[Rodni Demental]

Their last really good album.

That's what I was going to say.  The last great DT album for me too.

Really, i didn't get what was so funny.

It's funny because it's an extremely subjective and relative statement that you more or less stated as an absolute (in the original post). No offence intended, but pretty much I could not possibly agree because I'd have to ignore about half their carreer which contains some of their best output (imo) so it does seem like a slightly amusing statement from this point of view.

[Outcrier]

It's funny because it's an extremely subjective and relative statement that you more or less stated as an absolute (in the original post). No offence intended, but pretty much I could not possibly agree because I'd have to ignore about half their carreer which contains some of their best output (imo) so it does seem like a slightly amusing statement from this point of view.

How i more or less stated it as an absolute? I don't think there's a need to put "imo" every time a personal opinion is "spoken".

[Rodni Demental]

You don't have to put it in if you don't want to, but remember it can be perceived in anyway if you don't want to deliberately clarify for anyone else who's going to project onto your words (or respond to them). Obviously everyone realises that it's your opinion but that's why I thought it was funny. No? Dunno if that's how bosk felt, I just attempted to answer your question because you seemed defensive about it and I found your 'straight to point' comment worth a chuckle just because of how much I disagree with it, nothing to be offended about though.

[Outcrier]

No problem but i don't think my opinion is so funny given what their most loved albums are.

[wolfking]

Best DT album.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

The album that really got me into DT, though I don't find myself ever listening to anything other than ITNOG (which will always hold up) and AIA (which is a blast) nowadays. ES is still pretty good. Don't have a problem with the rest of it (except that SOC drags on and on); just don't ever really find myself wanting to hear TDS/HTF/V. Probably my #4 behind the 3-headed monster of I&W/SFAM/SC (the last of which is the last great DT album  )

EDIT: Oh, also, the band has said many times that ToT is intentionally one-dimensional. That's not to say there's zero variation, but it was written to sound monolithic, and it does.

[erwinrafael]

I can see how some could consider this one-dimensional, but I rather think of it as an album that sticks to a musical theme. Just like how Awake is the angsty, angry album, ToT is the dark, aggressive one. Nobody here complains about I&W being too bright and exuberant with its sound, even in songs that delve on relatively dark material (Surrounded, for instance).

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I can see how some could consider this one-dimensional, but I rather think of it as an album that sticks to a musical theme. Just like how Awake is the angsty, angry album, ToT is the dark, aggressive one. Nobody here complains about I&W being too bright and exuberant with its sound, even in songs that delve on relatively dark material (Surrounded, for instance).

I think the I&W comparison is more on point than Awake, which has LSOAD, IF, TSM, and of course SDV to break up the supposed "theme." But sure, each album has a dominant sound. None more so than TOT, though.

[Prog Snob]

it's way more diverse than bloody DT12 is

[BlobVanDam]

Great album that I'd rank near the middle, not as good as their absolute best, but much better than the lower half of their discography, including everything from the RR era.
It's an album I have to be in the mood for, being an intentionally more one dimensional album, but when I'm in the mood, it's still a hell of a lot of fun to listen to. SO ENERGY! SO POWAH!

[erwinrafael]

I can see how some could consider this one-dimensional, but I rather think of it as an album that sticks to a musical theme. Just like how Awake is the angsty, angry album, ToT is the dark, aggressive one. Nobody here complains about I&W being too bright and exuberant with its sound, even in songs that delve on relatively dark material (Surrounded, for instance).

I think the I&W comparison is more on point than Awake, which has LSOAD, IF, TSM, and of course SDV to break up the supposed "theme." But sure, each album has a dominant sound. None more so than TOT, though.

SDV I think fits the Awake sound very well, adding a dose of lethargy defusing the angriness of the album (which makes it a very good closer). LSOAD is uplifting, but in a measured sense, not like the uplifting songs in I&W.

IF does seem very bright upon initial listen, but once I became aware of the angriness of the lyrics, the music took on a different meaning. It started to sound conflicted, as if an I&W bright song that realized that it is fucking angry at Kevin Moore.  So it fits the Awake theme.

For The Silent Man, it was a breather between the despair of Voices and the harshness of The Mirror, so I think it's not out of place. It's not even a bright cheerful song, just a relatively quiet one.

[Rodni Demental]

No problem but i don't think my opinion is so funny given what their most loved albums are.

I see where you're coming from, funny might not be the right word but, it's just like: TOT was DTs last good album... lol? okay.

To put it in perspective, for me TOT was my third album, right after BC&SL and SC so ah... My experience with DT kinda went in reverse and so I gained a certain appreciation for those more recent albums because they were my gateway into the band, and the earlier stuff felt more like discovering the classic side to them.