Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[hefdaddy42]

As one of the resident IT lovers here, I just have to say that if the snare sound is enough for you to not appreciate the single best drumming composition in a DT song, I would say that you really are just predisposed not to like it from the start.

**puts stick in cage**

Metropolis, Pt. 1 has the single best drumming composition in a DT song.

Actually, I don't think much of most of the drumming composition in most of the DT songs.  There is certainly a lot of cool playing (such as in Metropolis Pt. 1), but in real composing of drum parts, as a craft unto itself, I'm not crazy about a lot of it, despite my admiration of the drummers involved.

I think IT is an exceptional drum composition.

IMHO, MP's best DT drum composition is perhaps The Great Debate (although I don't actually like the song itself all that much).

I think MP's best compositions were always with outside projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, etc) rather than within the boundaries of DT.

[ariich]

The discussion topics in this thread are so random. I think I now understand why our attempts to revive the DT-side chat thread failed.

[Dani Helios]

The discussion topics in this thread are so random. I think I now understand why our attempts to revive the DT-side chat thread failed.

Yeah... we're not the best at sticking to thread titles. 

[Crow]

who's ready for DT to release a djent record? i know i am

terrified of the prospect and hope that's not the case

[Bertielee]

who's ready for DT to release a djent record? i know i am

terrified of the prospect and hope that's not the case

So am I!

B.Lee

[Kotowboy]

OH FUCK NO.

I cannot stand Tech/Djent/Mathcore whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

Just one string for the entire song with constant arpeggios underneath. YUK.

[ariich]

OH FUCK NO.

I cannot stand Tech/Djent/Mathcore whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

Just one string for the entire song with constant arpeggios underneath. YUK.

Good thing djent isn't defined that way then.

[Kotowboy]

whatever the fuck you wanna call it.

[erwinrafael]

As one of the resident IT lovers here, I just have to say that if the snare sound is enough for you to not appreciate the single best drumming composition in a DT song, I would say that you really are just predisposed not to like it from the start.

**puts stick in cage**

Metropolis, Pt. 1 has the single best drumming composition in a DT song.

Actually, I don't think much of most of the drumming composition in most of the DT songs.  There is certainly a lot of cool playing (such as in Metropolis Pt. 1), but in real composing of drum parts, as a craft unto itself, I'm not crazy about a lot of it, despite my admiration of the drummers involved.

I think IT is an exceptional drum composition.

IMHO, MP's best DT drum composition is perhaps The Great Debate (although I don't actually like the song itself all that much).

I think MP's best compositions were always with outside projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, etc) rather than within the boundaries of DT.

I think Metropolis Pt. 1 has a good drum composition, but it's not at the level of IT where the drumming parts highlight the rhythms, the other instruments, has a variety of techniques, and has subtle complexities like polyrhythms, four limb independence (that intro!), one hand drum rolls that are purposive, bursts of speed, etc. The melodic drumming is also good, going up and down and midrange in a scale the way marching band drums are played melodically. The only thing missing is a Xanadu-like use of percussion, which is one of MM's dreams. Maybe we'll see something like that in the next album.

For me, the best MP drum composition in a single song is Trial of Tears. It's a smorgasbord of catchy drum patterns, with each pattern giving the different sections a different character. And the drum fills are great (one aspect that MP has been better than MM so far in DT songs). Some other faves of mine among MP drum compositions are The Mirror, Scarred and LITS. Awake and FII has amazing drum compositions.TGD is also great but I see it more as a fill-fest than a showcase of drum composition.

[425]

To be totally candid, I am not a drumming person at all. I mean, I don't know much (anything) about music theory as is, and drums are the instrument I pay least attention to. I haven't really thought about what drum compositions I would qualitatively rank as the best. I said that for two reasons: 1) I know erwinrafael is very passionate about the drumming on IT and wanted to poke a little fun and 2) In all honesty, Metropolis is the Dream Theater song on which I notice the drumming most and think "wow, this is really impressive."

Erwinrafael, while I have no doubt that Mangini does a lot of interesting and subtle stuff in his drumming, I must say honestly that I don't have that feeling towards any of his songs. All the DT songs where the drumming sticks out to me are MP. Which should not be taken that seriously or harshly by Mangini and his fans, because it's rare that I pay attention to the drumming, and there are plenty of drummers who I know are great but also I never notice. Portnoy is more of an exception than a rule.

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, it's pretty easy to understand MP's appeal because he plays with a lot of flash, with a lot of air drummable fills. MM on the other hand plays drums a lot like how they are played in an orchestra. It melds into the background and most of the time enhances what the other instruments are doing.

425, try to listen to the Paradox of Black Light part of IT. It's not very flashy, but when you pay attention, you wpuld notice that there are four drum patterns being played simultaneously. If you listen with headphones, you will hear a very loud china cymbal playing the downbeat somewhere in the "back". That's MM's left hand. Then you hear some cymbals playing counter patterns and highlights on the upbeat. That's MM's right hand. Then you hear a hi-hat playing sixteenth notes, going chikichikichikichiki.  That's MM's right foot. And then finally the bass and snare playing the rhythm to support the main melody. That's MM's left foot and right hand. Each pattern adds texture and it takes composition skills to think that you can play all of these patterns simultaneously.

[fischermasamune]

425, try to listen to the Paradox of Black Light part of IT. It's not very flashy, but when you pay attention, you wpuld notice that there are four drum patterns being played simultaneously. If you listen with headphones, you will hear a very loud china cymbal playing the downbeat somewhere in the "back". That's MM's left hand. Then you hear some cymbals playing counter patterns and highlights on the upbeat. That's MM's right hand. Then you hear a hi-hat playing sixteenth notes, going chikichikichikichiki.  That's MM's right foot. And then finally the bass and snare playing the rhythm to support the main melody. That's MM's left foot and right hand. Each pattern adds texture and it takes composition skills to think that you can play all of these patterns simultaneously.

Is it the part starting at 0:28? I tried different timestamps and was never sure I was hearing it.

[erwinrafael]

Yes, that's it. Try to hear first that loud cymbal hitting the downbeat and notice how it's playing continuously the whole movement. Then play it again and listen at all the other patterns playing at the same time.

Then following the "verse change", MM reverses hands. You know hear a different pitched cymbal playing the downbeat playing in the left speaker, which means MM is now playing the downbeat with his right hand. The shift to a different pitched cymbal corresponds to the shift in the melody of the other instruments. Then it goes back to the initial pattern when the other instruments return to the main melody.

Following the mirror structure of the song, MM returns to a variation of this pattern in the outro, particularly after JP hit the climactic note.

[Crow]

djent as a genre has been really wearing on me lately, it's all incredibly samey and when you've heard like two or three bands you've heard them all, a few exceptions but not many 

i don't imagine a DT djent record would be very good, though they could probably add some flavor to it at least???

[pcs90]

Yes, that's it. Try to hear first that loud cymbal hitting the downbeat and notice how it's playing continuously the whole movement. Then play it again and listen at all the other patterns playing at the same time.

Then following the "verse change", MM reverses hands. You know hear a different pitched cymbal playing the downbeat playing in the left speaker, which means MM is now playing the downbeat with his right hand. The shift to a different pitched cymbal corresponds to the shift in the melody of the other instruments. Then it goes back to the initial pattern when the other instruments return to the main melody.

Following the mirror structure of the song, MM returns to a variation of this pattern in the outro, particularly after JP hit the climactic note.

Exactly. MM's drumming is so well thought out and fits the songs so well. If you really take the time to listen to every rhythm and extract all the different parts, it really is incredible.

[BlackInk]

djent as a genre has been really wearing on me lately, it's all incredibly samey and when you've heard like two or three bands you've heard them all, a few exceptions but not many 

i don't imagine a DT djent record would be very good, though they could probably add some flavor to it at least???

Yeah, I'm pretty sure DT would not be able to pull of an all out djent album, which is not at all what I would want them to try. But I know that to have some small djenty influences in more standard prog can be really cool. Haken is doing it lately, and it sounds great.

[Kotowboy]

djent as a genre has been really wearing on me lately, it's all incredibly samey and when you've heard like two or three bands you've heard them all, a few exceptions but not many 

Yep. My bro has to listen to a lot of them for his work and they really do all sound pretty much the same.

[ariich]

djent as a genre has been really wearing on me lately, it's all incredibly samey and when you've heard like two or three bands you've heard them all, a few exceptions but not many 

Yep. My bro has to listen to a lot of them for his work and they really do all sound pretty much the same.

That has nothing to do with the genre and all to do with the fact that there are lots of bands who aren't very good. The same could be said about any genre (and often is said about prog metal, for example).

[BlackInk]

There is an ocean of bad djent bands out there that all sound about the same. The good ones are the ones that stand out and do their own thing. Just like there is an ocean of boring regular prog bands who all sound exactly the same. 90% of everything is crap, you just have to find the 10% that are good.

ninja'd by ariich

[ariich]

There is an ocean of bad djent bands out there that all sound about the same. The good ones are the ones that stand out and do their own thing. Just like there is an ocean of boring regular prog bands who all sound exactly the same. 90% of everything is crap, you just have to find the 10% that are good.

ninja's by ariich

o/

[BlackInk]

*\o

[Progressive Metal Fusion]

That has nothing to do with the genre and all to do with the fact that there are lots of bands who aren't very good. The same could be said about any genre (and often is said about prog metal, for example).

There is an ocean of bad djent bands out there that all sound about the same. The good ones are the ones that stand out and do their own thing. Just like there is an ocean of boring regular prog bands who all sound exactly the same. 90% of everything is crap, you just have to find the 10% that are good.

ninja'd by ariich

Yeah, I'm pretty sure DT would not be able to pull of an all out djent album, which is not at all what I would want them to try. But I know that to have some small djenty influences in more standard prog can be really cool. Haken is doing it lately, and it sounds great.

I completely agree with you ariich and BlackInk.
Djenty riffs are cool, and if used in the right way, they can bring a lot of "power" into a song or section.
Like everything in the music, it's just a matter of balance.

If you look at what Haken did in their last album, or for example Animal As Leaders, TesseracT, or Periphery, if you don't overload songs with too many djenty stuff, a song can be powerful but at the same time breathe without being overly heavy and cause you headache.

I personally think that DT's flavor with some djent riffs could bring in something really interesting.

[Kotowboy]

If DT had one song on the new album which had a djenty section - that would be really cool if it was like for 4 - 16 bars for example.

I think the best riffs are the ones that you throw away for one section and everyone goes wow that part should be longer.

Instead of yeah yeah 4 minutes of the same riff I get it.

[Train of Naught]

I think the best riffs are the ones that you throw away for one section and everyone goes wow that part should be longer.

That's a perfect summary of TGP.

[Siddhartha]

What is djent? 

[Kotowboy]

@JamesLaBrie
" @KvnMoore - of all the Kevins. I am the best them. Then Kevin from home alone. Then Kevin Costner. Then Kevin Kilne. So how are you ? "

[BlackInk]

What is djent? 

A bit difficult to explain these days. I'd say it's a sub-genre of progressive metal that focuses a bit more on rhythmically complex and polyrhythmic ideas, while still maintaining a clear groove instead of having it be as head on "confusing" as regular prog can be for some.

[TheCountOfNYC]

What is djent? 

A bit difficult to explain these days. I'd say it's a sub-genre of progressive metal that focuses a bit more on rhythmically complex and polyrhythmic ideas, while still maintaining a clear groove instead of having it be as head on "confusing" as regular prog can be for some.

That's actually a great description. I feel like describing djent to someone that way would make them want to listen to that genre.

[Sacul]

All you need to know about djent is this.

[Siddhartha]

All you need to know about djent is this.

Hey, I like that. 

[SuperTaco]

All you need to know about djent is this.

Hey, I like that. 

Seconded. That was pretty awesome. I can understand how the genre might get samey after a while, though.

[ariich]

Seconded. That was pretty awesome. I can understand how the genre might get samey after a while, though.

Wouldn't any genre if that was all you listened to?

EDIT: And actually I'm not even sure it's right to call "djent" a genre is it? It's a style of writing/playing, but that doesn't really define it as a genre. As others have pointed out, it gets used within prog metal quite a lot. If a band ONLY uses djent riffs and nothing else then that's probably just not a very good band, like a prog metal band only using the same styles in every song.

[BlackInk]

I usually say djent is a genre. It wasn't at first, but that's pretty much what it has become by now.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm with Ariich, Djent is a style much the same way Rap is a style.

[Kotowboy]

I'm with Ariich, Djent is a style much the same way Rap is a style.

I agree.



Both are dreadful.