DT's Billboard Boxscore Results

[Anguyen92]

Hey guys, I generally follow the billboard boxscore every week to see how touring acts do in their shows in terms of attendance and revenue.

This week, I've noticed Dream Theater is on it with some pretty interesting #s with their South America shows.  For those that were at these shows, can you confirm that the attendance #s are true?

30    Dream Theater    Espaco das Americas    Sao Paulo, Brazil    Oct. 4, 2014    $376,044    4,928 / 8,300    1 / 0    $160.37, $80.18    Mercury Concerts

34    Dream Theater    Movistar Arena    Santiago, Chile    Sept. 24, 2014    $306,888    6,133 /10,000    1 / 0    $55    Mercury Concerts

36    Dream Theater    Mandarine Park    Buenos Aires, Argentina    Sept. 26-27, 2014    $292,995  4,934 /14,000    2 / 0    $118.68, $59.34    Mercury Concerts

42    Dream Theater    Chevrolet Hall    Recife, Brazil    Oct. 10, 2014    $198,449    3,589 /7,000    1 / 0    $150.92, $58.69    Mercury Concerts

44    Dream Theater    Vivo Rio    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil    Oct. 5, 2014    $187,259    3,205 /3,652    1 / 0    $125.77, $60.85    Mercury Concerts

48    Dream Theater    Siara Hall    Fortaleza, Brazil    Oct. 11, 2014    $159,241    2,449 /5,978    1 / 0    $183.42, $50.02    Mercury Concerts

54    Dream Theater    Net Live    Brasilia, Brazil    Oct. 7, 2014    $121,757    1,898 /3,800    1 / 0    $243.44, $81.15    Mercury Concerts

58    Dream Theater    Pepsi On Stage    Porto Alegre, Brazil    Sept. 30, 2014    $108,940    2,314 /5,300    1 / 0    $67.69, $36.92    Mercury Concerts

61    Dream Theater    Master Hall    Curitiba, Brazil    Oct. 2, 2014    $100,831    1,492 /3,500    1 / 0    $146.64, $97.76    Mercury Concerts

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/144887/billboard-boxscore-12-06-14

If it is true, I'm pretty surprised that DT did relatively not so well at Buenos Aires since the crowd size from what I've see in the Luna Park DVD looked pretty full and you think doing two shows at an outdoor venue (was it outdoors?) would bring better results.

[Sacul]

Yeah it was pretty weird because the venue was huge. But it was also new, and many people might have preferred Luna Park (it was reserved for an awful local band ). I was surprised not to see that much quantity of people, since the band seems to be fair popular here.

[rumborak]

Live DVDs don't really reflect general concert attendance. First of all, they announce the DVD beforehand so a lot of people want to be part of that, and at least in the case of BTFW, they kept the ticket price really low. I paid $65 for the ticket, which is a lot lower than what I used to pay for DT concerts in Boston.

[DreamerTV]

I don't know the real capacity of, for example, the Net Live, but in this video it doesen't seem like it's half empty.

And btw, lots of strange things in this video:

- how did someone manage to film from there?
- JR with headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_fulhesSQ

(of course they're not that strange, just, unusual)

[rumborak]

What video are you referring to?

[Setlist Scotty]

I was wondering wasn't in the list São Paulo (Brazil's biggest city) - turns out it is:
30    Dream Theater    Espaco das Americas    Sao Paulo, Brazil    Oct. 4, 2014    $376,044    4,928 / 8,300    1 / 0    $160.37, $80.18    Mercury Concerts

[DreamerTV]

What video are you referring to?

Sorry, i've forgot to attach it on the post now it's there.

[rumborak]

Regarding the NET Live venue, it's impossible to judge, since you can only see the first few pillars. When you look at pictures of the venue, it extends very far into the back.

[Anguyen92]

I was wondering wasn't in the list São Paulo (Brazil's biggest city) - turns out it is:
30    Dream Theater    Espaco das Americas    Sao Paulo, Brazil    Oct. 4, 2014    $376,044    4,928 / 8,300    1 / 0    $160.37, $80.18    Mercury Concerts

Whoop.  That was my mistake.  Probably looked over it.

I don't know the real capacity of, for example, the Net Live, but in this video it doesen't seem like it's half empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_fulhesSQ

I took a look at that crowd shot as well and it looked like the room is nearly filled, yet like you said, it does not reflect the boxscore that says only half of the capacity is filled.  I'm so bad at gauging crowd sizes based on youtube videos though.

[rumborak]

This has nothing to do with judging skills. You simply can't see more than half the venue in that video, so by very definition you can't ever tell with certainty that it was more than half full.

[Skeever]

Very interesting. Those are numbers you'd expect in a typical US theater, but I always thought South America was some bastion of sustained interest in metal. Guess not.

[rumborak]

I don't think its a South-American thing. Look at the numbers for Kiss, Motley Crew and Alice Cooper. They still fill the 13k venues.  My brother saw DT in Germany in the summer and he was also commenting on how empty the venue was.
Tour managers book venues based on previous demand. I think it just means DT12 saw lower interest than ADTOE.

[Anguyen92]

I think they still did good enough during the Along For the Ride Tour overall.  Here were some results from their leg in the states.

60 Dream Theater Chicago Theatre Chicago, Ill. April 5, 2014 $148,223 3,153 / 3,553 1 / 0 $66, $56, $46, $26 Live Nation/MSG Entertainment

64 Dream Theater Warfield Theatre San Francisco, Calif. April 17, 2014 $109,991 2,149 / 2,374 1 / 0 $65, $49.50 Goldenvoice/AEG Live

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/139762/billboard-boxscore-05-10-14

Granted, these were not sold out, but hey, playing in front of 2,000-3,000 people a show in the states is pretty good in this age.

The result of their show in Montreal is kinda interesting.

122 Dream Theater Bell Centre Montreal, Quebec March 21, 2014 $190,626 3,086 / 3,718 1 / 0 $70.66, $44 evenko

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/139175/billboard-boxscore-04-12-14

When I think of the Bell Centre, I'm thinking that's where the Habs play and that they have 15k-20k people a night for their hockey games, and I thought DT would bring maybe about 10k people.  Does the Bell Centre adjusts its venue to do theater-sized concerts as well in addition to arena-size?

[goo-goo]

Seems like they filled on average about 40% (except for the Rio show which was close to being sold out). Those seem to be bad numbers. I wonder if the prices were a bit too high for the average fan.

[DreamerTV]

This has nothing to do with judging skills. You simply can't see more than half the venue in that video, so by very definition you can't ever tell with certainty that it was more than half full.

NetLive fb profile declared 3000 people attended the show.

p.s. and still, yes, the SA leg, and part of both the first and the second European leg, being those numbers true or not, have been a little disappointing in terms of attendance. But tbh that's the way they've always done except for the SC/Octavarium tours; and yes, saturation of their own market (to tour every two years in the same places) while being this the way they can make enough money to survive as a business, is starting to become a problem - also because tickets use to cost more and more every tour. 

[Skeever]

Even in the states, I feel a bit over-saturated. I love seeing bands, but I'm not going to see the same band every two years unless they have some really great new material. That's just a bit too much. There are so many other shows to spend money on.

[DreamerTV]

122 Dream Theater Bell Centre Montreal, Quebec March 21, 2014 $190,626 3,086 / 3,718 1 / 0 $70.66, $44 evenko

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/139175/billboard-boxscore-04-12-14

When I think of the Bell Centre, I'm thinking that's where the Habs play and that they have 15k-20k people a night for their hockey games, and I thought DT would bring maybe about 10k people.  Does the Bell Centre adjusts its venue to do theater-sized concerts as well in addition to arena-size?

This is the Bell Centre gig. I guess we can safely say that those numbers are wrong. (yet it was clearly very far from being sold out)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amCW6c25h5k

[TAC]

That's a good sized crowd, even if the stage is moved up a bit.

[rumborak]

Are the numbers wrong? The Billboard thing says that the venue was almost full, it's just that they shut off large parts of the venue, no?

EDIT: Comparing the video with the Bell Centre seating chart, Im not sure how far off the numbers are. There's three seating segments before it goes into the bend, which means they moved the stage all the way up to the center of the venue. And, of the different levels of the venue, only the lowest one is open. I think 3k sounds about right then.

[DreamerTV]

Are the numbers wrong? The Billboard thing says that the venue was almost full, it's just that they shut off large parts of the venue, no?

EDIT: Comparing the video with the Bell Centre seating chart, Im not sure how far off the numbers are. There's three seating segments before it goes into the bend, which means they moved the stage all the way up to the center of the venue. And, of the different levels of the venue, only the lowest one is open. I think 3k sounds about right then.

aaaaahhhh....

The Bell Centre has 6 configurations. ( https://www.centrebell.ca/en/page/venue_specifications)
Please, look at the difference between the Theatre and the Hemicicle configurations.
DT used the Theatre configuration, which can hold from 5,000 to 9,000 (in their case i think the capacity was 5,000 as the highest levels were closed).
So yes, those numbers, as it was the case with the NETlive, are wrong.

[rumborak]

No offense dude, but it looks a bit that you're trying to dismiss the numbers as hard as you can (maybe because the numbers make DT look bad). Billboard isn't exactly some podunk website; it's *the* site to report music sales.
Bell Centre likely has the ability to further shrink the venue (below 5k), based on ticket sales. So, they might leave off half the section that borders the PA, and if they see the demand, they open up those tickets and move the PA a few feet back (since they can move the stage freely).
Regarding the NET Live numbers, you must have missed the point that the Youtube video only shows the first 10 rows or so. You can't, for obvious reasons, extrapolate towards the whole venue based on the first 10 rows.
And lastly, people have also been reporting all summer that DT's attendance hasn't been that great.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

As much as it sucks to see the band struggling to fill venues, the revenue they're bringing in is still pretty good. I wonder how these numbers stack up with numbers from two or three tours ago?

[Anguyen92]

As much as it sucks to see the band struggling to fill venues, the revenue they're bringing in is still pretty good. I wonder how these numbers stack up with numbers from two or three tours ago?

I found some #s of another show they did at the Bell Centre in Montreal in 2009.

137 Dream Theater Bell Centre Montreal, Quebec Aug. 12, 2009 $194,231 3,571 / 4,460 1 / 0 $54.39 Gillett Entertainment Group/Greenland Productions/Live Nation

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/88393

Here.  The attendance is higher by about 500 people and they made $4k than they did, this year.  Not that much of a difference between five years, I think.

For Chicago.  Higher attendence, but $20k less revenue that they made, this year, than they did in 2009.

105 Dream Theater, Zappa Plays Zappa, Big Elf, Scale the Summit Chicago Theatre Chicago, Ill. Aug. 23, 2009 $168,578 2,729 / 3,321
1 /0 $72, $52, $42 Jam Productions

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/88619

Lastly, they've made a lot of revenue and had a much higher attendence when they played Luna Park in 2010 than they did when they came to Argentina, this year, though I cannot find how they did in 2012 (although I think it may have went up due to the fact that those shows were for the DVD).

33 Dream Theater Luna Park Buenos Aires, Argentina March 13-14, 2010 $530,364 10,364 / 12,112 2 / 0 $124.32, $25.90 T4F-Time For Fun

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/95810

[DreamerTV]

No offense dude, but it looks a bit that you're trying to dismiss the numbers as hard as you can (maybe because the numbers make DT look bad). Billboard isn't exactly some podunk website; it's *the* site to report music sales.
Bell Centre likely has the ability to further shrink the venue (below 5k), based on ticket sales. So, they might leave off half the section that borders the PA, and if they see the demand, they open up those tickets and move the PA a few feet back (since they can move the stage freely).
Regarding the NET Live numbers, you must have missed the point that the Youtube video only shows the first 10 rows or so. You can't, for obvious reasons, extrapolate towards the whole venue based on the first 10 rows.
And lastly, people have also been reporting all summer that DT's attendance hasn't been that great.

and still, yes, the SA leg, and part of both the first and the second European leg, being those numbers true or not, have been a little disappointing in terms of attendance

And that's what i've said. 'Cause yes, i do care if DT do well or not, but no, it's not a tragedy if they don't.

And again

I guess we can safely say that those numbers are wrong. (yet it was clearly very far from being sold out)

and those in the video from the Bell Centre are more than 3,718 seats, at least 1000k more. So yes, in this regard, those numbers are wrong. As they were those about the NETlive.

[rumborak]

You counted the Bell Centre seats from a YT video?

[DreamerTV]

You counted the Bell Centre seats from a YT video?

No, from its seating chart on its official website.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I found some #s of another show they did at the Bell Centre in Montreal in 2009.

137 Dream Theater Bell Centre Montreal, Quebec Aug. 12, 2009 $194,231 3,571 / 4,460 1 / 0 $54.39 Gillett Entertainment Group/Greenland Productions/Live Nation

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/88393

Here.  The attendance is higher by about 500 people and they made $4k than they did, this year.  Not that much of a difference between five years, I think.

For Chicago.  Higher attendence, but $20k less revenue that they made, this year, than they did in 2009.

105 Dream Theater, Zappa Plays Zappa, Big Elf, Scale the Summit Chicago Theatre Chicago, Ill. Aug. 23, 2009 $168,578 2,729 / 3,321
1 /0 $72, $52, $42 Jam Productions

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/88619

Lastly, they've made a lot of revenue and had a much higher attendence when they played Luna Park in 2010 than they did when they came to Argentina, this year, though I cannot find how they did in 2012 (although I think it may have went up due to the fact that those shows were for the DVD).

33 Dream Theater Luna Park Buenos Aires, Argentina March 13-14, 2010 $530,364 10,364 / 12,112 2 / 0 $124.32, $25.90 T4F-Time For Fun

https://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/95810

Interesting. So perhaps DT have raised their ticket prices or something, which is decreasing attendance but raising revenue?

[rumborak]

Well, that's the game ever company is in. Find the price that maximizes revenue.

[TL]

I was at that Bell Center show in 2009. The place seemed pretty packed.
Having been to quite a few shows at the Halifax Metro Center, which tends to have a capacity of about 3000-6000 in front-on concert setup, and having been to a few shows at the Bell Center, the crowd at DT's 2009 Bell Center show seemed noticeably bigger than a typical Metro Center crowd, though smaller than the crowd when I saw Iron Maiden at the Bell Center in 2012. I'd be surprised if the actual figure wasn't around 5000 or so.

I haven't seen them on recent tours, so I can't comment on those. If their numbers are down, that's a bummer.

I know Billboard is literally in the business of tracking these things, but their numbers for non-top 40 artists can be a bit off sometimes.

[Kotowboy]

I don't know the real capacity of, for example, the Net Live, but in this video it doesen't seem like it's half empty.

And btw, lots of strange things in this video:

- how did someone manage to film from there?
- JR with headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_fulhesSQ

(of course they're not that strange, just, unusual)

I wonder why JR is wearing headphones there ? To hear a click ?

[Bolsters]

Maybe his in-ear monitors were lost or damaged, and he had to make do.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know the real capacity of, for example, the Net Live, but in this video it doesen't seem like it's half empty.

And btw, lots of strange things in this video:

- how did someone manage to film from there?
- JR with headphones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_fulhesSQ

(of course they're not that strange, just, unusual)

I wonder why JR is wearing headphones there ? To hear a click ?

To hear the turntables.

[Anguyen92]

Very long bump, but for good reason.  Billboard got a result of their show at RCMH.  People that was at the show. Was the attendance, 5,307 people out of a possible 5,850, accurate with what Billboard stated?

Dream Theater   Radio City Music Hall      New York, N.Y.   April 23, 2016   $343,203   5,307 / 5,850   1 / 0   $120, $74.50, $59.50, $34.50     Live Nation/MSG Entertainment

Also, here's some other attendance data of other shows from the tour that Billboard has posted.

Dream Theater   Bell Centre   Montreal, Quebec   April 15, 2016   $155,534   2,687 /   3,237   1 / 0   $61.90, $30.75   evenko/Live Nation/Greenland Productions

Dream Theater     Chicago Theatre  Chicago, Ill.   April 30, 2016   $160,399   3,227 /  3,553   1 / 0   $86.25, $66.25, $56.25, $26.25   Live Nation/MSG Entertainmen

[TheOutlawXanadu]

RCMH looked pretty packed to me. I assumed it was a sell out, or close, so 90% capacity sounds about right.

[cramx3]

RCMH looked pretty packed to me. I assumed it was a sell out, or close, so 90% capacity sounds about right.

Yea, it was pretty packed.