New DT album 2015?

[BlobVanDam]

24 [...] represents the cycle of a day.

This is the most widely accepted theory.

Well DT saw it as the end of an era too, and the end of the meta-album cycle that they'd dug themselves into. It's quite possible with SC they were very deliberately trying to do something a bit new and different (for the band).

They were but ending the meta-album was already part of the plan, hence why Octavarium is cyclical. The cycle is the terminus.

Having Octavarium continue the meta album but also loop back into itself was genius for the octave/Octavarium concept. It's not a whole they dug, it's a run of albums they finished off in a fitting way as the end of an era.

[TheGreatPretender]

Having Octavarium continue the meta album but also loop back into itself was genius for the octave/Octavarium concept. It's not a whole they dug, it's a run of albums they finished off in a fitting way as the end of an era.

Yeah, but until they came up with the idea of doing the whole octave theme, they kinda did dig themselves into a hole. Didn't MP say something about how they wanted to stop doing the meta albums, and that was just the way they came up with? I'm quite sure it wasn't the plan from the very beginning, when they decided to do do the meta album thing in the first place.

[BlobVanDam]

Having Octavarium continue the meta album but also loop back into itself was genius for the octave/Octavarium concept. It's not a whole they dug, it's a run of albums they finished off in a fitting way as the end of an era.

Yeah, but until they came up with the idea of doing the whole octave theme, they kinda did dig themselves into a hole. Didn't MP say something about how they wanted to stop doing the meta albums, and that was just the way they came up with? I'm quite sure it wasn't the plan from the very beginning, when they decided to do do the meta album thing in the first place.

No idea. I can't remember hearing anything like that (I wasn't as active on the internet at the time), but it's not really digging a hole, since there was no obligation to continue it, unlike say the album spanning 12SS which needed a conclusion.

Obviously nobody expected SDOIT to start off with the static of SFAM, that was just a choice DT made to start that album. SDOIT ended with a clear fade-out, so nobody expected it to carry over to the next album, it just seemed like a fun back to back album nugget solely for SFAM>SDOIT. And even then, ITNOG ended cleanly too, so there was no obligation to continue it again to their 8th album, and had they not done it, nobody would have expected they had to do it.
Given the effort put into Octavarium, and how the meta-album fits into that, I wouldn't say they were in a hole, because it spawned a lot of ideas. But they could have stopped at any time before that, and it wouldn't have mattered one bit.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, but I think they may have felt like the fans were expecting it at that point.

[BlobVanDam]

People would have anticipated it as a possibility after ToT, but it wasn't obligatory, and would have been of no consequence to drop it even at that point. Not really what I'd call a hole.

[TheGreatPretender]

Fine, then a trench.

[Plasmastrike]

It wasn't a damn hole or a trench. It was a musical idea that barred almost no consequence. Just drop it lol

[TheGreatPretender]

Hey, I'm just remembering what I read from MP, can't remember if it was in the book or an interview, where he basically said they kind of started the whole meta album thing, and at that point it almost became expected of them, so Octavarium was their creative way of ending the pattern, and freeing themselves from continuing the meta albums.

[hefdaddy42]

Hey, I'm just remembering what I read from MP, can't remember if it was in the book or an interview, where he basically said they kind of started the whole meta album thing, and at that point it almost became expected of them, so Octavarium was their creative way of ending the pattern, and freeing themselves from continuing the meta albums.

I don't remember anything like that regarding the meta album thing.  Either way, it was no big deal.  They just started doing it, and then they did it again.  Nobody cared, the albums weren't actually connected, it was just a fun little thing.

They didn't write Octavarium for that purpose.  But in writing Octavarium the way it came out, they did stop the meta album, and good thing too.

[TheGreatPretender]

They didn't write Octavarium for that purpose.  But in writing Octavarium the way it came out, they did stop the meta album, and good thing too.

Well, not for that purpose, it just came out as the perfect opportunity to use it in such a way. Octavarium really seems like the kind of an album where if they didn't do all those nuggets and things then, it wouldn't have been nearly as special later on, since the album was their #8, and it was the perfect opportunity to play around with the concept of an octave and all that. I'm glad they realized it and seized the opportunity.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm just saying the meta album thing wasn't a big deal.  They could have stopped any time and most people wouldn't have even noticed.  It wasn't an albatross hanging around their neck.

The 12 Step Suite became an albatross, but not the meta album.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm just saying the meta album thing wasn't a big deal.  They could have stopped any time and most people wouldn't have even noticed.  It wasn't an albatross hanging around their neck.

The 12 Step Suite became an albatross, but not the meta album.

Well, it may not be a big deal to the fans, but maybe because of Mike's OCD, he felt like it was trapping him, I dunno. Not like, life or death, obviously, but if they didn't complete the loop with Octavarium, I can totally see him feeling like they should start Systematic Chaos with the ending of Octavarium.

[hefdaddy42]

If he felt that way, he was the only one.  I guarantee no one else in the band cared, and certainly the fans didn't care very much.

[the_silent_man]

Regarding the "meta album" discussion, I thought it was a neat idea to link BCSL - ADTOE with the calm after the storm sound at the end of BCSL. It was kinda of a cool way of saying "dw, we're picking up exactly where we left off and nothing has changed"

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I believe it was determined that those actually aren't the same sound. ADTOE starts an electronic kind of sound, while TCOT ends with seagulls.

[Dublagent66]

I can see how some fans would probably expect it to continue but I'm really not surprised that it didn't.  It's not a big deal.  Just a passing phase.  Like a movement.  It moves a certain distance and then stops.  Just like all things tend to do.  Nothing lasts forever.  Not even the Earth and sky.   

[the_silent_man]

It's the little nuances like that that make DT special and stand out from the rest. As much as I like DT12, it seemed to lack a lot of these special "nuances" or "nuggets" 

[TheGreatPretender]

I believe it was determined that those actually aren't the same sound. ADTOE starts an electronic kind of sound, while TCOT ends with seagulls.

Yeah, they're absolutely not the same. Although I have to say, if you crossfade them into on another, the transition would be really cool, I think.

It's the little nuances like that that make DT special and stand out from the rest. As much as I like DT12, it seemed to lack a lot of these special "nuances" or "nuggets" 

But there weren't any real consistent nuggets on their albums since SC, so why is DT12 such a big deal?
The only real nugget we got on ADTOE was the chord progression in FFH reprising in BAI, and that was so subtle that it took some music geeks (I use geeks in a positive sense, just to be clear) to point it out before I even realized it.

[hefdaddy42]

Nothing lasts forever.  Not even the Earth and sky.   

[Lucien]

I believe it was determined that those actually aren't the same sound. ADTOE starts an electronic kind of sound, while TCOT ends with seagulls.

The only real nugget we got on ADTOE was the chord progression in FFH reprising in BAI, and that was so subtle that it took some music geeks (I use geeks in a positive sense, just to be clear) to point it out before I even realized it.

Which some people could say is sort of parallelism between WFS and LTL, with the little piano riff. But let's not wake sleeping dogs 

[TheGreatPretender]

Which some people could say is sort of parallelism between WFS and LTL, with the little piano riff. But let's not wake sleeping dogs 

Hey, I will fully admit to that. But yes, let's not wake any sleeping raw dogs.

[RaiseTheKnife]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

[erwinrafael]

It's the little nuances like that that make DT special and stand out from the rest. As much as I like DT12, it seemed to lack a lot of these special "nuances" or "nuggets" 

There are different ways to see nuance and nuggets in an album other than having reprises and similar stuff. The way the Dream Theater album is constructed is actually very nuanced in that the structure of the songs and the album is actually tied to the title of the album, and this can be interpreted in two ways. The first is tying the straightforwardness of being self-titled to the approach taken with the songs. Just like the DREAM THEATER title, the songs in the album are concise but still rmanages to retain the identity, the signature sound, of the band. Second, the structure of the album is such that it plays with being Dream THEATER. The tracks are arranged like it is a show, with an opening suite, an energetic first song, an instrumental in between, a progression of fast-slow-fast-slow songs from TEI to STR, a mellow song before the epic conclusion, and an outro instrumental. The track order in the album is actually followed in the Breaking the Fourth Wall. And then of course, the Breaking the Fourth Wall title is actually another theater metaphor, which ties to the Dream THEATER concept.

[TAC]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

I'm going to assume it's European Festivals in the summer, new album in September and US leg in the fall.

[mabowe]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

I have a strange feeling that they are with MP.

[RaiseTheKnife]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

I have a strange feeling that they are with MP.

That's a random hunch.  30th anniversary.  It would be cool to me.  But . . . . 

I'm hoping for spring or summer dates in U.S.  I think DT 12 needs more live exposure before returning to the studio for another album.  There's still plenty of meat on the bone for DT 12 to hold me over for a while longer.

[TAC]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

I have a strange feeling that they are with MP.

What?? That strange feeling is probably indigestion.

[mabowe]

john zocco, i think that is his name that has been taking tour pics of the band most recently has started taking pics of MP., for which is an apparent "secret project" according to Mp's forum.  Just connecting the dots

[TheGreatPretender]

DT's thanksgiving message confirmed there will be more tour dates in 2015!!!

I have a strange feeling that they are with MP.

What?? That strange feeling is probably indigestion.

Doesn't Turkey put you to sleep? Maybe it's just a dream.

[Kotowboy]

They didn't write Octavarium for that purpose.  But in writing Octavarium the way it came out, they did stop the meta album, and good thing too.

Well, not for that purpose, it just came out as the perfect opportunity to use it in such a way. Octavarium really seems like the kind of an album where if they didn't do all those nuggets and things then, it wouldn't have been nearly as special later on, since the album was their #8, and it was the perfect opportunity to play around with the concept of an octave and all that. I'm glad they realized it and seized the opportunity.

It also started on their 5th album. So there's that too.

[rumborak]

Up until MP left, DT had a bit of a "drawn-out shtick until it's no longer good" thing. The "ass and balls" thing, the AA suite, the forced existence of "nuggets", the meta album thing, they were all drawn past their expiration date. I personally think it's good they stopped that.

[TheGreatPretender]

Up until MP left, DT had a bit of a "drawn-out shtick until it's no longer good" thing. The "ass and balls" thing, the AA suite, the forced existence of "nuggets", the meta album thing, they were all drawn past their expiration date. I personally think it's good they stopped that.

I kind of agree with you, but the nugget thing only really happened on 8VM, that I know of, so not sure how that particular aspect was past its expiration date.

As for the ass and balls, I have to say I was listening to A Sort of Homecoming earlier today for the first time, and hearing, "To the doubtful I demand... Eat my ass and balls," and I have to admit, it actually caught me off guard and made me laugh. 

[Mosh]

I loved the nuggets, they never seemed forced to me. It was one of the things that was signature DT and I really hope they bring that back.

[erwinrafael]

I loved the nuggets, they never seemed forced to me. It was one of the things that was signature DT and I really hope they bring that back.

Why is that signature DT when Images and Words only has one such nugget (the WFS - LTL thing) and Awake as well (Mirror - SDV). Nothing of that sort in FII either. And other bands do it in their albums also.

[TheGreatPretender]

I loved the nuggets, they never seemed forced to me. It was one of the things that was signature DT and I really hope they bring that back.

Why is that signature DT when Images and Words only has one such nugget (the WFS - LTL thing) and Awake as well (Mirror - SDV). Nothing of that sort in FII either. And other bands do it in their albums also.

Well, I guess you could say that Just Let Me Breathe has nuggets that refer to both Wait For Sleep/Learning to Live, as well as Take The Time.