MP getting insulted

[RodrigoAltaf]

I wonder how you can be so sure...

[TheAtliator]

Are we really gonna pretend that a musician would or should have the same reaction their band's work before they joined as after they quit/were kicked out?

[RoeDent]

So 24 hours after excitement about a new Flying Colors album, I'm reminded again about why I'm not a big fan of MP the man. I've lost track of how many times he's made a statement and then had to retract it.

My love of MP the musician, while considerably diminished since the DT split, is still there. I've bought (and love) the new Transatlantic album, and I really like the Flying Colors album. Winery Dogs, Mob, not so much.

[Kotowboy]

With all that said,  a fridnd of mine got Jordan's autograph on a FII copy. It makes a difference whether you're still in the band or not, of course!

No, Jordan is just reasonable enough that he understands the guy probably didn't realize Jordan isn't on FII and isn't going to throw a fit over it. Even if JR was out of the band, I'm pretty positive he wouldn't act the way MP did.

I don't see any problem in signing an album you aren't on. It's still the band you're in now.

[JayOctavarium]

Yea 


Mangini signed a copy of Octavarium for me. I asked if he was cool with it and he said he'd be happy to. Mangini is cool guy.


...


I can understand that Portnoy is upset / annoyed... but he really needs to not voice it all out in the open like that. It makes me, as a fan, uncomfortable and makes me want to think twice on whether or not I'd want to meet him. What if I ran in to him in the same way I ran in to Derek? (Chilling outside of a Black Label Society show)... and I was wearing a post MP DT shirt? Do I not strike up a conversation for fear of offending him? Yea Derek gave me shit for wearing my ADTOE shirt but that was because I was at a BLS show without wearing the colors. lol

[Zantera]

If I ended up in the musician's shoes of someone asking me to sign an album I didn't play on, I would probably make a joke out of it. Like "You do know I wasn't actually on this, right?" But then laugh it off and sign it anyways if they still wanted to. I guess it depends on the atmosphere and how the other person asks. Some people could probably be douchebags about it, but it seems almost a bit paranoid to expect the worst, especially if it's just someone wearing a T-Shirt and nothing more.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Are we really gonna pretend that a musician would or should have the same reaction their band's work before they joined as after they quit/were kicked out?

I don't think anybody's pretending anything.

[425]

I've spent a long time on this forum defending Mike Portnoy. And I'll defend him again to the extent of saying that I understand him being upset and, as someone said earlier in this thread, would maybe understand if he had said something in person in the heat of the moment. Posting about it on social media... was probably a little much.




I think it's valuable to look at what Mike said himself about realizing that there's a human being on the other side of your actions.

I would definitely say that the fan who wore the ADTOE shirt could have been a little more sensitive about his wardrobe choices. I think also that this is a bit different from wearing a, say, Octavarium shirt to a DT meet-and-greet today. When that album came out, Mangini was just not in Dream Theater. He was probably aware of them but was not in the state of being a member of the band or having ever been one. When ADTOE came out, though, MP had just left DT. In addition, the title "A Dramatic Turn of Events" could easily be interpreted as a direct reference to his departure. So I think there's some validity to the idea of "maybe pick a different shirt?"

But at the same time, that same nugget of advice should also apply to Mike Portnoy. As has been pointed out in this thread, there was also a human being on the other side of that Facebook post. Given that there is some possibility that the fan made an honest mistake, I think Mike should not have been quite so harsh in his remarks. I, for one, at least, would have had no problem with something more like this: "I know that fans like to wear DT shirts to meet and greets to show their admiration of my work in that band, and I think that's great. But I would prefer it if fans would not wear shirts referring to post-MP DT, because that can make me feel baited or disrespected. I recognize that fans want to show their admiration and can sometimes make an honest mistake by choosing a t-shirt that offends me, but I would appreciate it if they would take this into consideration and not wear these shirts to meet and greets. Thanks." Same basic sentiment, but done in a much less cavalier fashion that does not necessarily come across as spiteful towards the particular fan or to the fanbase in general.



With that in mind, I'm going to have to agree with a suggestion that some people have been making for a while: Mike needs a PR manager to help him manage his social media. I know he is proud of being open with the fans and wouldn't necessarily be eager about the idea of putting what he would see as a barrier between himself and the fanbase, but this would help him avoid having these (practically) monthly controversies. If he just had someone there to tell him "maybe if you phrased it this way instead" or "could you be misinterpreting this?" I think it would help him a lot.





Side note: I know Mike screwed up here, but I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the idea of bothering him about it on his Facebook page. I have no issue with discussing it on a public forum like this one, or even making constructive remarks on his Facebook page, but something about the whole "post a picture of the ADTOE artwork as a comment on an unrelated post" thing rubs me the wrong way. Don't you have more constructive things to do than harassing the guy?

[Kotowboy]

If I ended up in the musician's shoes of someone asking me to sign an album I didn't play on, I would probably make a joke out of it.

If it was me - i'd be like : "yeah this is the best album for sure."  or " This is definitely my best work "

Or something like that. Just make a joke out of it. Self effacing is always more attractive than arrogance.

[ReaPsTA]

Yea 

Mangini signed a copy of Octavarium for me. I asked if he was cool with it and he said he'd be happy to. Mangini is cool guy.

He cut himself open wide and bled his soul on the floor just for you, and all you can muster is calling him a cool guy?  Imagine the emotional pain and insult he went through when you reminded him that, before he joined the band, someone else was fucking his new wife.  You need to show more sensitivity.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yea 

Mangini signed a copy of Octavarium for me. I asked if he was cool with it and he said he'd be happy to. Mangini is cool guy.

He cut himself open wide and bled his soul on the floor just for you, and all you can muster is calling him a cool guy?  Imagine the emotional pain and insult he went through when you reminded him that, before he joined the band, someone else was fucking his new wife.  You need to show more sensitivity.

Man, the floor was brand new.

[antigoon]

Yea 

Mangini signed a copy of Octavarium for me. I asked if he was cool with it and he said he'd be happy to. Mangini is cool guy.

He cut himself open wide and bled his soul on the floor just for you, and all you can muster is calling him a cool guy?  Imagine the emotional pain and insult he went through when you reminded him that, before he joined the band, someone else was fucking his new wife.  You need to show more sensitivity.

10/10 would read again

[CharlesPL]

Yea 

Mangini signed a copy of Octavarium for me. I asked if he was cool with it and he said he'd be happy to. Mangini is cool guy.

He cut himself open wide and bled his soul on the floor just for you, and all you can muster is calling him a cool guy?  Imagine the emotional pain and insult he went through when you reminded him that, before he joined the band, someone else was fucking his new wife.  You need to show more sensitivity.

10/10 would read again

10/10 +2

[Kotowboy]

∞ / ∞

I give it infinite Octavariums out of infinite.

[TheGreatPretender]

∞ / ∞

I give it infinite Octavariums out of infinite.

You're just falling into infinity there.

[Kotowboy]

∞ / ∞

I give it infinite Octavariums out of infinite.

You're just falling into infinity there.

I was aware of the risks.

[JayOctavarium]

[The Dark Master]

So the Classic Metal Show did a little segment on the whole issue:  https://www.spreaker.com/user/cmsrocks/wrong-dream-theater-shirt-controversy. 

To summarize their opinion on the whole thing:  once you say something on a public forum, you open yourself up to criticism from the public, so you should pick your battles and your words carefully before posting on Facebook and Twitter.  Mike can say whatever he wants, but once he puts it out there where everybody can see it, he should expect repercussions.

[Kotowboy]

I fucking hate how he always backpedals and says something like

"Can't we all just get along ? : ) "

It's pathetic.

Like when he tweeted that Matt Sorum does the same drum fill over and over in November Rain.

Matt replied "so?"

MP then tweeted " No reason!! : ) "

[Dublagent66]

This may have already been mentioned but Ptogressive Music page on FB is calling it T-Shirt Gate.   

I agree that the fan probably shouldn't have picked that particular shirt to go to an MP signing event.  But why should it even matter?  MP probably would not have been happy seeing any DT shirt.  Anyway, that's not really the issue here because we all know what the real issue is.

Never a dull moment with MP.   

[rumborak]

Obvious unresolved issues

I think that's definitely the takeaway message here. 4 years later it still seems to be an open wound for him. Maybe shows how he views his own current projects; I would think that if he was all-in on the Winery Dogs (as in "This is my exciting band for the foreseeable future"), he would not have this violent reaction at the mention of his "ex".

[Another_Won]

I have to say that when the split happened I thought there might be an opportunity to get new music from DT and from MP.  I certainly understand that MP has had side projects all along but I was less than excited about them.  I was hopeful that his creative outlet in DT would now manifest itself in one of his side projects.  To date, that hasn't happened - IMHO.  Just another example of how MP hasn't moved on.  DT obviously have and I like their new direction.  It's time for Mike to do the same.  I really think that if he actually moved on that we all could have some awesome music.

[Madman Shepherd]

I met a guy at a DT show that saw them back in 92 before Pull Me Under made it big.  A few years ago he decided that he wanted to get all five to sign his ticket stub.  Somehow he had Kevin Moore's...maybe he got it that night but he got the others minus MP to sign it in the last few years.  He saw the Winery Dogs recently and was excited to finally get the 5th members signature, explained the story to Mike that he got everyones autograph and all he needed was his and Mike's response was, "Did Mangini sign it?"  The air was let out of his sails.  The answer was no and he got the autograph but it pissed the guy off enough that he told my friend the story at the last DT show and retold the story to me when my friend mentioned it. 

I could almost understand someone like Sherinian being fired FOR Rudess and being particularly sensitive.  Rudess was waiting in the wings and thats gotta be a shitty feeling even though Derek has handled it well...but Mangini didn't take over until after Portnoy QUIT.  WTF? 

BTW, I think its cool that Mangini doesn't have stipulations about what he signed.  Imagine bringing ONE item to get signed and someone refuses.  I saw Ripper Owens signing Halford-era Priest stuff when he was in the band and at first I thought it was weird and then I realized, "Hey, where do you draw the line?"  Just sign what the fans ask unless its a copy of Mein Kampf or something.  That might be a little awkward. 

[bl5150]

I met a guy at a DT show that saw them back in 92 before Pull Me Under made it big.  A few years ago he decided that he wanted to get all five to sign his ticket stub.  Somehow he had Kevin Moore's...maybe he got it that night but he got the others minus MP to sign it in the last few years.  He saw the Winery Dogs recently and was excited to finally get the 5th members signature, explained the story to Mike that he got everyones autograph and all he needed was his and Mike's response was, "Did Mangini sign it?"  The air was let out of his sails.  The answer was no and he got the autograph but it pissed the guy off enough that he told my friend the story at the last DT show and retold the story to me when my friend mentioned it. 

I could almost understand someone like Sherinian being fired FOR Rudess and being particularly sensitive.  Rudess was waiting in the wings and thats gotta be a shitty feeling even though Derek has handled it well...but Mangini didn't take over until after Portnoy QUIT.  WTF? 

BTW, I think its cool that Mangini doesn't have stipulations about what he signed.  Imagine bringing ONE item to get signed and someone refuses.  I saw Ripper Owens signing Halford-era Priest stuff when he was in the band and at first I thought it was weird and then I realized, "Hey, where do you draw the line?"  Just sign what the fans ask unless its a copy of Mein Kampf or something.  That might be a little awkward.

I agree.   A mate of mine in the US recently ran into Michael Anthony of Van Halen and asked him to sign a copy of their latest release  (he's not a big fan but thought he'd do it for me , which is nice) and Michael - who has far more reason to be upset than MP- said "You realise I didn't play on this right?" and signed it without a moment's hesitation.   Come to think of it I have a Jamison era Survivor album signed by Bickler (bought like that).   A lot of these guys, who often have far more to be offended about , just appreciate the love from the fans for their band.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm totes cool with people even refusing to sign anything, as long they don't throw tantrums over it (I remember someone telling a story of JLB asking a dude who asked him to sign WDADU like "eh man I wasn't on it, why do you need my signature"), but this was literally just a guy showing up at a signing, not asking MP to sign his ADTOE shirt. Pretty big difference there.

[Madman Shepherd]

I'm totes cool with people even refusing to sign anything, as long they don't throw tantrums over it (I remember someone telling a story of JLB asking a dude who asked him to sign WDADU like "eh man I wasn't on it, why do you need my signature"), but this was literally just a guy showing up at a signing, not asking MP to sign his ADTOE shirt. Pretty big difference there.

Yeah...if there was something else to sign, it'd be fine.  I would just hope they would consider the fact that it may be the only thing they have to sign. 

[PetFish]

I fucking hate how he always backpedals and says something like

"Can't we all just get along ? : ) "

It's pathetic.

I really hope he NEVER does anything with DT, or even JP/JR again, even if it means no more LTE, no live 12SS, or no live TBoT.  His non-stop terrible and classless attitude towards anything post MP is completely off a cliff now, not to mention the hypocrisy of his attitude "say what you want and do what you want, but I'm going to get upset if you don't like what I say or do".

The current DT guys have been nothing but class since the split.  Remember when JR did that heartfelt piano improve (even singing) the day it happened?  That's class and respect right there.  The DT crew being quiet and professional this entire time is also total class.  Classsy class.  Class.

At first I felt sad for the MP character, and then I felt WTF for the MP character, and then I felt *facepalm* for the MP character, and now I wish the MP character would just go away.

[Zook]

Well said























PETDICK!

[a51502112]

 

[Mosh]

I'm totes cool with people even refusing to sign anything, as long they don't throw tantrums over it (I remember someone telling a story of JLB asking a dude who asked him to sign WDADU like "eh man I wasn't on it, why do you need my signature"), but this was literally just a guy showing up at a signing, not asking MP to sign his ADTOE shirt. Pretty big difference there.

JLB seems like the sort of guy who would've signed it anyway if the fan really wanted.

[PetFish]

Well said
*snip*
PETDICK!

Rush me to the burn unit! 

[Nel_Annette]

Oh man, I was on that forum that day, PetFish. I felt so bad for you too, because I know you didn't mean it in an offensive way at all. (I actually agreed with you.)

[Grizz]

MP was my favorite part of DT.

His outbursts of stupidity make me sad.

[Sycsa]

Just sign what the fans ask unless its a copy of Mein Kampf or something.  That might be a little awkward.

Well said

PETDICK!

Lesson learned: don't eat and read DTF at the same time, now I gotta clean up my keyboard at the office. 

BTW, when I first saw the article on FB, I thought it was a joke. After everything, I still didn't think he'd go this far. How'd those lyrics go? Oh yeah, Kindness - it's not that hard.

[Grizz]

I don't think he's being unkind, per se, so much as immature.