Biggest DT-related disappointment

[voncorn]

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[rumborak]

And the DT show in KC back in April.

Seriously, how does anyone think that concerts at deafening levels sound good?

DT does. You will hear on the Boston DVD how James says that it isn't metal if it isn't loud.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Loud =/= Defeaning, but that could've been what James meant. It was way louder than it needed to be. Kev is the only one here (I think) that can compare the KC show to others, so he could probably provide the most insight into that.

Where you at the Boston show, rumborak?

[TAC]

This year's show in Boston was freaking way too loud. I realize it's such a  Fogey to say and all, but IT WAS!

[KevShmev]

The KC show was deafeningly loud.

The Chicago show, which I saw four nights earlier, was perfect volume.

[rumborak]

Where you at the Boston show, rumborak?

Yup. At some point I took out the earplugs and it was so insanely loud that my ears were "clipping".

[Dublagent66]

DT12 by a long shot.

With the exception of parts of IT, it is their most phoned-in and uninspired work to date, an absolute dreck that is so embarrassing for DT that it makes Systematic Chaos look like their magnum opus (bit of an exaggerated simile, but you get the idea).

Yeah, I think that pretty much nails it for me too.  There are only 3 songs on DT12 that I would call decent and IT definitely isn't one of them.  Weakest album since WDADU and I rank SC and BC&SL higher and those aren't even in my top 8.

SDOIT
I&W
SFAM
Awake
FII
ToT
8VM
ADTOE
BC&SL
SC
DT12
WDADU

[Onno]

Portnoy leaving (though I think MM is great and fits well if not better with the rest of the band) and DT12.

[Tick]

I am greatly disappointed with the fans who don't appreciate how brilliant  DT12 is. I love the insanely well-crafted songs on this record! I could not have been happier with the release, and Mangini shows what a beast he is on drums on this record! Truly one of the best albums in the career of Dream Theater!

[KevShmev]

Having had a bit more time to consider how DT12 compares to their other albums, I would say its highs don't reach the highs on most of the other albums, but its lows are higher than the lows on the majority.  It's a very consistent album; most of the songs are in the good to very good range; nothing bad, but nothing totally outstanding either.  In other words, if I did a DT top 100, almost every song from it would probably be in the 35-70 range.

[RaiseTheKnife]

This year's show in Boston was freaking way too loud. I realize it's such a  Fogey to say and all, but IT WAS!

Agreed.  I was there too.  A classic opera house is not acoustically situated for a metal show, unless that metal band makes concessions in volume.

[rumborak]

Having had a bit more time to consider how DT12 compares to their other albums, I would say its highs don't reach the highs on most of the other albums, but its lows are higher than the lows on the majority.  It's a very consistent album; most of the songs are in the good to very good range; nothing bad, but nothing totally outstanding either.  In other words, if I did a DT top 100, almost every song from it would probably be in the 35-70 range.

I could agree with that. At the same time, I would say the issue is not so much what DT12 *is*, but what rather what it is not.

[rumborak]

This year's show in Boston was freaking way too loud. I realize it's such a  Fogey to say and all, but IT WAS!

Agreed.  I was there too.  A classic opera house is not acoustically situated for a metal show, unless that metal band makes concessions in volume.

Speaking of concessions, the best sound in the venue was actually at the upstairs concession stand, in the hallway. I got some beer there and took my earplugs out; it was a good volume there and you could hear stuff quite well (which however shows you how loud it was inside, since there was a hallway and fire doors inbetween).

The ushers also quickly fled the inside of the theater. They were all sitting in the hallway because it was too loud inside.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I just now realized how many times someone has said "DT12" as an answer to the question in the OP. Glad to see it getting all the love.

I am greatly disappointed with the fans who don't appreciate how brilliant  DT12 is. I love the insanely well-crafted songs on this record! I could not have been happier with the release, and Mangini shows what a beast he is on drums on this record! Truly one of the best albums in the career of Dream Theater!

Definitely agree with the bolded statement, but if a majority of the fanbase hates it, ehh whatever, I say let 'em (I don't mind having the dissenting opinion for once lol).

[TAC]

This year's show in Boston was freaking way too loud. I realize it's such a  Fogey to say and all, but IT WAS!

Agreed.  I was there too.  A classic opera house is not acoustically situated for a metal show, unless that metal band makes concessions in volume.

The ushers also quickly fled the inside of the theater. They were all sitting in the hallway because it was too loud inside.

I swear there were like a dozen of them hanging out by the front door!

[King Postwhore]

I agree about the levels.  I haven't had my ears ringing like that in a long time.

[bosk1]

I really can't think of any major disappointments.  And I have to work a bit to think of minor ones, although I can name a few.  FII was definitely a disappointment at first.  But after awhile, I came to really appreciate most of the songs. 

I was a bit disappointed by the fact that DT cut their touring schedule a bit short and never really did a proper U.S. headline tour for Black Clouds. 

I was also a bit let down by the last two 12SS installments.  With TROAE, they appeared to realize that the songs could benefit quite a bit by being more concise.  Then they went the other direction with the last two, which both contained some definite gold, but feel like they far overstay their welcome.  The Shattered Fortress, in a way, exceeded expectations in that it took some previous themes and riffs that were already quite good and really elevated them.  But at the same time, there were just too many reprises and difficult transitions for it to feel as cohesive as I thought it should. 

Again, in the grand scheme of things, these are pretty minor. 

[Tick]

I was a bit disappointed by the fact that DT cut their touring schedule a bit short and never really did a proper U.S. headline tour for Black Clouds. 

This. I didn't like the Progressive Nation concept as a whole. I wanted way more DT on those tours!

[tedesco23]

I just now realized how many times someone has said "DT12" as an answer to the question in the OP. Glad to see it getting all the love.

I am greatly disappointed with the fans who don't appreciate how brilliant  DT12 is. I love the insanely well-crafted songs on this record! I could not have been happier with the release, and Mangini shows what a beast he is on drums on this record! Truly one of the best albums in the career of Dream Theater!

Definitely agree with the bolded statement, but if a majority of the fanbase hates it, ehh whatever, I say let 'em (I don't mind having the dissenting opinion for once lol).

I really don't think a majority of the fan base is represented here. To my ears, DT 12 is one of their best releases ever, certainly top 3.

Biggest disappointment: Kevin leaving. I remember when word trickled out back then--I'm not sure how I found out, maybe the Ytsejam mailing list?--and it left all of us floored.

[TAC]

I found out when they hit the stage on the opening night of the tour in Providence. Some dude with short hair was playing keyboards, and it wasn't Kevin Moore.

[Grizz]

Where you at the Boston show, rumborak?

Yup. At some point I took out the earplugs and it was so insanely loud that my ears were "clipping".

Same here. Wasn't the loudest show that my dad has been to though.
The treble was causing the clipping it would seem, and the bass was so muddy.
The bootleg doesn't represent it well. The taper is a cool guy, but he also recorded the Worcester show. Both boots suffer from pure mud in the bass that makes the bass drums inaudible in a way that other recordings and the real thing aren't.

But yes, I wish the shows were better sounding (I was in Boston and New York).

[Madman Shepherd]

Having had a bit more time to consider how DT12 compares to their other albums, I would say its highs don't reach the highs on most of the other albums, but its lows are higher than the lows on the majority.  It's a very consistent album; most of the songs are in the good to very good range; nothing bad, but nothing totally outstanding either.  In other words, if I did a DT top 100, almost every song from it would probably be in the 35-70 range.

Thats a pretty good assessment although I would differ when it comes to TBP and IT with I think are excellent songs and probably as good or near as good as anything. 

I was a bit disappointed by the fact that DT cut their touring schedule a bit short and never really did a proper U.S. headline tour for Black Clouds. 

This. I didn't like the Progressive Nation concept as a whole. I wanted way more DT on those tours!

Now that you mention it, I agree with this.  Hadn't thought of it but yeah, the bands differed too much and really all I wanted to hear was DT.

[KevShmev]

Having had a bit more time to consider how DT12 compares to their other albums, I would say its highs don't reach the highs on most of the other albums, but its lows are higher than the lows on the majority.  It's a very consistent album; most of the songs are in the good to very good range; nothing bad, but nothing totally outstanding either.  In other words, if I did a DT top 100, almost every song from it would probably be in the 35-70 range.

Thats a pretty good assessment although I would differ when it comes to TBP and IT with I think are excellent songs and probably as good or near as good as anything. 

I think those two and Surrender to Reason are the best of the lot, for sure, but I can't call any of them a top 20 DT song or anything like that.  I like to update the mp3 CDs I make for my car every so often, and when I was redoing the DT one recently, now that enough time has passed since the release of DT12, I realized I only had room for two of the four really long songs I'd want to put on there (ACOS, 8V, TCOT and IT), and I realized that while 8V and ACOS were no-brainers, it was tough getting either of the other two on there.  If I thought IT was a top 20 tune, I would have found a way to put it on there.  I still like it a lot, don't get me wrong, but they simply have several dozen songs that are better, IMO.

[PixelDream]

Overall, I'd say the loss of dynamic range in their recordings. I just blasted Awake on a really good audio system in the car. It was a sonic rollercoaster ride. I wouldn't even dare to put on DT12 after it. The difference in quality would be so big it's almost laughable.

[Sacul]

I'm so pissed by the fact that we may never see a LTE 3. Both albums are freaking amazing, and all the members can rise up and shine.

[KevShmev]

I'm so pissed by the fact that we may never see a LTE 3. Both albums are freaking amazing, and all the members can rise up and shine.

True, but it's been too long and all of the guys are in completely different head spaces now, so the odds of them channeling the same vibe they had back in '98/'99 are slim to none.  Sure, it'd still be good, but I fear it would be just good, not great. 

[ToT-147]

People saying that SC, BC&SL, Raw Dog, and even the all-mighty ToT, sucks.. 

That is and, unfortunately, it will be my biggest DT-related disappointment..

[PD: a recent one (I mean that I recently heard about) and this time related directly with the band: the "tributes" to another bands in 6DoIT, the song...]

[Bolsters]

That's more of a DT-fanbase-related disappointment.

[robbob]

I have to say DT12, it's not a bad album by any stretch, but it's very bland. Very few riffs or instrumental sections that are memorable. IT is good and Surrender to Reason are my 2 favorites though. I think Rumborack said it best (I would say the issue is not so much what DT12 *is*, but what rather what it is not)

It's surprising the opinions people have when comparing DT12 to ADTOE. ADTOE is a great album IMO. The foursome of OTBOA, Outcry, BAL and BiTS are all better than anything on DT12.

[ToT-147]

DT-related disappointment anyway.. 

[BlobVanDam]

That's more of a DT-fanbase-related disappointment.

I don't know, at times I consider the fanbase to be one of DT's biggest disappointments.

[wolfking]

I'm surprised how much people in here dislike DT12.  I don't remember reading so many negative views on it after its initial release.  I could easily be wrong though.

[Bolsters]

I'm surprised how much people in here dislike DT12.  I don't remember reading so many negative views on it after its initial release.  I could easily be wrong though.

Well for me personally (even though I didn't make any posts about disappointment with DT12), it just hasn't aged very well at all. I wasn't ever head over heels for it, but I was definitely more favourable towards it initially, than I am now.

[wolfking]

I'm surprised how much people in here dislike DT12.  I don't remember reading so many negative views on it after its initial release.  I could easily be wrong though.

Well for me personally, it just hasn't aged very well at all. I wasn't ever head over heels for it, but I was definitely more favourable towards it initially, than I am now.

I guess this general view could explain a lot.

[Mosh]

And the DT show in KC back in April.

Seriously, how does anyone think that concerts at deafening levels sound good?

DT does. You will hear on the Boston DVD how James says that it isn't metal if it isn't loud.

This is so surprising. The Denver show I went to was one of the quietest metal concerts I've heard. It was a great volume, every instrument was clear and nothing was overbearing.