Great tour show - Really minor complaint

[Setlist Scotty]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

Dangit Tim - how DARE you go against the grain!!!! Where's that controversial thread...?

Yeah, right. I think I said it all the time. How can Enigma Machine catch all this praise when Raw Dog catches the shit. It's like OMG they put an instrumental on an album. Really? If that's their idea of an instrumental, just write lyrics over it. It's not like EM sucks. I do enjoy it, but I thing Raw Dog gets a Raw Deal.

I certainly don't think Raw Dog is a great song, but I don't mind it and I wouldn't put it at the bottom of my list of DT favorites. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the hate for it is subconsciously because MP was largely behind it being put together and because it's his swansong with the band, considering how much unnecessary blame is attributed to MP on this board.

[TAC]

I think that's exactly right, Scott.

No, Raw Dog doesn't have the beauty of Erotomania, or the innocent passion of Ytse Jam, but I think it rocks.
I think it's an awesome testament to their King Crimson influence. And I don't even like KC. It's a hell of a lot better than Lark Tongues, which is a waste of tape.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

[TAC]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

It's all subjective. It's cool. If you want boring, there's always Hell's Kitchen.

[bosk1]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

It's all subjective. It's cool. If you want boring, there's always Hell's Kitchen.

This post perfectly illustrates why post count is important.  If you post enough crazy, far-out opinions, you will eventually just luck into posting something sane and rational.  This is that post.

[Setlist Scotty]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

It's all subjective. It's cool. If you want boring, there's always Hell's Kitchen.

This post perfectly illustrates why post count is important.  If you post enough crazy, far-out opinions, you will eventually just luck into posting something sane and rational.  This is that post.

Except you picked the wrong post Bosk!   

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

It's all subjective. It's cool. If you want boring, there's always Hell's Kitchen.

I agree with you 100% on that.

[TAC]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

That surprises me, seeing as how many people dislike it. I went and listened to it again after seeing your comment and don't really see why it's as despised as it is. I personally find it rather boring, but it's not as bad as some people say IMO. I think EM is more interesting and I love the spy-ish vibe I get from it, but after all, that's completely subjective.

It's all subjective. It's cool. If you want boring, there's always Hell's Kitchen.

This post perfectly illustrates why post count is important.  If you post enough crazy, far-out opinions, you will eventually just luck into posting something sane and rational.  This is that post.

You know it, bro!

[rumborak]

Interesting how Raw Dog was brought in comparison to Enigma Machine. I think both suffer from the same bad concoction: Meandering progressions, and lackluster, over-the-top solos.

[Zook]

Hell's Kitchen? Boring? The fuck?

[Grizz]

Hell's Kitchen? Boring? The fuck?

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Boring compared to some other instrumentals they've done I think. Petrucci's solo is great, but the rest of the band doesn't do much of anything interesting, that I can hear, at least. It's only 4 minutes though, so it doesn't feel drawn out as long as Raw Dog. I still enjoy HK, but less so than a good bit of other DT songs.

I haven't listened to FII for a while though, and was presently surprised by HK went I listened to it again. That album has grown on me quite a lot recently... I used to rank it much lower.

[Zook]

Hell's Kitchen is all about the atmosphere.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Hell's Kitchen is all about the atmosphere.

It seems most of FII is that way, which is something I had a hard time coming to terms with when I first listened to the album. I felt the same about Octavarium's intro, but I've definitely started to appreciate that sort of thing more.

[BlobVanDam]

Playing the songs as they were written is unexciting?

Actually, yes. Some songs on LALP are downright plodding because they are played at CD speed. There is a reason why just about any band on this planet plays their songs faster live than what's on the album. It's the energy of the live setting that then gets reflected in the rendition of the song.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Scotty!

I agree, and I mentioned this when it first came out. I think the majority of songs were fine, but TROAE, OTBOA, TSCO in particular come across really flat to me on LALP.
OTBOA sounds lifeless to me on ADTOE, but I was hoping it would translate well live. Vocals aside, I couldn't tell the two renditions apart. The outro of TSCO didn't elevate the song and felt like it was being held back and all at the one level. And TROAE just felt that bit too restrained, especially once it hit the instrumental section.

Due to the differences in performance, what works perfectly in the studio doesn't necessarily work as well live, so I think sometimes a slightly faster tempo is necessary to get the right live energy and recapture the feel of the song. I don't know that there's any formula to it, it just depends on the song.

There were some songs that MP played much too fast for my liking (mostly the ballady stuff), but they were always free to find what tempo worked live, and you were getting something different to just the studio version. Those kinds of little changes are often what makes seeing a live show for me interesting.

[hefdaddy42]

Nope. I'm serious. I like Raw Dog. I don't get the dislike for it.

Dangit Tim - how DARE you go against the grain!!!! Where's that controversial thread...?

Yeah, right. I think I said it all the time. How can Enigma Machine catch all this praise when Raw Dog catches the shit. It's like OMG they put an instrumental on an album. Really? If that's their idea of an instrumental, just write lyrics over it. It's not like EM sucks. I do enjoy it, but I thing Raw Dog gets a Raw Deal.

I certainly don't think Raw Dog is a great song, but I don't mind it and I wouldn't put it at the bottom of my list of DT favorites. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the hate for it is subconsciously because MP was largely behind it being put together and because it's his swansong with the band, considering how much unnecessary blame is attributed to MP on this board.

I strongly disagree.  I don't think that any of the dislike for Raw Dog has anything to do with MP whatsoever.  Most people just don't like it.  MP wasn't the only musician in the room when that piece was written and recorded, and I have never seen him singled out for the blame for how it turned out.

[BlobVanDam]

Raw Dog was a quick instrumental whipped up for a bonus disc with a video game. I think the circumstances are largely to blame for it not being a great track. Would anyone expect the next Metropolis in that situation?

EM on the other hand has no such excuse for being that weak.

[Madman Shepherd]

Raw Dog is a fine song when it happens to come on if I have my ipod on shuffle.  I just never have the desire to listen to it.  I don't have much of a desire to listen to instrumentals anyway so that doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with the song Raw Dog in and of itself. 

[KevShmev]

BTW, I'm still curious as to your thoughts on the live performances vs. the studio originals of those two songs - what do you think?

I'm not a Maiden fan, so I have no opinion on that one.

As for The Spirit of Radio, it's always a little more exciting live, but I don't think the P/G video version is really faster, so much as Peart plays some of the fills at a faster and more furious pace, which is definitely cool.  The pace of the song sounds about the same to me, or maybe it's just that they always play it a tad faster live and I am just used to it.  Most of the songs on that concert video do have crazy energy, though.

[Madman Shepherd]

So the solution is that DT speeds up the click track I guess?

[Grizz]

Or they could dump the click track along with the backing tracks (harmonizer pedals?) and feed off the audience energy to match the tempo.

[Setlist Scotty]

So the solution is that DT speeds up the click track I guess?

In cases where the video timing is tightly tied to the song, yes. Otherwise, what Grizz said:

Or they could dump the click track along with the backing tracks (harmonizer pedals?) and feed off the audience energy to match the tempo.

[Plasmastrike]

My complaints: Ending the first set with Breaking All Illusions instead of The Bigger Picture and playing to a click.

Honestly was a phenomenal show though. Great stuff.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm not a Maiden fan, so I have no opinion on that one.

As for The Spirit of Radio, it's always a little more exciting live, but I don't think the P/G video version is really faster, so much as Peart plays some of the fills at a faster and more furious pace, which is definitely cool.  The pace of the song sounds about the same to me, or maybe it's just that they always play it a tad faster live and I am just used to it.  Most of the songs on that concert video do have crazy energy, though.

It's amazing how much faster the Maiden song was played live in comparison to the studio version, which is plodding and I never liked much. The live version actually makes it appealing to me. Not that it matters to you!

Regarding the Rush track, check it out for yourself to see the difference in tempo:
https://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5QylVq8enyk&start1=118&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjQUDiCiNlqQ&start2=4&authorName=Sped+up+Rush+for+KevShmev
It's not that much, but it's enough that it makes a difference!

[Madman Shepherd]

So the solution is that DT speeds up the click track I guess?

In cases where the video timing is tightly tied to the song, yes. Otherwise, what Grizz said:

Or they could dump the click track along with the backing tracks (harmonizer pedals?) and feed off the audience energy to match the tempo.

I can understand people wanting slightly faster version but ditching the backing tracks that give it the more full sound?  no thanks. 

[Setlist Scotty]

I can understand people wanting slightly faster version but ditching the backing tracks that give it the more full sound?  no thanks. 

And have to do it old school - like actually live?!?!? *shock* *horror*

Really they don't need a timed click track to make it happen. If Rush, a band of 3 guys now in their 60s, can pull of triggering various samples live, then you should be able to expect a younger band that has 2 more members (especially one referred to as "the wizard") should be *more* than capable of doing the same. I'm not buying it. Remember JP's motto: WWRD?

[King Postwhore]

I wasn't put off at all from the backing tracks.  Seen it with Rush and it enhances the show.  I think it took Rush time to balance playing with a click track and then having extended parts of songs for certain songs.   Also changing the setlist on the second leg was a smart thing to do.

[hefdaddy42]

For me, they have played all of their tours up until now without a click, even with video productions, and they have always put on great shows.  I wish they would go back to playing without it, and just be the great musicians they are.

[rumborak]

Exactly that. They played TDOE without click live, so clearly they are perfectly able to play their own stuff.
The backing tracks add very little IMHO, but take away all the spontaneity.

[King Postwhore]

Well for us DT fans, them not changing the setlist from night to night adds to the lack of spontaneity as well.

[KevShmev]

I'm not a Maiden fan, so I have no opinion on that one.

As for The Spirit of Radio, it's always a little more exciting live, but I don't think the P/G video version is really faster, so much as Peart plays some of the fills at a faster and more furious pace, which is definitely cool.  The pace of the song sounds about the same to me, or maybe it's just that they always play it a tad faster live and I am just used to it.  Most of the songs on that concert video do have crazy energy, though.

It's amazing how much faster the Maiden song was played live in comparison to the studio version, which is plodding and I never liked much. The live version actually makes it appealing to me. Not that it matters to you!

Regarding the Rush track, check it out for yourself to see the difference in tempo:
https://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5QylVq8enyk&start1=118&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjQUDiCiNlqQ&start2=4&authorName=Sped+up+Rush+for+KevShmev
It's not that much, but it's enough that it makes a difference!

Okay, cool.

As for the Maiden thing, that description reminded me of Judas Priest's Victim of Changes, where the studio version is very plodding, while the live version is so much faster, it's almost like a different song.

[King Postwhore]

And BTW  I agree with all of you about the click track.  I don't want it either.

[Laughingplace56]

I think good examples of songs that benefit from a faster pace are Sacrificed Sons (the second half), Octavarium (second half), and TTTSTA. The Test was sped up on Budokan and Score and makes the song infinitely more fun live. At LaLP, it lacked the energy those 2 live albums gave it.

They never sped the song up, but TSCO also lacks a LOT of energy on LaLP as opposed to Score or LSFNY or even the studio version, honestly. It just lacks the feeling of the entire song, imo.

Speeding songs up for the hell of it is nonsense, but speeding them up a little to make them more energetic and fun live is perfectly fine and way more fun, imo.

[Madman Shepherd]

I can understand people wanting slightly faster version but ditching the backing tracks that give it the more full sound?  no thanks. 

And have to do it old school - like actually live?!?!? *shock* *horror*

Because .003478% of their sound ISN'T live, then the band is not considered "actually live?"

[cyberdrummer]

I saw another great show at Sonisphere last weekend, especially considering it was a festival set. My VERY minor complaints are:

- MM's ride is always mixed way too low - I've seen DT v. MM six times now, and it happens every time.
- MM needs to use his crash instead of his hi-hats for the bit at the start of Overture 1928 where it all kicks in

That is all.