"The Best of Times - Mike Portnoy Vocal Demo"

[TAC]

I like TCOT better.

Actually so do I. I was referring to what Chad was saying about the lyrics. I should have said 75%.

[King Postwhore]

 


I AM NOT GETTING INVOLVED WITH WHICH OF THOSE 2 LYRICS ARE BETTER!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Mike is not a singer. Mike should avoid singing lead vocals, imo. Being a vocalist for 25+ years I have a good ear. Mike sings more flat notes than good ones. James does the song far better. James is the pro, Mike is not.

Maybe not as much as Mike, but James sounds flat to me too.

No, he's perfectly in tune.

And definitely the JLB version for me. I mean, I know the song is special to Mike and I do feel his emotion, but as Tick said James LaBrie is a better singer overall.

Also, I do not think the MP vocal version is as godly and perfect as MP fans in youtube argue it to be so passionately. It's a vocal demo, a guideline for James' better version. I can easily understand that MP's vocal version has more value to his family than the album version, but come on.

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, but where it all boils down to me in the end is that it's just another DT song used in a DT documentary, nothing more.

I always had the impression that what they would have done for the doc is just to have a brief listen of DT's discog and pull out impactful, docu-ready parts out of it? Doesn't mean they knew or paid attention to what the song was about.

I can't believe that the "if you can't do better, don't criticize" argument is still being tossed around, it's senseless.

Yeah, but in this case, people assume writing great song lyrics is way easier than it looks, and one of the ways to remedy that is for the person to give it a try themselves.

[TheGreatPretender]

James LaBrie is a better singer overall.

Lol, that's an understatement.

[rumborak]

What does that even mean, "overall"? In absolutely every aspect of singing JLB is a better singer. Fuck, I'm a better singer than MP, by a good amount.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Easy, folks. I didn't wanna sound like "JLB absolutely slays MP's singing abilities" because some people take MP criticism very seriously (including MP himself) 

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I actually really like this song, and don't understand the hate it gets. Not one of my favorites, but it's an enjoyable and emotional track.

[BlobVanDam]

What does that even mean, "overall"? In absolutely every aspect of singing JLB is a better singer. Fuck, I'm a better singer than MP, by a good amount.

Prove it. I want LTL on my desk by 5.

[TheGreatPretender]

Easy, folks. I didn't wanna sound like "JLB absolutely slays MP's singing abilities" because some people take MP criticism very seriously (including MP himself) 

Seriously though, the more I hear MP's backup vocals on live albums and concert footage and stuff, the more it reinforces my opinion that MP just isn't a very good singer, in general. I mean, his screaming is cool, and his loud falsetto can be interesting, but when he's just singing, he usually sounds kind of whiny and nasal. And even though JP has a hard time hitting the right notes, he still sounds better.
By the way, I'm not trying to turn this into a "Who's a better singer, JP or MP" lol.

[Mladen]

I enjoy the MP vocal demo, it's a nice addition to the collection because it's always fun when a band shares some demos or unfinished song versions with the fans. MP sings it well and one can tell he's truly feeling the lyrics, but still, I like the way James sings it much better. James adds a whole dimension to it.

[425]

but when he's just singing, he usually sounds kind of whiny and nasal.

Keep in mind that this is sometimes something he is clearly doing on purpose. I can't think of a DT example at the moment, but the first thought that comes to my mind is the line "More never is enough" (around the 8:20 mark) on Transatlantic's Stranger In Your Soul, if you're familiar with that song.

[TheGreatPretender]

but when he's just singing, he usually sounds kind of whiny and nasal.

Keep in mind that this is sometimes something he is clearly doing on purpose. I can't think of a DT example at the moment, but the first thought that comes to my mind is the line "More never is enough" (around the 8:20 mark) on Transatlantic's Stranger In Your Soul, if you're familiar with that song.

I'm actually not, but on purpose or not, I don't think it sounds good at all. And you know, that's the problem, he's trying to add this stylistic 'swagger' to his singing, and it only makes it more annoying. And if he didn't, well, no, he doesn't sound nasal in the Best of Times demo, but then he just lacks style period. He's hitting the notes, but he just sounds like a generic guy singing. Bottom line is, he's not a very good singer. He has a decent ear for music, so he's able to hit the right notes when he intends to, but his singing voice is not every interesting to listen to, and he sure as hell doesn't have a fraction of technique or range that James does.
All I'm trying to say is, he's a great drummer and he shouldn't quit his dayjob to be a front man.

Although, if you ask me, I'd say the same applies to Dave Grohl, and yet...

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah, I get you. I'm not a big fan of his "normal" singing as well, as I usually cringe a little whenever he sings in Transatlantic's live shows/recordings. Also, I do get the "swagger" feel in his singing (live, mostly) that is pretty hard to digest.

[Tick]

Yeah, I get you. I'm not a big fan of his "normal" singing as well, as I usually cringe a little whenever he sings in Transatlantic's live shows/recordings. Also, I do get the "swagger" feel in his singing (live, mostly) that is pretty hard to digest.

On a professional level, Mike is a terrible singer. That's the long and short of it. If I saw him singing in a bar in a bar band his vocals wouldn't bother me much because most bar singers suck. It is what it is.
It makes me laugh when I go on vocal auditions the bands generally freak out when I perform.
They say things like..."Wow dude, you can actually sing! Nice job! Almost all the guys will have had come in suck really bad."
I have heard that many times.
The fact he keeps taking leads vocals on Transatlantic records is bothersome to me, but what are you gonna do. I generally skip those songs when they come on if at all possible.

[rumborak]

I usually end up skipping "There's a fool in my heart" as well because of the vocals. They're just not good.

[Zook]

MARK PORTNEY IS A TERRIBLE SINGER AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF. HIS SONG THE WORST OF RHYMES IS A DISGRACE TO DREM THATRE MUSIC.

[Tick]

I usually end up skipping "There's a fool in my heart" as well because of the vocals. They're just not good.

"This fool loves you still" - Flattest line in any song I have ever heard. How that made the record blows my mind. Its awful.

[seasonsinthesky]

MARK PORTNEY IS A TERRIBLE SINGER AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF. HIS SONG THE WORST OF RHYMES IS A DISGRACE TO DREM THATRE MUSIC.

(OP is a troll anyway, this is deserved)

[Jaq]

And people say in another thread that the OP isn't a troll 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

MARK PORTNEY IS A TERRIBLE SINGER AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF. HIS SONG THE WORST OF RHYMES IS A DISGRACE TO DREM THATRE MUSIC.

INDONESIA SOON

[TheGreatPretender]

I usually end up skipping "There's a fool in my heart" as well because of the vocals. They're just not good.

"This fool loves you still" - Flattest line in any song I have ever heard. How that made the record blows my mind. Its awful.

I really didn't mean to turn this into "Bash MP's singing" thread, but yeah, my point simply is that MP just isn't a good singer. I understand wanting to do backup vocals on stage, in order to give JLB another layer, or harmonies, but I don't really understand why he started doing harmony vocals on the albums in the first place, when in the studio setting JLB could've done it himself.

[rumborak]

In general there's nothing wrong with wanting to sing backing vocals. And in fact, the non-main singer doing backing vocals is preferable because it adds a different texture to the whole thing.
What irked me was how lackadaisical MP went about it. The same guy who (according to Lifting Shadows) almost kicked out JLB for lacking vocal performances, did horrendously shoddy backing vocals on LSFNY that really marred the DVD. You would think that, with all the meticulous execution of their songs, MP would be painfully aware of the flaws of his vocal skills and work on them.

[TheGreatPretender]

In general there's nothing wrong with wanting to sing backing vocals. And in fact, the non-main singer doing backing vocals is preferable because it adds a different texture to the whole thing.

That may apply if the backup vocals are at least good. And while MP's harmony vocals on albums like SFAM and on were never noticeably bad to the point of being jarring, I just don't understand why he suddenly got the idea that he could sing.

[Skeever]

I remember MP saying he had "perfect pitch" or something, which was pretty ridiculous 

When JP and MP started doing harmonies, they should have gotten lessons, because both guys really bring down the live DVDs. And these days, JLB is getting to the point where he really needs the backup singers live. It's a shame that they have had to resort to having harmony vocals prerecorded for their live shows. Really takes away from things IMO

[BlobVanDam]

I remember MP saying he had "perfect pitch" or something, which was pretty ridiculous 

If you think that's ridiculous, then you clearly have no idea what perfect pitch actually is. It has nothing to do with singing.

In general there's nothing wrong with wanting to sing backing vocals. And in fact, the non-main singer doing backing vocals is preferable because it adds a different texture to the whole thing.
What irked me was how lackadaisical MP went about it. The same guy who (according to Lifting Shadows) almost kicked out JLB for lacking vocal performances, did horrendously shoddy backing vocals on LSFNY that really marred the DVD. You would think that, with all the meticulous execution of their songs, MP would be painfully aware of the flaws of his vocal skills and work on them.

JLB's vocals on LSFNY aren't exactly perfectly executed either. I remember that being the first time I'd ever heard DT live, and it was very disappointing hearing that the live band didn't match up to the studio albums at the time. Luckily they turned that around.
And for backup vocals, MP was good, better than JP.

[TheGreatPretender]

And for backup vocals, MP was good, better than JP.

No, definitely not.

[BlobVanDam]

And for backup vocals, MP was good, better than JP.

No, definitely not.

He had much better range and control. I think people are just too biased by their feelings about his lead vocals to give him the credit. JP has a very nice tone, but his range and pitch are very limited, and since MP left it's backing tracks more often than not.

[hefdaddy42]

Not sure that it matters whether JP or MP is the better background vocal.  Those aren't two stellar choices, and the difference either way isn't great.

[Skeever]

I remember MP saying he had "perfect pitch" or something, which was pretty ridiculous 

If you think that's ridiculous, then you clearly have no idea what perfect pitch actually is. It has nothing to do with singing.

Having "perfect pitch" implies you can recognize notes and sing them accurately.

Actually I think MP is the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

How much time did Mike put into singing? Did he take any lessons or classes for it? faq id: 25
MP: I took Ear Training at Berklee. I think my ear is better than my voice. In fact, I have relative pitch (sometimes perfect pitch if you catch me on a good day) which is very unusual for a drummer. My voice is my voice and I just do my best.

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/7.aspx

That makes no sense.

[BlobVanDam]

I remember MP saying he had "perfect pitch" or something, which was pretty ridiculous 

If you think that's ridiculous, then you clearly have no idea what perfect pitch actually is. It has nothing to do with singing.

Having "perfect pitch" implies you can recognize notes and sing them accurately.

It means you can recognize and identify notes, it doesn't mean you have a great voice by any means. That's as reliant on your vocal cords and vocal training, unless maybe you literally can't hold a tune, which is obviously not the case here. I have perfect pitch, and I don't have a terribly good voice either. But it means I can tell that I'm singing badly! When you're singing near the top of your natural range and can't physically hit the notes, perfect pitch ain't gonna help you.


His statement could make sense, keeping in mind that he's not talking from a musically trained perspective, so he's not using the terms in the strictly correct way there. You either have perfect pitch or you don't, and if he has it, I assume he hasn't trained his ear actively/comprehensively because he's not working with notes like the other guys even when he is involved, so there may be times where he can display it, and more times where he can't.

I didn't train my ear for that stuff until I found out what perfect pitch was and got more into writing music, so before that time, despite always having perfect pitch, I couldn't have named any notes or recalled notes on cue, except one or two notes that I'd recognized over time just from messing around with music. MP's description would fit that situation, if he indeed has it.

[Tick]

I remember MP saying he had "perfect pitch" or something, which was pretty ridiculous 

If you think that's ridiculous, then you clearly have no idea what perfect pitch actually is. It has nothing to do with singing

Of course it does.

[TheGreatPretender]

It means you can recognize and identify notes, it doesn't mean you have a great voice by any means. That's as reliant on your vocal cords and vocal training, unless maybe you literally can't hold a tune, which is obviously not the case here. I have perfect pitch, and I don't have a terribly good voice either. But it means I can tell that I'm singing badly! When you're singing near the top of your natural range and can't physically hit the notes, perfect pitch ain't gonna help you.

It's not just about exceeding your range. It also depends on vocal control. Training and practicing helps you hit the right notes because you gain more and more control over your voice. But yeah, having perfect pitch is about hearing, not about executing.

You either have perfect pitch or you don't,

I hope you know, it's possible to train yourself to have perfect pitch, if you don't have it. A slow, daunting and tedious process that I gave up on way too soon.  But it's doable.

[BlobVanDam]

It means you can recognize and identify notes, it doesn't mean you have a great voice by any means. That's as reliant on your vocal cords and vocal training, unless maybe you literally can't hold a tune, which is obviously not the case here. I have perfect pitch, and I don't have a terribly good voice either. But it means I can tell that I'm singing badly! When you're singing near the top of your natural range and can't physically hit the notes, perfect pitch ain't gonna help you.

It's not just about exceeding your range. It also depends on vocal control. Training and practicing helps you hit the right notes because you gain more and more control over your voice. But yeah, having perfect pitch is about hearing, not about executing.

I did mention vocal training in that post. I mentioned range just as one example of why someone with a great ear could still sing very flat. I didn't mean it's the main reason.

You either have perfect pitch or you don't,

I hope you know, it's possible to train yourself to have perfect pitch, if you don't have it. A slow, daunting and tedious process that I gave up on way too soon.  But it's doable.

Eh, that's not perfect pitch. That's merely note memorization. Perfect pitch is a lot more than that, and on a much finer scale than can be taught, it's traits that you've always had regardless of any training, and that training cannot duplicate.

[hefdaddy42]

My interpretation was that perfect pitch has to do with the ear, not the voice.

IIRC, JR has perfect pitch, and he is not known for his wonderful singing voice, either.