Could DT carry on with just JP?

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Also, I'm sad my poorly shopped picture only got one laugh!   

It's shopped? I thought that was legit

[gentaishinigami]

Sorry, I meant my totally legit scan of DT17 cover.   

[Madman Shepherd]

But the comparison to Tony Iommi and Black Sabbath is a good one.  I never thought of Black Sabbath as "his" band, but apparently Tony Iommi thought so at some point. 

The point that he thought so was when every other member quit and he was the only one left with the name. 

[Orbert]

But there's still the question of whether you even call it Black Sabbath when it's obviously not the same band that anyone would consider Black Sabbath, or any form of it.  Sure, you might be legally allowed to call it that, but that doesn't mean you should.  And seriously, "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi"?  That's the official name of the band on Seventh Star.  Nothing like saying "Hey, look, I'm still in the band, in fact I'm featured!  It's still Black Sabbath, really!"




Okay, I do get it.  I understand that the name recognition of Black Sabbath is greater than the name recognition of Tony Iommi, and the record label pushed for the former in order to maximize sales.  After all, sales are more important than artistic integrity.  But when Seventh Star came out, even though I wasn't even following Black Sabbath anymore, I still was both amused and disappointed, for obvious reasons.  Look at the cover; he actually looks like he's thinking "I'm the only one left."

Based on name alone, Dream Theater will sell more albums than a John Petrucci solo album, but if the band broke up, or something happened to everyone else and JP was the only one left, it seems to me that JP would have the good sense to not just make his next solo album a Dream Theater album, unless he truly felt that the new band embodied the spirit of Dream Theater.  (Wow, that's a long, awkward sentence!)  Some weird part of me thinks that it's important to honor the name of a band that put you on the map in the first place.

[MoraWintersoul]

edit: disregard

[rumborak]

Yes. But with the stipulation that no new members are added, the band will consist solely of JP.

Like this?

https://youtu.be/nDLrpG0DCqI

[olddtfan51@gmail.com]

I really doubt it. it just wouldn't be dream theater anymore.

[TheGreatPretender]

Based on name alone, Dream Theater will sell more albums than a John Petrucci solo album, but if the band broke up, or something happened to everyone else and JP was the only one left, it seems to me that JP would have the good sense to not just make his next solo album a Dream Theater album, unless he truly felt that the new band embodied the spirit of Dream Theater.  (Wow, that's a long, awkward sentence!)  Some weird part of me thinks that it's important to honor the name of a band that put you on the map in the first place.

Don't be so sure. Sure, the band is great as it is now, and it seems like all the guys are getting along, but they're still all individual people with individual beliefs. As such, what truly represents the spirit of Dream Theater to JP might be different than what it means to James LaBrie, or Jordan Rudess, or Myung. So what Dream Theater is now, is the combination of what it represents to all of them, combined. And already in terms of sound and vibe of it, we can see a significant difference from what it had been for the last 4 years with Mike Portnoy.
So what I'm saying is, if it was just JP left, and he put another band together, he might feel that it captures the true spirit of Dream Theater, even though it might be a very foreign vibe to the rest of the fans.

Let's just hope we never have to find out first hand.

[Orbert]

It sounds like you're basically agreeing with what I said.  JP has his idea of what Dream Theater is all about.  If he somehow ends up being the only one left, and he puts together an album by a band which to him is enough like Dream Theater to be called Dream Theater, then he would feel justified in doing so.  What the other current members of the band think embodies DT is irrelevant, because in this hypothetical situation, they are no longer in the band.  So I didn't mention them.

[TheGreatPretender]

It sounds like you're basically agreeing with what I said.  JP has his idea of what Dream Theater is all about.  If he somehow ends up being the only one left, and he puts together an album by a band which to him is enough like Dream Theater to be called Dream Theater, then he would feel justified in doing so.  What the other current members of the band think embodies DT is irrelevant, because in this hypothetical situation, they are no longer in the band.  So I didn't mention them.

I guess so. I'm just saying that what he feels the spirit of DT is isn't necessarily something the majority of the fans would agree with. Just because we love the band, and have seen enough interviews to know that the members are awesome, down to earth guys, doesn't necessarily mean that our brains are all on the exact same wavelength when it comes to what DT represents to each of us.
You mentioned him having the good sense to only do that if he felt the music captured the true spirit of DT, but that doesn't mean that that good sense would be in sync with what everyone else thinks.

[Orbert]

True, but that's irrelevant.  JP has his idea of what Dream Theater "really is".  Presumably, this is not antithetical to what the majority of fans think it is, but he can't possibly please everyone, and he can't possibly ask every DT fan what they think DT "really is".  Therefore, all he can do is use his own judgement.  It would be his right.  And a lot of people would agree, some would disagree, some would be downright pissed off ("This sounds nothing like Dream Theater!  The singer is totally different!") but that's how it goes.

My post was also somewhat in response to the issue of "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" using that as an example of how not to do it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Although, if Tony Iomi is any indication, then eventually, the band would come full circle and find itself exactly where it needs to be.

[Orbert]

One would hope.  But this is all hypothetical anyway.  We don't know what would happen.

It's a mystery. 

[TAC]

.  Look at the cover; he actually looks like he's thinking "I'm the only one left."

Yeah you're right!

"Where'd everyone go?"

[King Postwhore]

.  Look at the cover; he actually looks like he's thinking "I'm the only one left."

Yeah you're right!

"Where'd everyone go?"

If memory serves, it was a solo album that the record company forced him to use the Black sabbath name. 

[TAC]

Thats true, King. I think O alledes to that in his post.  Its actually not a bad album.

[King Postwhore]

I can't be bothered to read posts!


Maybe I should. 

[Madman Shepherd]

But there's still the question of whether you even call it Black Sabbath when it's obviously not the same band that anyone would consider Black Sabbath, or any form of it.  Sure, you might be legally allowed to call it that, but that doesn't mean you should.  And seriously, "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi"?  That's the official name of the band on Seventh Star.  Nothing like saying "Hey, look, I'm still in the band, in fact I'm featured!  It's still Black Sabbath, really!"

As was already mentioned, it was supposed to be a solo album and just be "Tony Iommi".  At the eleventh hour the record company said they were going to call it Black Sabbath but say that it featured him since the original deal was for a solo album.  So its not his fault but I will concede that the album cover sucks and yes, it does indeed look like he is saying "All my fwiends aw gone"


Not a bad album though but my least favorite Sabbath album.  Eternal Idol and most of the Tony Martin albums were freakin' badass though.

Although, if Tony Iomi is any indication, then eventually, the band would come full circle and find itself exactly where it needs to be.

Uh, if we are using that analogy then you are saying James LaBrie should waddle around the stage and scream at the crowd to "Go fucking crazy"

Also, announce Mike Portnoy is coming back and then retract that and decide to get Peter Wildoer for the tour (but not him or MP on the album)?

[dragonmaster715]

Could DT carry on if everyone but JP was replaced? Sure. Would they still be DT? Not at all. I feel JP is the biggest contributor to the band's sound, but at the same time, every member plays apart. I feel though as long as at least two of the current members (Mangini doesn't count) are still in it, and JP is one of them, the band can carry on.

[CharlesPL]

https://www.metalrocknews.com/2014/05/synyster-gates-and-zacky-vengeance-vs_27.html

Vote on JP.

[TAC]

The guy's name is Zacky Vengeance??
WTF.? That's cool?
I wonder what names he considered but didn't make it!

[King Postwhore]

They are cool guitarist.

BTW,  Unless DT stop releasing album and tour as a nostalgia act, they could not tour without JP.    I look at bands like Foreigner that has the main writer and cog still in the band, Mick Jones,  but they still barely wire new music.  DT is not that type of band that tours on it's past.

[rumborak]

Weellll ... I gotta be honest, that last Boston gig had a bit of a nostalgia element to it, what with half of the gig dwelling on their "big albums".

[Rodni Demental]

For Dream Theater to be a Nostalgia act, the only songs they'd get to play would be Pull Me Under, parts of I&W, SFAM and maybe a few other specific songs. I don't think the Awake anniversary relates to this in anyway, I think it's more just a nod to some older material they haven't played in a while. Which results in some interesting coverage with some slightly obscure songs receiving some recognition.

Also, I feel there's a differences between celebrating your history, and becoming a band that relies on nostalgia.

[King Postwhore]

Weellll ... I gotta be honest, that last Boston gig had a bit of a nostalgia element to it, what with half of the gig dwelling on their "big albums".

That the "Hot" thing to do right now while most nostalgia band play no new music.

[gentaishinigami]

https://www.metalrocknews.com/2014/05/synyster-gates-and-zacky-vengeance-vs_27.html

Vote on JP.

What the hell kind of poll puts two guitarist versus one 

Seems awfully unfair, but then again those two added together still can't touch Petrucci in musical knowledge and skill on the guitar. 

Edit:  Voted 3 times, but really it's not worth it to keep voting.  Crappy site keeps forcing a popup fake flash update window every time I reload the page so they seem pretty shady for allowing that on their site.

[Sycsa]

Weellll ... I gotta be honest, that last Boston gig had a bit of a nostalgia element to it, what with half of the gig dwelling on their "big albums".

They played 8 songs off the last two albums, 2 obscure, never-before-played songs, Trial of Tears, Lifting Shadows, Finally Free after roughly a decade...I think the setlist is about as fresh as it can get for a mega-act, legendary band like Dream Theater. They'd be among the last bands (besides Rush) that I'd label as a "nostalgia act." Oh, and Queensryche is now kinda legally bound not to be one, which is hilarious.

[obscure]

No. Because JLB.

[TheGreatPretender]

No. Because JLB.

Yeah, let's just go with that.

[Rodni Demental]

https://www.metalrocknews.com/2014/05/synyster-gates-and-zacky-vengeance-vs_27.html

Vote on JP.

It saddens me that JP is not even slightly going to win this... I guess A7X is still more recognisable and popular. I mean in all fairness, they're not bad guitarists by any means, but I still don't think they could touch JP. And their latest album is... boring. They've lost all the energy and flare that originally made the old stuff appealing. And what's up with the new drummer? Talk about a downgrade from The Rev and Portnoy.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I've never been a huge A7X fan to begin with. In the grand scheme of metal they're vastly overrated mostly by teenagers I would suppose, but Hail to the King was one of the most mediocre metal albums I've ever heard in recent memory.

[Rodni Demental]

Yeah, Avenged Sevenfold does tend to represent that mainstream metal scene. But I think they had more humble origins, and were somewhat unique in there style at first. I used to appreciate some of their stuff because the drumming was generally above average. But now... err...

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I was (and still am) a fan of A7X. But  hell I can't stand HTTK... I've listened through it once, and forgot I was listening to it. I tried again and fell asleep (I'm not joking). The only "good" song on the album as far as I'm concerned is St. James, and it's a bonus track. I like their previous albums a lot (although I'm a not a huge fan of  STST) and I listened through Nightmare about 3 days ago.

Haner and Baker do some cool stuff, although I refuse to call them those ridiculous stage names. I still don't think they can touch JP, but that poll is pretty much a popularity contest anyway.

[obscure]

No. Because JLB.

Yeah, let's just go with that.

[?]

The A7X guitarists may be talented, but I've heard a few songs from their latest album on the radio and they sounded like leftovers from Metallica's Black Album.