Poll: SC & BC&SL are 2 of DT's greatest albums.

[rumborak]

What is this thread.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I actually really like both albums in question, though DT's 2 greatest to me are still Awake and Images.

[jammindude]

What is this thread.

We have a saying, Rumby: "Meck-a-leck-a-hala-vabeem-sala-beem"

[BlobVanDam]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

[Zook]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

[BlobVanDam]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

No they're not.

[Zook]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

No they're not.

Yes they are.

[Mladen]

Yes.

In my opinion, Dream Theater has seven great albums, and both SC and BC&SL are among them. Unfortunately, they're right at the bottom of that top 7, but they're still terrific.

[KevShmev]

The real head scratcher to me, is when I see people lumping SC and 8V together as being very similar to each other.   That's baffling to me.   Octavarium is DT's masterpiece IMO.    I think every note on that album is sheer perfection, and every song has an aspect of why I love the diversity of Dream Theater.    The only mild flaw in the diamond is the "chicken soup for the soul" lyrics in The Answer Lies Within.    But even that is surrounded by so much awesome sauce that it's really easily ignored.    There is no awesome sauce surrounding any of the flaws in Systematic Chaos.   It is just a mess.

I lump them together simply because I feel that they are easily the band's two least best albums, and since they are back-to-back, it's easy for me to view them together as the short era where the band's songwriting was lacking a little bit, especially when compared to what came before and after those two albums. 

[BlobVanDam]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

No they're not.

Yes they are.

Are we just going to go back and forth on this forever?

Because they're not.

[Zook]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

No they're not.

Yes they are.

Are we just going to go back and forth on this forever?

Because they're not.

They are times infinity.

I win.

[BlobVanDam]

Well this poll doesn't leave much room for inbetweens. I voted a definite no, but they're good albums, and still much better than DT's worst.

... But they are DT's worst.

No they're not.

Yes they are.

Are we just going to go back and forth on this forever?

Because they're not.

They are times infinity.

I win.

They are not, Falling Into Infinity +1

I win!

[Zook]

Shit.

[jammindude]

I'm with Zook.....yes they are...

[CharlesPL]

2 worst DT albums,IMO.

[?]

Both SC and BC&SL are in my bottom 3 (along with Octavarium), so no.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not a big fan of BC&SL, but Systematic Chaos is pure eargasm all the way through.

[robwebster]

Not a big fan of BC&SL, but Systematic Chaos is pure eargasm all the way through.

Pretty much! Systematic Chaos is a cracking listen, full of interesting songs and genuine surprises you're not going to get anywhere else. BCSL is just a good DT album, but in the context of their catalogue, that puts it quite near the bottom.

So it's a "No," from me, OP, but I like where you're coming from.

[RoeDent]

Aside from WDADU, they're bottom of my rankings. They lean too far towards the metal side of the prog-metal scale. Sure, they've got some good songs on them, but overall they're spoiled by the attempts at growling vocals (which I absolutely despise anyway).

[BlobVanDam]

Aside from WDADU, they're bottom of my rankings. They lean too far towards the metal side of the prog-metal scale. Sure, they've got some good songs on them, but overall they're spoiled by the attempts at growling vocals (which I absolutely despise anyway).

By my count, only 2 songs on SC have "growling" vocals at all. BCASL has it included in a lot more songs, but the whole thing is still blown out of proportion. It's over 11 minutes before the "growl" section of ANTR even kicks in.

[krands85]

SC is pretty decent, but still in my bottom half of DT albums. ITPOE and TMOLS are both awesome, most of the rest of the album is enjoyable, but fairly average. Except for Repentance which is one of my least favourite DT songs. I seem to enjoy the album more than most though.

BC&SL is much weaker and would probably be my least favourite DT album if WDADU had better production and JLB. However, DT usually still manage to put out a couple of brillliant songs even on their weaker albums - in this case, it's TCOT and ANTR. The rest of the album is very meh and I dislike TBOT as much as Repentance. The record suffers from having songs that are too long I think. I've always preferred the longer tracks, but most of Black Clouds could do with a trim, even ANTR. SC has this problem on certain tracks too, but not to the same extent.

[425]

Aside from WDADU, they're bottom of my rankings. They lean too far towards the metal side of the prog-metal scale. Sure, they've got some good songs on them, but overall they're spoiled by the attempts at growling vocals (which I absolutely despise anyway).

By my count, only 2 songs on SC have "growling" vocals at all. BCASL has it included in a lot more songs, but the whole thing is still blown out of proportion. It's over 11 minutes before the "growl" section of ANTR even kicks in.

Besides, there aren't any real growls on either anyway, unless you count the roar on ANTR. On both albums, it's legitimately Mike singing with some grit.

Though, Blob, I'm not sure if he isn't counting The Slaughter of the Damned gang part and the Prophets rap.

In any case, on BCSL, with the exception of ANTR, all the harsh stuff is backing vocals, and it appears under one verse of AROP, one verse of TSF, and four words of TCOT. And I think it adds to all those songs.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Why bother making this poll? lol. It's obvious that most of the forum isn't crazy about those two albums.

[mikeyd23]

To the OP, I voted no, but like many have expressed in this thread, I feel like there are certainly great elements on both albums but I just can't call them "2 of the greatest"... Not even close.

SC is a fun album, when it came out me and a few buddies spun that CD like everyday, loved some of the tracks off of it, others not so much.  Come to think of it, for me, BC&SL is a similar album in that regard, some great moments and songs, but weighed down by some other moments and songs that tend to be bloated at times, or just aren't good.

So are they horrible albums, no way! Are they 2 of DT's greatest, not to me!  I hate doing album rankings because that sort of changes on a consistent basis for me, but if I was ranking these albums I'd probably consider them mid-to-low tier albums in the DT discography. 

[Outcrier]

I thought it was a troll pool, near voted yes.

[jakepriest]

Both are better than Images&Words but nowhere top 2.

[KevShmev]

Both are better than Images&Words

You're a funny guy.

[Kotowboy]

I think Black Clouds could have been a much better album with some editing. Some of the songs are definitely just long for the sake of it.


By the time the "stunned and bewildered" part comes back at the end after all the soloing - you're like - JFC this song is STILL going...


It's over half the length of Octavarium and it says about two things. It has the heavy section and the mellow section. Octavarium does a LOT more in it's first 16 minutes.

[jakepriest]

Both are better than Images&Words

You're a funny guy.

I think that album is just incredibly overrated. 

[kirksnosehair]

Aside from WDADU, they're bottom of my rankings. They lean too far towards the metal side of the prog-metal scale. Sure, they've got some good songs on them, but overall they're spoiled by the attempts at growling vocals (which I absolutely despise anyway).

THIS

[Kotowboy]

I think Black Clouds contained several examples of what was going wrong with DT at that time.

[TL]

I don't dislike SC or BC&SL, but I do like most of their other albums more.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

What would you guys point to as "growling vocals"? One section in Nightmare, and I guess some in The Dark Eternal Night?

It just seems odd to say the records are spoiled by something that makes very sparing appearances. If they weren't there, would the albums then become your favorites?

[JiM-Xtreme]

BC&SL is most definitely a top 2 album for me. I think only SFAM could possibly beat it as far as I'm concerned. While I certainly don't think SC is a bad album, it's not even really in the same league as BC&SL. Overall, however, I'd say they're both pretty underrated - especially around these parts! 

[Zook]

What would you guys point to as "growling vocals"? One section in Nightmare, and I guess some in The Dark Eternal Night?

It just seems odd to say the records are spoiled by something that makes very sparing appearances. If they weren't there, would the albums then become your favorites?

The only "growling" vocals on BCSL are the "I's" in The Count. Anything else from Portnoy were "tough guy" vocals.

And no, the songs would still have been mediocre. And for me, it isn't even the MP vocals that ruin the songs, it's just the overall blandness. The solo section after "Beautiful Agony" is worse for me than "day after day" because it's so uninspired. I don't mind trade off solos, but the ones in Nightmare are pretty bad. "day after day" just makes me laugh.