Another top 50 thread v. son_ov_hades

[Invisible]

Your loss , it's actually a pretty short album so it's a shame but hey... You should at least listen to Another Hand/The Killing Hand performance, everything else it's been done on other live albums, although not as great, at least on the JLB department.

[son_ov_hades]

There are just so many opinions on this thread that made me , HOW CAN ANYONE CALL THEMSELVES DT FANS AND NOT LISTEN TO LIVE AT THE MARQUEE?!?!??!

Great to see To Live Forever and Lie on the list! Both great songs I haven't seen get that much love

Yeah I agree on all counts. 

[son_ov_hades]

#40  Raise the Knife




The only song from the Falling Into Infinity sessions that I really wish made it on the album. Don't get me wrong, I think all the scrapped songs are good, but this one is really really good. The opening riff is one of my favorites Petrucci has ever played, seriously. When Derek comes in with the sort or organ sound I really fall in love with his style all over again. James has a weird vocal on this song, I can't explain what is so unusual about it, but in the opening lines it is very apparent to. This is something I love, and it works so well. That break down at the "Spilling your guts out to a pad and pen" is such a great moment and totally uncharacteristic for the band. I really like the background vocals in the chorus, the subtle harmonies compliment LaBrie's melody very well. The instrumental section toward end is good, but doesn't end up doing a whole lot. What stand out more than anything to me is Mike Portnoy's extremely powerful drumming. I probably should have put this higher, and Dream Theater(or the label) probably should have put it on Falling Into Infinity.

#39  Strange Deja Vu



In case you don't know yet, I freaking love Scenes From A Memory. Coming into this from Overture 1928 to start the first proper song of the album and the story is just perfect. Right from the beginning Strange Deja Vu is strong and driving thanks to a heavy back beat by Portnoy and very meaty riffing by Portnoy. When the chorus comes in you think the song will slow down and lose steam, but oh no it kicks right back at you with an awesome clean tone riff. James' vocal delivery here is incredible, especially "back on my feet again eyes open to the real world". As with the whole album, the use of background vocals is perfect and adds a whole layer to the song. The song ends with a piano interlude that teases at what's to come, just writing about it makes me want listen to the whole album it just flows so well. Great, great song that should be higher.

[Invisible]

Great update! Not sure where I'd put them but great songs.

Raise The Knife is one of the leftovers of FII that I just don't understand why it didn't make the album, probably not my favourite of the B Sides though and I would have reworked some of the sections(especially the instrumental part that doesn't really do anything for the song), but it's great as it nonetheless.

Strange Deja Vu is an awesome start for the proper story, though I'm not sure if it would make it to my Top 50 as Scenes songs don't work as well on their own as in the context of the album, where they absolutely shine. And yep, the middle section "back on my feeeeet again!" is one of my favourte DT moments.

[Crow]

Even you seem to disagree with your own placements 
Neither of these songs is especially strong for me but both are alright. I really don't know what more to say about them. They're both very firmly "meh" in my book.

[jakepriest]

Raise The Knife is a tad bit overrated I feel. I never felt it's a strong song at all.
Strange Deja Vu is probably the worst SFAM song. I just get kinda bored listening to it. Luckily the rest of SFAM is kickass.

[son_ov_hades]

Great update! Not sure where I'd put them but great songs.

Raise The Knife is one of the leftovers of FII that I just don't understand why it didn't make the album, probably not my favourite of the B Sides though and I would have reworked some of the sections(especially the instrumental part that doesn't really do anything for the song), but it's great as it nonetheless.

Strange Deja Vu is an awesome start for the proper story, though I'm not sure if it would make it to my Top 50 as Scenes songs don't work as well on their own as in the context of the album, where they absolutely shine. And yep, the middle section "back on my feeeeet again!" is one of my favourte DT moments.

Yeah Raise the Knife is better than You Not Me, Burning My Soul, Anna Lee, and Just Let Me Breathe I don't see why it would be left off. I agree that most of Scenes works better with context, but most of the album are also great great songs.

Even you seem to disagree with your own placements 

I'm happy with my placements, its just that so many songs are really fucking good  . If I could I'd have 5 number 1s.

[son_ov_hades]

Before I continue with the list I figure it'd be fun to list my top 5 worst Dream Theater songs. Also,  I expect at least one person to rage at each choice. 

#5 As I Am



A really cool opening riff that speeds up and really makes me think this is gonna be a good song is ruined by LaBrie's woefully lame vocals. That spoken/sung part is awful, and the chorus is bad too. The music is not bad, decent actually, and Petrucci's solo is pretty cool. This is the only song I can think of that James' vocals are just bad throughout. He's usually quite awesome, and at least adequate but not here. It ruins the song for me.


#4 Build Me Up, Break Me Down



This song is just so god damn boring. Nothing happens at all in the entire song, ever. I keep waiting for an interesting part to come, or even a blatantly terrible part, but no nothing. An otherwise great album is brought down by this cure for insomnia.


#3 A Nightmare To Remember



Mike Portnoy really liked Opeth and Opeth is a great band, but Dream Theater will never be Opeth and this attempt fails so much. The whole first section is just extremely boring; not a single riff, beat, or vocal holds my interest. Then the beautiful agony section comes in and tries to redeem the song. Honestly I like this part quite a bit, don't know why its here or what it has to do with the rest of the song but I like it. If "Beautiful Agony" was a song of its own it would probably make my top 50. And that's what makes this song even worse, they take some great ideas and throw them in with downright awful ones and ruin a good thing. After a jarringly abrupt transition we're back to the main part of the song and its worse the second time around. And Portnoy comes in with his ridiculous tough guy vocals, OH GOD WHY?!?  When I first heard this I said, "They need to fire Mike Portnoy". Oh and the song goes on for another 4 minutes of monotony and I'm asleep by the time it finishes.


#2 Honor Thy Father



The first time I heard this song I thought it was Slipknot. Everything about it screams nu metal. In 2003 everyone had already realized nu metal was the worst thing ever though so Train Of Thought makes no sense at all in that regard. Metallica was also into nu metal in 2003 and St. Anger is great too.  Here we find James LaBrie rapping again, who thought this was a good idea?! The lyrics don't help at all either, I mean they're laughably bad. Korn made a career out of bitching about their childhoods and appealing to goth kids, which was bad enough, but the fact that this song is played by men in their mid 30s(and late 40s in Rudess' case) just makes it even more embarrassing. Terrible song.


#1 The Dark Eternal Night



Aaaaand the worst song Dream Theater has ever written is very obviously The Dark Eternal Night. Seriously, fuck this song. There is nothing good about it. That god awful nu metal riff that forms the basis of the song, ugh . Mike Portnoy's Phil Anselmo tough guy impression coupled with Labrie's lead vocals that suck so much they had to throw a million layers of effects on to try and cover them up . The chorus is so lame too. Oh and Jordan hasn't done anything yet so they throw in a bunch of stupid and totally uninteresting synth parts that just meander and go nowhere. As if the song was a mess enough already they decide it would be good to break into ragtime for half a second!  Oh and its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. I mean halfway though I wish it was over and by the end I'm not even paying attention anymore.  this bullshit song 



   

[ThatOneGuy2112]

#2 Honor Thy Father

The first time I heard this song I thought it was Slipknot. Everything about it screams nu metal.

Not this again.

I don't know. It's funny how much shit DT can get for stepping out of their boundary a little bit and yet people still claim they haven't done so enough.

Even if the song supposedly ascribes to the typical "bitching 'bout the childhood" metal of the time, the lyrics are so much more well polished than that of their contemporaries and the rapping section actually flows really well. Like when the verses ended, I got the sense that James poured hat anger into his performance the best way he could. Took a while for that section to grow on me, but hell, did it ever. It's not my favorite song in the world, but never could this song even graze the bottom 5 in all of DT's catalog.

[Crow]

5: More meh than anything, one of the weaker ToT songs for sure though (one of two that didn't make my top 50, and well...)
4: Actually the worst DT song.
3. Best song of the five here but I can understand hating it. Not *that* bad though.
2. Yeah this song I've never cared for either, though again not *that* terrible.
1. I hate this one too but it at least has a few redeeming qualities that make it not quite worthy of being called the worst DT song (though close)

[son_ov_hades]

I don't know. It's funny how much shit DT can get for stepping out of their boundary a little bit and yet people still claim they haven't done so enough.

Stepping out of their boundary is one thing, writing awful songs is another. Hollow Years, I Walk Beside You, Never Enough, You Not Me, hell even Space Dye Vest were all songs that stepped out of their boundary at the time and those are all good songs.

5: More meh than anything, one of the weaker ToT songs for sure though (one of two that didn't make my top 50, and well...)
4: Actually the worst DT song.
3. Best song of the five here but I can understand hating it. Not *that* bad though.
2. Yeah this song I've never cared for either, though again not *that* terrible.
1. I hate this one too but it at least has a few redeeming qualities that make it not quite worthy of being called the worst DT song (though close)

Seems like we agree more on what we hate than what we like. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Stepping out of their boundary is one thing, writing awful songs is another. Hollow Years, I Walk Beside You, Never Enough, You Not Me, hell even Space Dye Vest were all songs that stepped out of their boundary at the time and those are all good songs.

I can agree with those first three, though YNM is pretty dull to me.

I can understand how big of a step between SDOIT and TOT they knew they were taking in terms of musical direction. Something like that was obviously a conscientious decision on their part and I'm sure they knew that in the end they were gonna alienate a good portion of their fanbase because of it. I think their efforts paid off greatly. HTF isn't my favorite off of TOT, but still a great song to me. As much as I love DT's more melodic stuff, when they get heavy, for the most part, I can dig it.

[son_ov_hades]

I love their good heavy stuff. Awake is incredible and is a perfect example of writing great heavy songs. I came to Dream Theater through bands like Fates Warning and Queensryche and I'm a huge metal fan, so my problem with Train Of Thought isn't that its heavy, its that it throws good song writing out the window to achieve being heavy.

[Tom Bombadil]

I like As I Am and HTF, but I'm fine with the others being there.

[Outcrier]

I like As I Am and HTF, but I'm fine with the others being there.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

While Awake is heavy, I most often refer to it as "dark" than anything else, though it is an amazing album.

I love their good heavy stuff. Awake is incredible and is a perfect example of writing great heavy songs. I came to Dream Theater through bands like Fates Warning and Queensryche and I'm a huge metal fan, so my problem with Train Of Thought isn't that its heavy, its that it throws good song writing out the window to achieve being heavy.

And that's where we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

I find a lot of the writing gorgeous, at least, as gorgeous as heavy music can be. There's a lot of memorable and jaw dropping riffs, and while they're definitely not the most popular, I love a lot of the instrumental sections those songs have to offer.

[son_ov_hades]

And that's where we're gonna have to agree to disagree. 

[Evermind]

I like As I Am and HTF and ANTR, but I'm fine with the others being there.

FTFM

[Invisible]

Before I continue with the list I figure it'd be fun to list my top 5 worst Dream Theater songs. Also,  I expect at least one person to rage at each choice. 

#5 As I Am
#4 Build Me Up, Break Me Down
#3 A Nightmare To Remember
#2 Honor Thy Father
#1 The Dark Eternal Night

Aaaand you managed to pick 5 songs I actually like, well done sir!

As I Am is a good straightforward rocker, and I like it as it is. Probably not Top 50 material but I think it works live.

BMUBMD I almost agree. It sort of falls into the You Not Me category of bland songs, but the riff and the catchy chorus redeem it more than the other.

A Nightmare To Remember is a really good song, not sure if it would make my Top 50 but it's really good. I don't get what you say about having the Beautiful Agony section alone, as it doesn't make any sense without the previous section. This is a song where the lyrics fit the music perfectly, and I like the way it flows until the tradeoff solo section and the cookie monster appearence which is kind of lame, but anyway it's a good song.

Honor Thy Father is actually one of my favourites of Train of Thought, really crunchy fusion riff between The Mirror and Lie. The music fits the lyrics like a glove, and it's good that they try new angles and I don't think anything immature about it, it's more like "I'm tired of trying to get along with you, fuck off" sort of lyrics. The KM section of Raise The Knife it's a lot more immature IMHO.

The Dark Eternal Night is a kind of silly fun song that I don't think it's meant to be taken very seriously, neither lyrically nor musically. Not Top 50 material but I like it anyway.

It's funny how much shit DT can get for stepping out of their boundary a little bit and yet people still claim they haven't done so enough.

Sadly you're right . 

[son_ov_hades]

Good to see everyone loves my worst song picks.  Here's a song that will  be "too high" and one that will be "TOO LOW WTF" 

#38  Hollow Years



Ah yes that late 90s radio ballad that the label thought would make Dream Theater the next Goo Goo Dolls. In reality this is an extremely well written and complicated ballad disguised as a simple pop song. Petrucci's opening Spanish guitar style licks are beautiful and show again how great of a guitarist the man is. LaBrie delivers the lines with such effortless emotion, he is just as good when a bit restrained as he is doing crazy screams. Hell, his more subdued voice may even be his best. When Sherinian's piano comes in it doesn't stay for long, but it is wonderful. He never overplayed and did what the song needed, Rudess could learn a thing or two . Toward the end when it modulates up Hollow Years really shines. The backing vocals, the piano, the subtle drum fills; its all perfect. This is a great beautiful song, and part of the reason I love Falling Into Infinity as much as I do.


#37  Voices



Awake is a phenomenal album, but it seems to me that the whole is greater than the parts. I originally thought this song would be much higher, and it is fantastic but there are just a bunch of songs I like more. Speaking of Moore , I absolutely love Kevin's tone on this song, especially in the beginning when he's the one in the driver seat. The chorus has some great classic LaBrie moments, that high note is crazy powerful. Portnoy's insane time signature defying playing is on full display here, and works well with the other instruments. I really like these lyrics a lot too, "Withdrawn and introverted
Infectiously perverted Being laughed at and confused keeps us pleasantly amused". I have no idea what they're supposed to mean but I appreciate the poetry. The section after the guitar solo is totally awesome. Petrucci plays a killer riff and Portnoy's double bass work compliments it so well, all the while LaBrie is soaring high above it all.

[jakepriest]

I really like all your top 5 worst picks a lot. So all I can say is: 
Seriously though, Honor Thy Father is a top 20 song for me. The lyrics are great.

And to add insult to injury you put Hollow Years into your top 50. These updates are hearthbreaking. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I actually don't mind Hollow Years. I'm not sure if I would have it in the top 50, but it's a pretty good song that probably gets a bit too much hate.

Voices is too low.

[Tom Bombadil]

Hollow Years is perfectly placed. But Voices is about 30 or so places too low.

[Evermind]

Good to see everyone loves my worst song picks.  Here's a song that will  be "too high" and one that will be "TOO LOW WTF" 

Hollow Years is too low (it was my 25ish) and Voices is too high (didn't make my Top 50 at all). 

But seriously, great update.

[Crow]

Hollow Years is a totally meh ballad all things considered. They have too many better ones for me to ever pay it much mind.

Voices is way too low but you knew that.

[Outcrier]

Voices is too low.

[son_ov_hades]

I really like all your top 5 worst picks a lot. So all I can say is: 
Seriously though, Honor Thy Father is a top 20 song for me. The lyrics are great.

And to add insult to injury you put Hollow Years into your top 50. These updates are hearthbreaking. 

I did warn you that you wouldn't like this list.

Good to see everyone loves my worst song picks.  Here's a song that will  be "too high" and one that will be "TOO LOW WTF" 

Hollow Years is too low (it was my 25ish) and Voices is too high (didn't make my Top 50 at all). 

But seriously, great update.

Hollow Years love  ,  seriously great song and I'm glad to see you like it.

To everyone that said Voices is too low: you're predictable. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

To everyone that said Voices is too low: you're absolutely right.

FTFM

[Invisible]

Hollow Years is a beautiful ballad and it works incredibly well live, and before I heard Speak To Me I would have put it in about the same spot a year ago. Now I have no idea where it would land or if it would make it to the Top 50, so no complaints here. I completely disagree on what you said about Rudess, not only the man have all sort of wonderful ballads(Far From Heaven, Vacant, The Answer Lies Within, etc.) but he also does a wonderful job on this track live, and complimenting every other ballad DT has done ever since. He only goes wacky when wackiness is due.

The only complaint about Voices it's not its placement as I have no idea where I would put it myself(probably higher but not Top 10), but the fact that I always listened to A Mind Beside  Itself suite as a whole. But it still holds a special place in my heart as one of the first DT tracks I played over and over again, so a big for putting it on the list.

[son_ov_hades]

Hollow Years is a beautiful ballad and it works incredibly well live, and before I heard Speak To Me I would have put it in about the same spot a year ago. Now I have no idea where it would land or if it would make it to the Top 50, so no complaints here. I completely disagree on what you said about Rudess, not only the man have all sort of wonderful ballads(Far From Heaven, Vacant, The Answer Lies Within, etc.) but he also does a wonderful job on this track live, and complimenting every other ballad DT has done ever since. He only goes wacky when wackiness is due.

The only complaint about Voices it's not its placement as I have no idea where I would put it myself(probably higher but not Top 10), but the fact that I always listened to A Mind Beside  Itself suite as a whole. But it still holds a special place in my heart as one of the first DT tracks I played over and over again, so a big for putting it on the list.

I love Rudess, but I've always thought he overplayed Sherinian's parts. Hollow Years from Budokan is a perfect example, the subtly is gone. The ballads that he's been a part of are much better, and a few make an appearance later on this list. I don't want to spoil it so I won't say any more.

[Laughingplace56]

Hollow Years is a bottom 10 DT song. I hate the chorus and the repeated lines at the end of the song and the verses are ridiculously boring. The intro acoustic guitar solo is heavenly though, and JP's solo on LAB is amazing. Other than that I don't like the song.

Voices gets way too much praise imo. It's a very good song, but not OMGZ AMAZING. It's a top 50 worthy song, but I didn't include it in mine cuz there were 50 other songs better than it

as far as your bottom 5:

As I Am: Top 50 song. Awesome riff, LOVE the prechorus and chorus, and the solo is incredible. Don't know how anyone could hate it 

Build Me Up, Break Me Down: I understand your reasoning and it's definitely on the boring side, but not bottom 5 for me. It's still somewhat fun to groove to. But basically very straightforward and not fully engaging.

A Nightmare to Remember: I actually think if Beautiful Agony was taken out and the rest was trimmed a bit, the song would be a top 50 song. The BA part is ok, but man does it drag the song down and make even longer than it has to be.

Honor Thy Father: HOW. That song comes out and punches you in the face with an explosion of heaviness and awesomeness. This one actually made my top 50.

The Dark Eternal Night: I get how some would put it here, but I actually like it. It's nothing special, but it's fun to play.

[jakepriest]

Hollow Years is a bottom 10 DT song. I hate the chorus and the repeated lines at the end of the song and the verses are ridiculously boring. The intro acoustic guitar solo is heavenly though, and JP's solo on LAB is amazing. Other than that I don't like the song.

Voices gets way too much praise imo. It's a very good song, but not OMGZ AMAZING. It's a top 50 worthy song, but I didn't include it in mine cuz there were 50 other songs better than it

(This)^2.

[son_ov_hades]

Hollow Years is a bottom 10 DT song. I hate the chorus and the repeated lines at the end of the song and the verses are ridiculously boring. The intro acoustic guitar solo is heavenly though, and JP's solo on LAB is amazing. Other than that I don't like the song.

Voices gets way too much praise imo. It's a very good song, but not OMGZ AMAZING. It's a top 50 worthy song, but I didn't include it in mine cuz there were 50 other songs better than it

as far as your bottom 5:

As I Am: Top 50 song. Awesome riff, LOVE the prechorus and chorus, and the solo is incredible. Don't know how anyone could hate it 

Build Me Up, Break Me Down: I understand your reasoning and it's definitely on the boring side, but not bottom 5 for me. It's still somewhat fun to groove to. But basically very straightforward and not fully engaging.

A Nightmare to Remember: I actually think if Beautiful Agony was taken out and the rest was trimmed a bit, the song would be a top 50 song. The BA part is ok, but man does it drag the song down and make even longer than it has to be.

Honor Thy Father: HOW. That song comes out and punches you in the face with an explosion of heaviness and awesomeness. This one actually made my top 50.

The Dark Eternal Night: I get how some would put it here, but I actually like it. It's nothing special, but it's fun to play.

tl;dr You have bad taste. 


I kid I kid. But really if you don't like Hollow Years but you do like Honor Thy Father we have VERY different tastes. That said, I think as we get to the top half there will be less controversy.

[Invisible]

The Budokan solo on Hollow Years is one of the most out of place shred for shredding sake solo that JP has ever done. It's good, but for a completely different song and I don't like it.

[?]

The Budokan solo on Hollow Years is one of the most out of place shred for shredding sake solo that JP has ever done. It's good, but for a completely different song and I don't like it.