The worst part about DT live releases

[TheGreatPretender]

If you're a Blind Guardian fan, you must really hate it when they play The Bard's Song.

I've never seen a Blind Guardian live show, but if the audience must sing along with the actual music, I'd rather listen to the Van Canto version of The Bard's Song. 

[Zook]

If you're a Blind Guardian fan, you must really hate it when they play The Bard's Song.

I've never seen a Blind Guardian live show, but if the audience must sing along with the actual music, I'd rather listen to the Van Canto version of The Bard's Song. 

No, they sing 95% of the lyrics. It's pretty incredible.

[TheGreatPretender]

No, they sing 95% of the lyrics. It's pretty incredible.

That's awesome. The Bard's Song (as is the case with much of power and folk metal) has a very "sing along" style to it that lends itself very well to being sung together in a group. It's probably what inspired a band like Van Canto in the first place.

[KevShmev]

The only time I want to hear the crowd DURING a song is when the singer asks for them to sing along.

Oh, so basically a crowd needs to keep it down so everyone can hear the band?  Heaven forbid fans get excited by the show and make some noise, eh?

And I will reiterate my earlier point that a singer asking the crowd to sing along comes off as lame almost all of the time. 

[wolven74]

The first thing I noticed about LaLP was that the recording was so sterile. I didn't hear the crowd cheering after the songs, singing along during songs, because it wasn't there. I'm curious how the band didn't notice it upon seeing the final product. How could they have approved it sounding like a live in the studio recording? Honestly, while the music is good, LaLP is by far their worst live release. My thought is that the band either didn't notice that there was no audience in the recording, or they weren't allowed final say. Which is really a shame.

[Zook]

You can feel the waves coming on
SING IT!


*chirp chirp chirp*

Damn, I wanna go wherever you are where the crowd is louder than the band. That must be amazing.

[?]

I don't think Luna Park has an unresponsive crowd.  It has an undermixed and underrepresented crowd.

This. You know something's wrong when you can hear more crowd noise on a live release shot in Japan (Live in Tokyo) than one filmed in Argentina. I really like LALP despite this flaw, though.

[TheGreatPretender]

Oh, so basically a crowd needs to keep it down so everyone can hear the band?  Heaven forbid fans get excited by the show and make some noise, eh?

Way to miss the point. I never said that. But the people mixing the live release are better off keeping the crowd silent during the actual songs. I really wouldn't want to listen to a song with random crowd noise throughout the whole thing.
Even if you like it when a crowd sings along with the song, or with the music, it's not like they do it the throughout the entire song for every song, so you'd just end up with people randomly cheering and clapping, which is okay between songs, but during the song, it's just unneeded noise that adds nothing to the music.

[KevShmev]

I would disagree that it adds nothing to the music.  I will use the YYZ example from Rush's Rio concert again, as the crowd singing their own part over the song makes the song that much more awesome, which the band agreed with, hence them leaving the crowd loud in the mix.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would disagree that it adds nothing to the music.  I will use the YYZ example from Rush's Rio concert again, as the crowd singing their own part over the song makes the song that much more awesome, which the band agreed with, hence them leaving the crowd loud in the mix.

When the crowd sings along, that's a matter of taste. I don't like it. Some people do, and that's fine. But like I said, that doesn't happen for every song. Sometimes, they just cheer and scream and clap, and having mixed noise like that throughout a whole concert would add about as much to the music as a bad ground.

[hefdaddy42]

When you say things like this:

the people mixing the live release are better off keeping the crowd silent during the actual songs. I really wouldn't want to listen to a song with random crowd noise throughout the whole thing.

That is what makes me think this:

Maybe live music just isn't for you.

Because I am not aware of the reason for a live recording without random crowd noise.  That would just be like a studio recording.  And I've never heard a performance where the crowd was actually silent during the songs.  Except a symphony or opera or something like that.

Help me out here if I'm misunderstanding you.

[Mebert78]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I get the feeling the audience noise in LALP is canned or something.  For example, I hear the same whistle from someone in the crowd bout every 6-7 seconds.  I can't imagine that someone in the crowd is whistling at the same exact volume at the same exact intervals over and over. 

[nemonius]

Somehow the LaLP feels too sterile to me, maybe because of the missing crowd noice or the filming style... one thing that really jumps to the eye is the video and audio that is out of sync. Can't believe that so basic error is slipped through quality check. After all, we waited quite awhile for the release :/

I like the release, but not the best one maybe not Over the edge next time...

[Prog Snob]

When you say things like this:

the people mixing the live release are better off keeping the crowd silent during the actual songs. I really wouldn't want to listen to a song with random crowd noise throughout the whole thing.

That is what makes me think this:

Maybe live music just isn't for you.

Because I am not aware of the reason for a live recording without random crowd noise.  That would just be like a studio recording.  And I've never heard a performance where the crowd was actually silent during the songs.  Except a symphony or opera or something like that.

Help me out here if I'm misunderstanding you.

My personal take on it is that crowd noise fits in certain places.  There were spots on LALP where I knew the crowd was cheering but - crickets. At the end of the first verse of TSCO on the Score DVD, there was a loud cheer from the crowd.  You can only faintly here it during LALP and I think they should have left it as they did for Score. 

[mikeyd23]

... one thing that really jumps to the eye is the video and audio that is out of sync...

Now its been a few weeks since I've watched LaLP, but I only remember the sync issues from the YouTube videos that were uploaded as previews of the concert.  When I watched the actual DVD, I don't remember noticing any sync issues... Maybe I'm remembering wrong though...

[rickhawk80]

I would disagree that it adds nothing to the music.  I will use the YYZ example from Rush's Rio concert again, as the crowd singing their own part over the song makes the song that much more awesome, which the band agreed with, hence them leaving the crowd loud in the mix.

The singalong to a freakin' instrumental on Rush in Rio is what makes that entire DVD!!!  Insane crowd and awesome experience!!

Generally speaking, I like to hear the crowd on a live release, but not so overwhelmingly loud the whole time that it detracts from the music.  I have any old bootleg of the KISS '77 Tokyo show that was originally planned to be Alive II (it circulates pretty frequently as "The Lost Alive II") and it's just the sterile soundboard recording.  Some KISS bootleg fans rave over it because the audio is so crystal clear.  I don't care for it as much because they could've just recorded it in an empty airplane hangar -- sure, the audio is clear for a bootleg, but absolutely not a single speck of crowd noise to be found anywhere in the show.

[TheGreatPretender]

When you say things like this:

the people mixing the live release are better off keeping the crowd silent during the actual songs. I really wouldn't want to listen to a song with random crowd noise throughout the whole thing.

That is what makes me think this:

Maybe live music just isn't for you.

Because I am not aware of the reason for a live recording without random crowd noise.  That would just be like a studio recording.  And I've never heard a performance where the crowd was actually silent during the songs.  Except a symphony or opera or something like that.

Help me out here if I'm misunderstanding you.

Well, I don't know what kind of a sound system you have, but when I watch or listen to LSFNY, or Budokan or Score, or any other professionally recorded live show from DT, I really can't hear the crowd during the songs. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You're making it sound like the only thing that makes a live performance distinct IS the crowd noise, but if I were to mix a noise of the crowd into a studio recording, that will not make it a live performance. Just the same, a live performance isn't defined by the crowd noise. I think this sums it up pretty well:

There's a lot more to a live album than just the crowd.
A live performance has an energy to it that you don't get in a studio recording, where each instrument is recorded separately, and touched up to perfection. A live performance has an interaction between the band members, and can be an entirely new dynamic to the studio recording, especially in the case of a new lineup.

Like I said, once a song gets going on a live release, I really can't hear the crowd at all, and honestly, I see nothing wrong with that.

[ytserush]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

The best reason to film in South America, especially when you're a band with a very passionate fanbase, is to capture the energy of the crowd.  So why, especially with this release, do we hear James ask the crowd to sing, SEE the crowd singing along with the melodies and words, but hear NOTHING from them?  Its really awkward and takes away from the energy of the live show.  You don't have to mix them super loud.  Just enough so you can still hear them.  Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

I kind of get your point. It was missing on the DVD, but at least the CDs are enjoyable.

The problem for me on Rush In Rio was that the CD's are mixed horribly. Of course the flip side of that is the DVD is otherworldly.

I love South American passion.

[Zook]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I get the feeling the audience noise in LALP is canned or something.  For example, I hear the same whistle from someone in the crowd bout every 6-7 seconds.  I can't imagine that someone in the crowd is whistling at the same exact volume at the same exact intervals over and over. 

Yes, it does sound like it's on a loop.

[LTE3]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

The best reason to film in South America, especially when you're a band with a very passionate fanbase, is to capture the energy of the crowd.  So why, especially with this release, do we hear James ask the crowd to sing, SEE the crowd singing along with the melodies and words, but hear NOTHING from them?  Its really awkward and takes away from the energy of the live show.  You don't have to mix them super loud.  Just enough so you can still hear them.  Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

I think they under did it, but barely. So far I won't even buy an Iron Maiden dvd because the crowd is too loud. Don't interfere with Maidens killer tunes I say. Luna Park has many flaws and low crowd noise is a small one. Why in gods name would you not put the camera on John Myung during his bass riff in On the Backs of Angles. Who misses opps to showcase the silent man. Over all not please with the filming . Love Score (where the  fuck is the blu-ray) and Budokan so much better.

[Zook]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

The best reason to film in South America, especially when you're a band with a very passionate fanbase, is to capture the energy of the crowd.  So why, especially with this release, do we hear James ask the crowd to sing, SEE the crowd singing along with the melodies and words, but hear NOTHING from them?  Its really awkward and takes away from the energy of the live show.  You don't have to mix them super loud.  Just enough so you can still hear them.  Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

I think they under did it, but barely. So far I won't even buy an Iron Maiden dvd because the crowd is too loud. Don't interfere with Maidens killer tunes I say. Luna Park has many flaws and low crowd noise is a small one. Why in gods name would you not put the camera on John Myung during his bass riff in On the Backs of Angles. Who misses opps to showcase the silent man. Over all not please with the filming . Love Score (where the  fuck is the blu-ray) and Budokan so much better.

I'll say it again: the extra loud crowd makes Iron Maiden's live songs even better.

[425]

I think they under did it, but barely. So far I won't even buy an Iron Maiden dvd because the crowd is too loud. Don't interfere with Maidens killer tunes I say. Luna Park has many flaws and low crowd noise is a small one. Why in gods name would you not put the camera on John Myung during his bass riff in On the Backs of Angles. Who misses opps to showcase the silent man. Over all not please with the filming . Love Score (where the  fuck is the blu-ray) and Budokan so much better.

I'll say it again: the extra loud crowd makes Iron Maiden's live songs even better.

This, seriously. Whose favorite version of Fear of the Dark is honestly the studio version instead of the Rock In Rio performance?

[changing_seasons]

The worst part about DT live releases is the constant camera angle shifting. When John Petrucci plays a two minute solo, I want to watch him for two consecutive minutes! Also, I don't like crowd noise.

[rickhawk80]

Whose favorite version of Fear of the Dark is honestly the studio version instead of the Rock In Rio performance?

I really prefer the studio version of "Fear of the Dark" .... said no one ever.   

[LTE3]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

The best reason to film in South America, especially when you're a band with a very passionate fanbase, is to capture the energy of the crowd.  So why, especially with this release, do we hear James ask the crowd to sing, SEE the crowd singing along with the melodies and words, but hear NOTHING from them?  Its really awkward and takes away from the energy of the live show.  You don't have to mix them super loud.  Just enough so you can still hear them.  Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Lets agree to disagree on the maiden crowd noise, and agree Luna Park just about edited out the crowd which is funny because in the promo they stressed totally that this dvd is more about the audience.

I think they under did it, but barely. So far I won't even buy an Iron Maiden dvd because the crowd is too loud. Don't interfere with Maidens killer tunes I say. Luna Park has many flaws and low crowd noise is a small one. Why in gods name would you not put the camera on John Myung during his bass riff in On the Backs of Angles. Who misses opps to showcase the silent man. Over all not please with the filming . Love Score (where the  fuck is the blu-ray) and Budokan so much better.

I'll say it again: the extra loud crowd makes Iron Maiden's live songs even better.

[ReaPsTA]

I don't love a lot of crowd noise in my live songs, but I need something.  Otherwise, it's just a single take recording.

It's really awkward watching the Live in Luna Park songs when the crowd is obviously rocking and cheering to the songs and you can't hear them.  Why would you make this choice?  South America is DT's loudest and craziest fan base.  Why would you make a DVD in South America and not highlight the crowd?

For contrast, I enjoy that Budokan has very little crowd noise.  But that's because it matches the show.  The band is very understated (black and relatively classy styles).  The crowd is super reserved.  The lighting is somewhat intricate and not at all glammy like Live in Tokyo.  Taking that show and making a concert 'film' with very little focus on the crowd makes sense.  Doing this with a South American show does not.

[ZeppelinDT]

Please don't misuse the word "literally". Unless you are able to post video of yourself vomiting with anger, I will have none of it!

lit·er·al·ly adverb \ˈli-tə-rə-lē, ˈli-trə-lē, ˈli-tər-lē\

Definition of LITERALLY

1
:  in a literal sense or manner :  actually <took the remark literally> <was literally insane>
2
: in effect :  virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>
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Usage Discussion of LITERALLY

Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.