The worst part about DT live releases

[skydivingninja]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

The best reason to film in South America, especially when you're a band with a very passionate fanbase, is to capture the energy of the crowd.  So why, especially with this release, do we hear James ask the crowd to sing, SEE the crowd singing along with the melodies and words, but hear NOTHING from them?  Its really awkward and takes away from the energy of the live show.  You don't have to mix them super loud.  Just enough so you can still hear them.  Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

[Cool Chris]

Having to wait for them to be released?

[BlobVanDam]

This has annoyed me for a while, and I'm literally vomiting with anger at Live at Luna Park.

Please don't misuse the word "literally". Unless you are able to post video of yourself vomiting with anger, I will have none of it!

But I agree with your point on LALP. I had no problem with it until TSCO, at which point it stuck out like a sore thumb. Overall I prefer a lower mixed audience, so it didn't bother me as much as it does others, but I get why it bothers some people.

[aprilethereal]

One of multiple mixing problems LALP has that really take away from the enjoyment

[a51502112]

"Vomiting With Anger". Someone HAS to use this as a band name.

[Sycsa]

Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

[KevShmev]

Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

Hogwash.  The crowd noise helps make it awesome!  The crowd singing along to YYZ, an instrumental (!!!), is beyond awesome.

[Sycsa]

Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

Hogwash.  The crowd noise helps make it awesome!  The crowd singing along to YYZ, an instrumental (!!!), is beyond awesome.

That's my biggest gripe exactly. Sans a few examples (Avante Megadeth!) singing along to riffs is super cheesy and annoying, even more so at the concert. I want to hear the damn riff, not your ugly voice shouting it in my ear. And don't even get me started on the obnoxious 'hey hey' chants. My exaggerated for effect $ 0,02, of course. (The girls are really hot though, that remedies RiR).

[skydivingninja]

The thing with crowd noise is, what's the point of a live album if it doesn't really feel live?  Yeah they may do some impromptu musical variations or jams, JLB may sing the melodies a little differently, but it doesn't feel like I'm partying with everyone who was there the way Rush in Rio does.  Part of that is that Rush's live tone is just amazing, but the other part is that the crowd is into it, and you can hear that.  Even if its just some clapping, "heys!" or cheering after some big moments (which granted, Live at Luna Park has a few of those), it contributes a lot.

Blob, I would show you my anger-vomit but its damaged my camera and smartphone.  Sorry bud.

[King Postwhore]

Sky, your anger vomit is a long drop anyway with your height.

I love the live sound with a crowd.  It amps me up listening to it.

[Zook]

The crowd on Maiden's Rock in Rio gives me chills. I love the crowd noise. Why they mute the crowd on DT releases I'll never understand, especially since JLB is always asking the crowd to sing along.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Part of what makes a live release a live release is the crowd, IMO. If you want a flawless recording without crowd noise, that's what the studio versions are for. I do agree that's one of the things that Live at Luna Park is lacking, and now that Mangini's the drummer in the house he's playing all songs at studio tempo, which makes the live tunes more studio-ish. I'm not complaining about that, it's just that the release could have been much, much more awesome in several departments and it's a shame. I still enjoy it very much, though.

[Anguyen92]

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

Hogwash.  The crowd noise helps make it awesome!  The crowd singing along to YYZ, an instrumental (!!!), is beyond awesome.

Agreed.  When Tom Sawyer started as the opener and you can hear 40k people going crazy and singing along (I don't think it is annoyingly, but it adds more good texture to the performance), you got that feeling that this is going to be a kick-ass big time feel show as oppose to a well-played show with a dead crowd (and I feel that way, at times, with DT's live releases).

Anywho, yeah, I'm little miffed, at times, when JLB say "sing this with me," and I can't hear anything from the crowd which kinda makes the performance a little awkward. 

My view on live releases is that as long as the crowd is not obnoxious-sounding and has good passion and it shows in the dvd when they are singing along to an emotional song, it creates a moment that you really can't find on a studio release which is a reason why bands keep touring (other than for monetary purposes),

[KevShmev]

Well, a frontman having to tell the crowd to sing along almost always sounds lame to me.  If you have to tell the crowd to sing along, what is the point? 

But yeah, crowd noise almost always makes live releases better.  Like D_L said, if you want a recording without the crowd noise, go listen to the studio version.

[mikeyd23]

...My view on live releases and that as long as the crowd is not obnoxious-sounding and has good passion and it shows in the dvd when they are singing along to an emotional song, it creates a moment that you really can't find on a studio release which is a reason why bands keep touring (other than for monetary purposes),

Yeah man, I agree... As long as the crowd noise isn't overbearing to the point where it makes it difficult for the listener to actually hear the parts the band is playing/singing, I'm all for crowd noise on concert DVDs. 

LaLP is great and I really enjoy watching it, but I would say that the crowd noise issue (meaning a lack of crowd noise) is probably my biggest complaint about the release.

[Jaq]

There needs to be a happy medium. The audience reaction is part of a live release, so not being able to hear it is silly.

Audiences drowning out the band-which is an occupational hazard of South American audiences, who are eternally trying to be better than the first Rock In Rio crowd and can't because that was like  half a million people-is equally annoying. I didn't pay for a release to listen to a crowd try to sing every single note, I listen to the band AND the crowd reactions.

[moof]

Well, a frontman having to tell the crowd to sing along almost always sounds lame to me.  If you have to tell the crowd to sing along, what is the point? 

But yeah, crowd noise almost always makes live releases better.  Like D_L said, if you want a recording without the crowd noise, go listen to the studio version.

I dunno, it's pretty epic when Bruce Dickinson does it.

[JayOctavarium]

Everything Bruce does is Epic.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

I am apt to agree.  Also happens with earlier Megadeth live CD's - too much crowd noise.  I prefer the Luna Park mix for crowd response.

[TheGreatPretender]

Take a lesson from Iron Maiden and Rush!

Um, the crowd noise of Rush in Rio is super annoying and ruins the whole DVD.

Hogwash.  The crowd noise helps make it awesome!  The crowd singing along to YYZ, an instrumental (!!!), is beyond awesome.

That's my biggest gripe exactly. Sans a few examples (Avante Megadeth!) singing along to riffs is super cheesy and annoying, even more so at the concert. I want to hear the damn riff, not your ugly voice shouting it in my ear. And don't even get me started on the obnoxious 'hey hey' chants. My exaggerated for effect $ 0,02, of course. (The girls are really hot though, that remedies RiR).

Thank God! Here I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Even in Megadeth's case, it can get annoying. Like during one of their live releases (in Buenos Aires I believe) when the crowd was singing with the instrumental in She-Wolf! That's one of my favorite Megadeth instrumental sections and it was totally ruined!
Having the crowd sing along with the opening riff in ACOS on LSFNY was just as bad though.

But that's singing with instrumentals. I really wouldn't mind it if they mixed the crowd in a little bit when they're actually singing the lyrics, like in TSCO. But yeah, I'm not losing my sleep over it. I'd rather not hear the crowd during ANY part of the concert, than hearing them singing along with the riffs and solos.

[MasterLomaxus]

I'm glad someone finally mentioned this.  Other than the drum sound, the lack of crowd...sound, is my biggest cause of displeasure, with this release.

[hefdaddy42]

Like during one of their live releases (in Buenos Aires I believe) when the crowd was singing with the instrumental in She-Wolf! That's one of my favorite Megadeth instrumental sections and it was totally ruined!

It's not ruined.  It's still right there on the studio album, where you first encountered.

The whole point of a live album is interaction with the audience.  As long as they don't drown out the music, it's not too loud.  And they are definitely not loud enough on Luna Park.

[TheGreatPretender]

Like during one of their live releases (in Buenos Aires I believe) when the crowd was singing with the instrumental in She-Wolf! That's one of my favorite Megadeth instrumental sections and it was totally ruined!

It's not ruined.  It's still right there on the studio album, where you first encountered.

The live performance was ruined.

The point of a live performance might be the interaction with the audience, but in a live DVD or a live album, the music still comes first. And hearing a bunch of voices over an awesome solo completely changes the sound. I don't want to hear that stuff when I'm AT the concert, and I don't want to hear it when I'm watching a concert DVD.

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe live music just isn't for you.

[King Postwhore]

I am the biggest Rush nut you can find but Exit Stage Left sounds so sterile because they is little to non crowd reaction.  The responses of crowds make a live album.

[TheGreatPretender]

Maybe live music just isn't for you.

I really, really resent that comment.
I love live music, I just don't like overly participating audiences. If people bang their heads, jump to the beat, sing along with the lyrics, that's great. But when it's time for a guitar solo or a cool riff, I just want to hear the instrument. Especially on a live DVD.
There's a major difference between live music, and a DVD or CD release of live music.
When you're actually there, chances are, things aren't going to sound perfect. Depending on where you are in the concert hall, your listening experience will differ vastly. By being among the audience, you get to feed off their energy and contribute your own energy to the overall dynamic. That just can't happen with a DVD. The point of a live release isn't to emulate what it would be like to actually be at the concert. Otherwise, it would all be shot from a single angle.

[hefdaddy42]

I wasn't being offensive, no reason to resent the comment.  Just making an observation based on your posts.

The point of a live release is to offer the best possible version of the live experience.  Your assertion that it should only be shot from a single angle is kind of strange.  That's like saying the same thing about a broadcast of a sporting event.  Should it only be broadcast from one angle, so as to replicate for people at home the "feel" of being at the event?  No, of course not.  There are multiple angles to give you the best idea of what is going on.  It's a different experience than actually being there.  Same thing with a live recording like Luna Park or anything else.  But the crowd is still a huge part of it, because the crowd is why the event is happening.

If the crowd wasn't supposed to be part of it, they wouldn't play in a venue with a crowd.  They would play in a studio or rehearsal hall.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I noticed that when a song from ADTOE in LALP comes up on my mp3 player, I actually have to listen closely to find out if it´s really the live version or the studio one...not good!

And hey, interesting fact: I was actually in the crowd for both Rush in Rio and Maiden´s Rock in Rio!

[TheGreatPretender]

I wasn't being offensive, no reason to resent the comment.  Just making an observation based on your posts.

Yeah, but just because I don't like one little factor, doesn't mean I should abstain from it all together. Especially when what I speak of doesn't usually dominate the soundscape. If the vast majority of concerts and live DVDs involved people singing along to every little riff and melody, then yeah, I'd say that live music isn't for me. But since that's really not the case, and vast majority of live DVDs I've ever seen don't have people singing along to the music, I can easily enjoy it.

The point of a live release is to offer the best possible version of the live experience.  Your assertion that it should only be shot from a single angle is kind of strange.  That's like saying the same thing about a broadcast of a sporting event.  Should it only be broadcast from one angle, so as to replicate for people at home the "feel" of being at the event?  No, of course not.  There are multiple angles to give you the best idea of what is going on.  It's a different experience than actually being there.  Same thing with a live recording like Luna Park or anything else.  But the crowd is still a huge part of it, because the crowd is why the event is happening.

If you're talking about a concert, then yes. The crowd is why the concert itself is happening. But the crowd isn't why the DVD is happening. I don't buy the DVD to look at the crowd, or listen to the crowd, I buy it to see and hear the band. And when the band is feeding off the crowd's energy, it's evident. So yeah, the crowd adds something to the band's spontaneity and dynamic and gives each show something truly unique. But at the end of the day, it's still about the band. And there are plenty of ways to contribute that energy than singing along to the music.

Frankly, I'm surprised that people are saying that LALP had an unresponsive crowd... But it had a girl bawling her eyes out during TSCO. I'm sorry, but that's about as responsive as a fan can possibly get to a piece of music. It just reached right into that girl's soul and wringed her out. And that alone is enough to convince me that there was plenty of energy in that crowd. I don't need to hear them throughout the whole set.

[BlobVanDam]

There's a lot more to a live album than just the crowd.
A live performance has an energy to it that you don't get in a studio recording, where each instrument is recorded separately, and touched up to perfection. A live performance has an interaction between the band members, and can be an entirely new dynamic to the studio recording, especially in the case of a new lineup.

The crowd is one aspect of a live recording, but it needs to be balanced too. Clearly that balance differs greatly with personal opinion.
I like to hear the crowd in points where there's specific interaction, but otherwise I tend to favour the background crowd noise to be lower so I can appreciate the band's live performance clearly, and hear the raw instruments as you can't on the studio recording.
The crowd mix on LALP was fine to me until TSCO, when you could tell the crowd was supposed to be there, but wasn't. It may not have even bothered me had I not been watching it with the sight of the crowd not matching what I was hearing.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think Luna Park has an unresponsive crowd.  It has an undermixed and underrepresented crowd.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think Luna Park has an unresponsive crowd.  It has an undermixed and underrepresented crowd.

Maybe not you, but there are a lot of people who keep saying how the crowd at LALP had no energy. Which is BS.

When it comes to LALP, I pretty much agree with Blob, regarding the crowd mix. The only time I want to hear the crowd DURING a song is when the singer asks for them to sing along.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think Luna Park has an unresponsive crowd.  It has an undermixed and underrepresented crowd.

Maybe not you, but there are a lot of people who keep saying how the crowd at LALP had no energy. Which is BS.

When it comes to LALP, I pretty much agree with Blob, regarding the crowd mix. The only time I want to hear the crowd DURING a song is when the singer asks for them to sing along.

When JLB holds out the mic during TTTSTA for the crowd to cheer, I expect to hear a damn cheer!

[MirzekDT]

The only place where I see the crowd mix a problem is during TTTSTA "Igniting sonic rage" part, maybe somewhere else as well but here is the only point where I would say I really really miss the crowd noise...

And another problem with the Luna Park mix is the gong at the end of Outry. I expected it to be really really loud and it was barely audible but it's just one moment so I can get over it

Other than these two I don't see huge problems with LALP mix, yes keyboard is a bit lower but most of the time you can hear it just fine and overall it's amazing live release and that's what matters in the end.

[Zook]

Thank God! Here I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Even in Megadeth's case, it can get annoying. Like during one of their live releases (in Buenos Aires I believe) when the crowd was singing with the instrumental in She-Wolf! That's one of my favorite Megadeth instrumental sections and it was totally ruined!

If you're a Blind Guardian fan, you must really hate it when they play The Bard's Song.