DTF singers: how is LaBrie getting so much better as he gets older?

[Rhayader]

Dude, I don't think my initial resposne to Rhayader can be considered "backlash". More like dumbfounded curiosity. Very strange to me that someone would say he makes no effort to sing well, considering how he's sounding and how he's walked interviewers through his routines several times now.

I didn't see it as a "backlash". I don't intend to fight with anybody or search for trouble here. Just a peaceful discussion.

[Rhayader]

Wow man, are you really gonna get this upset about someone asking you why you hold a certain opinion?

I was just curious why you'd say James is getting worse, when most accounts point to him getting a lot better. I think it's pretty obvious that he's gotten better from Budokan to Score to Luna Park.

I am not upset at all. It was not my intention to sound upset. Sorry.

I agree with some of your points, but saying that he makes no effort is just plain wrong, unfounded and provocative. You had to expect backlash after a comment like that. James is fifty and he obviously took good care of himself and his voice. You can call that the evidence that refutes your statement of him not making an effort. Chaos in Motion should be disregarded when it comes to judging his voice due to bad production and the reasons for his lukewarm performance at Budokan are well known.

Personally, I'm not much of a fan of his early '90s live performances, but I am thoroughly amazed of how he sings today. Score is his best performance and he's been great on every single studio record.

I don't know, in my opinion I think he could sing much better and sustain the notes longer. I also don't like when he wants to sing his own way and doesn't sing with the same notes like in the original. I know that he is fifty, but there are plenty of singers of his age or older that sing very well. I agree that Chaos in Motion should be disregarded because of the quality. I love him in Score too.

[NunoBadmintoncourt]

I don't know, in my opinion I think he could sing much better and sustain the notes longer. I also don't like when he wants to sing his own way and doesn't sing with the same notes like in the original. I know that he is fifty, but there are plenty of singers of his age or older that sing very well. I agree that Chaos in Motion should be disregarded because of the quality. I love him in Score too.

Try singing the same melody lines night after night after night for many years. You'll want to make subtle changes, too, just to break the sheer monotony of it.

[Rhayader]

I don't know, in my opinion I think he could sing much better and sustain the notes longer. I also don't like when he wants to sing his own way and doesn't sing with the same notes like in the original. I know that he is fifty, but there are plenty of singers of his age or older that sing very well. I agree that Chaos in Motion should be disregarded because of the quality. I love him in Score too.

Try singing the same melody lines night after night after night for many years. You'll want to make subtle changes, too, just to break the sheer monotony of it.

He can do that and I am actually in favor of it, but he sings really out of tone and that bothers me. His vocal melodies choice is not good.

[El JoNNo]

I don't know, in my opinion I think he could sing much better and sustain the notes longer. I also don't like when he wants to sing his own way and doesn't sing with the same notes like in the original. I know that he is fifty, but there are plenty of singers of his age or older that sing very well. I agree that Chaos in Motion should be disregarded because of the quality. I love him in Score too.

Try singing the same melody lines night after night after night for many years. You'll want to make subtle changes, too, just to break the sheer monotony of it.

He can do that and I am actually in favor of it, but he sings really out of tone and that bothers me. His vocal melodies choice is not good.

I understand where you're coming from, I notice it too. Like Pull Me Under there are part he nails amazingly and then there are parts like the very end lyrics where he is over the top. Honestly though, meh.

[Rhayader]

I don't know, in my opinion I think he could sing much better and sustain the notes longer. I also don't like when he wants to sing his own way and doesn't sing with the same notes like in the original. I know that he is fifty, but there are plenty of singers of his age or older that sing very well. I agree that Chaos in Motion should be disregarded because of the quality. I love him in Score too.

Try singing the same melody lines night after night after night for many years. You'll want to make subtle changes, too, just to break the sheer monotony of it.

He can do that and I am actually in favor of it, but he sings really out of tone and that bothers me. His vocal melodies choice is not good.

I understand where you're coming from, I notice it too. Like Pull Me Under there are part he nails amazingly and then there are parts like the very end lyrics where he is over the top. Honestly though, meh.

Exactly.

[KevShmev]

I think a good reference to this subject would be Geddy Lee.  Obviously, we've heard his voice in the 70s releases and we saw the nicknames that the critics named his voice in Beyond the Lighted Stage (The Hamster In Overdrive, etc).

As he ages on, even though, his vocals have been losing power, his voice has aged incredibly well and does not sound as terrible, unlike, say, maybe Axl Rose, perhaps?  I don't know. 

LaBrie has been sounding pretty all right, as of late, and he should continue to keep doing what he's been doing to get the vocals to be where it should be in the live performances, for his age, and everything is going to be fine.

I think Geddy sounds awful live, sorry. 

I don't know if awful is the right word, but even with Rush not playing shows two nights in a row anymore, his live vocals are really hit or miss now, and even the hit nights are way below the level of decades ago.  But hey, the guy is almost 60, and considering how he used to sing, it is amazing he has any voice left at all, really.  But yeah, his vocals were the main reason I didn't enjoy the Time Machine live video that much, and I am not overly optimistic that they will be any better on the forthcoming one from the Clockwork Angels tour.

[goo-goo]

When it comes to comparing JLB performances on recent DT to his performances on his solo albums, the only conclusion I can draw is that Matt Guillory is better at utilizing James' voice than John Petrucci.

Quoted for agreement.

That's what I said to Matt. In fact, I said he's better in utilizing James' voice than anyone else who's written for him (before you pull out Arjen, James has had less lines on THE than in just two full Dream Theater songs, on average, even though of course his performances are excellent and that's still a lot of lines for a character on an Ayreon album, even the main characters, which James was). He sort of brushed it off, but I think it's true.

Besides Matt Guillory, you also have to give props to Henning Pauly in the Frameshift album. James shines on that one. Trent Gardner also made James shine with Leonardo the Absolute Man.

[Lolzeez]

When it comes to comparing JLB performances on recent DT to his performances on his solo albums, the only conclusion I can draw is that Matt Guillory is better at utilizing James' voice than John Petrucci.

Quoted for agreement.

Same here,just listening to IR makes me feel like he's really enjoying doing what he does.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Don't think the Luna Park performance is particularly strong at all. It's terribly inconsistent. The premise of your question is false.

The studio performances of the last two albums are very good, but the studio is the studio.

To respond to your question in a different way, a classically trained vocalist who takes care of his or her voice and body can sing extremely well into his or her 60s.

[TheGreatPretender]

Don't think the Luna Park performance is particularly strong at all. It's terribly inconsistent. The premise of your question is false.

I haven't seen Luna Park yet, but his live performances during the support of ADTOE were incredibly stellar, and would certainly support OP's claims. Again, not saying Luna Park is necessarily stellar, I still have to see, but it was also nearing the end of their touring, so by then, I'm sure he was pretty exhausted anyway. But all in all, his performances last year have been his best in a while, IMO.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Don't think the Luna Park performance is particularly strong at all. It's terribly inconsistent. The premise of your question is false.

I haven't seen Luna Park yet, but his live performances during the support of ADTOE were incredibly stellar, and would certainly support OP's claims. Again, not saying Luna Park is necessarily stellar, I still have to see, but it was also nearing the end of their touring, so by then, I'm sure he was pretty exhausted anyway. But all in all, his performances last year have been his best in a while, IMO.

I saw him twice on ADToE. He sounded good on the shows I saw. When you have a live recording that doesn't have overdubs or pitch correction, it's far easier to hear all the mistakes obviously. I think his best live performance is Score. He sounds pretty good on that. Compared to Score, Luna Park is not good. I tried to watch Silent Man and felt like paying attention to something else; it was terribly breathy, strained with missed notes all over the place. You can hear that he didn't feel comfortable with that tune. He just sounded unable to sing that song-- and many other songs-- well, technically. It was not what I was hoping for.

A couple of songs were okay to decent, but in general, it's a problem for me when someone is not able to get anywhere technically close to the recording in a live performance.

[SeRoX]

Nevermind...

[Rodni Demental]

Funny that you mention The Silent Man, I actually thought the vocal performance of that was absolutely top notch on Live at Luna Park, and I was thinking about Wait for Sleep being a little too 'breathy', you could literally hear the popping sounds and peak levels being filtered in the vocal track, it was a bit much. Still great performances of these tracks though if I'm honest.

[KevShmev]

Don't think the Luna Park performance is particularly strong at all. It's terribly inconsistent. The premise of your question is false.

I haven't seen Luna Park yet, but his live performances during the support of ADTOE were incredibly stellar, and would certainly support OP's claims. Again, not saying Luna Park is necessarily stellar, I still have to see, but it was also nearing the end of their touring, so by then, I'm sure he was pretty exhausted anyway. But all in all, his performances last year have been his best in a while, IMO.

That is what everyone said on the Systematic Chaos tour...and then Chaos in Motion happened. 

I just think fans at concerts tend to overrate such things, often because they get caught up in the euphoria of the show, and a non-great vocal performance doesn't seem like a big deal live when the music is as busy as Dream Theater's is, but when you hear or see the live footage, the errors or whatever tend to be more obvious and noticeable.

[TheGreatPretender]

That is what everyone said on the Systematic Chaos tour...and then Chaos in Motion happened. 

I just think fans at concerts tend to overrate such things, often because they get caught up in the euphoria of the show, and a non-great vocal performance doesn't seem like a big deal live when the music is as busy as Dream Theater's is, but when you hear or see the live footage, the errors or whatever tend to be more obvious and noticeable.

In my defense, I only went to one concert and I could barely hear JLB, especially with how loudly I was singing along to everything. So when I say he sounded fantastic live during the those tours, I'm actually talking about bootleg footage that people took while at the concerts. I remember when they first started performing with MM, before the album came out, they were doing those festivals and stuff, and I watched a camera footage of Learning to Live and his performance blew me away.
Anyway, for me the verdict is still out on Luna Park. Just because he doesn't replicate the 'quality' of the albums, doesn't make it worse. It's really a matter of opinion. So I can't comment on that, nor can I take other people's comments to heart.

[Rodni Demental]

Regarding Luna Park, I thought every ADToE song was top notch, breathing new life into sections that might have been otherwise a bit stagnant in the studio version. (EXcept Build Me Up Break Me Down, I don't know what happened there but I guess there's a reason they cut that one from the main show for the DVD  )

It's easier to list the not so strong performances for Luna Park though because most of it was great imo. The ones that I thought were lacking were, A Fortune in Lies (it was alright but we have better live versions of this), BMU BMD and These Walls (just seemed a bit shaky). Also maybe The Root of All Evil? I actually can't decide how I feel about this version. I'm just not but I don't think I'd prefer it over Score. There's something about the way they opened with that track during the tour preceding Score that was powerful and effective.

I was surprisingly impressed with James' performances on some older stuff like: Surrounded, 6:00, Caught in a Web and War Inside My Head. Some of those songs haven't been this strong live.. ever.. or since they first toured with the song in question.

[TheGreatPretender]

I was surprisingly impressed with James' performances on some older stuff like: Surrounded, 6:00, Caught in a Web and War Inside My Head. Some of those songs haven't been this strong live.. ever.. or since they first toured with the song in question.

Damn, now I'm even more excited to see it! Stupid slow ass Amazon.

[wasteland]

I would like to direct your attention towards Surrounded specifically. I must say that, excluding early 1992, this is the best JLB performance of the song ever, and overall the best band performance by far.

I had very high expectations for this song, they were completely met.

[Manolito Mystiq]

I was surprisingly impressed with James' performances on some older stuff like: Surrounded, 6:00, Caught in a Web and War Inside My Head. Some of those songs haven't been this strong live.. ever.. or since they first toured with the song in question.

Thanks for that. I never heard the band perform 'Caught in a Web'. There is another performance of the song on YouTube, but I've hardly heard LaBrie sing so great...LIVE!

[Dream Team]

Tis BOOLsheet, your posting history is well-documented when it comes to denigrating James. Once again, you are way off-base here - he sounds fantastic on LALP. You're making yourself appear ridiculous.

[Rhayader]

A couple of songs were okay to decent, but in general, it's a problem for me when someone is not able to get anywhere technically close to the recording in a live performance.

Couldn't have said better myself. 

[Rhayader]

Tis BOOLsheet, your posting history is well-documented when it comes to denigrating James. Once again, you are way off-base here - he sounds fantastic on LALP. You're making yourself appear ridiculous.

Criticize or having a negative opinion is NOT denegrating. Ridiculous? For having a different opinion?

[Dream Team]

Tis BOOLsheet, your posting history is well-documented when it comes to denigrating James. Once again, you are way off-base here - he sounds fantastic on LALP. You're making yourself appear ridiculous.

Criticize or having a negative opinion is NOT denegrating. Ridiculous? For having a different opinion?

Have you read through his entire posting history?

[MoraWintersoul]

I would like to direct your attention towards Surrounded specifically. I must say that, excluding early 1992, this is the best JLB performance of the song ever, and overall the best band performance by far.

I had very high expectations for this song, they were completely met.

For new members not in the know - Marco here is one of DTF's bootleg gurus, so when he says a performance was way stronger than average, you can count on that

[Dream Team]

I would like to direct your attention towards Surrounded specifically. I must say that, excluding early 1992, this is the best JLB performance of the song ever, and overall the best band performance by far.

I had very high expectations for this song, they were completely met.

For new members not in the know - Marco here is one of DTF's bootleg gurus, so when he says a performance was way stronger than average, you can count on that

Yeah, but we're all crazy you know, James is terrible these days  .

[The Stray Seed]

I have to agree with my namesake. James' performance in LALP was absolutely stellar. I had goosebumps on Surrounded, Metropolis and especially Caught in a Web (which is difficult as hell to sing, and he didnt' only nail it... he really was on fire!)... but actually he's been amazing throughout the whole show. What a great voice... as a singer I am truly amazed by his current output.

[Lowdz]

I don't think he got better. I think sometimes he just makes no effort to sing well.

Are you trolling Rhayader? This is the second post this evening where you are incredibly negative and where I disagree with you completely.

[Tick]

I want to chime in on this thread. I have been a lead vocalist since the late 80's. I am a year younger than LaBrie and I can honestly say my voice is better and stronger now than it was 20 years ago. It actually shocks me that I am better now than then.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Tis BOOLsheet, your posting history is well-documented when it comes to denigrating James. Once again, you are way off-base here - he sounds fantastic on LALP. You're making yourself appear ridiculous.

Actually, YOU are the one who is making YOURself appear ridiculous by accusing me of "denigrating" JLB. My posting history is well-documented indeed. It is strictly limited to his musical performances in Dream Theater; those comments have fairly criticized his outputs with respect to musicianship and vocal performance. I have never gone beyond that. Many here have made borderline personal remarks about certain former band members without being challenged. But I have NEVER done that or have ever gotten personal. Ever. I have never said anything insulting about him unless you are one of the many fans who apparently cannot logically separate criticism and/or dislike of one's performance from insulting and denigrating one's character. I have never said any single derogatory remark about him, and that is a fact. I express my opinions about ALL of the band members in terms of their playing only and I tell it as I hear it without any consideration to how I feel about their personalities, status as icons, or their reputations as musicians in certain pockets of the fanbase. What's more, when I say what I don't like about the performances, I very often go into detail about what I don't like and provide examples. I'm sorry you think I want to run some type of smear campaign against a guy I don't even know and have never spoken to for more than 10 seconds, and I'm sorry that this person, whose performances I often do not enjoy, happens to be someone to whom you look up a great deal. But so long as critical opinions (free from insults and hateful remarks, of course) are allowed on this forum, I will continue to write mine, whether they be good or bad, positive or negative. Maybe you should encourage specificity and examples in clearly explained opinions, rather than only accepting blind, zombie-like praise.

Instead of accusing me of things I have not done, and instead of making this personal, why don't you try to contribute an opinion that makes a modicum of sense. Right now, it's obvious the lack of understanding about the vocal arts in this thread and the other one. People are saying things are factually incorrect like "man, he didn't miss a note! it was way too perfect, he must have used pitch correction!" I honestly don't know whether people are just so exuberant about the release of the long awaited DVD they're caught up in the excitement, or they legitimately cannot hear distinguish pitches from one another. The fact of the matter is that there are actually a number of people on this thread and on the review thread who are hearing what I'm hearing in this DVD. You probably think we are all just trying to "denigrate" the man. But it's actually something totally different; it's the musical performance.

If you actually want to talk about some of the aspects of the performances on the DVD, I'd be happy to engage, even if we have different opinions. But I will not get any further into this game of false accusations of disparaging remarks because you are overprotective of your idol. It's just childish, and not what I prefer to discuss on these forums.

EDIT: interestingly enough, while I was typing this, someone started a thread about how it sounds like there's "distortion" on the LaLP vocal. Hint: what he is hearing is not that.

[El Barto]

I don't think his live voice is getting better. I think he's been evolving his style so that it more suits what he's capable of. I'm not faulting him for it; that's exactly what he should be doing. Unfortunately, I don't much care for the way he sings live now. Probably one of the reasons I'm so disinterested in DT nowadays.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, I finally got to see Live at Luna Park, and I think James sounds his best in years, better than on Score or LAB. I mean, those shows were consistently good, and he did a great job on them. But in this one, he went above and beyond, singing certain parts differently and adding screams here and there, which is something I haven't seen him do since the Images and Words days.
Yeah, okay, he's quite breathy on the quiet parts, but personally, it's the loud and high parts that I care a lot more about, and I think those sound better than they have in years.

[SeRoX]

I think the reason he sounds amazing on LAP he knows his limits and uses them perfectly. He is my all time favourite singer but I've always thought that he didn't use his voice how it should've been, even his wild time back in 90-95. Now it's more controlled and blanced.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think the reason he sounds amazing on LAP he knows his limits and uses them perfectly. He is my all time favourite singer but I've always thought that he didn't use his voice how it should've been, even his wild time back in 90-95. Now it's more controlled and blanced.

Well, you do have to keep in mind that he did get his range back. I mean, talking about limits, if you hear the part where he was supposed to hit the F# in LTL, on Live Scenes From New York, he went down instead. That's what I'd call knowing his limits and using them perfectly. But in terms of range, he's got so much more of it back now, that I think it's safe to say that his limits have surpassed the highest notes in DT's catalogue. Of course, it's not like he's in top form every single night, I'm sure there are nights where his voice is more exhausted than others, but when he's in good form, like on LALP, he's managing to hit all the notes with great power and technique, so it's not like his limits are preventing him from doing that at all.

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I´m not a singer, but answering the original post, I guess it is all down to training and taking better care of his voice. It works on a lot of areas too - I´m 39 now and I´m a MUCH better runner than I was 11 years ago, and that is due to oriented training, eating properly, working out to strengthen the legs etc.

And just to mention another singer, I find that Bruce almost ruined his voice - you can hear him getting worse every tour, from the Beast on the Road (´82) to his farewell tour (´93). When he returned to Maiden he´d had singing lessons and changed his style a little bit. His performances are much more consistent now, although his range is a tad shorter. Live After Death is embarassing vocal-wise, but it sounds badass anyway because it´s a band at the peak of its powers, on the tour of their best album ever, at the end of a strenuous tour with everyone stressed out and hanging by a thread. On the other hand, Bruce sings much better on Rock in Rio and any other release since he returned to the band.