Better Songs or Better Production?

[Ruba]

Better songs. See WDADU.

[Jaffa]

Honestly, I really don't care about production at all. 

Is that because you are counting on the hypothetical song being released live or remastered later? Or because you truly don't care how it sounds? I find it hard to relate to the latter, but to each their own!

The latter, basically.  Sound quality in terms of production really isn't an issue for me at all.  Don't mind me, I'm just weird.   

[Dark Castle]

Polishing a turd doesn't make it any better.
I can get past production if it's not absolutely awful. So I went with better songs.

[Sycsa]

The way you put the question, it's a pretty much a no-brainer in favor of "better songs". But in a different context, as their songwriting is great, DT is more in need of better production than better songs at this point of their career. Ditch Petrucci, hire outside producers.

[TheGreatPretender]

The way you put the question, it's a pretty much a no-brainer in favor of "better songs". But in a different context, as their songwriting is great, DT is more in need of better production than better songs at this point of their career. Ditch Petrucci, hire outside producers.

First of all, let me just start by saying that I think the production on DT12 is awesome.

But that aside, can someone please explain to me what it is that distinguishes a producer from an engineer? Outside of writing the actual music, how did the duties of JP and Richarc Chycki differ?

[Nearmyth]

What's the point of having good production if you can't enjoy the songs? Even if the production sucks, at least you have good music.

Also: On WDADU, I do agree that the songwriting is subpar. A good portion of the songwriting is disjointed, reminds me of Trespass by Genesis where things never really fit or cohered.

I do really like Afterlife, A Fortune In Lies, and Ytse Jam. Those are actually fairly well put together songs in my opinion.

In other words, even if the production was good, it would be in the lower half of my DT albums by far...

[Sycsa]

The way you put the question, it's a pretty much a no-brainer in favor of "better songs". But in a different context, as their songwriting is great, DT is more in need of better production than better songs at this point of their career. Ditch Petrucci, hire outside producers.

First of all, let me just start by saying that I think the production on DT12 is awesome

I like it as well, but it could be better (and it was on some older albums), therefore it should.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like it as well, but it could be better (and it was on some older albums), therefore it should.

Well, it was massively better than the production on ADTOE, IMO. And honestly, I felt like on a lot of DT's earlier albums the guitar tone was a little too soft, it didn't have that crunch, which is something that DT12 nailed really well. At least as far as guitar tone goes, I think this is one of DT's best albums.

[adastra]

I think that FII is the best example of perfect production and perfect songs!
But for me,  songs always come first.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Good songs. Without good songs, none of the other stuff-- production, packaging, etc.-- really matters. You buy the product for the songs.

[metrojam]

Well, seeing as DT12 had NEITHER, then I'd be happy with either of them for the next album!!

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Well, seeing as DT12 had NEITHER, then I'd be happy with either of them for the next album!!

[Outcrier]

Well, seeing as DT12 had NEITHER, then I'd be happy with either of them for the next album!!

[Daso]

There's also the fact that making better songs is more subjective than better production. An album can sound like absolute shit and a vast majority will say it sounds that way, even though some might say they like how it sounds. However, the appreciation of a song varies a lot more depending on the audience.

I don't know with which of the two I would go with regarding DT, though. Perhaps better production, since it has room for improving and the songwriting is pretty damn great already.

[TheGreatPretender]

There's also the fact that making better songs is more subjective than better production. An album can sound like absolute shit and a vast majority will say it sounds that way, even though some might say they like how it sounds. However, the appreciation of a song varies a lot more depending on the audience.

That's actually a really good point. It's much easier to define better production than it is to define a better song. I mean, subjectively, a person can consider anything a good song. Some of the worst music I've ever heard has humongous fan bases, so a good song or a bad song is entirely subjective.
Even by DT's standards, regardless of what people think of the production, there are vastly polarizing opinions about many DT songs. I could easily say, "Yes, of course I want better music. There should be more awesome songs like Constant Motion," and I'll have a dozen DT fans clawing at my throat.

So in that respect, I guess better production is more important, because it's impossible to create better music in absolute terms. It's only possible to piss off the fanbase by doing something completely deviated of what's expected from the band, and even then, it'll probably have a cult following.

[GasparXR]

It's only possible to piss off the fanbase by doing something completely deviated of what's expected from the band, and even then, it'll probably have a cult following.

Pretty much Falling Into Infinity, which still turned out to be great in many fans' eyes.