Is JLB on a second wind with his singing?

[Perpetual Change]

I don't know what the criticisms about the vocal production are on the new album are about. It's a bit of delay/reverb, that's it. Very standard. I love it. None of it sounds like he's doubled the vocal track, I think it's just slightly delayed from the left to right speaker, and I can hear all of the nuances just fine.

Really? I think the end of "Illumination Theory" works awfully, thanks to how lathered up his vocals are.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know what the criticisms about the vocal production are on the new album are about. It's a bit of delay/reverb, that's it. Very standard. I love it. None of it sounds like he's doubled the vocal track, I think it's just slightly delayed from the left to right speaker, and I can hear all of the nuances just fine.

Really? I think the end of "Illumination Theory" works awfully, thanks to how lathered up his vocals are.

Works fine for me. I'll take a produced vocal over a dry one. Just personal preference, I guess.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, but how can you hear the nuances of his voice through that? Just having listened to so many JLB recordings, I can tell right away that I'm likely missing a lot.

Then again, I'm not listening on HD Tracks. Maybe it sounds better on that.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, but how can you hear the nuances of his voice through that? Just having listened to so many JLB recordings, I can tell right away that I'm likely missing a lot.

Then again, I'm not listening on HD Tracks. Maybe it sounds better on that.

It makes some difference in the isolation of his voice compared to the other instruments, but I don't know if that's a reason alone for our difference of opinion.
But I can clearly hear the tonal changes in his voice, the breathiness, the vibrato etc. It sounds like a normal amount of vocal reverb/delay to me, and I can make out his voice distinctly from the production applied to it.

I really don't know what else to say. Agree to disagree?

[mikeyd23]

But I can clearly hear the tonal changes in his voice, the breathiness, the vibrato etc. It sounds like a normal amount of vocal reverb/delay to me, and I can make out his voice distinctly from the production applied to it.

Yeah... I would agree with this.  Its certainly not a dry vocal, but it sounds like it simply has some delay and reverb on it, nothing too overly processed, IMO.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, but how can you hear the nuances of his voice through that? Just having listened to so many JLB recordings, I can tell right away that I'm likely missing a lot.

Then again, I'm not listening on HD Tracks. Maybe it sounds better on that.

It makes some difference in the isolation of his voice compared to the other instruments, but I don't know if that's a reason alone for our difference of opinion.
But I can clearly hear the tonal changes in his voice, the breathiness, the vibrato etc. It sounds like a normal amount of vocal reverb/delay to me, and I can make out his voice distinctly from the production applied to it.

I really don't know what else to say. Agree to disagree?

Yeah, we're going to have to. To clarify, I don't think James is too overprocessed on the whole album, but during the end of Illumination Theory, I definitely feel like I'm hearing more effect than James.

[?]

Another thing that bugs me is the beginning of The Looking Glass. I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thinks that way, but seriously, the way James sings there doesn't fit at all in my opinion.

Yeah, you'd expect Geddy Lee to start singing after the intro

But seriously, I actually agree with you. For some reason I feel like a different voice would suit those verses better.

[The Stray Seed]

Another thing that bugs me is the beginning of The Looking Glass. I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thinks that way, but seriously, the way James sings there doesn't fit at all in my opinion.

Yeah, you'd expect Geddy Lee to start singing after the intro

But seriously, I actually agree with you. For some reason I feel like a different voice would suit those verses better.

I'm on the opposite here. I find that James' voice fits perfectly in that song, I just love the way he sounds; he comes out so clear and so natural that I really think TLG is the song in DT12 where his voice is best blended with all the other instruments. And anyway, if there's something bugging me about Rush, it actually is Geddy Lee's voice. But that's my personal opinion.

[TheAtliator]

I think his vocals on TLG are godly. Of course I always think that.. But this one specifically I can't stop listening to his voice. Just like every other song he sings..

[smegolas]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

[Dream Team]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

In other words, turn DT into a different band. But they're not a different band, they're DT. It's like saying "I wish Hetfield would ditch the Explorer and just play an acoustic, and maybe Lars could accompany him on bongos. Then I would like Metallica better".

[Perpetual Change]

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

That doesn't make any sense at all. You hear the effects of age on JLB's voice because the band hasn't really mellowed and so JLB still gets cast into the role of "operatic metal singer". If DT mellowed, JLB would be singing differently too, and wouldn't have to strain his voice. I see no reason at all why JLB couldn't do a Spock's Beard song and completely slay it.

[smegolas]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

In other words, turn DT into a different band. But they're not a different band, they're DT. It's like saying "I wish Hetfield would ditch the Explorer and just play an acoustic, and maybe Lars could accompany him on bongos. Then I would like Metallica better".

not at all.  every band needs to evolve to stay relevant.  what i stated was the direction that i would like to see them evolve in, in a subtle way, opposed to some other direction.  and i didnt say for john to ditch the music man.  you missed reading "occasionally" and "once in awhile".  i am looking for more variety.  this band is so awesome, i want to see what happens when they step out of their comfort zone and mix it up.

i want to hear a song by DT, but not immediately know its DT.

[smegolas]

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

That doesn't make any sense at all. You hear the effects of age on JLB's voice because the band hasn't really mellowed and so JLB still gets cast into the role of "operatic metal singer". If DT mellowed, JLB would be singing differently too, and wouldn't have to strain his voice. I see no reason at all why JLB couldn't do a Spock's Beard song and completely slay it.

perhaps.  but when i play DT songs for friends, its the mellower songs like TSCO and Solitary Shell and they are not feeling the vocals.  i love those songs, but to me, the vocals are not as strong as most Spock's material.

[MarkFitDT]

I think his vocals on TLG are godly. Of course I always think that.. But this one specifically I can't stop listening to his voice. Just like every other song he sings..

agree  100% - he sounds amazing on TLG 

[1neeto]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

In other words, turn DT into a different band. But they're not a different band, they're DT. It's like saying "I wish Hetfield would ditch the Explorer and just play an acoustic, and maybe Lars could accompany him on bongos. Then I would like Metallica better".

Exactly. Petrucci with his Music Man and Mesa Boogie is his tone. That's like asking Slash to ditch his LP and Marshall for a Strat and a Twin Reverb, or Just imagine Gilmour without a strat, blasphemy!

[ishak540m]

His best vocal performance in recent times is Far From Heaven. Anyone else agree?

FFH is great.

Apart from the vibrato.

" I have done all you have asked of me -e -e -e -e -e -e " . It's just a little excessive for me.

I would agree if that was a single note but it's ascending so it's awesome! :-P

[ZirconBlue]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

If DT were to do what you suggest that would be the end of my 21-years-and-counting DT fandom.

[smegolas]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

If DT were to do what you suggest that would be the end of my 21-years-and-counting DT fandom.

Im sure most people here would agree with you, which is why it wont happen.  its just that after 21 years of DT myself, i find im looking for something different as i get older.  not dramatically different, i still what them to be DT.

[DebraKadabra]

His best vocal performance in recent times is Far From Heaven. Anyone else agree?

FFH is great.

Apart from the vibrato.

" I have done all you have asked of me -e -e -e -e -e -e " . It's just a little excessive for me.

I respectfully disagree on the vibrato thingamajig - IMO, it's perfect for the emotion the song conveys.  Almost like he's trying not to burst into tears.

[ZirconBlue]

I think James does admirably on this album, particularly on IT.  However, and I know this is not going to be a popular thing to say here, but I think James is the weak link in DT.  I really think his voice is a throwback to a bygone age, and is a limitation to the evolution of the band.  I also think he is a limitation to their commercial success.  I have loved the guys since I&W, but I don't have any friends who like them.  I often try to introduce them to friends, but invariably they say that the band is good, but they don't like the vocals.  Of course, the backing vocals are another weak spot.

I know it won't happen, but I would really love to hear DT mellow a bit with age, hire a singer with a more dynamic and modern sounding voice, and become a little more like Spocks Beard.  I would also love it if John would occasionally turn down the gain and maybe play a strat once in a while, which would force him to slow down a bit.  I loved the shredding in my 20s and 30s, but find it a bit tiring now. 

Having said all that, I am liking the new album more than I thought I would.

If DT were to do what you suggest that would be the end of my 21-years-and-counting DT fandom.

Im sure most people here would agree with you, which is why it wont happen.  its just that after 21 years of DT myself, i find im looking for something different as i get older.  not dramatically different, i still what them to be DT.

Replacing the singer isn't "dramatically different"?

[Rodni Demental]

  @ the idea of wanting James replaced. DT would hardly be DT anymore without James, and that's not to say another singer couldn't pull off most of the material James has contributed, but considering if they could replicate it even slightly like James? I'm talking about a new singer going over the extensive back catalogue of DT music. Too weird... We can deal with Keyboard and apparently even Drummer changes (maybe Bass? I'm so sorry Myung!) but something would be drastically different if DT had a new singer to the point that I'd hardly recognise them as DT. Isn't there some weird cover of War Pigs they have with a different singer? And the Cemetery Gates cover has the Symphony X singer? Kinda works for those songs but most of the actual Dream Theater song covers I hear on the internet can be pretty mindblowing but it's always been the vocals that throw me off. There can only be one James Labrie!

[hefdaddy42]

The idea of DT becoming "more like Spock's Beard" in any way just seems weird.

Spock's Beard already does Spock's Beard.  If I want that, I will listen to Spock's Beard.

I don't want DT to do Spock's Beard.

[Tomislav95]

I have to say I really like his vocal melodies on album. Most of you like IT (me too) but I have to say that my favorite singing moment of album is probably second verse in The Bigger Picture ("Like a moth burned by the fire, and driven to the flame...")

[Tis BOOLsheet]

@ the idea of wanting James replaced. DT would hardly be DT anymore without James, and that's not to say another singer couldn't pull off most of the material James has contributed, but considering if they could replicate it even slightly like James? I'm talking about a new singer going over the extensive back catalogue of DT music. Too weird... We can deal with Keyboard and apparently even Drummer changes (maybe Bass? I'm so sorry Myung!) but something would be drastically different if DT had a new singer to the point that I'd hardly recognise them as DT. Isn't there some weird cover of War Pigs they have with a different singer? And the Cemetery Gates cover has the Symphony X singer? Kinda works for those songs but most of the actual Dream Theater song covers I hear on the internet can be pretty mindblowing but it's always been the vocals that throw me off. There can only be one James Labrie!

Something was drastically different when KM, DS, and MP were replaced. The rhythm section sounds extremely different with MM. It's not that those positions are easily replaceable. It's that the fans for the most part liked the replacements.

Depending on the circumstances, anyone can be replaced-- probably except the person(s) writing all the music. Obviously things will sound different anytime someone new comes in, but if done the right way, the band can go on and in some cases be even more successful than before. Over the years we've seen the most legendary and influential frontmen replaced. Since you brought up War Pigs, look at what happened with Black Sabbath when Ozzy left and RJD came in. How about AC/DC? Is the band no longer AC/DC when Back in Black with Brian Johnson comes out? The fans made that album the second best selling album (by ANYONE) of all time. It can be done and has been successfully done numerous times. Like I said, it just depends on the circumstances and who the replacement is.

Finding a replacement for MP was by a far a bigger challenge than it would have been to do the same with JLB. MP was a critical component to every aspect of the band.

[Rodni Demental]

You're right all of those new members brought something new, Kevin brought a little heart to some songs, Derek put a bit of penis in, and Jordan brought some brain oriented stuff into the equation. And you could argue that anyone is replaceable and it'll bring about a change based on the new individual's input. This example of a change in singer I feel would be particularly drastic for Dream Theater at this point and you could say maybe it's just me refusing to acknowledge the possibility cause it seems too weird. If it ever did happen though it'd certainly be interesting.