Labrie on 'Chaos in Motion'

[berrege]

I'm listening to the Chaos in Motion DVD atm. I always wondered: did they use a correction on LaBrie's voice here? Was there something wrong with his microphone? He really sounds strange on this DVD, it's not his normal voice. It's like he's got a stuffy nose 

Listen to Scarred for example, or Surrounded

[Sycsa]

They autotuned his voice, poorly. The whole production is bootleg-like cheap. You should remove the links though or the mods will come after you.

[berrege]

They autotuned his voice, poorly. The whole production is bootleg-like cheap. You should remove the links though or the mods will come after you.

Removed Thanks

Do they always autotune live CD's/DVD's? If so, how can you distinguish an awesome performance from good autotuning? LaBrie sounds awesome on Score or Live at the Marquee for example: autotune or a brilliant performance?

Don't get me wrong, I love JLB. But these are yet unanswered questions to me.

[Kotowboy]

Listen to Hetfield on S&M - he's smothered in pitch correction.

The verses of Master Of Puppets for instance.


EDIT : Holy hell - I changed my mind - listen to " Of Wolf And Man " - the pitch correction on that is so blatant...

[Perpetual Change]

You can expect you're hearing some pitch correction and autotone, and even some overdubbing, on most live releases from most artists, really.

With CiM, they just did it quickly and cheaply, without much regard for how the final product sounded.

[Shadow2222]

I believe Budokan most likely has the least amount of pitch correction. I know for a fact Live in Tokyo and Live at the Marquee have quite a bit (in fact, Live at the Marquee was completely re-recorded in a studio, if I am not mistaken).

Listen to Another Day on the Score bonus disc (which I believe is raw and unedited), and he sounds shakier and not quite as on point (even though it comes from the Live in Tokyo concert).

[Perpetual Change]

LATM definitely. LiT, not sure. I think people tend to overhype that performance. When I first listened to it eons ago as a new fan, it was hard for me to get over how shakey JLB's performance was. Sure, lots of what he was doing was impressive, but it just didn't sound nice.

[TheAtliator]

CiM took some of JLB's best performances, and made it his worst. You can hear the pitches snapping because of how it was blindly auto tuned (Like pressing the autotune button and letting whatever program tune his singing to the nearest pitch). That means his vibrato (the best vibrato in the world) was tuned to half steps. 

And on top of it, for some reason it sounds like the microphone was a cell phone or something..

So no, JLB doesn't sound good as a robot going through the answering machine, and unfortunately some of the less-trained ears listening to this DVD seem to hold that against him as a singer. 



Also I highly doubt Tokyo was touched up at all vocally because it says "what you're about to see is exactly how it went down one rainy night in Japan" or something like that, and also you can hear a ton of mistakes (although it's still a mind-blowingly fantastic performance nonetheless). I'm pretty sure M2000 wasn't touched up either.

[berrege]

Is it possible then to really speak of good performances on live releases? Since it's pretty much all autotune and overdubbing...

[BelichickFan]

Does anyone know if Luna Park is supposed to be all or mostly overdub free ?

[Lowdz]

Is it possible then to really speak of good performances on live releases? Since it's pretty much all autotune and overdubbing...

Welcome to the world of the "live" album. Stitching you up since the 70s (if not earlier).

Saying that, the most awesome live albums ever were all fondled in the studio.

[TheAtliator]

Score was definitely touched up. Am I allowed to say I've heard just a little bit of audio from the show and noticed at least 3 places where LaBrie was fixed up and changed from fantastic performance to studio quality performance? In fact one of the fix-ups I heard was entirely unnecessary, but it changed ONE note to sound more like the original song even though there was no mistake.

I'm hoping Luna Park has none, because I'd rather an untouched mind-blowing live performance than a studio-quality performance

Is it possible then to really speak of good performances on live releases? Since it's pretty much all autotune and overdubbing...

Not all.. I'd say about half of the live albums from my favorite groups are touched up. M2000 is the perfect place to go if you're looking for untouched up. (Except for the fact that Portnoy's mic sounds like it wasn't on for SD-V.)

[Kotowboy]

If you want live releases that haven't been tampered with - then Metallica's soundboard livemetallica are for you.

It's just mixed and mastered straight from the desk. Mistakes and all.

[?]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the official bootlegs released through Ytse Jam Records don't have any overdubs.

[Sycsa]

Is it possible then to really speak of good performances on live releases? Since it's pretty much all autotune and overdubbing...

Welcome to the world of the "live" album. Stitching you up since the 70s (if not earlier).

Saying that, the most awesome live albums ever were all fondled in the studio.

Made in Japan, the greatest live album of all time, would like to have a word with you.

[Ben_Jamin]

Tesla did an awesome thing during their tour opening for the scorpions. They offered a cd of the same show you went to, available during the show. I got one and even though it sounds like it wasn't mastered, which I'm sure it isn't, it's still exactly the show I heard.

That is one idea I feel most bands should utilize. More people will buy the show they heard than one they weren't at, unless they did something special which all bands usually do.

[mikeyd23]

Tesla did an awesome thing during their tour opening for the scorpions. They offered a cd of the same show you went to, available during the show. I got one and even though it sounds like it wasn't mastered, which I'm sure it isn't, it's still exactly the show I heard.

That is one idea I feel most bands should utilize. More people will buy the show they heard than one they weren't at, unless they did something special which all bands usually do.

Alter Bridge did something similar on their last US tour.  They were the headliner though, so if you were willing to wait around after the show (which me and my friends totally were) you could purchase a USB drive with the live sound board recording of the show on it and some extra goodies as well, if I remember correctly.  I don't recall the quality of the recording being too great, I think I listened to it a few times and haven't since, but it was a cool idea for the fans who were into those sorts of things.  I feel like a lot of DT fans would love something like that.

[Perpetual Change]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the official bootlegs released through Ytse Jam Records don't have any overdubs.

I think one or more of the cover albums are more of JLB live from the studio.

[Shadow2222]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the official bootlegs released through Ytse Jam Records don't have any overdubs.

I think one or more of the cover albums are more of JLB live from the studio.

I don't think the Deep Purple or Master of Puppets covers are, since JLB laughs during a couple songs in the first one (and I doubt he would have done that in the studio), and Master of Puppets already doesn't sound too good (those songs just don't fit JLB).

Maybe Number of the Beast, but I'm still not so sure about that, because it sounds rather raw too.

[Dtman2112]

I saw Luna Park last week. And I noticed in several parts where James was overdubbed. Visibly.

[TheAtliator]

Damn it. Hopefully not too much, and hopefully no autotune.

[Madman Shepherd]

CiM took some of JLB's best performances, and made it his worst. You can hear the pitches snapping because of how it was blindly auto tuned (Like pressing the autotune button and letting whatever program tune his singing to the nearest pitch). That means his vibrato (the best vibrato in the world) was tuned to half steps. 

Could you give us the timestamp of some examples?  I'm still trying to figure out how to tell an autotune performance apart so this would help. 

[TheAtliator]

One good example is all the held out notes in the second chorus of Blind Faith. You can hear his wide vibrato snapping to pitches rather than being a fluid slide.

Plus (and I have no idea why this is) he sounds like his nose is plugged the entire song, and that's clearly not how his tone is.

edit: And the CD version of CiM is even worse! Listen to Surrounded, and it's just unbelievable what they did to his voice. On the big, long, huge "WAAAALLL" part of it, the autotune actually tunes him to the WRONG NOTE! He was singing the right note, and AMAZINGLY at that... And the auto tune picked up his vibrato and tuned his B4 to a C4 for part of it.

Another good example of the vibrato being snapped to pitches is the word "behind" in "leave their distrust behind" in Scarred.

[BlobVanDam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the official bootlegs released through Ytse Jam Records don't have any overdubs.

I think one or more of the cover albums are more of JLB live from the studio.

The Number of the Beast definitely (although if you listen to the bootleg of the other show, he did a good job anyway).
And some of the songs on the Uncovered bootleg sound touched up.


Pretty much all live albums are touched up. The only question is how much touching up is necessary (or possible given the circumstances).
If Live At Luna Park is anything like Score, I expect it to need very minimal fixing at all.

[AngelBack]

Ok, so I am ready to be shot down on this, but a thought has occurred to me on occasion.  I love all the live DVD's of DT and LSFNY solidified my infatuation with DT.  And for the most part the vocal performances have all been, however enhanced, good to great (Score).  But CIM stands out as a really sub par and truly inaccurate portrayal of how good JLB has performed at the many shows I have attended.

IS IT POSSIBLE, that MP (being the main producer of live material released) was again at a point where he was not happy with JLB and allowed this sub par portrayal of JLB to be released without the usual doctoring?  I know, I know, we are all over the split and no drama needed, but I just find it odd.

[BlobVanDam]

Ok, so I am ready to be shot down on this, but a thought has occurred to me on occasion.  I love all the live DVD's of DT and LSFNY solidified my infatuation with DT.  And for the most part the vocal performances have all been, however enhanced, good to great (Score).  But CIM stands out as a really sub par and truly inaccurate portrayal of how good JLB has performed at the many shows I have attended.

IS IT POSSIBLE, that MP (being the main producer of live material released) was again at a point where he was not happy with JLB and allowed this sub par portrayal of JLB to be released without the usual doctoring?  I know, I know, we are all over the split and no drama needed, but I just find it odd.

No, no, no and no.

Sorry, I just wish people would stop with the outlandish conspiracy theories about MP, because unfortunately this isn't the first time I've heard this idea come up.

They filmed a limited number of shows, so that's all they had to choose from. And it was done on the cheap, so they didn't have the resources to do a pro touch-up. There's nothing more to it.
To play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate here, if JLB sounded bad, that's more on JLB than anyone else. MP can't be the go-to scapegoat for everything.   

That's not directed entirely at you, so I'm sorry for being blunt, but as I said, this comes up a lot more often than it warrants.

[TheAtliator]

But we're forgetting one thing... The after-effects added on CiM made JLB's voice go from TERRIFIC to ABSOLUTELY MIND-BOGGLINGLY BAD.

That's backwards in direction from all other live releases.. and quite extreme in that wrong direction too..

So of course MP didn't purposely do anything wrong to his great friend, but it doesn't take away the slight possibility of the following theory: MP wasn't the hugest fan of JLB's voice anymore, and made it much worse in attempt to fix it up. Much like how it was probably his idea, and not James's to edit Take The Time and Voices in the live setting.

[AngelBack]

Ninja'd, I started to edit to say "In before Blob blows this away" !!

I believe what you say as you have insight most of us don't, but I love JLB and I really just don't view CIM (other than JP's guitar work on Surrounded) because of the vocals.

[Daso]

To say that JLB was terrific or not, the right thing to do would be check some bootlegs from dates close to the ones of the shows displayed in CiM. I don't think James can sound as bad as he does in CiM, but I can't call it all on the autotune without listening to him from raw recordings of that time.

[BlobVanDam]

But we're forgetting one thing... The after-effects added on CiM made JLB's voice go from TERRIFIC to ABSOLUTELY MIND-BOGGLINGLY BAD.

That's backwards in direction from all other live releases.. and quite extreme in that wrong direction too..

So of course MP didn't purposely do anything wrong to his great friend, but it doesn't take away the slight possibility of the following theory: MP wasn't the hugest fan of JLB's voice anymore, and made it much worse in attempt to fix it up. Much like how it was probably his idea, and not James's to edit Take The Time and Voices in the live setting.

Except that MP cut those sections in an effort to preserve JLB's voice for the night, so that he could remain in top form for a grueling 2+ hour show.
That actually supports that he wanted JLB to sound GOOD, not that he was trying to sabotage anything to make him sound bad.


Unless you have bootlegs of the shows they recorded for CiM, it's complete speculation that his vocals sounded terrific before being tinkered with. Singers have off shows. If the vocals sounded terrific, they wouldn't have edited it so heavily. Overapplying pitch correction to a great vocal would not have that bad an effect anyway. It would just make it sound like a Cher song.

Score sounds so amazing because the original vocal was 99% perfect to begin with, so they didn't need to apply any heavy corrections. Had he sung that well on CiM before editing, it would not have come out that bad.

[Grizz]

Score sounds so amazing because the original vocal was 99% perfect to begin with, so they didn't need to apply any heavy corrections. Had he sung that well on CiM before editing, it would not have come out that bad.

Score was recorded in a studio in Canada, just like the moon landing you dolt

[AngelBack]

It does occur to me that had MP's performance been as (comparatively to previous releases) weak, it would have never seen the light of day without serious - at whatever cost - revision.

[BlobVanDam]

Score sounds so amazing because the original vocal was 99% perfect to begin with, so they didn't need to apply any heavy corrections. Had he sung that well on CiM before editing, it would not have come out that bad.

Score was recorded in a studio in Canada, just like the moon landing you dolt

You're wrong. There was actually a second singer in the grassy knoll for Score, and the government intentionally took down JLB on CiM, because if it was real his vocals wouldn't have burned so quickly.

[Zook]

This DVD should have never been released.

[GasparXR]

This DVD should have never been released.

Really, the vocals are the only thing that may make it unwatchable. Sure, the video is bootleg quality, but the video quality is far from bad, and the performances of everyone else throughout the DVD were really good.