Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[BlobVanDam]

I do find it amusing that anyone is commenting on IT being disjointed as though this is a new thing for DT ~20 minute epics. There is the occasional recurring theme, but mostly it moves from one theme to the next and doesn't return, which is exactly the same as ACOS, Octavarium, ITPOE and TCOT.

Arguably other classic longer songs are the same, like LTL and Metropolis.

Octavarium actually uses variations of the same theme in almost every single section, and is quite cohesive as a song musically, so you're wrong on that one.
Both TCOT and ITPOE definitely have their breaks in the flow, but to me they're just done a bit better. I'm not saying they're done perfectly, just relatively better.

It's not that there's a huge difference in what the songs are doing, I just don't feel that IT does it all that effectively compared to the others. The break in the song isn't musical, it's just a stop in the song, and the whole ambient/orchestral section doesn't have a lot of context in the song to me, unlike the break in TCOT, which I think fits perfectly.

I mean, it's all subjective here of course. It's just like the whole "this instrumental section doesn't fit". What works for some people, doesn't work for others, and what works in one song may not work as well in another.

[gentaishinigami]

I feel like the strings break would have made more sense if they were featured in the rest of the song (and prominently).  I mean i hear the same riff at the beginning but pretty sure JR is playing the sections outside of that one break.

I like it anyway but it is an odd transition at first.  I kind of feel like ripping the ambient and orchestra and putting that as the easter egg and using the other easter egg elsewhere on the album would have flowed nicer, and ended the album nicely twice (the normal IT ending then the easter egg).

Love the album more and more as i listen to it.

[wasteland]

After 3 complete listens I can't say anything except

Hey, you can't react like that! This is not the DT you signed up for

[ariich]

I do find it amusing that anyone is commenting on IT being disjointed as though this is a new thing for DT ~20 minute epics. There is the occasional recurring theme, but mostly it moves from one theme to the next and doesn't return, which is exactly the same as ACOS, Octavarium, ITPOE and TCOT.

Arguably other classic longer songs are the same, like LTL and Metropolis.

Octavarium actually uses variations of the same theme in almost every single section, and is quite cohesive as a song musically, so you're wrong on that one.
Both TCOT and ITPOE definitely have their breaks in the flow, but to me they're just done a bit better. I'm not saying they're done perfectly, just relatively better.

It's not that there's a huge difference in what the songs are doing, I just don't feel that IT does it all that effectively compared to the others. The break in the song isn't musical, it's just a stop in the song, and the whole ambient/orchestral section doesn't have a lot of context in the song to me, unlike the break in TCOT, which I think fits perfectly.

I mean, it's all subjective here of course. It's just like the whole "this instrumental section doesn't fit". What works for some people, doesn't work for others, and what works in one song may not work as well in another.

Ok fair point on Octvarium, I'll give you that one.

And yeah, I wasn't really referring to you because you haven't just used a blanket "too disjointed" comment - you've been pretty clear that the flow just doesn't work for you. I don't agree at all, I love the way the song has the break in the middle, and the orchestral stuff is wonderful, but as you say, each to their own.

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

[ariich]

Another thing that has occurred to me is that lots of people are praising how concise each song is, and I'm totally agreeing with that on the whole.

However, the one occasion where it seems like they tried too hard to do that and cut the song short is The Bigger Picture. The majority of the song is lovely, and it starts on a fantastic second section, with a new melody that I really wish they had explored further. When the song ends it feels like that new theme didn't get a chance to develop.

[The Stray Seed]

I don't agree at all, I love the way the song has the break in the middle, and the orchestral stuff is wonderful, but as you say, each to their own.

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

Totally agree.

[Filipe_metalhead]

The drums are much better. the first streams namely(TEI and AFTR) the drums seemed a bit weak. And the guitars also seemed  a bit loud which kinda distorted the quality.
But now it's all in a new dimension. It's all fresh. The guitars are in-your-face kinda sound and the drums are really involving the song. I love the production so far...

[MondayMorningLunatic]

I feel like this album didn't quite reach its full potential. For starters, Dream Theater were working with an entire orchestra, but we only hear it featured prominently a few different times, and outside of the middle section of "Illumination Theory," it just doesn't seem to enhance the album in any way. There are some problems with the production, like the odd-sounding snare at the beginning of "The Bigger Picture," the awful keyboard tone in "Along For The Ride," clipping on Petrucci's guitar, and a lot of pointless echoes on LaBrie's voice. And I hate to say it, but a lot of the melodies are just forgettable- even after listening to the album about 6 or 7 times, I can barely remember what Enigma Machine, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason sound like. If anything, DT could benefit from an extremely competent producer who will push them in the right direction creatively and sonically.

[Viking of the Sagas]

That was Portnoy's job.

And I fuckin' called it.   

[illusionist]

On repeated listens,this is becoming better than i initially thought.But still.Songs sound a bit more 'poppy' than what DT has us used to.And i sometimes get the impression of a whole bunch of -nice- ideas get thrown randomly together.Rudess is a fantastic player,but i find his improvisations on youtube to be far more interesting than his recent work with the band.He's become a little stale and, sadly,repeats himself. Labrie sounds refreshed,but his voice is sometimes hard to be heard,because of all the vocal effects they're using.There are a lot of beautiful choruses on the album nonetheless.JM can be heard clearly and is more prominent on this,but i would like him contributing more in writing and pushing the band to unexplored soundscapes.MM is a very technical and capable drummer.It's just that he doesn't try something different,maybe the others didn't let him be as creative as he could authentically be.And JP.He is responsible for many many tears shed from my eyes.His emotion,his guitar playing feeling is one that i am really connected to.He is -by far- my favorite guitarist and musician.With that being said,i expect him to be as innovative and creative and melodic as i know he can be.In this album he isn't that impressive.I didn't hear anything mindblowing,like Blind Faith riffs and solos,like BAI in its entirety,like TBOT solo,like HTF riffs,like ...I found many interesting ideas that weren't fully or best developed.I think they needed more time to breathe.And maybe JP,being a songwriter,a lyricist,a producer,a player has too many responsibilities upon him.If they hired a producer,it might have been better for him to focus on the material itself.Maybe he is a bit distracted.But then again,he knows better.
Anyways,i am not judging DT.I am just saying my opinion.And expect from my beloved band to deliver each and every time.But as fans,we are more prone to dissapointment than any random listener.And you know what?It's not our fault.They just raised the bar too high.I hope they will become again what they used to be.Our Theater of Dreams.

My favorite song as of now,must be TBP.Followed by TLG and BTV.Could they stand side by side live with the band's classics?Time will tell.

[BlobVanDam]

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.

The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.

I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.

[sylvinception]

Didn't listen to it yet, but it's fun to read your comments!!

[The Stray Seed]

Anyways,i am not judging DT.I am just saying my opinion.And expect from my beloved band to deliver each and every time.But as fans,we are more prone to dissapointment than any random listener.

Uhm... no. I, as a fan, would say this is not necessarily true.

And you know what?It's not our fault.They just raised the bar too high.I hope they will become again what they used to be.Our Theater of Dreams.

I don't see your point here either. But that's because - for me - this album is just amazing, if there is something they did with this one it really is coming back to be my Theater of Dreams. They are reborn.

[eviljust]

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.

The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.

I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.

I kinda had this feeling and what you've written here is worrying me a bit, tbh. I'll keep listen to it, basically because I still need to dig more out of it and I really liked a lot of stuff going there.

[sylvinception]

A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ?

[wasteland]

A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ?

Falling Into Infinity, Awake, Octavarium, A Dramatic Turn Of Events.

[BlobVanDam]

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.

The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.

I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.

I kinda had this feeling and what you've written here is worrying me a bit, tbh. I'll keep listen to it, basically because I still need to dig more out of it and I really liked a lot of stuff going there.

Nobody's opinion matters but your own. Don't let anyone else's opinions worry you!

[The Stray Seed]

A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ?

A Dramatic Image of Falling Awake.

[sylvinception]

A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ?

Falling Into Infinity, Awake, Octavarium, A Dramatic Turn Of Events.

======== >>>>>>>  and etc...Thanks guys I can't wait to listen it!!

[eviljust]

Nobody's opinion matters but your own. Don't let anyone else's opinions worry you!

It's just I had that kind of feeling as well
All I can say at the moment, is that I like it more than TCOT. I hope it won't last like it though, I got bored just after a couple of weeks or so.

[philippaopao]

I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.

[sylvinception]

A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ?

A Dramatic Image of Falling Awake.

EVEN BETTER!!!

[ariich]

I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.

Same, one of the things I love about DT is that they have some songs that take you on a journey rather than more traditional song structures, but that not all of their stuff is like that. Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory are the ones that do that on this album (and FAS as well I suppose), while the rest are much simpler in structure.

[erik16]

Having listened to the album all the way through a few times now (and a couple of times choosing my favourites only) I can say that for the first time since perhaps Octavarium DT has written an album that works well as a single unit. Previous albums had felt a bit disjointed (ADTOE the least and SC the most) but this one rewards full listening the most.

On the feel of the album: Dream Theater is very cinematic like JP put it, very cohesive due to the trimmed fat, quite experimental with several short songs (that is for DT) and also very song-oriented songwriting. My personal feelings are that this album is very beautiful and mysterious. It has many layers and I believe some songs will take the time to sink in.

This one is a band effort, everybody shines on it. Jordan plays tasteful at times (especially digging the piano) and then releases his wild side for mind-melting solos. JP has got the chocolate cake going and he also balances his playing really well, MM is very groovy and works well with JM, they really lay it out. JLB letting it all out in Illumination Theory.

I am in love with some of the songs, some of the songs generate interest due to their mysteriousness or quirkiness and some simply work greater in the context of the album. The only one that hasn't clicked with me yet at alL is The Looking Glass.

Rankings: TBP, IT, BTV, STR, EM, TEI, AFTR, FAS, TLG.

[Woodworker1]

I was completely blown away by the album.  It left me with an overwhelming feeling of happiness.  Favorite song by far was IT.  I loved the unpredictability of the song; this song sounds the least like anything else DT has done.  Progressive is an overused term; but IT actually does progress DT's sound.

[sylvinception]

Jesus mother flippin christ,
IT, the 11:50'ish mark, James Labrie is raping and pillaging villages with that voice.

Dear god I love this album, I'm with H almost, it's at #2 for me, but this seriously may surpass I&W.

Wow...let's calm down a little bit guys.

[Art]

After 4 or 5 spins i like the album even more. It is exactly the kind of album tha i wanted to hear from DT. Proggy as hell, with some heavy moments, some "poppy" ones, a lot of melodies instead of simply shredding. i also feel that the band is working better as a whole unit on this album, (MORE MYUNG  ) and Mangini has settled in nicely.

I am so happy. 

[JediKnight1969]

...And I hate to say it, but a lot of the melodies are just forgettable- even after listening to the album about 6 or 7 times, I can barely remember what Enigma Machine, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason sound like. If anything, DT could benefit from an extremely competent producer who will push them in the right direction creatively and sonically.

This. Sadly.

[philippaopao]

I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.

Same, one of the things I love about DT is that they have some songs that take you on a journey rather than more traditional song structures, but that not all of their stuff is like that. Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory are the ones that do that on this album (and FAS as well I suppose), while the rest are much simpler in structure.

Yup, such songs are really effective when you're in bed at night and you're about to sleep; when you close your eyes and you're preparing to dream, there are moments that you're like half-conscious and half-reflective, then a crushing riff or bass line gets to you and you're fully into the beat again. SFAM, BAI, LTL and Trial of Tears did that very well for me, haha.

[farsight]

I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.

I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.

The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.

I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.

I feel that a variation of the main intro theme also recurs in Surrender, Trust & Passion at 15:35. Much slower, but it's the same chord progression. First heavy riff is also at 15:00 or so.

[tnphelps]

I love it. Can't wait to here the CD. FAS and STR still have a little growing to do on me but the rest has everything that I love about DT. IT will quickly move into my Top 5 and may or may not challenge ACOS for the # 2 spot. TDOE is my #1 and will probably never be topped.

I'm happy. Spent most of the last 5 hrs listening to the stream.

Wait, just so we're clear..."The Dance Of Eternity" is your top DT song?

Yes.

[emtee]

Seems to be quite a divide in the fan base. Normal for a new DT album. I'm curious how this will break down between new fans and
long time fans. From what I've read so far the long time fans really seem to dig this, not 100% but a very high percentage, while
the newer fans don't connect as well with this one. I'm sure someone will do a poll at some point. Results will be interesting.

[Kotowboy]

There was more or less the same split during ADTOE discussion.

[Kotowboy]

One of my fave moments :

That Metallica style riff in Behind The Veil which has that pushed note at the end of each phrase - and the drums come back in on beat 3 of the next phrase.

[Polarbear]

After many listens now i m sad to say that the album has not clicked the way i was hoping. The bigger picture stands out to me as a best track in the album, love the blend of heavy riffs and memorable melodies. TBP also has one of the best choruses in a DT album for a long time.

IT was also pretty good but i will still rank it as a worst DT epic alongside TCOT. I would be just happy if they released an EP with those two songs on it, the rest was just mediocre. Hoping that the next album will blow me away like ADTOE in 2011