What if...?

[King Postwhore]

I thought you were a cracker, honky?!

[wolven74]

I'm curious why we need to point the finger or find blame at all.  We've only heard 2 singles. Most people who heard TEI liked it, but decided it needed to be dissected and analyzed rather than appreciated for the song itself. People have a tendency to compare sounds with DT. I've heard a lot of "it sounds like [insert song title here]" or "I hear a lot of [insert song title here] in this song" or "This song was clearly influenced by [insert song title here] on [insert album here]" It's like with this album, people can't come to grips with the fact that the single's are their own entities. I don't think either song sounds like anything they've done before. From the interviews they've done that's exactly what they were going for: something completely different than what they'd done before. If I don't like the album, I'm going to blame myself. It would be no one's fault but mine, if I was hoping it would sound like something they've done before.

[cosmicwxdude]

This thread seems a bit weird to me.   I think JR has been great with DT and I love just about all that he does for the band.    I also think ADTOE was their best offering out of the past 4 lps.  I like the more symphonic/cinematic  side of DT so am excited to here that is what we are to expect.  I have enjoyed to two new songs, although have only listened to them a couple of times and the rest of the description for the rest of the LP sounds quite promising.   Nit picky pickers you!!
 

[Daso]

I'm curious why we need to point the finger or find blame at all.  We've only heard 2 singles. Most people who heard TEI liked it, but decided it needed to be dissected and analyzed rather than appreciated for the song itself. People have a tendency to compare sounds with DT. I've heard a lot of "it sounds like [insert song title here]" or "I hear a lot of [insert song title here] in this song" or "This song was clearly influenced by [insert song title here] on [insert album here]" It's like with this album, people can't come to grips with the fact that the single's are their own entities. I don't think either song sounds like anything they've done before. From the interviews they've done that's exactly what they were going for: something completely different than what they'd done before. If I don't like the album, I'm going to blame myself. It would be no one's fault but mine, if I was hoping it would sound like something they've done before.

This thread seems a bit weird to me.   I think JR has been great with DT and I love just about all that he does for the band.    I also think ADTOE was their best offering out of the past 4 lps.  I like the more symphonic/cinematic  side of DT so am excited to here that is what we are to expect.  I have enjoyed to two new songs, although have only listened to them a couple of times and the rest of the description for the rest of the LP sounds quite promising.   Nit picky pickers you!!
 

Whoa, calm down for a second guys. OP was setting down a hypothetical situation where the album doesn't come out being any good, who would be responsible for it (assuming the blame was to place on someone)? It's not that anyone thinks the album is not good based on the songs we've heard and we're trying to find someone to charge as guilty already.

[hefdaddy42]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

You don't like Octavarium?

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I'm curious why we need to point the finger or find blame at all.  We've only heard 2 singles. Most people who heard TEI liked it, but decided it needed to be dissected and analyzed rather than appreciated for the song itself. People have a tendency to compare sounds with DT. I've heard a lot of "it sounds like [insert song title here]" or "I hear a lot of [insert song title here] in this song" or "This song was clearly influenced by [insert song title here] on [insert album here]" It's like with this album, people can't come to grips with the fact that the single's are their own entities. I don't think either song sounds like anything they've done before. From the interviews they've done that's exactly what they were going for: something completely different than what they'd done before. If I don't like the album, I'm going to blame myself. It would be no one's fault but mine, if I was hoping it would sound like something they've done before.

Part of the reason this happens is because over the years DT has been very open about letting their influences be known in certain songs and in their songwriting process.

[Rattlehead]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

I guess that makes me nuts too... 8VM is easily my least favorite album by DT.

[Scorpion]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

Same here.

I guess that makes me nuts too... 8VM is easily my least favorite album by DT.

[Outcrier]

Nah, I blame Petrucci and Rudess. Petrucci began with those "cookie-monster riffs" around 2004, 2005. Since then he has been composing like that. "The Enemy Inside" is a perfect example. And it is becoming boring for me because in the I&W-Awake era he composed a lot better, not only these riffs.

And I don't like Rudess' taste. I dislike his solos, specially with iPad. I wish he would stop playing iPad and make a real solo or a good melody.

That's true.

[manticore999]

The last ones with Portnoy were pretty bad, IMO, but I don't blame Mike (entirely) for that.  I loved ADTOE, but if this one isn't to my liking I wouldn't think MM was responsible at all.  JP and JR write most of the music, don't they?  I would think they're more responsible than MM.

[?]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

Same here.

I guess that makes me nuts too... 8VM is easily my least favorite album by DT.

8VM is a bottom 2 DT album for me so apparently I'm crazy too.

[KevShmev]

I must be crazy as well.  I love the song Octavarium, but the rest of the album is pretty uneven; it ranges from good but not overly memorable (Panic Attack, The Root of All Evil) to boring (These Walls, The Answer Lies Within) to mediocre (Never Enough).  If I never heard tracks 1-7 from 8V ever again, I probably wouldn't care.  There is no other DT album where I can say that (not caring about hearing every song but one) about.

[manticore999]

I prefer ADTOE the most, but anybody who says Octavarium is a less than subpar album is nuts.

Hi, I'm nuts. Octavarium is my third least favourite Dream Theater album, right after Black Clouds and Train of Thought.

I'm also nuts.

Same here.

I guess that makes me nuts too... 8VM is easily my least favorite album by DT.

8VM is a bottom 2 DT album for me so apparently I'm crazy too.

[Daybreak at the lake]

I would say is JP. He has written so much music that it would be inevitable for the well to be dried up at some point. Wish he would get his old phrasing back, though.

[King Postwhore]

I love the sound of 8VM.  It's still better than SC and Awake for me.  I am in the minority with Awake.  I loved it at first but over time, I've slowly played it less and less.

[jmasterx]

Maybe people blame MM because his drums don't sound great. Not what he's playing, but the actual drum sound. On a song like AFTR, you don't want a kick and snare that sound heavy metal. It should sound like the kick and snare from say Sacrificed Sons or TSCO. I do wonder if this has to do with the fact that they miced up everything so that things they improvised could make it to the final record. This might have the disadvantage of less flexibility with the drum sound from song to song.

Though in general, I do not really like the sound of his drums for DT. I wish he had one of MP's monsters with his Melody Master snare.

For me, MM's snare is like hearing the St. Anger snare.

If they had gone with Marco then maybe this wouldn't be an issue. I absolutely love the sound of his kit on Steven Wilson's Raven album.

[King Postwhore]

That is a foolish statement,  change the drummers for a different sound?!  It is obvious in the interviews with JP that "They" went for this sound.  It's a choice to try this.  Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't but at least all these years later they are not trying to put out the same thing from record to record.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Maybe people blame MM because his drums don't sound great. Not what he's playing, but the actual drum sound. On a song like AFTR, you don't want a kick and snare that sound heavy metal. It should sound like the kick and snare from say Sacrificed Sons or TSCO. I do wonder if this has to do with the fact that they miced up everything so that things they improvised could make it to the final record. This might have the disadvantage of less flexibility with the drum sound from song to song.

Though in general, I do not really like the sound of his drums for DT. I wish he had one of MP's monsters with his Melody Master snare.

For me, MM's snare is like hearing the St. Anger snare.

If they had gone with Marco then maybe this wouldn't be an issue. I absolutely love the sound of his kit on Steven Wilson's Raven album.

lol @ this delusion.

[jmasterx]

I'm referring strictly hypothetically and to the drum sound. I'm not actually suggesting to change drummers.

Even on ADTOE I did not really like the sound of his drums compared to MP's.

[King Postwhore]

Now that I understand and I too love, love, love the drum sound, hell, all of the instruments on TRTRTS but I think it's a contentious effort in what they are doing.  Do I agree with it like Rush's Clockwork Angels?  No, but I still love that album and can get by the sound quality.


Edit:  But you did say if they went with Marco maybe it would not be an issue but I disagree.  Steven Wilson is the reason Marco's drums sound awesome with input from Marco and JP is the reason the drum sound on the new album is what it is.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I'm referring strictly hypothetically and to the drum sound. I'm not actually suggesting to change drummers.

Even on ADTOE I did not really like the sound of his drums compared to MP's.

At this point, I don't even know how much influence MM had over the sound. JP chose the stylistic direction of the sound of the album. I sorta suspect everything else was directed to fit into that mold. I'm not saying he had no say in the sound of his drums; I'm saying I think the result with respect to this sound on the album would have been fairly similar regardless of the drummer chosen.

If you watch that last in the studio video, MM alludes to his deference to JP.

[jmasterx]

Yeah, I guess it is. It's just weird that, MP leaves and all of a sudden the drums have all kinds of weird sound. For TEI I said to myself, okay, heavy riff can benefit from heavy drums, but when I heard AFTR I was thinking... what??? I do not see how super heavy, almost trigger sounding kick and snare can benefit a ballad. I hear new albums coming out these days and they all sound as I would expect in terms of drums. I don't know why JP or the others would think a ballad benefits from a drumkit from hell sound.

For me, in a good album, I hear every instrument, but none sticks out. If one does, it should be for emphasis of the part, like a solo.

In AFTR, the drums distract me from what everyone else is doing.

[King Postwhore]

And that has been a problem in modern recording that the separation of instruments is missing but as long as the music is killers I can deal with it.

[?]

MP was the co-producer on the albums before his departure, so I bet JP gave him free hands with the drum sound.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Yeah, I guess it is. It's just weird that, MP leaves and all of a sudden the drums have all kinds of weird sound. For TEI I said to myself, okay, heavy riff can benefit from heavy drums, but when I heard AFTR I was thinking... what??? I do not see how super heavy, almost trigger sounding kick and snare can benefit a ballad. I hear new albums coming out these days and they all sound as I would expect in terms of drums. I don't know why JP or the others would think a ballad benefits from a drumkit from hell sound.

For me, in a good album, I hear every instrument, but none sticks out. If one does, it should be for emphasis of the part, like a solo.

In AFTR, the drums distract me from what everyone else is doing.

I completely understand and agree with this sentiment. But MP would not have deferred to JP for his drum sound.

It's also possible that once JP said how he wanted the album to sound, MM simply just tried to work with the engineer to make it sound in that style.

As I said in a previous post, I don't fully believe that MM, with his expert drum knowledge and vast experience as a studio musician for numerous artists over the years, conceived this sound out of his own mind because he believed it sounds wonderful. I don't have a major problem with any of his previous drum sounds on his other albums. 

[convrge]

I completely understand and agree with this sentiment. But MP would not have deferred to JP for his drum sound.

True. But that's because MP was a co-producer as well as the drummer.

The engineer, mixer, (and eventually masterer) control the sonic quality of the album, which are ultimately directed by the producer. JP as sole producer in this case, is responsible for the overall direction and sound of the album.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I completely understand and agree with this sentiment. But MP would not have deferred to JP for his drum sound.

True. But that's because MP was a co-producer as well as the drummer.

The engineer, mixer, (and eventually masterer) control the sonic quality of the album, which are ultimately directed by the producer. JP as sole producer in this case, is responsible for the overall direction and sound of the album.

Yep. You and I are saying basically the same thing