My thoughts on 'Dream Theater' (***SPOILERS***)

[m0hawk]

Sweet, Aussies! Melbournian reporting in, here. Where are youse guys from? (the "youse" was parody)

[hefdaddy42]

This is not a chat thread.

[matte.braso]

A couple of people commenting on the Shaman's blog who have listened to the album rank The Looking Glass, IT, The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason as the best songs in the album.
In particular a guy has given his opinions on the general quality of the album (sorry for the bad traslation from spanish, is not my language). Nothing really new from what we already know, though...
I post that in this thread in order to see if cyber and Meatrose can confirm these assessments.

'IT is not worse than Octavarium. That I assure you. The majority will like IT more than 8V.
Among the short songs, there is some jewel, and you' ll discover what they are, because it is not hard to do.
The rest of the album takes a positive evaluation at least.
When I heard the album last week, it was obvious to me that TEI was going to be the single, for the kind of song it is because the other tracks, even the shorter ones, are more complex especially for the public not used to the prog.
The album is a gem from top to bottom, no weaknesses in any time or place. It's a question of taste, but TBP, TLG and EM fascinated me (all the songs did, and I won't say anything about IT, because it's from another planet).
Jordan said some time ago that Mike Mangini was the "shining star" of this work, and his statement is true, but there are many highlights of everyone else.'

[Asking the similarities with ADTOE or any other album]:

'At various points yes (TEI clearly reminds OTBOA).
However, DT12 has elements of all discs (seems they did that intentionally, and that's why they self titled the album).
On this album predominate ADTOE, SDOIT, I & W, Octavarium, WDADU and SFAM vibes, but  it' s heavier than all those.
ADTOE for me was very good. This is a little better.

What happens with every DT album is that it ends up being something very personal for everyone. Never unanimous judgements with them, beceause many fans tend to over-analyze too much rather than enjoy the music, although SC and BCSL are considered the weakest from the majority of the fans.
Still, I think many people will dislike DT12, but is far superior to ToT which achieved wide acceptance.
For example, there are some people who miss Portnoy, while I consider DT has improved musically with Mangini (Portnoy could not play many drum parts in ADTOE and much less of the superbly performed ones on DT12).
You will hear and judge. It's the album that synthesizes DT more clearly.
[...]
DT12 is pretty good (I heard it completely for several days), but we need to hear it several times to capture what the band got.
It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
All that stands out in DT12: how well Mangini fits to the band, how good is Petrucci as producer without Portnoy, Muyng's return to prominence, the increasingly smarter musical approach from Rudess, how is LaBrie's voice revitalized and the hard work of Rich Chycki.'

another user:

'The mix is the sharpest from FII. The warmth of LaBrie is even higher than that shown in ADTOE. This album sounds very solid, and contains some heavy [loud] moments, but is generally maintained to a comfort zone [in terms of loudness] in which sounds incredibly good.
It's a story, but more abstract than SFAM. You'll see, it's a pretty epic story about fighting against yourself and overcome, or so I understood.'

[Tis BOOLsheet]

A couple of people commenting on the Shaman's blog who have listened to the album ranks The Looking Glass, IT, The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason as the best songs in the album.
In particular a guy has given his opinions on the general quality of the album (sorry for the bad traslation from spanish, is not my language). Nothing really new from what we already know, though...
I post that in this thread in order to see if cyber and Meatrose can confirm these assessments.

'IT is not worse than Octavarium. That I assure you. The majority will like IT more than 8V.
Among the short songs, there is some jewel, and you' ll discover what they are, because it is not hard to do.
The rest of the album takes a positive evaluation at least.
When I heard the album last week, it was obvious to me that TEI was going to be the single, for the kind of song it is because the other tracks, even the shorter ones, are more complex especially for the public not used to the prog.
The album is a gem from top to bottom, no weaknesses in any time or place. It's a question of taste, but TBP, TLG and EM fascinated me (all the songs did, and I won't say anything about IT, because it's from another planet).
Jordan said some time ago that Mike Mangini was the "shining star" of this work, and his statement is true, but there are many highlights of everyone else.'

[Asking the similarities with ADTOE or any other album]:

'At various points yes (TEI clearly reminds OTBOA).
However, DT12 has elements of all discs (seems they did that intentionally, and that's why they self titled the album).
On this album predominate ADTOE, SDOIT, I & W, Octavarium, WDADU and SFAM vibes, but  it' s heavier than all those.
ADTOE for me was very good. This is a little better.

What happens with every DT album is that it ends up being something very personal for everyone. Never unanimous judgements with them, beceause many fans tend to over-analyze too much rather than enjoy the music, although SC and BCSL are considered the weakest from the majority of the fans.
Still, I think many people will dislike DT12, but is far superior to ToT which achieved wide acceptance.
For example, there are some people who miss Portnoy, while I consider DT has improved musically with Mangini (Portnoy could not play many drum parts in ADTOE and much less of the superbly performed ones on DT12).
You will hear and judge. It's the album that synthesizes DT more clearly.
[...]
DT12 is pretty good (I heard him completely for several days), but we need to hear it several times to capture what the band got.
It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
All that stands out in DT12: how well Mangini fits to the band, how good is Petrucci as producer without Portnoy, Muyng's return to prominence, the increasingly smarter musical approach from Rudess, how is LaBrie's voice revitalized and the hard work of Rich Chycki.'

another user:

'The mix is the sharpest from FII. The warmth of LaBrie is even higher than that shown in ADTOE. This album sounds very solid, and contains some heavy [loud] moments, but is generally maintained to a comfort zone [in terms of loudness] in which sounds incredibly good.
It's a story, but more abstract than SFAM. You'll see, it's a pretty epic story about fighting against yourself and overcome, or so I understood.'

Assuming I've drawn the proper meaning from this statement and he meant to say TEI clearly reminds (allegedly because it sounds similar) of OTBOA, that statement alone is enough to discredit that entire review.

TEI sounds nothing like OTBOA. And if someone cannot listen to those two songs and and tell how different they are, then there's no point in my assuming I can take away anything else from the other comments.

We are a month away from the album. Things that ship can arrive a couple days early, so we are potentially even less than a month away. I'm just going to wait it out and suspend the rest of my assumptions about it. I probably will take much less seriously these reviews, unless they sound like they come from someone who has clearly listened to the album and is a good listener. 

[wolven74]

The only thing I can take seriously from any review from any listener at this point is that most people who've heard it like it. I can't take rankings serious, but what I've read in reviews so far is positive.

[?]

The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.

[aprilethereal]

The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.

I don't think some similarities in the solo justify calling two songs that sound completely different similar. I just don't get it.

[Implode]

My first thought is that they were kind of similar too. It must be the key. For the first week after listening the TEI, whenever i tried to hum the melody, I always morphed it into OTBOA.

[lightbug]

The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.

the keyboard session after the first chorus reminds me of ADTOE, and the solo of ADTOE is quite better than TEI

[wasteland]

I immediately perceived the solos' affinity. More than once I wondered how both songs would sound should we swap the solos.

Anyway, lots of delightful comments on the shaman's blog, I cannot wait to have the CD in my hands!

[Outcrier]

It's their best work since the great SDOIT.

I doubt it, it will already be a surprise if it is better than 8varium at least

[Tis BOOLsheet]

It's their best work since the great SDOIT.

I doubt it, it will already be a surprise if it is better than 8varium at least

Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.

[Dellers]

My first thought is that they were kind of similar too. It must be the key. For the first week after listening the TEI, whenever i tried to hum the melody, I always morphed it into OTBOA.

Pretty much this. After listening to TEI OTBOA always kept playing in my head.

[Dark Castle]

It's their best work since the great SDOIT.

I doubt it, it will already be a surprise if it is better than 8varium at least

Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.

You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.

[nestcmartin]

Guys, don't take that comments too seriously. Anyone can post in my blog, and this past month there have been many trolls and fake listeners. But it's funny to see that translation, usually my work is the other way around! 

[matte.braso]

Guys, don't take that comments too seriously. Anyone can post in my blog, and this past month there have been many trolls and fake listeners. But it's funny to see that translation, usually my work is the other way around! 

most of my post is taken from the comments of the user Luis Alberto, who I think is not lying. The last part is from Rabaco Letal Tijuana, who has written one of the first track by track impressions which you can read translated in this site the 1st of august (in the old DT12 thread iirc).

but there's also a comment in which the user The Shaman's Blog assumes to have listened to the album..............is he a fake a listener or not?

[Outcrier]

nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date."

Well, this "best work to date" thing is just a bullsh*t... I'm talking about realistic expectations here

[Mosh]

The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.

I don't think some similarities in the solo justify calling two songs that sound completely different similar. I just don't get it.

A lot of the riffs in between verses of both songs are in a similar vein. The style of the two songs are so different that it doesn't really matter anyway.

[RMGadelha]

One of the posts also mentioned how James' performance on TEI reminded him of awake and that it would blow our minds. While I do like his vocals, I'm afraid to say that what he said was far from the truth.

[BlobVanDam]

Pretty worthless review(s) imo. It's mostly just a bunch of subjective comparisons to other DT songs/albums, which I'll no doubt disagree with entirely (and already disagree strongly with with the few that are already relevant).

[aprilethereal]

Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.

You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.

Being better than SDOIT on the other hand doesn't sound like a big accomplishment.

[BlobVanDam]

Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.

You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.

Being better than SDOIT on the other hand doesn't sound like a big accomplishment.

trolol.

SDOIT is their best album, you silly boy.

[aprilethereal]

You'll never know the truth, Blob

[BlobVanDam]

You must have an incorrect copy of SDOIT. They probably accidentally stamped it with WDADU or something.

[jayvee3]

You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.

The song - yes, absolutely. The album - meh..

[Outcrier]

SDOIT is their best album, you silly boy.

Recently, i've been leaning more towards SDOIT than SFAM

[noxon]

The statements do sound like they come from someone who actually heard the album, as there are details in there that i've not seen mention much elsewhere which are kinda true. Although I do not agree that the album tells "a story", as he said. It's more of a overarching theme for the album (much in the same vein of how BCSL was an album with a theme).  Whether or not one agrees?

Well, he has a point in that every single album DT has released has been splitting the fanbase. The first one I recall was FII, which had a huge negative reaction. SFAM was much more positively recieved but even there there were fans who just couldn't stand the change in direction from the preceding albums. SDOIT is the one that sticks to my memory as the one with the most harsh fan reactions - but it may be that i've become so adjusted to half of the fans not liking an album by now that i don't react to it anymore. We even did an interview with Mike Portnoy at that time where he covered the fact that people are so split in reactions to whatever they do, and the reason we asked that question was because of how the album was recieved...

[CodyWanKenobi]

Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?

[ariich]

Well, he has a point in that every single album DT has released has been splitting the fanbase. The first one I recall was FII, which had a huge negative reaction. SFAM was much more positively recieved but even there there were fans who just couldn't stand the change in direction from the preceding albums. SDOIT is the one that sticks to my memory as the one with the most harsh fan reactions - but it may be that i've become so adjusted to half of the fans not liking an album by now that i don't react to it anymore. We even did an interview with Mike Portnoy at that time where he covered the fact that people are so split in reactions to whatever they do, and the reason we asked that question was because of how the album was recieved...

I completely agree with all of this. And to be honest, it's not just DT, it's basically the case with all bands who have a very large and diverse fanbase and have been around for a long time. They pick up so many fans from different backgrounds and tastes that the fanbase is full of different likes and dislikes. So any particular album or song will please some and repel others.

[Meatrose]

Yeah, given how passionate DTs fans are in general and given how diverse our opinions tend to be I think that it's impossible for them to release an album that speaks to everyone cause if they tried to do that we would probably be saying that "they played it safe" or that the album, as a musical statement, wasn't bold enough. Will DT12 also be splitting the fanbase? Yes it will, but I think it will do so in a different way (compared to a lot of their previous records). I think that the split caused by records like Train of Thought had those who prefer the kind of songwriting DT did during the 90's on one side and those who embraced the more metal-oriented aspects of the band on the other. My prediction is that this is not how it's going to play out this time.

The Enemy Inside is not at all, in my opinion, representative of the album as a whole. There is a bigger focus on melodic movements this time around and the one thing that stands out to me, now that it's been a week since I attended the listening party, is that the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.

[matte.braso]

the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.

exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!

[Meatrose]

the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.

exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!

Yes, it is different. Remember that it being more melodically driven is only a good thing if you actually like and enjoy those melodic movements.

Some will like it, some won't, though I think it's safe to say that everyone will find something they like on the album as it has a lot to offer.

[Estiui]

Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?

I'm also interested in this.

the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.

exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!

Absolutely. However, my mind is about to explode: is this album heavier and more melodic at the same time?

[noxon]

Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?

My initial reaction to the album was very much colored by the way it sounds, and it just wasn't that pleasant for me. It was a case of hearing fatigue where the loudness caused none of the melodies to stick. I found the album to be bland and melodyless, but it turned out that the reason for it was the way I was listening to the album (too loud) and that colored my judgments a lot. After i broke the album down, and started listening to single elements, i found qualities in there that are very very good. And this is not a reaction i'm alone with - several of the other promo holders i've spoken too has had the same reaction...

So I'd say the album has improved a lot. In fact, it's very much opposite of what SC and BCSL was in the regard - where I initially ranked the album much higher than I do now. But i mean, there's 12 albums, and four of them will require superhuman feats of musicianship to break their nostalgic power they hold over me, so NO album will probably ever be much more than "above average" for me as --- unless DT becomes as proficient as Frank Zappa was and releases 50 more albums

"There's enough old and new here to keep any Dream Theater fan happy as well as attracting even more new fans, proving to us all that Dream Theater still has much life in it and will be with us for many many years to come. This is an album that fans will love, I'm sure of it."  <- part of my conclusion in my review.

[Meatrose]

the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.

exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!

Absolutely. However, my mind is about to explode: is this album heavier and more melodic at the same time?

Pretty much, yes, though it depends on what you're comparing it to. It's not Train of Thought-heavy and I think that different listeners have different definitions of what "more melodic" actually means. I'm especially reluctant to make any definitive statements on how heavy the album is due to the fact we got to listen to it on a sub-optimal system. Besides, I wouldn't use the term "more melodic" when talking about my first impressions. More like "more melodically driven".