New York City 3/4/93 - Ytsejam Records - Is it good?

[krieger]

Hello!

I really dig those official bootleg. Okay, one amazing thing MP did for DT. 

In fact, I'd rather listen to Awake and FII demos than the final versions! (FII is a lot better in demo form, and I prefer the order of songs from Awake demos). 

But I wonder about the NY live 93. Is it good? Is it like Live at Budokan or the video Live in Japan, or there's something different, something unexpected, something new there?

...

Another questions - the ToT demo - is the original without the vocals, or are they from another recording session, with different stuff?

Thank you! 

[Victor Alexandrov]

It's the best live recording from the IAW era, IMHO.

[Sketchy]

It is very good. It rocks balls hard.

[TL]

I really like it. It has a great energy to it.

[krieger]

Hm... 3 out of 3.

So... bought it! 

Thank you guys!

[Perpetual Change]

It's the best live recording from the IAW era, IMHO.

I'd say that belongs to LiT, but since there is no soundtrack to that available, the NYC bootleg is easily the best live album from that era.

There's also a great video bootleg from the Awake tour with Sherinian, which is also very good, but unfortunately that has never been ytsejam'd.

[MoraWintersoul]

It's amazing!

[Sketchy]

Hey, don't buy it yet! We've not finished telling you how great it is.

[Scorpion]

It's the only YJR release that I own. Between all of I&W, the best version of Eve and the original ACOS (which isn't quite as good as what the song became, but certainly an interesting listen), this might just be my favourite DT live album, even though it is not an official one.

[wasteland]

It's a landmark for their career. Their first show in two act, their first 2h show (or nearly so) and longest to date, the first live performance of Eve, To Live Forever and ACOS. Plus, an all round great performance.

An absolute must have, great purchase.

[Onno]

Yes, it is.

[ResultsMayVary]

It's the best bootleg you can get from Ytse Jam.

[bosk1]

live performance of Eve

Dude!  Don't scare him off.  I think he wants to try to enjoy it.

[krieger]

It's a landmark for their career. Their first show in two act, their first 2h show (or nearly so) and longest to date, the first live performance of Eve, To Live Forever and ACOS. Plus, an all round great performance.

Good to know about those things! And Eve is a good song... 

[Ben_Jamin]

Its great but its funny hearing Take The Time without the backing vocals in the chorus.

[Setlist Scotty]

Their first show in two act, their first 2h show (or nearly so) and longest to date, the first live performance of Eve, To Live Forever and ACOS.

Tsk tsk Wasteland. To Live Forever had been performed a number of times at that point, going back to Nov 25, 1988 (their first show as "Dream Theater") and ACoS had been played twice before in 1990. You of all people should know better! 

[?]

It's the only YJR release that I own. Between all of I&W, the best version of Eve and the original ACOS (which isn't quite as good as what the song became, but certainly an interesting listen), this might just be my favourite DT live album, even though it is not an official one.

All of this.

[wasteland]

Their first show in two act, their first 2h show (or nearly so) and longest to date, the first live performance of Eve, To Live Forever and ACOS.

Tsk tsk Wasteland. To Live Forever had been performed a number of times at that point, going back to Nov 25, 1988 (their first show as "Dream Theater") and ACoS had been played twice before in 1990. You of all people should know better! 

You of all people should know I never consider the CD performances, and at the time it was performed instrumentally ACOS wasn't even complete!

[hefdaddy42]

Yes, go buy the damned thing.

[aprilethereal]

Another questions - the ToT demo - is the original without the vocals, or are they from another recording session, with different stuff?

It's just an instrumental demo, don't expect it to be like the ADTOE and BC&SL instrumental mixes, which are basically the album without vocals. This is not the case with the TOT demo (hence the "demo" in the name)

[Weymolith]

Does the Pope shit in the Vatican?

Would that be a holy shit?

[MoraWintersoul]

Also, krieger, your avvie is wonderful

[Setlist Scotty]

Their first show in two act, their first 2h show (or nearly so) and longest to date, the first live performance of Eve, To Live Forever and ACOS.

Tsk tsk Wasteland. To Live Forever had been performed a number of times at that point, going back to Nov 25, 1988 (their first show as "Dream Theater") and ACoS had been played twice before in 1990. You of all people should know better! 

You of all people should know I never consider the CD performances, and at the time it was performed instrumentally ACOS wasn't even complete!

You may not consider the CD or instrumental performances, but that doesn't mean they don't exist! And ACoS was complete by the time they did the show in November, but wasn't performed with a vocalist for obvious reasons. 

[wasteland]

Hence the performance was not complete 


Can we agree at least on Eve? That you know the song had been written on the road or was it a studio leftover by Kevin?

[Setlist Scotty]

Can we agree at least on Eve? That you know the song had been written on the road or was it a studio leftover by Kevin?

LOL! OK, we can agree on Eve. 

To answer your question, I don't know for certain if it was written on the road or in the studio, but I'd wager that it was something they came up with on the road, perhaps not unlike Bombay Vindaloo and the other instrumental songs they featured on the 1993; I recall JP admitting that the reason why Barfbag (the instrumental on the last European leg of the tour - fall 1993) was given that name was because that was what he wrote the initial song ideas on (likely while on an airplane while on tour). Additionally, in an article from 2002 about the making of IaW (in the Theatre of Dreams fanzine), no mention was made of Eve being a song that could be on the album, so I doubt it was written before they went on tour.

However, while the song may have began with an idea from Kevin, I don't believe it's a song that could just be considered as Kevin's - I don't have my Japanese copy of Awake handy (and can't check the credits) but I do believe that the song is credited to the band. I also remember MP telling me at one point that Eve was inspired by the music of Twin Peaks, in particular Laura Palmer's Theme, so unless Kevin was as big a Twin Peaks fan as MP, I doubt the song was just his.

[Onno]

Can we agree at least on Eve? That you know the song had been written on the road or was it a studio leftover by Kevin?

LOL! OK, we can agree on Eve. 

To answer your question, I don't know for certain if it was written on the road or in the studio, but I'd wager that it was something they came up with on the road, perhaps not unlike Bombay Vindaloo and the other instrumental songs they featured on the 1993; I recall JP admitting that the reason why Barfbag (the instrumental on the last European leg of the tour - fall 1993) was given that name was because that was what he wrote the initial song ideas on (likely while on an airplane while on tour). Additionally, in an article from 2002 about the making of IaW (in the Theatre of Dreams fanzine), no mention was made of Eve being a song that could be on the album, so I doubt it was written before they went on tour.

However, while the song may have began with an idea from Kevin, I don't believe it's a song that could just be considered as Kevin's - I don't have my Japanese copy of Awake handy (and can't check the credits) but I do believe that the song is credited to the band. I also remember MP telling me at one point that Eve was inspired by the music of Twin Peaks, in particular Laura Palmer's Theme, so unless Kevin was as big a Twin Peaks fan as MP, I doubt the song was just his.

Oh, I didn't know that, thanks for the info! I'm a really big Twin Peaks fan and while Eve reminded me a bit of the TP theme, I've never actually known that there was a connection.

[wasteland]

@Scott: And yet MP remarked that it was ironic that the last song played live by Kevin with the band was indeed Eve, being the song mostly Kevin's.

[Setlist Scotty]

@Scott: And yet MP remarked that it was ironic that the last song played live by Kevin with the band was indeed Eve, being the song mostly Kevin's.

True - I recall that comment, altho I don't remember the exact words he used. However, I wouldn't consider that song any more Kevin's than I would consider 6:00, which the band has said Kevin brought in pretty much complete, altho the band did make some changes to it. Like I said, I don't have my Japanese copy of Awake handy, so I can't check the songwriting credit on Eve (which was the track on the bonus 3" CD), but I'm almost 100% positive that the song was credited to "Dream Theater" and not "Kevin Moore".

[Grizz]

Being that this was the last I&W show, Damn the Machine hired a stripper who went out on stage during Wait for Sleep, and did her thing. Damn the Machine also did such things as throwing garbage from the balcony out on to the band and other end-of-tour hijinx. At this show, James threw his voice out really bad, so they didn't play Learning to Live for the encore. The fact that they ended this show with Eve (pretty much Kevin's song) is ironic since this was the last Dream Theater show with Kevin (although no one realized this at the time).

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=226
Also, that's not irony.

[ytserush]

@Scott: And yet MP remarked that it was ironic that the last song played live by Kevin with the band was indeed Eve, being the song mostly Kevin's.

True - I recall that comment, altho I don't remember the exact words he used. However, I wouldn't consider that song any more Kevin's than I would consider 6:00, which the band has said Kevin brought in pretty much complete, altho the band did make some changes to it. Like I said, I don't have my Japanese copy of Awake handy, so I can't check the songwriting credit on Eve (which was the track on the bonus 3" CD), but I'm almost 100% positive that the song was credited to "Dream Theater" and not "Kevin Moore".

Scotty is right. The music to Eve sports a Dream Theater credit on the Japanese 3" and on the UK The Silent Man CD single.

That said, I've always associated that song with Kevin for a bunch of stupid reasons with no basis in fact.

[MoraWintersoul]

That said, I've always associated that song with Kevin for a bunch of stupid reasons with no basis in fact.

Well, it sounds a whole lot like something he'd write on his own, so whatever your reasons, they're probably not stupid.

[The Curious Orange]

I have to say while I love the YtseJam releases, and I'm glad we've got them (more please!) if you compare them to the excellent live recordings Marillion offer via their website, all of the DT releases are disappointing sound-wise.

[ytserush]

That said, I've always associated that song with Kevin for a bunch of stupid reasons with no basis in fact.

Well, it sounds a whole lot like something he'd write on his own, so whatever your reasons, they're probably not stupid.

Sounds like it to me too. 

I think Kevin knew he was leaving by that point and that was his farewell. I also think that's pretty impossible to prove at this point.   

The strangest thing was being so pumped after the show back then and then having that song come on and having an overwhelming feeling of sadness.  In a way though I think it was a great help in helping me to get over his leaving along with the music he was writing at the time. It just seemed so obvious to me after hearing his first post-Dream Theater music.

[MoraWintersoul]

That said, I've always associated that song with Kevin for a bunch of stupid reasons with no basis in fact.

Well, it sounds a whole lot like something he'd write on his own, so whatever your reasons, they're probably not stupid.

Sounds like it to me too. 

I think Kevin knew he was leaving by that point and that was his farewell. I also think that's pretty impossible to prove at this point.   

The strangest thing was being so pumped after the show back then and then having that song come on and having an overwhelming feeling of sadness.  In a way though I think it was a great help in helping me to get over his leaving along with the music he was writing at the time. It just seemed so obvious to me after hearing his first post-Dream Theater music.

MP mentions in the Awake demos booklet that the whole last stage of Images-touring and pre-Awake period was full of Kevin demoing stuff on his own and the DT guys "appeasing his taste" by recording some of it in a band capacity, like Eve or later SDV. So by the time Eve was adapted for the show (HEAVY SPECULATION BASED ON LOGIC INCOMING) there must have been a few other things he brought up to a DT member that induced a comment such as "this is cool, I like this, it's so not Dream Theater". I've recently experienced some things, both in a professional and friendly and even romantic settings - when you get into something new, and you're becoming REALLY attached to it, and prominent figures in your life or people you work with brush it off, or aren't into it as much as you, it kind of distances you from that relationships or previous things you were doing because this new thing fits you like a glove, and you've just worn off a part of your past. I'm sure everyone can sympathize with that. So maybe, by the time Eve was finished, he was having thoughts of leaving, or maybe even a decision.

Yeah, totally, Eve makes so much sense when seen through an early Chroma Key lense. Even though I've ran into it 20 years later than you it still produces a "aaaaaah so THAT'S what it's all about".

[ytserush]

Yeah, totally, Eve makes so much sense when seen through an early Chroma Key lense. Even though I've ran into it 20 years later than you it still produces a "aaaaaah so THAT'S what it's all about".

It sure does!