The Enemy Inside Discussion Thread

[TheGreatPretender]

Man, he got fat! 

Well, it has been almost 25 years.

[Meatrose]

Wow, this would be the first time since WDADU that we only get one epic? Not going to complain, I was hoping that they'd tone down the long songs a bit.

A song doesn't have to be long to be epic (although I get that thinking so is a common misconception).

A song doesn't have to be long to be epic. It has to be long to be an epic though.

In the first sentence we're looking at an adjective. In the second sentence it's a noun.

When a prog musician refers to a song as being "an epic" I don't think that they are saying that the song is epic (that's up to the listener to decide), just that it follows a set of loosely established principles - it's fairly long even by prog standards, it has several different themes. Stuff like that.

[aprilethereal]

Seeing as no time has been confirmed for its release tomorrow, who's going to be on their computer all day tomorrow refreshing?

It's been confirmed, around 17:00 / 5 pm here in Germany. The original time announcement was for another timezone, but I don't remember what exactly it was.

[TheGreatPretender]

Wow, this would be the first time since WDADU that we only get one epic? Not going to complain, I was hoping that they'd tone down the long songs a bit.

A song doesn't have to be long to be epic (although I get that thinking so is a common misconception).

A song doesn't have to be long to be epic. It has to be long to be an epic though.

In the first sentence we're looking at an adjective. In the second sentence it's a noun.

When a prog musician refers to a song as being "an epic" I don't think that they are saying that the song is epic (that's up to the listener to decide), just that it follows a set of loosely established principles - it's fairly long even by prog standards, it has several different themes. Stuff like that.

Well, I'd call songs like The Killing Hand and Metropolis an epic in spite of their shorter lengths. But honestly, even songs with big progressive instrumental breakdowns, like Sacrificed Sons, or Endless Sacrifice, I would not call an epic. As such, I'd say both ToT and 8VM had only one epic.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Judging by duration, you´ll get your "epic" with the last song going over the 20 minute mark. But great albums from the 80´s had little over a half hour of music and were epic in their own way: Powerslave, Piece of Mind, Hemispheres, A Farewell to Kings, Master of Puppets, Van Halen II...

[ariich]

Such short songs... So this means no long instrumental interludes. Is this that "mainstream" thing?

Well the first track and one of the others are instrumental tracks in their entirety, there's bound to be plenty of instrumental goodness in IT, and 6-7 minute songs have plenty of scope for shorter instrumental sections in them. So, no, I don't think so.

[Lucien]

Short songs can have long instrumental sections...


Fatal Tragedy has one, first thing that came to mind

[TheGreatPretender]

Such short songs... So this means no long instrumental interludes. Is this that "mainstream" thing?

Well the first track and one of the others are instrumental tracks in their entirety, there's bound to be plenty of instrumental goodness in IT, and 6-7 minute songs have plenty of scope for shorter instrumental sections in them. So, no, I don't think so.

I hope the second instrumental is as crazy as The Dance Of Eternity. Or crazier. Not another Hell's Kitchen.

[atmyne]

Such short songs... So this means no long instrumental interludes. Is this that "mainstream" thing?

Well the first track and one of the others are instrumental tracks in their entirety, there's bound to be plenty of instrumental goodness in IT, and 6-7 minute songs have plenty of scope for shorter instrumental sections in them. So, no, I don't think so.

I hope the second instrumental is as crazy as The Dance Of Eternity. Or crazier. Not another Hell's Kitchen.

each to their own, but I think hells kitchen > the dance of eternity. I think Hells kitchen offers a little more musically, which i know sounds weird given tdoe has SO MANY musical things thrown at the listener.
Anyway, assuming some of the "foreign" reviews I have read are credible, the instrumental is likely to be in the same vein as the ytse jam, which is another instrumental that I personally enjoy more than tdoe.

[JayOctavarium]

Double post. Ooops

[JayOctavarium]

I hope it's more like SoC.

SoC > Erot > Dance > Ytse > Kitchen

[TheGreatPretender]

For me it would be TDOE > SOC > Ytsejam >>>> Hell's Kitchen > Erotomania

[FourthHorseman]

Well if we assume that the instrumental is around 6 minutes or less, it won't be like SoC.  And while TDOE is one of my favorites, DT is definitely "past" that part of their career. I'm expecting something along the lines of Erotomania or Ytse Jam.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well if we assume that the instrumental is around 6 minutes or less, it won't be like SoC.  And while TDOE is one of my favorites, DT is definitely "past" that part of their career.

How so? Personally, I felt like the instrumental breakdown on TMOLS was quite similar to Dance of Eternity. And the instrumental breakdown on Outcry proved that they still enjoy doing fast, crazy technical stuff. So don't dismiss the possibility just yet.

[FourthHorseman]

Well if we assume that the instrumental is around 6 minutes or less, it won't be like SoC.  And while TDOE is one of my favorites, DT is definitely "past" that part of their career.

How so? Personally, I felt like the instrumental breakdown on TMOLS was quite similar to Dance of Eternity. And the instrumental breakdown on Outcry proved that they still enjoy doing fast, crazy technical stuff. So don't dismiss the possibility just yet.

I'll be completely honest, I never listen to TMOLS anymore so I forgot about that. But that's true about Outcry, so we'll see.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Well if we assume that the instrumental is around 6 minutes or less, it won't be like SoC.  And while TDOE is one of my favorites, DT is definitely "past" that part of their career. I'm expecting something along the lines of Erotomania or Ytse Jam.

What "part of their career" are you referring to exactly?

[eviljust]

Well if we assume that the instrumental is around 6 minutes or less, it won't be like SoC.  And while TDOE is one of my favorites, DT is definitely "past" that part of their career.

How so? Personally, I felt like the instrumental breakdown on TMOLS was quite similar to Dance of Eternity. And the instrumental breakdown on Outcry proved that they still enjoy doing fast, crazy technical stuff. So don't dismiss the possibility just yet.

This. I would rely on it, but am also afraid of it. Probably having too much expectations and can't help it.

[SuperTaco]

I hope it's more like Hell's Kitchen.

Kitchen > Ytse > Dance > SoC

I reversed the order and now it is correct. I prefer HK/Ytse because of the production styles, and just the mood of the songs. They carry more impact than TDOE/SOC. Now, I enjoy both of those songs quite well - SoC was one of my first DT tracks - but they are of an entirely different set of moods. HK and Ytse manage to invoke something more special and more epic, to me at least. I would prefer the new instrumental to be more 'emotive', like HK.

The more I lurk/post here, the more I feel like I'm alone on many opinions. I don't register it as a bad thing, I'm just a whole lot different.

[TheGreatPretender]

This. I would rely on it, but am also afraid of it. Probably having too much expectations and can't help it.

I'm definitely not relying on it. But I'm hoping for it, and preparing for NOT it.

[cyberdrummer]

[wolven74]

SoC ranks near the bottom of my list of favorite DT instrumentals. When I first heard it there didn't seem to be any changes in it. The theme just kept repeating itself. Upon further spins I realized that there were changes in the song, but the theme still seemed a little too bland for me.

On the other hand, Erotomania and TDoE have come to define Progressive Instrumental Masterpiece in my musical dictionary.

Falling somewhere in the middle are Overture 1928 and Hell's Kitchen.

[aprilethereal]

Why does no one mention Overture 1928? That one is my favourite DT instrumental by far

EDIT: "Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post." Fuck this

[eviljust]

I'm not sure I'll be able to get some sleep tonite.

[TheGreatPretender]

Just a typo, or misinformation, I'm sure. The 23rd part, I mean.

[Zook]

I believe that's the European release date.

[cyberdrummer]

Just a typo, or misinformation, I'm sure. The 23rd part, I mean.

Not sure if serious?

[atmyne]

I hope it's more like Hell's Kitchen.

Kitchen > Ytse > Dance > SoC

I reversed the order and now it is correct. I prefer HK/Ytse because of the production styles, and just the mood of the songs. They carry more impact than TDOE/SOC. Now, I enjoy both of those songs quite well - SoC was one of my first DT tracks - but they are of an entirely different set of moods. HK and Ytse manage to invoke something more special and more epic, to me at least. I would prefer the new instrumental to be more 'emotive', like HK.

The more I lurk/post here, the more I feel like I'm alone on many opinions. I don't register it as a bad thing, I'm just a whole lot different.

Dude you're not alone, I completely agree with you and that order of instrumentals (I'd put erotomania somewhere in the middle).
It seems to me that alot of people on these forums value duration and complexity over musical integrity (MOST of the time based on how people here tend to rank tracks/albums/instrumentals). Which is why, maybe with Illumination Theory as the exception, people (here) are going to be underwhelmed with the new DT album (assuming it's purported simplicity). At the end of the day, good songwriting speaks for itself. Let's see what The enemy inside has to offer though...

[eviljust]

I believe that's the European release date.

UK release date, for Germany is 20th if I'm not wrong. That depends on the weekly charts though.

[TheGreatPretender]

I believe that's the European release date.

Are you goddamn kidding me? Europe gets THIS album before North America too? 

[cyberdrummer]

I believe that's the European release date.

Are you goddamn kidding me? Europe gets THIS album before North America too? 

Europe always gets albums before NA. That's the way the world works.


I wonder if we'll get a video for The Enemy Inside at some point. I guess they would've done one in time for its release if they were gonna make one at all.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I hope it's more like Hell's Kitchen.

Kitchen > Ytse > Dance > SoC

I reversed the order and now it is correct. I prefer HK/Ytse because of the production styles, and just the mood of the songs. They carry more impact than TDOE/SOC. Now, I enjoy both of those songs quite well - SoC was one of my first DT tracks - but they are of an entirely different set of moods. HK and Ytse manage to invoke something more special and more epic, to me at least. I would prefer the new instrumental to be more 'emotive', like HK.

The more I lurk/post here, the more I feel like I'm alone on many opinions. I don't register it as a bad thing, I'm just a whole lot different.

hey, I've been walking that road since I first got here 

[TheGreatPretender]

Europe always gets albums before NA. That's the way the world works.

What kind of crazy, backwards world do we live in?

[SuperTaco]

Dude you're not alone, I completely agree with you and that order of instrumentals (I'd put erotomania somewhere in the middle).
It seems to me that alot of people on these forums value duration and complexity over musical integrity (MOST of the time based on how people here tend to rank tracks/albums/instrumentals). Which is why, maybe with Illumination Theory as the exception, people (here) are going to be underwhelmed with the new DT album (assuming it's purported simplicity). At the end of the day, good songwriting speaks for itself. Let's see what The enemy inside has to offer though...

Thank you, I feel less alien now. 

To elaborate a bit more on that, I think that a lot of DT fans are musicians themselves, and as musicians we tend to put more weight on the complexity or the difficulty of an arrangement because of the dedication required to actually learn and play this music properly. It feels way more satisfying playing something complex, and it creates a stronger connection between the musician and the music. I understand and accept that quite well, that's just a different kind of connection. My connection is more about how the individual parts create a product, a sound, an emotion. This is how I feel different from many others. Music creates things in me that I don't even have words for. DT's music is the brightest, strongest example of that.

Just one more day until a new journey begins.

[ariich]

Europe always gets albums before NA. That's the way the world works.

What kind of crazy, backwards world do we live in?

That's just how the industries are set up. In most European countries, music is released on Mondays, and in North America it is Tuesdays. I think some European countries are actually Thursdays and Fridays and so tend to get things at the end of the week before!

[TheGreatPretender]

My connection is more about how the individual parts create a product, a sound, an emotion. This is how I feel different from many others.

You make it sound like people who prefer The Dance of Eternity over Hell's Kitchen are unable to be emotionally moved by music.

That's just how the industries are set up. In most European countries, music is released on Mondays, and in North America it is Tuesdays. I think some European countries are actually Thursdays and Fridays and so tend to get things at the end of the week before!

I've never heard of this before. Every interview and press release I've ever read always lists a single release date, and that usually coincides with the North American release.  How come Wikipedia doesn't list when albums were released in different regions?