Majesty Demos...then and now

[erasiel]

Have been listening to the Majesty Demos again from the Official Bootleg, and really enjoying them.

So I got to wondering what became of all these songs and since this information doesn't seem to exist in one place anywhere, I compiled it. Did I miss anything? Any other thoughts on these 6 tracks? I relied on Portnoy's tourography, the always helpful setlist.fm, a few forum posts, and various liner notes to piece this together.

Another Won appears twice on the official bootleg Majesty Demos. First in instrumental form as recorded in 1985 (w/out Moore) and again with the full band and Collins vocals. It was played 15 times in 1986 on the first Majesty performances in NY, and another 44 times in 2005/6 on the Octavarium Tour, as captured on the Score live album.

A Vision was played twice with Collins in 1986 and twice with Dominici live in 1988. The final performance was part of the infamous "Glasser" concert and the song featured an improv jam with guitar and drum solos. The track was redone as a demo with Dominici vocals (Vision '89) for WDADU but didn't make the album, apparently because the label didn't want to pay for more studio time. Available on the WDADU Demos official bootleg. It was never (near as I can tell) played live again.

Your Majesty was played 15 times live in 1986 and was only resurrected just a single time, as the first encore at Paris, Oct 23, 2002 as a tribute to the French fan club of the same name. This performance was released on the companion CD to the first edition (2007) of Lifting Shadows. It also appears in both instrumental and vocal form on the official bootleg Majesty demos.

Two Far was played live 12 times in 1986 and never again. It also appears in both instrumental and vocal versions on the official bootleg Majesty demos.

Vital Star was played live 11 times in 1986 and never again.

March of the Tyrant was played live 13 times in 1986 and never again.

What did I miss y'all?

Ethan

[Elite]

They should bring back Your Majesty.

[wasteland]

Your Majesty @ Paris is available on the companion CD to the first edition (2007) of Lifting Shadows. Other than that there's a GDT release of the night, but as with all GDT release it's not to be shared electronically. Well, in truth neither is any rip of the Lifting Shadows CD, I believe

[erasiel]

Thanks wasteland- updated my post!

[Madman Shepherd]

Excellent info!  I have always wondered about A Vision.  Always kinda dug that song. 

[jammindude]

A Vision was always my personal favorite...sad to see that it was the least represented in a live setting. I haven't listened to the '89 version since it came out. I'm going to dig that out this weekend.

[Sketchy]

I have to admit, one of my favourite moments of the demos is the keys solo on Two Far. I love that organ/synth sound.

[Setlist Scotty]

Nice job Ethan. I agree with those who say that A Vision is a great track - I'd love to see the band resurrect that one at some point.

March of the Tyrant was played live 13 times in 1986 and never again.

What did I miss y'all?

You did miss one detail. While not played in it's entirety after 1986, the instrumental part of March of the Tyrant was tacked on to the end of Only a Matter of Time for the last leg of the Music in Progress tour (fall of 1993 in Europe). Definitely a highlight from that part of the tour! Would love to also see them bring that back at some point.

[jdprsaga]

everytime i listen to the majesty demos (and wdadu for that matter) I think the bass volume in the mix is so freaking awesome and bad ass, and I think, how can they miss that?

[wasteland]

Nice job Ethan. I agree with those who say that A Vision is a great track - I'd love to see the band resurrect that one at some point.

March of the Tyrant was played live 13 times in 1986 and never again.

What did I miss y'all?

You did miss one detail. While not played in it's entirety after 1986, the instrumental part of March of the Tyrant was tacked on to the end of Only a Matter of Time for the last leg of the Music in Progress tour (fall of 1993 in Europe). Definitely a highlight from that part of the tour! Would love to also see them bring that back at some point.

Hey, look what I found! The only video recorded performance of the OATM/Tyrant collaboration! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IMHZwJYKg

[Setlist Scotty]

Hey, look what I found! The only video recorded performance of the OATM/Tyrant collaboration! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IMHZwJYKg

Nice find!

[hefdaddy42]

While I completely understand the importance and significance of the Majesty Demos, I just can't listen to them.  Any of them.  The songwriting is so amateurish that I can't take the songs seriously.

I view them as the growing pains that the band had to go through to become what they are now.  But I completely understand why none of the band members like playing those songs.

[Ħ]

I listened to the Majesty Demos twice for novelty. They're terrible. No need to consider them as part of DT's discography. Heck, I don't even consider WDADU as part of their repetoire.

Dream Theater began at Images and Words.

[erasiel]

I listened to the Majesty Demos twice for novelty. They're terrible. No need to consider them as part of DT's discography. Heck, I don't even consider WDADU as part of their repetoire.

Well, the Majesty Demos are certainly not part of DT's discography and no one would consider them such. That said, many would agree they are growers and need more than two cursory listens. Heck, two listens are not enough to judge most of DT's output...

Also, the live versions of the two tracks with LaBrie vocals in particular are a huge improvement and i suppose that "canonizes" those songs as official Dream Theater material. Whether you like it or not. 

[ZirconBlue]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

[erasiel]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

Well, here's Your Majesty from the one time they did in Paris. (audio only, unfortunately). But it does include Portnoy's intro explaining the history of the song and why they are doing it.

*snip*

Not nearly as clean as Another Won from Score, but listenable. Not to mention the performance isn't as tight since it was a one-off, versus Another Won which they did 44 times on that tour.

[hefdaddy42]

Heck, two listens are not enough to judge most of DT's output...

Yes, but most of DT's output has a lot more depth and substance than these songs.

Also, the live versions of the two tracks with LaBrie vocals in particular are a huge improvement and i suppose that "canonizes" those songs as official Dream Theater material. Whether you like it or not. 

Not really.

[Setlist Scotty]

I listened to the Majesty Demos twice for novelty. They're terrible. No need to consider them as part of DT's discography. Heck, I don't even consider WDADU as part of their repetoire.

Dream Theater began at Images and Words.

While I agree that the quality of the Majesty demos pales in comparison to their later output, I disagree with the notion that they or especially WDaDU are not part of their repetoire. That's like saying Rush's first album doesn't exist, nor any of the songs they wrote previously. Those early songs may not be where a band is at now, but it doesn't mean that those songs/albums should be discounted, especially given the fact that those songs were written by the same guys that wrote the later albums that you do feel are canon. Had the situation been like Queensryche (where the vocalist brought in outside writers because he didn't like the music his bandmates were submitting), you'd have a point. But to dismiss the Majesty demos or WDaDU just because you don't like them strikes me as impertinent.

[bosk1]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

Well, here's Your Majesty from the one time they did in Paris. (audio only, unfortunately). But it does include Portnoy's intro explaining the history of the song and why they are doing it.

*snip*

Not nearly as clean as Another Won from Score, but listenable. Not to mention the performance isn't as tight since it was a one-off, versus Another Won which they did 44 times on that tour.

You cannot post links to material that is officially released by the band.  Please do not do so again.

[emtee]

Love the early material. Listening to some of it on Score with modern sound is amazing.

What strikes me watching those early vids is just how much things have changed since then. A young hungry band who were all
pretty close with each other.

[Mosh]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

Well, here's Your Majesty from the one time they did in Paris. (audio only, unfortunately). But it does include Portnoy's intro explaining the history of the song and why they are doing it.

*snip*

Not nearly as clean as Another Won from Score, but listenable. Not to mention the performance isn't as tight since it was a one-off, versus Another Won which they did 44 times on that tour.

You cannot post links to material that is officially released by the band.  Please do not do so again.

When did they release that? Is there an official bootleg with that whole concert somewhere? Or a fanclub release?

[lyfeternl]

I listened to the Majesty Demos twice for novelty. They're terrible. No need to consider them as part of DT's discography. Heck, I don't even consider WDADU as part of their repetoire.

Dream Theater began at Images and Words.

My EXACT subconscious frame of thought when thinking of the DT discography!

I have to force myself to remember WDADU

[hefdaddy42]

But to dismiss the Majesty demos or WDaDU just because you don't like them strikes me as impertinent.

Nah.

[sfam2112]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

Well, here's Your Majesty from the one time they did in Paris. (audio only, unfortunately). But it does include Portnoy's intro explaining the history of the song and why they are doing it.

*snip*

Not nearly as clean as Another Won from Score, but listenable. Not to mention the performance isn't as tight since it was a one-off, versus Another Won which they did 44 times on that tour.

You cannot post links to material that is officially released by the band.  Please do not do so again.

When did they release that? Is there an official bootleg with that whole concert somewhere? Or a fanclub release?

It was released on the CD that came with the "Images and Words" edition of the Lifting Shadows book.

[erasiel]

I love "Another Won" as presented on Score.  I wish we could get recordings of that caliber for the other 5 songs.

Well, here's Your Majesty from the one time they did in Paris. (audio only, unfortunately). But it does include Portnoy's intro explaining the history of the song and why they are doing it.

*snip*

Not nearly as clean as Another Won from Score, but listenable. Not to mention the performance isn't as tight since it was a one-off, versus Another Won which they did 44 times on that tour.

You cannot post links to material that is officially released by the band.  Please do not do so again.

When did they release that? Is there an official bootleg with that whole concert somewhere? Or a fanclub release?

It was released on the CD that came with the "Images and Words" edition of the Lifting Shadows book.

Yeah, the release of that Paris track was mentioned earlier in the thread and I revised my initial post to mention it. My bad for posting the link...I guess I thought since the Lifting Shadows CD is no longer available it was OK, but clearly not.

[Setlist Scotty]

But to dismiss the Majesty demos or WDaDU just because you don't like them strikes me as impertinent.

Nah.

Uh, yeah. It's just as ridiculous as if Blob were to claim that Awake wasn't a DT album, or half of this forum who doesn't like Systematic Chaos were to say that it isn't a DT album.

[BlobVanDam]

But to dismiss the Majesty demos or WDaDU just because you don't like them strikes me as impertinent.

Nah.

Uh, yeah. It's just as ridiculous as if Blob were to claim that Awake wasn't a DT album, or half of this forum who doesn't like Systematic Chaos were to say that it isn't a DT album.

Completely different. You're diverting.
The Majesty demos weren't even released on a real album, were written before they were even Dream Theater, and not even the same lineup as any official album. I've only heard them once or twice, because to me it's not Dream Theater, and it's very reasonable to dismiss those entirely. They didn't even make WDADU.
WDADU is a different story, since it was Dream Theater, and was released on a studio album. But the fact it was released on a tiny nothing label, wasn't promoted, didn't sell at the time, sounds worse than a demo tape, and isn't the same singer/lineup as future releases means I can see good reason to dismiss that in the spirit of basically a "demo" too. Sure, it is indisputably technically the first DT album, but many would like to forget that it was.

While I completely understand the importance and significance of the Majesty Demos, I just can't listen to them.  Any of them.  The songwriting is so amateurish that I can't take the songs seriously.

I view them as the growing pains that the band had to go through to become what they are now.  But I completely understand why none of the band members like playing those songs.

That. I feel pretty much the same about WDADU, but to a lesser degree of course. Amateurish songwriting that I can't take seriously, although definitely a progression, and some brief flashes of the band they would become on IaW.

[RaiseTheKnife]

What about Cry For Freedom?  It was played live with Collins' lyrics.

Should Afterlife with Collins lyrics also be added to Ethan's list?  Or maybe not because the live performances occured after the demo -- although it is a Majesty song...

One day someone should decifer the original lyrics to Afterlife (and Cry For Freedom).

[hefdaddy42]

What Blob said.


*shudders*

[erasiel]

What about Cry For Freedom?  It was played live with Collins' lyrics.

Should Afterlife with Collins lyrics also be added to Ethan's list?  Or maybe not because the live performances occured after the demo -- although it is a Majesty song...

One day someone should decifer the original lyrics to Afterlife (and Cry For Freedom).

I would love to see those lyrics too!

As for adding to the list, my intention with the thread was to try to catalog whatever became of the original Majesty Demos,  the tape recorded in 1986 with the above six tracks.

However, yeah there are a lot of other Majesty songs out there, some of which are also on the official Bootleg CD (those are from other earlier demo tape, the "Berklee Demos.") Then there are yet other Majesty songs that were only played live. I found a list of all songs from the Majesty era on this FAQ:

https://gabbo.net/dt/faq/

A Change of Seasons
A Late Summer Rain
A Vision
Afterlife
Another Won
Creep With Tonality %
Cry for Freedom
Death of Spock, The
Don't Look Past Me
Gates of Babylon @
Golden Slumbers *
Grab That Feel $
Killing Hand, The
March of the Tyrant
Metropolis
Mission: Impossible
O Holy Night
Resurrection of Ernie
Schizophrenia
To Live Forever
Too Far
Vital Star
Ytse Jam, The
Your Majesty
Wanted: Dead or Alive (sort of a joke)
* Also called The Golden Weight
$ Later renamed Take The Time
% Later renamed Learning to Live
@ An old Rainbow song

[Cool Chris]

I never listen to these, I am not even sure I have them, and never thought I would care to see any of them playe dlive now.

But then Another Won sounded pretty cool on Score... so now I don't know. But it still never pops in to my head "Hey, I should listen to the Majesty Demos..."

[The Letter M]

This thread prompted me to listen to The Majesty Demos last night on my iPod. It's still pretty good stuff, and considering they were all college-aged at the time they wrote all of this, it's pretty impressive! They had some great chops, and I love the early melodic-bass-lead sound they emulated from Rush. This stuff and WDADU really let Myung shine and it's a shame his parts have been buried in the mix and partnered with Rudess' left hand over the years. I wish there was more of a return to this style of writing, at least for the bass parts.

Anyways, it's not a bad 'album', and for being home-made demos, it's pretty good considering it was done in 1985! It's an important and interesting look into the birth of the band that would become Dream Theater, and you hear a lot of things that would later be common for the band, like Petrucci's style, Portnoy's drumming, etc. You hear little things that make you go "Ooooh, that's totally them" and for me, it puts a smile on my face to hear these guys at such a young age making music this good and complex in parts. I would only dream to have been in a band like this at their age!

-Marc.

[ytserush]

Nice job Ethan. I agree with those who say that A Vision is a great track - I'd love to see the band resurrect that one at some point.

March of the Tyrant was played live 13 times in 1986 and never again.

What did I miss y'all?

You did miss one detail. While not played in it's entirety after 1986, the instrumental part of March of the Tyrant was tacked on to the end of Only a Matter of Time for the last leg of the Music in Progress tour (fall of 1993 in Europe). Definitely a highlight from that part of the tour! Would love to also see them bring that back at some point.

Hey, look what I found! The only video recorded performance of the OATM/Tyrant collaboration! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IMHZwJYKg

I completely forgot about this! Thanks Scotty!

I think I may even have this whole video in my basement.

For what it's worth, I'll use John Petrucci's characterization of kindergarten paintings on a refrigerator for the Majesty demos...even though he was describing When Dream And Day Unite when he made the reference.

I connect a lot more with When Dream and Day Unite than the demos, but I don't discount their importance.

[Setlist Scotty]

But to dismiss the Majesty demos or WDaDU just because you don't like them strikes me as impertinent.

Nah.

Uh, yeah. It's just as ridiculous as if Blob were to claim that Awake wasn't a DT album, or half of this forum who doesn't like Systematic Chaos were to say that it isn't a DT album.

Completely different. You're diverting.
The Majesty demos weren't even released on a real album, were written before they were even Dream Theater, and not even the same lineup as any official album. I've only heard them once or twice, because to me it's not Dream Theater, and it's very reasonable to dismiss those entirely. They didn't even make WDADU.

Actually, I think you're the one diverting. You can discount them all you want, but while it's true that the Majesty demos were not a "real album", they *were* released to the public when they had those cassettes made and sold.

That they were under the name Majesty as opposed to Dream Theater is simply because of a name change. Had there not been a band named Majesty, it's quite possible the band we know and love as DT would still be known as Majesty today. It was not as if some of the guys left Majesty, formed another band called Dream Theater and then the other guys joined up with them.

And saying that it's not the same lineup is incorrect reasoning. If that was the case, then the same could be said for when any of the other lineup changes happened. The fact is, the core group that made DT what it was, was on those recordings, just as they have been on subsequent releases.

Add to that the fact that two of those songs were played by later lineups (3, if you include the instrumental half of March of the Tyrant) and even on the 20th anniversary T-shirt and poster, the Majesty songs were listed alongside all the ones on their albums, signifying that they are part of their discography. So while the band may admittedly decide not to play those songs any longer (or at least on super rare occasions), that does not mean they are not part of their back catalog.

WDADU is a different story, since it was Dream Theater, and was released on a studio album. But the fact it was released on a tiny nothing label, wasn't promoted, didn't sell at the time, sounds worse than a demo tape, and isn't the same singer/lineup as future releases means I can see good reason to dismiss that in the spirit of basically a "demo" too. Sure, it is indisputably technically the first DT album, but many would like to forget that it was.

Blob, just because you and some others would like to forget that WDaDU exists doesn't mean anything, any more than someone wishing something else didn't exist - as I said before, I doubt you'd argue that Awake wasn't a DT album just because you don't like it. Just because the sound quality isn't up to standards, just because Charlie is the vocalist on it, just because it came out on Mechanic doesn't mean anything - some could say the same thing about any of their albums (Images and Words has the triggered snare and sounds dated, Jordan's not on the earlier albums, Portnoy's not on the latest albums, etc.) The fact of the matter is, WDaDU is their first official album. So dismissing it as if it didn't exist is ridiculous.

And let's not forget that the current lineup featured 2 different songs from it on their last tour. So it must mean something to the guys to include those songs in the setlist, or else they wouldn't have bothered.

[MetropolisWatches]

Does anyone else absolutely love "Particle E. Motion"?